As a long time 3A Signature owner who is listening to Treo CT for the past two months. The resolution, smoothness of texture and dynamic drive of the Treos put them in another league entirely from the 3A Sigs. However, I have two 2wq subwoofers along with the Treo CT so I can't relate to the less than satisfying bass response. If you are listening mostly to hard rock type music, absent the subs. I can see where they would be more enjoyable for you. I have said many times on this forum, for as amazing as the Treo CT is, the 3A Sig. is a great value and in your case, has the several Hz at the bottom end that you need. Enjoy your 3A Signatures!
Remember one thing about Vandersteen Audio. Richard never comes out with a new design that is more expensive that does not deliver the musical goods commensurate with its price point! I have so much faith in that, that I bought my Treo CT unseen and unheard. The only surprise for me is that they are so more highly resolved and present such a sophisticated sound. Every time I leave my listening room a have a big smile on my face.
As for you, I hope you leave your listening sessions smiling as well.
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Well put as always Hifiman. If you are looking to just pressurize a room, then yes, the 3a is your speaker. I have always said that. All anyone seems to be saying is the 3a is a better speaker because it moves more air, but that's not giving the Treo's their due. Just saying you can't have it both ways. I'm glad that folks love their 3a's. They should as it's a great speaker. I'd own one if I didn't have the Treo's. The 3A Sig has a 8 inch and 10 inch woofer and subwoofer. The Treo has a 6.5 woofer and a 8 inch subwoofer. When it comes to shear power, not quality the old racing adage applies: "there is no substitute for cubic inches". One would have to add a 2Wq to surpass the Model 3 in it ability to move air. The Treo CT outsells the Model 3 by 8 to 1, so the market speakers with their priorities. One more note, the two speakers load the room differently so that can make a big difference. The Treo CT is designed to be used within 1 to 3 feet of the rear wall and the Model 3 is designed to be used 3 to 6 feet into the room. Put the Treo into the room 3 or 4 feet and the bass will lean out.
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The Treo has better mids, and the CT undoubtedly has better treble. That’s giving them their due. This discussion is about bass, so hifimans "well put" comments are outside the parameters of this discussion, which is about the unaided bass of the Treo run full range. My priority for a music system is musical involvement. Accurate or not, the Sigs never boot me out of a boogie mood, dropping the ball so severely that I think I’m listening to the wimpy Treo. That’s right. The Treo is Wimpy. The saying is "there’s no replacement for displacement". It holds true more than ever for rock, at any volume. If the Treo is selling 8 to 1 then there’s either a lot of subs being sold or a lot of small chamber, small jazz and acoustical going on. Treos are great speakers for that. Be happy and go with it. Or get subs. Or Quatros. Just don’t run Treos full range and expect small driver miracles. It ain’t gonna happen. Rockers be warned!
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Yes, for Rock, you want that pressuring bass and often times the poorly recorded stuff sounds better when it's not as revealed. I agree with you on that. Always have. I personally don't see why something is outside of a discussion, but thats' fine. Again, I'm not putting down the 3's at all. Your personal feeling is that if something doesn't pressurize a room as much as another speaker that has larger displacement, that it's whimsy...I completely disagree and that we will respectfully disagree on. It's all good. We all listen differently. I get plenty of reinforcement in my set up and I like hearing individual notes etc.... I was just listening to rock this morning and it had plenty of boogie and drive.
As for selling 8-1, those are folks who still love rock I can promise you that. There are tons of us driving them without subs and loving them and being able to boogie. Just set them up properly and feed them a great signal and most are fine.
I speak with a lot of Treo owners all the time. Most of us aren't running our systems full blast anymore. I can play my system at very loud levels and there is tons of drive. I'm a former drummer and know full well what it's like to pressurize a room. Like I have and will say, the 3 goes lower and will give you more quantity, but sometimes even for rock, many of us love quality even more.
Again, I'm not trying to fight you on this. I'm really not. If we were having a beer and talking about this, I think we'd probably agree with each other in the end. It's the same trade off debate, quality or quantity. There are more rockers out here than you think who are getting plenty of quantity with quality and are happy they have. Again, like anything, much of it is still in the set up and using the room to reinforce bass. Will I move up in the line? Yes, I will and I knew it when I purchases my Treo's last year. That was and still is my plan. Do many get Treo's and add a woofer? Yes, some do, but not many. At least Richard makes various speakers that allow us to all enjoy anything we listen to and we can easily move up as wanted to get what we want out of our speakers. To me, this whole discussion just shows why we love our Vandersteen speakers. If the are wimpy to you, then those are your words and that's all good. Strong mid 30's to me isn't wimpy, but that's our big difference I think. If the price was the same, would you own Treo's with subs set up properly or stay with the 3's? |
hifimans response was directed to me personally in response to my observations of the Treos unaided bass. He extolled the virtues of the mids and treble, stating that he had no experience with the Treos run full range, therefor no opinion on the bass. I guess he wanted to say something positive in response, it just didn't apply to the particular vein the thread was in at the time - outside the parameters of the moment, certainly not outside the parameters of the thread.
