VAC preamps - too expensive?

op is trolling

no energy for the trolls please

miller, didn't you know, the arrogance of the maker of hifi gear, or its owner, enters through the ht bypass jack of any unit

that is why arrogant audiophiles stick with 2 channel only... 😁😁😁😁

Why is VAC arrogant? Every company has to define its target customer base and cater to its needs. I'm sure, like every other company, they perform market analysis and identify the segments they want to target. If they see a sizable market for HT users, I'm sure they will offer extra features. Quite clearly, their core customer base could care less about HT. Trying to please everyone all the time is a recipe for bankruptcy on steroids.

I, for one, hope that 2-channel designs stay as far as possible from HT. 

For some reason I find it oddly comforting to know even an inanimate object like a preamp can be arrogant. Good to know.

VAC is arrogant and overpriced.  HT users matter.  

I suspect a tiny fraction of a % of VAC's customers use their preamps in a HT setting.  VAC is 2-channel territory all the way.  

@jumia, VAC is definitely not for you. The remote doesn’t have an on/off button, doesn’t have a mute on/off button, doesn’t have an input change button or an HT bypass button. That’s up to 4 times you have to get up to change things for HT. Good thing my Apple Watch 6 keeps track of the number of steps and stands I do just to use the VAC. Use of the VAC puts my Hydrow to shame.

Ok, thanks.
but remote not doing inputs has gotta be annoying.  
Not many use this in home theatre system my guess.

@kmmd obviously meant that he runs all digital sources through his VAC. It really wasn’t a confusing comment unless you choose to label it as such.

Vac aint digital. Very confusing comment.

vac dont have input on remote. How awful? How du u deal with this?

I run all digital for now, and the VAC does an incredible job with it. 
Good decisions @jumia.

I’ve decided to buy a dog and send my kid to college.  

Seems not a good fit if only using it for streaming.  Vinyl a better fit.

@jumia
I am not good to answer that; vinyl is the only source in my main system! But, I can't see how it wouldn't help streaming too. It's such a beautiful sounding line stage now that it's settled in my system (and tube-rolled to Amperex Holland 7308!), perhaps even exceeding how strongly I feel about their phono stages. 

People who want to feel like they're hearing perfect measurements & specs need not apply here - it's simply a gorgeous sounding component. 

So is streaming via VAC worthwhile? Seems vinyl is very popular, albeit using a VAC phonostage. So if solely streaming does using a VAC make sense?

@mulveling I'm totally onboard with SUTs, although I can't use them with with my Phi Beta because it came with dual MC, no MM. This was the personal preamp of Jay Kaufman of Audio Revelation, and he ordered it that way. No matter, really, because I have the Allnic H3000 in the same system and it has two MM inputs (plus two MC). My rig has 5 tonerarms active, which is absurd but big fun, and I use several stand-alone SUT (including Bob's) sometimes. Allnic has its own built-in SUTs, too, which compete well to my ears with my stand-alones. So for me, without the opportunity to directly compare separate SUTs in the VAC, whatever minor failings Lundahls might present are lost in the excellence of its overall presentation and sound. And I just adore the unlimited loading options. It's weird how tiny changes in resistor values can have an audible impact.

@wrm57
The phono stages are what kept me coming back to VAC. The 6-tube MM stage is ridiculously good. The Master’s version (and the Ren SE) is tweaked and has exotic parts, but any version of their 6-tube phono is solid 24K gold for our vinyl. Even the scaled-down 3-tube phono is shockingly good. Incidentally I have a friend who’s looking to pickup a Phi Beta w/ phono, apparently they are superb.

I have a lot of cartridges in my collection, and it’s always refreshing to hear how the VAC phono lets almost any ~$2K MC cartridge transcend to the next level. I mean, it’s still best with my best cartridge (Blue Lace Diamond), but it’s crazy how much it boosts the Benzes/Shelters/Ortofons. There’s no "diminishing returns" with their phono stages - they’re well worth every penny. I putzed around with Herron / Rogue Ares / etc for a bit, and the VAC phonos cost more (even as add-ons) but they really truly BLOW AWAY those other phono stages. And now the Master line stage perfectly matches their phono’s beauty.

