Upcoming Move - Questions Ethernet Cable, Modem/Router, Ethernet Run & Electrical

For long ethernet runs you may want to consider optical.  I replaced my 50 foot ethernet run with these components and it was a very noticeable difference.

Got the equipment on Amazon.  Two converters and a multimode cable, under $100.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BYP5CZY?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P6Z7GZY?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_2&th=1

I have a Bluesound Node feeding a Denafrips Terminator II DAC.

 

@upshift  This is a great suggestion to look into optical.  I briefly thought this may be an option but was not sure where to start..  Many thanks... I will check into it further. 

Modems/routers are noisy and best kept away from audio systems so I’d side with option 1, and a 5m Ethernet cable isn’t all that long.  I’d also consider having two outlets/dedicated lines installed because it won’t cost much more than one and will give you flexibility if you want to say plug digital components into one and analog into the other.  Outlets matter, and you might consider this Maestro outlet that compared favorably to more expensive units — I also attached a comparison review that’s a little dated but still useful and interesting I think.

https://www.cruzefirstaudio.com/maestro

https://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0114/audiophile_ac_outlets.htm

Just some thoughts FWIW, and best of luck with the new room. 

I have a 30’ run of Blue Jean Cat6a with zero issues. 
My suggestion is to go with a separate modem router setup. 
This router allows you to set priorities. I set the first priority to streaming. 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DGZZJ996?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BT6N46DH?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

And absolutely positively run a minimum of two dedicated lines for the system.
Should be priority 1.

Easier done now rather than later  

 

@soix ​​​​@hbarrel - This really does help me think the issue through and appreciate the links.  I had not thought about two dedicated lines - one for digital and one for analog but now would be the time to do this!  

 

Photos would be super helpful. If you created a virtual system you could put photos of you current system and destination... that would really help us help you. 

Optical is good choice but it will require conversions. Placing modem and router close to system is best, but then this requires disabling wifi on router so no rfi contamination of closely situated components, disabling wifi brings on more complications with a division of network. So if you want simple you're going to run long LAN cable. Some believe simple is best, some believe otherwise. 

In my previous room I replaced my 30’ BJC Ethernet cable with the low cost optical setup and had very good results and a noticeable improvement. If you go with an Ethernet run, I recommend the Smoothlan device as buffer against line noise. 

FWIW I have my router far away (35 feet) from my rig, I run a long cat 8 to an LHY switch located near the Rig on the top shelf. That router is the main router, there is another upstairs linked to it. From the switch there is a .5 M of DH labs Cat 8 to my LHY EFI located. near the switch. From the EFI I have a Revelation Audio Labs RJ 45 to Aurender N200. This works great for me, maybe you can do something the same?

The Audiogon crew has been a great help with all the suggestions.  I was able to touch base with the electrician first thing this morning and now have him running two dedicated lines vs one.  Great timing with the suggestions by @soix & @hbarrel 

@fthompson251 - your setup seems ideal.  I am familiar with LHY and see their EFI is a new addition to their line.  I will look into this.  @ghdprentice - I will get some pics next time I travel up to the new home. 

@norust 12awg rather than 14awg.  But you probably already knew that. 

It’s often true that your wifi router and cable modem’s ideal location are not in the same place.  Thank goodness Ethernet cable for the most part does not care.  Put your wifi router in the best place for transmission.  That’s usually centrally located in the home.  

Check out my excessively paranoid intro to network surge protection while you are at it. :) 

If your home is pre-wired for Ethernet, and every room has a jack sometimes it’s also true that your Wifi router is far from the place your home Ethernet cables all come to.  Thank goodness for switches and access points.  

I’d say try hard to keep it convenient above all, don’t worry about optimizing Ethernet for audio.  Streamer buffers will take care of most of your issues. Wifi on the other hand is fussier. 

I’ve heard good things about Wifi 7.  That along with multi-bandf ( I think stgarting with wifi 6) really have reduced congestion and improved reliability.  If you want to go abolutely nuts you can get the top of the line Asus with an SFP port and run fiber to your audio room and no one will ever try to convince you to spend a lot in Ethernet cables again. :) 

That router is too much for me, but given the general prices for Wifi 7 it’s no longer worth it to buy a Wifi 6 router I think.  