I would like to hear from the "tons of us" that think they boogie on rock, sans subs. They are noticeably absent from the thread. Everyone has an opinion and I invite them to express it. If they stick to describing what they hear, good or bad, about the Treos or the Sigs then fine. If their product evaluation takes a turn and the owners become the target, I take issue with that. When I read that owners opinions are dismissed because they're used to inferior sound, or their equipment doesn't allow them to evaluate the product properly, or a musician hears things regular mortals can't, or sight unseen that it's the fault of the set-up - well you get the gist. The reason I insisted this thread be about the speakers and not those other things is because when I researched before starting this thread all the threads ended up the same. You jump in, Johnny jumps in, the set-up is blamed and the thread is monopolized and dies. Only the tiniest bits of fact unrelated to set-up were available about the Treo from real users. I'm not looking for a fight either, but you're now attempting to monopolize yet another thread and if history is any indication, you won't give up until you sugar coat and white wash anything that could be construed as a negative about a Vandersteen product. I'll fight you on it. The public deserves a decent thread with real information. I've fought for it, here it is.
Would I buy the Treo with subs? If I could fit the subs in the same room with my wife (she's a feisty 105 lbs.) I would certainly entertain the notion. As stated, I like the Treo for polite music. It just doesn't get down and boogie - for me and for others who actually have spoken up here on their own behalf. Caveat Emptor. |
I went from 3 a with a 200 WPC Mac amp to an Ayre VX-R driving 5 A. I liked the 3 a better for rock. They were set up right and believe me they ROCK....the rest of the line is pretty polite above 100 HZ..and I would say that about my 7 mk 2.
now..for low bass, resolution etc the 5 a win hands down. But as others have said, I believe in Richard..
There is a really nice pair of Quatros Fs here..maybe try those...
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i should add that I have very wides tastes so rock does not define what I want. it counts but it does not dominate my decisions.
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Any one who wants can post and should. I'm not monopolizing anything. Not sure if Johnny is posting or not as I haven't gone back to read. Just living in the moment.
You don't think the Treo's can rock or boogie or whatever and I certainly feel they do as do many others I speak with. Didn't know I had to have everyone I speak with about audio posting to prove what I say isn't a lie. As for your comments about me dismissing your thoughts and feelings, nothing is further from the truth. I have posted that I understand what you are saying. I said that the 3 does go deeper (I've posted that in other threads about them that you haven't read or at least posted on on other boards. i love the 3's for their price, but the 8-1 purchases of the TReo over the 3's comes directly from Richard. To me, that's folks who are choosing them over the 3's and many of us do listen to a lot of rock, but we would rather have an overall better speaker even if it doesn't have the displacement and or the room pressurization of the 3. That's the reason they cost more and Richard has engineered them to be much better. If you feel the 3 is a better speaker for you, that's cool and I'm honestly happy for you. I really am, but 8-1 would win out over some posters on a board (yes, me included). Again, those are the facts. I would venture to say that many of us who ended up with Treo's or Quatro's etc... have listened to the speakers one below and chosen to spend a bit more, because it fit's OUR system and personal tastes.
Many threads I've read on all the boards meander and go all over the place. I can promise you that I'm not the only one who takes things that way. I have basically spoken about the difference in the two speakers and haven't been talking about other speakers or electronics. As for the set up part that you take umbrage with, that was directly from Richard. I'm sorry that upset you, but for any speaker it's important to set them up correctly. Like I said, mine are about 3 feet from the rear wall I believe and they sound great on all music. That's not trying to start a fight and it's not white washing a thing. Honestly I have never said anything negative about the 3's and I haven't taken any swipes at you. If you feel I have, then I'm truly sorry. Not my intent ever.