I would suggest experimentation with external SUTs (being very careful in choice of interconnects, which must be short and low capacitance), if occasion allows - I’m actually not a huge fan of the Lundahl amorphous core MC SUTs, and I have a SUT collection that I find preferable to them (matched per cartridge). I can see that some would consider the crystalline/detailed sound of the Lundahls to match perfectly with the warm/lush VAC MM, but then some like me like to double down on that warm/lushness and just wallow in its delights lol. EAR MC-3 or MC-4 and and Bob’s Devices Sky SUTs are warm and lush in the midrange but also very dynamic and exciting.

I have a sneaking suspicion the Alps RK27 potentiometer was my main complaint about the Renaissance V preamp - they just don’t sound very good - which of course is fully rectified in the Master with its badass custom-motorized RK50.

If you have a high-end turntable, the VAC onboard phonos are a work of art and well worth it.

I completely agree. My Phi Beta has a very similar phono circuit, maybe even the same one, if executed, I’d imagine, at a somewhat lower level than the Master. It has 6 x 12AX7 with Lundahls. Mine is 2 x LOMC, and I had Brent upgrade the transformer on one to the Statement version, along with installing screw terminals for both so I can slide in nude Vishays of any value for unlimited loading options. It is superb. I might even prefer this phono stage to my Allnic H3000, which is no slouch.

Did you buy it??



jumia OP188 postsWell, seems its a nice preamp worth owning.

however, i called today and wanted to get a sales quote on Master and to my horror they increased price by $3k a few weeks ago,  same item.   shameon me for waiting.  Now its at $25k and was also told it may take 5 mnths to receive.  

The Master’s retail without phono was $27 / 28K, so is it now $30K MSRP? I mean, I knew inflation was coming so I went on a buying spree this spring, including my Master. I think it took maybe 10 weeks max from order to delivery in early May...

If you have a high-end turntable, the VAC onboard phonos are a work of art and well worth it. The only reason I didn’t add one to my Master is because I already had their Renaissance SE phono, which is the same circuit & parts. But the Master’s phono is a real masterpiece, with all hand P2P wiring (the loaner I had for a while had it).

They are hand built to order.  I didn't have such a long wait, though.  No shame for waiting, just bad luck is all.  In my estimate, still worth it.

Well, seems its a nice preamp worth owning.

however, i called today and wanted to get a sales quote on Master and to my horror they increased price by $3k a few weeks ago,  same item.   shameon me for waiting.  Now its at $25k and was also told it may take 5 mnths to receive.  

I have had the VAC Master with phono pre for about 3 weeks now. Holy Moly!!  To me it is worth every penny, and then some.  The sound is almost palpable and with texture.  I cannot use if for background music while I do something else anymore, because inevitably I end up in the listening chair intoxicated with the new sounds from albums I have had forever.The lack of inputs on the remote is not a problem for me because I mostly listen to vinyl and occasionally a cd.  I have to get up to load the disc or place the lp anyhow.  I would never ever believed that any preamp could make such a huge improvement.  Just get it!!

Yet they ventured into ht. So anyone use it for ht?

ht users want an exquisite tube preamp that has input changing capability on a remote.  Vac almost got there.

Dropping gems like "absurd" and "they profit more", it sounds like you are just here to complain about not being in the target market of VAC, rather than seriously considering a VAC preamp. Have you even heard one before? VAC specifically made a decision years ago to start catering more to ultra high-end purist 2ch enthusiasts, rather than compete with the deluge of cheaper / budget Chinese-made tube amps. Yes that left some customers behind with the new lines. But they still service their old products, going back many years now, as much as possible. 

There used to be a user here mdavid0 or something who would drop controversial titles like this just to stir it up.

Absurd. They did extra wiring for a special ht bypass button on front.

they can do it with no sq impact.  
No one is asking for input on remote.

they profit more.  
I would pay extra for a working input button on remote.