Oh, and before I forget, free Wifi analyzers are available for every platform I know of.  I suggest you use one to gauge the best place to put your router.  They are really priceless.   PC, Mac, iPhone, etc.  there is a free version for all of them.  You want good signal strength and lack of other signals. 

@norust said:

  I was able to touch base with the electrician first thing this morning and now have him running two dedicated lines vs one. 

FWIW, there is a very good chance the "electrician"(s) that install the electrical service, branch circuit wiring and trim out electrical devices and light fixtures in your new home are Residential Wireman. There is also a very good chance he/she does not have any experience with branch circuit wiring for feeding audio equipment.  Therefore you the audiophile/home owner may want to give them some  specifications, you want them to follow. (What you suggest must meet AHJ bare minimum electrical safety standards/requirements)

You will first have to give the list of specs, requirements, you want the residential electrician(s) to follow, to the Electrical Contractor, they work for. He may require more money for what you are requesting, wanting. Good chance he will... Time, labor, and material used, is money...

You are not trying to tell the Residential Wireman electrician how to do his job. Electrical Specs are the norm in commercial and Industrial buildings/facilities. Same for expensive custom built houses.     

Unless there are specific specs given before the Electrical Contractor gives the builder his price, the Electrical Contractor uses bare minimum  electrical safety code to bid the electrical job. Therein the AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) bare minimum standards/requirements for the area the house is being built. Usually the electrical installations is no more, or,  no less than AHJ code. The AHJ may adopt all of the NEC or may delete parts of the NEC and add their own requirements. The AHJ, has the final say...

Example of one bare minimum NEC requirement. NEC requires an individual 20 amp GFCI branch circuit to feed receptacle outlets installed in a bathroom(s), one on each side, within 3ft, of the basin above the countertop. This meets bare minimum NEC code. 

Lets say your home has four bathrooms. Unless you specify otherwise per NEC code all four bathrooms receptacle outlets above the basin countertop can be fed by a single 20 amp individual branch circuit.  (Want to guess how the wiring will done? The cheapest way. One 20amp branch circuit will fed all four bathrooms.)

 Do you have any daughters living at home? What are the chances of the wife and one or more daughters using hair dryers at the same time in the morning, getting ready for school and or work? 

..

You can spec what type of branch circuit wiring you would like to have installed and follow best practices for the installation of the branch circuit wiring, that will feed your audio equipment. You can exceed bare minimum AHJ requirements. It can not be less than AHJ requirements.

Example, You don’t want TR, (Tamper Resistant), duplex receptacle wall outlets installed on the two dedicated branch circuits. You want these 20A Furutech audiophile duplex receptacles you bought installed instead. The Furutech outlets are not TR outlets. I am not sure if they are even Listed. The electrician will tell you he/she can not install them. They do not meet code. The Electrical Inspector will Red Flag the outlets. 

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Recognized best practices for branch circuits used to feed audio equipment.

1)  Both 120V 20A branch circuits should be fed from 20 amp breakers that are connected to the same Leg, Line, in the Electrical Panel. Both from Line 1 or both from Line 2. If the residential electrician questions that and says he/she normally would balance the two 120V circuits, one on L1 and the other on L2, tell him all the 120V loads of you audio equipment added together is probably less than 8 amps continuous load. Digital equipment 120V loads are squat...

2)  120V Dedicated branch circuit for audio equipment.

A raceway or cable that only has,

One Hot conductor.

One neutral conductor.

One equipment grounding conductor.

A true dedicated 120V branch circuit does share a raceway or cable with other branch circuit wiring.  (Again induced voltage problems.)

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3)  Type of branch circuit wiring used. NM sheathed cable , (Romex trade name), is probably the most commonly used. (Unless the AHJ in your area doesn’t allow it. Some don’t.)

Two wire, with ground, Romex is good if best practices are followed when installing it.

1) Twisting of the cable should be kept to a minimum. Twisting can change the Lay, position, of the Equipment Grounding Conductor, EGC, in relationship to the Hot and Neutral current carrying conductors. Result, an induced voltage onto the EGC. 