When you read print instead of hearing voice inflection and reading non verbals, you don't always get the other person's thoughts fully. I love the 3's and feel they are a great value. The true value statements in the line are the 3's and the Quatro's to me. |
By monopolize I meant continuously and insistently undermining any and all opinions that portray the Vandersteen in any but the most glorious light. I say the Treo is wimpy, because it is in my eyes. I don't say things about the ability of Treo owners to properly evaluate a speaker, whether it be a fault of their equipment or what they might be used to hearing, or suggest that they are out of their league and dismiss them outright. Sound familiar? Unfounded undermining of credibility just to bolster your own. It has no rightful place in this thread or any other. So don't wear that halo too proudly.
My observation (not accusation) that out of the ton of owners you know that think the Treo rocks, and all of the 8 -1 new owners of the Treo, you are the only one claiming such here on a 10,000 view thread. That speaks louder than 8 - 1 statistics, super Vandersteen design or not. There is one person on this thread that thinks the Treo rocks. One. One relentless person. Would it hurt your pride so much to agree that the Treo would be a better rocker if it pushed more air?
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Wluke,guys
Its real simple,Vandersteens latest efforts have been geared to work well with friendlier domestic positioning ,sometimes 7 to 14 inches out from the rooms front wall.
In a medium to large rooms (with a closer to wall position) the Treos offer a very well balanced design and high visual acceptance.
I don't doubt your comparisons outcome for a second and i know you can hear.
Had you listened to the Treo in this near wall position its power response
improves immensely along with smoother in room response add a ballsier solid state design and i think you would of discovered its magic.
That being said there is no excuse for cubic inches and the 3A Sig's
10 inch and 8 inch do a super job for Rock and roll for which a Treo would need a 2WQ to move more bass.
If you are ever in Verona NJ drop in.
Cheers JohnnyR.
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Thanks for the input Johnny. I love my Vandersteens - it seems like we all do. They're a great value and tick so many boxes for the money. I'm not sure that I'll ever be in Verona, NJ but if I ever am (you never know) I will definitely stop by.
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Wlutke, I have said many times that you can't understand where someone is coming from just by the writer word. I have said that we will respectfully disagree on the Treo being able to rock. I've always said the 3a's move more air and goes lower, but to ME I've said that doesn't mean it rocks better so no, this isn't pride, it's my opinion. You make accusations towards me that I am undermining any and all opinions of the Vandersteens that aren't my opinion. Ummm, ok. Whatever you want to think, that's fine.
I have not said that anyone can't evaluate their speakers or other's speakers at all. I have just said that the Treo is a more evolved speaker and it better be for the price difference. That comes directly from the person who invented the speaker as well as others in this thread who have heard the speaker. The fact that you and some others like the 3a's better doesn't bother me as you think it does. As I've stated, I honestly am happy for you and others.
Just because folks don't post, doesn't mean they aren't there. That goes for any thread on any type of board. Sports boards, audio, MS support boards etc... I'm on a lot of these boards and it's actually a minority that post in most cases. I don't know the numbers here. As for sales, those are real folks who made the decision to purchase one over the other at an 8-1 clip. Does that mean we are better? Not in the least, but many of us listen to rock and love it. Do I want the Treo to move more air? Sure, but I also can move plenty for my room by turning up the volume. I don't listen as loudly as many of you do I guess, but be honest, there isn't just one person who feels the way that I do, but that doesn't matter either. Audio is so personal and we all listen differently and like different things.
I hope that I haven't really upset you in this thread, as your written word comes off that way. The real take away is that we both love Vandersteens and even if one of us didn't, that would be cool too. I have plenty of friends who own Wilsons and I really don't. I never have and I've never understood why folks are so crazy about them. We always have great discussions about audio and sound. We respect each other and I understand where he's coming from and he gets where I come from. Spirited debates and they are fun, but we will never agree as we listen differently. As I've said, if we were at Johnny's or a bar over a beer and having this conversation, it wouldn't play out the way it has in this thread. I also don't think you'd dislike me after it either, but if you did, that would be fine too. It's all good that we love our systems and you can ask Johnny who knows me very well as to others on the board, I'm not an elitist by any means and I'm also not a jerk....well most of the time. :)
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And now, back to our regularly scheduled program...
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wlutke- I agree with you, I like my 3A Sig's but after reading what hifiman wrote I will look into the Treo's and Quatros. My other thought was if the sound of those don't tickle my fancy then I would look into the original 5's. I'm thinking it would be keeping with the original Vandersteen sound but give me more of the lower end my 22' X 33' room deserves. By original Vandersteen sound I'm talking about the number speakers not the worded speakers.
Right now I'm working on multiple subs (currently have 3 each 2Wq's) similar to the Swarm set-up just using Vandersteen subs. After that will move up from there, where ever up is from there.