@jumia I'm sure there is a Denon amp with a feature-packed remote that will more than meet your needs at a fraction of the cost of a VAC.  I'm so glad that VAC didn't needlessly place additional wiring and circuitry into my amp that could only degrade (not enhance) sound quality.  Criticizing VAC for a lack of robust features on it's remote is like criticizing haiku for its brevity.

The VAC preamp lineup is not "clever" marketing trying to trick people into spending more. It’s true high-end gear for extreme enthusiasts who love the VAC sound and are beyond their phase of continually churning through $2K - 10K models on audiogon, doing the inevitable give-and-take sidesteps with each trade.

The Sig IIa SE is the result of a long evolution of their previous flagship preamp; the Master is a trickle-down cost reduced version of the Statement minus its over-the-top cosmetic perfection. The cost savings of the Sig IIa SE vs Master is more significant when you add in the 6-tube phono stage to each unit (28K vs. 40K), which is a beyond excellent stage - VAC’s tube MM phono sounds particularly amazing (add your choice of SUT for MC or use its built-in Lundahls), so as full function preamps their sound is hard to match or beat at any price.

The fact that the Signature preamp still lives in "IIa SE" form (first the "II" then "a" then "SE" upgrades) also gives past Signature customers an upgrade path.

I only use one source on my Master - vinyl. I have no use for the HT bypass; in fact that once got accidentally engaged and it took me an hour to figure out why there was no sound.

So the lack of imput functionality on VAC remote is not a concern to those using it as part of ht system.

so for the next 20 yrs plus, assuming vac will be a long term possession, i have to get up and go to vac to change sources.

Guess i just want it all

Nope no problem at all. The expense will be there for long cable runs whether they’re XLR or speaker.

Using a Cinema / HT bypass button or knob allows you to use your Marantz AVR’s volume control for all channels and not try to level match the volume of your mains set by the VAC to the volume of your center and surrounds of an AVR.

Kmmd, so whats your point? U seem to,have a problem with my comment.

its a side room on opposite side of wall. Quite nice.
Even if the vac box was visible its still super annoying remote lacks input capability. They go to trouble of doing a bypass special button which seems kinda pointless as input selector is sufficient. 

but then what do i know  just a dumb guy willing to shell out $25k for an electronics box.

No @jumia you cannot change inputs on the VAC remote. It has 3 buttons (mute, volume up/down) which does not have an input button. Also, the HT bypass is not changed by the input selector. There is a “Cinema” knob on the upper right corner of the preamp which you turn to select HT bypass. It works very well for my Theta Casablanca IVa with D3 Xtreme DAC’s.

It’s fascinating that you would keep the VAC in a separate room from your HT. That must be one long pair of interconnects or speaker cables that you intend to use. A VAC would also be quite a jump from your Schiit Freya+, and you may have to budget wisely for those cables of yours.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/tube-preamp-enhancement-of-ht-processor-sound

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/what-do-2500-speaker-cables-sound-like

Inputs of vac not controlled by remote.  Kinda annoying.  Can this be corrected??

may have to look elsewhere.  Tough to have this in ht.  Family would not like manually changing inputs as unit would be in a separate area/room.  This is a huge issue.

Funny someone said no one upgrades from VAC to Anything except VAC :-) wish that was true.

I moved from VAC to Atma-Sphere. I actually do very much like VAC Gear cant really fault it much.

Many companies have their own proprietary circuitry. Nothing new here! 

jumia:VAC pricing is not a marketing ploy. It is what goes into the chassis that sets it apart from a myriad of other high-end products, plus the proprietary circuitry. No one upgrades from VAC to...anything - except VAC!

Ken

Or you could get the MP-3 Fully Optioned with the Caddock Volume. 

@noromance 
I upgraded from a MP-3 to an MP-1.
Major difference.
If you can afford it, go for a MP-1.