2) The two Romex cables should not be ran parallel against, along, side one another. They should be separated by at least 8" or more from one another after getting out of the electrical panel, as soon as practicable, all the way to where the wall outlet boxes are installed. The two Romex cable should NOT be ran through a single bored hole through wall studs or joists. Problem here, induced voltages from the hot and neutral current carrying conductors from one Romex cable on to the other Romex cable. It kind of defeats the purpose for installing dedicated branch circuits, (to decouple the power supplies of digital equipment from analog equipment),  if the two Romex dedicated branch circuit cables are installed running parallel against one another.

3) Here is the tough one. Avoid running the two dedicated branch circuits in close proximity of branch circuits that are used to feed noisy harmonics loads. Examples, LED lighting, lighting dimmers, kitchen branch circuits, (refrigerator, microwave, ect, and any other such branch circuit wiring connected to such loads. All can induce noise on the Romex wiring. The Object of the Dedicated branch circuits to be clean as possible from EMI and harmonic distortion loads noise being induced onto them, from other parallel running branch circuit wiring in very close proximity.

An Overview of Audio System Grounding & Interfacing

 Read page 16, and pages 31 thru 36.

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Integrating Electronic Equipment and Power

Read pages 11,12,13. 

Page 25.

 Furthermore, if a signal cable is connecting two pieces of
ungrounded equipment powered from opposite phases, the leakage current flowing in it will increase (causing more noise) as compared
to powering the equipment from the same phase

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4) Wire size of the conductors used. Per NEC code the minimum wire size for a 20 amp branch circuit wiring is #12awg copper. That’s bare minimum. You can go bigger if you want.  If the length of the wiring is less than 50Ft and you are not using a big wattage power amplifier, and like listening to your music loud then #12awg copper would probably be ok... 

Over 50ft (distance measured to, up, down, and around), you will find a lot of audiophiles move up to #10awg solid copper wire. A little extra cost now, mostly material, very little labor increase, if any, but it should be a one time install. It eliminates the what If I had installed #10awg wire at a later date in time. (Breaker at the electrical panel is still an AFCI 20A. The breaker determines the ampere rating  of the circuit.)

FWIW, unless the branch circuit is really short I would use #10awg solid copper wire.

5)  Type of branch circuit wiring used to feed audio equipment,

I recommend 10/2 MC (Metal Clad) solid copper wire, aluminum armored cable. Follow the same best practices for installation as for Romex above. (Though, worth noting, there is less of a chance of induced voltage from one cable to the other.) 

*** NOT AC / BX armored cable. ***

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/new-electrical-wiring-specifications

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FWIW...

NEC, Article 90

Quote:

90.1 Purpose

(A) Practical Safeguarding. The purpose of this Code is the practical safeguarding of persons and property from hazards arising from the use of electricity. This Code is not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for untrained persons.

(B) Adequacy. 

(A) Covered. This Code contains provisions that are considered necessary for safety. Compliance therewith and proper maintenance result in an installation that is essentially free from hazard but not necessary efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion of electrical use.   

"but not necessary efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion of electrical use."   

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 NEC and AHJ could care less if you have ground loop hum or how an audio system sounds. Is the electrical installation and wiring safe? Code is satisfied.

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@jea48 - appreciate the in depth info on the electrical and wiring.  My contractor is into high end audio and I will definitely share the info you passed along.  

@erik_squires - I am always glad when you chime in with your wisdom.  I was thinking I needed to catch up on my knowledge of surge protection and you must have read my mind.  

I think I am now ready to move forward with both my move and the work go get ready for a new home for the audio gear!  Thanks to everyone and I will let you know how it all works out.  

Here’s a thread I started a long time ago but thought I’d copy it here in case you might pick up something useful from it.  It was stressed to me to run the lines on the same leg and to not share a neutral bus, which my electrician did not know to do.  Anyway, FWIW…

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/dedicated-line-help

my 02 cents

1) dedicated power, if possible 2 direct lines from circuit breaker to wall

2) dedicated Ethernet for router to music rack where your streamer will reside