I also need to get my system updated as hifiman made me realize I haven't been keeping it updated.
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@ig316b I just looked at your virtual system. You have a very well thought-out rig with high quality gear. Seeing your system, if you do decide to move to the Treo CT, with Three! 2wq in your expansive space, you will be able to realize the high level of sophisticated sound that your gear is capable of. Again...no slam whatsoever on the 3A Sigs. it's just that once you hear what the more advanced drivers and crossover of the Treo CT deliver, you will be joyous at hearing the rest of your quality system for the first time.
All the best!
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It's also good to see folks using the Vandersteen woofers with the Vandy speakers. They are designed to work together. Personally, I'd get the Treo or Treo CT's and use the woofers you have. You will move a lot of air and have better sound. The CT's are the way to go if you can afford them. They would sound better than the original 5's. Keep us posted.
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ig316b -
I'm with you. I like the Treo but sadly no subs allowed in my room.
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Wlutke, if you can find a pair of used Quatro's I think you'd be in heaven for your Rock. Even the other ones move a ton of air. I personally only like the look of the wood versions, but I've heard the sock Quatro's set up with highest of end CJ with all the tweeks and top cabling and was blown away. I've also heard them with NAD separates and an Ayre Codex DAC with basic Audioquest cable and it sounded incredible.
To me, that's hard for most speakers to pull off. You made a salient point to me on your moving air issue. I'm totally on board after rereading your posts etc... I never thought we were that far off and I think I'm much closer to what you have posted about the movement of air deep down. Some, like you, really need that in order to get 'moved' (pun intended). I'm not quite like that as I need my music to give me everything else. Hey, the Treo's go very low and move a bit of air when set up properly. They are very satisfying to many and that's why the Quatro is out or those top subs he sells. I want the Quatro for myself due to the tunable bass, but deep down (no pun), I want more air movement on the bass, but I hate most subs as I need tuneful bass that is articulate and homogenous with the main speakers. I hear coherency in speakers more so than many do and that's what drives me nuts about so many manufacture's who make and market high end speakers. So many are not coherent. Richard nails it and always has. My Proacs were the same way years ago. The newest Paradigm Ref speakers I got to hear last month on pre release were also pretty amazing, but they cost 7 or 8k more than the 5CT's and are not nearly as good.
Folks can set their price range and figure out what's most important to them and see if they can fit it in. I still feel that out of all the Vandersteen speakers ever made, that the Quatro is THE sweet spot in the line for price/performance. JMHO |
Ok guys, I'm no pro or scientist on the laws of physics, but I think we all pretty much agree that multiple pairs of large bass drivers will move significantly more air than small bass drivers. I believe much of what we hear in punchy rock/pop bass doesn't really go that low in frequency. Much of this type of bass is in the 40 to 80Hz range. A low "E" note on an electric bass guitar is approx. 42Hz. That's not extremely low in frequency, but heavily amped into a bank of large bass speakers will shake the rafters at a rock concert. Look at the drummer's kick drum. Most times you will see a microphone inside said kick drum. The heavily amped "thud" of that drum is probably in the 50Hz range even though it feels strong enough to loosen the wax in your ears! It's all about perception. A Speaker like the Treo, properly placed inside say, a medium sized room will give you bass tones down in the low 30Hz range with natural, un-amplified instruments having the "politeness" that Wlutke describes. Simply put it just doesn't move the air in the mid bass that gives rock the slam and boogie that Wlutke likes even though the Treo is quite capable of going quite low in frequency. He is willing to give up some of that resolution for the impact and slam the 3A Sigs give him. I understand this because when I got into this hobby back in the early 70's, strong punchy bass on rock/pop is what attracted me. Another "one box" speaker solution for Wlutke might be Legacy. They use multiple 10" to 15" bass drivers in a single cabinet. They also have outstanding resolution with the kind of air moving capabilities you crave. I have owned several pairs of them over 20+ years before I bought Vandersteen. Once again, and always, this is just my humble opinion.
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"Simply put it just doesn't move the air in the mid bass that gives rock the slam and boogie that Wlutke likes even though the Treo is quite capable of going quite low in frequency. He is willing to give up some of that resolution for the impact and slam the 3A Sigs give him."