I am late to the party, but have owned a VAC CLA1 MKII Dual Mono Pre Amp for many years. I am the second owner and other than Tubes, it has been in use and sounding fantastic for many years. It now resides in System 2. I believe it was around $4500 in the 90s so Relative to some of today's prices somewhat. I would love to drop the cash for a full VAC system, but I also want to retire :)

Service from VAC is also great. I called to ask questions about re-tubing and Kevin answered the phone and gave me close to a half hour of his time.

If you can afford it, and you like the newer looks, you really can't go wrong owning it.

I listened to a VAC preamp at a B&M store locally over a decade ago and loved the sound. It left me wanting to own one some day. Sure enough I ended up buying my Signature Mk IIa SE several years ago and never looked back. Yes the Master is a step up, and I’m sure that I’ll move up the chain at some point.


Also don’t forget to get a pair of nice 6922’s. I bought two pairs of Telefunken’s both cryogenic and non, and they’re worth every penny. Amperex’s are very good too.

Iv owned VAC Pre-amps for 6 years, enjoyed it very much never thought il ever upgrade to another pre-amp.

They can be had for cheap on the secondhand market, but once i heard a Fully Loaded Atma-Sphere MP-1 Pre-amp i sold off my VAC and never looked back.

VACs make some good stuff. If you can not afford new buy second hand.

For me the Atma-Sphere MP-1 felt like the room was filled with music rather then just projecting outside from the speaker. It felt effortless, transparent, smooth, more alive with energy.

It's very rewarding to be a VAC customer.  I started with a used, original Avatar integrated that developed a problem with the on/off knob.  I sent it to VAC, who provided a concise explanation of a past vendor issue, but then Brent took a personal interest in making my used piece sound as good as possible before returning it.

It means something when the president of VAC, Kevin, literally stands beside his designs, which often win best of show.  If you're a small company, building some of the best equipment that is reliable, elegant, provides long-term pride of ownership, and superb support, you've earned the right to charge a premium.

@mglik Always wanted to hear an MP-1 or MP-3 in my rig. On paper, a V-Capped Atma-Sphere looks like all you'd need.

I have an Atma-Sphere MP-1 preamp with built in phono stage.
I thought that maybe VAC was the competition but think I see that, like everyone, when you get into the upper end $25K++ units, they all are just line stages with no built in phono stage.
I love my Atma tube pre that dedicates 8 of its 18 tubes to the phono stage. And it’s great to not hanve to have a separate phono stage and additional quality IC.

If you have heard their preamps, they are worth it if you have the budget.  Truly special units that deliver an image that is jaw dropping.  I have a customer who jokingly says he is going to have his casket fitted to ensure their is space for his preamp.  

There are many preamps that are at the levels that VAC competes.  Soulution, Boulder, Constellation, AVM, ARC, etc....  Lots.  None are quite VAC.  They have a sound that is unique and extremely engaging.  The other are fabulous and different, in a good or bad way depending on your preference.  

I am a dealer but have no affiliation with VAC.  I am just a fan.  

The great thing about VAC is that they take a Formula One approach to product development.  No holds barred on the Statement preamp and then allowing much of the technology to drop down into the Renaissance MKV - which is what I own.  I picked mine up a few years ago used and less than 6 months old for $5,500.  I consider it great value for the money and wouldn't dream of swapping it out.

Well I do agree the fewer tubes the better.

I’ve had the sp16 for a number of years. It’s been pretty easy overall on the tubes but with any tube gear you have to be ready when a tube starts to go. 3 tubes in pre-amp and 3 in phono stage.  There is one primary slot for each where you must have very high performance tubes for best performance.   Other 4 are fairly forgiving.

Yes the most common comparable companies are Audio Research and Conrad Johnson. I believe all are excellent brands. While I have auditioned all and all respected, I have all ARC components.

I have a couple quite longstanding audiophile friends who feel the opposite, that ARC is superior to VAC for performance, value and engineering. Both are definitely top shelf brands with very very high prices but both my friends swear by ARC and say their experiences with VAC are mixed.  These are certainly very successful brands of tube equipment, and each has their strong followings, so I guess the responses here not surprising.

VAC is king forget ARC not as good.