That's exactly it. Thank you mr_m. I will upgrade when I can afford to have it all. Those Quatros are singing a sirens song. |
A final follow up. I've replaced the 3A's with a year old pair of perfect and beautiful rosewood lacquered Acoustic Zen Crescendo MKII's for half price (!). Not a fair comparison but they destroy the 3A's and steamroller the Treos. They've got that warm musical sound similar to Vandersteen so it was an easy transition. |
I am sincerely happy, wlutke, that you found what you were looking for! Congrats!!!! |
Congrats Wulke, but we all hear differently. I auditioned the Zen's and found they lacked coherency for ME. I also know of a few guys who didn't like the Zen's nearly as much as the Steen's. The fact that you love them is awesome. Neither of us is right or wrong and that's the beauty of audio. We all get what we love. I trust my ears and you trust your's. That makes it all good.
To make statements like 'steamroll' and 'destroy' just makes no sense to me when comparing speakers. I guess these words also mean different things to each of us. Enjoy your Zen's as I love my Quatro's and Bob loves my former Treo's. I think he chose the Treo's over the Zen's too, but I can't remember fully. I know it was someone I was talking to when selling the Treo's to upgrade to Quatro's. Oh well....it's all good in audio |
ctsooner -
The Treo and 3A Sig do not compare on any level with the Crescendo 2, price or performance wise. "Destroy" and "steamroller" were not meant in a harsh way given the cost difference and "In another league", as over used as it is, I feel has lost its impact and only hints at the difference. Funny you find the Zens are not coherent. Reviews rave about exceptional coherency and, in fact, music just flows in the room without aberration. Different room, different gear, different ears. I could have settled for Quatros but I found it difficult to get past having to plug my speakers into the wall, add a high pass filter with an option of one (1) brand wire pigtail and equalization that requires the speaker never be moved again without Vandertoning. That's just me, not a put down on the Quatros. I'm sure they're amazing for the money. BTW congratulations on your purchase! |
You have already made it clear that you will give up resolution vs air moved in the room. That's cool and I know many who do this and most don't even notice it when listening to mostly rock.
I realize the Treo is not for you. Not enough air moved. As for reviews, they are nice, but again, I'll trust my own ears.
All I said was that your statements of 'do not compare' and the rest just lose you any credibility in your response. None of us can make statements like that as it's audio and personal. When I said the Zen's weren't coherent, I said this: I auditioned the Zen's and found they lacked coherency for ME. Did you notice I said for ME.
As for the Quatro's being a semi active speaker, I love it. Nothing beats being able to tune the bass to the room and placing the speaker in the best place to do all the great things it does like disappear and play music in a point source sort of way. I don't worry about the crossover part either as mine is built directly into my integrated amp. Easy for some companies to do, like Ayre. Plenty of great choices depending on what you like to listen to.
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Your unending and depthless devotion to Vandersteen is legendary. There is no comparison between the Treo and 3A Sig vs the Crescendo. Talk about a credibility gap, yours is delusional. Enjoy your precious.
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Devoted to great products. I'm anything but the only one wlutke.
You are so silly with saying making blanket statements and such strong ones. That's just your opinion and you really shouldn't be calling posters delusional. That's just wrong and rude. I haven't called you any names at all. Just saying that your statements IRT any audio is just not correct. I'm honestly happy when I hear folks loving their gear. That's awesome and for that I'm happy for you.
You have already said that you listen to mostly rock and that you have to have a speaker that will move a ton of air. That says all I need to know about where you are coming from, so I'm glad that you got a speaker that moves a ton of air in your room.
I don't understand your last sentence though. If you are telling me to enjoy my precious Quatro's, I surely am. Did for hours this afternoon with the dogs. Hard for me to get away from the system as it's breaking in so nicely. Thanks guy. |
The Crescendo MKII crushes the 3A Sig and the Treo. I guess that's a blanket in your world. That's silly.
You attempted to assasinate my credibility, I see your Vandersteen obsession so overboard as to be delusional. Rude in, rude out.
"Precious" is from Lord of the Rings.
Here's what I wrote 9/5/2016 about you and Vandersteen threads:
" continuously and insistently undermining any and all opinions that portray the Vandersteen in any but the most glorious light"..."Unfounded undermining of credibility just to bolster your own."
Prophetic.
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Sincerely glad it's working for you. |
Ditto for your Quatros. Now let's both go play our stereos and have fun. |
That's all I have ever wanted wlutke. As I've said, it's audio and it's all fun. Thanks. |
I could settle this with a third opinion. I will go to a place in Az. that carries Acoustic Zen and listen to the Crescendo's myself! Will report back to you guys when I get a chance to do this.....Should be interesting. |
Doubt it would be "settled", just another opinion. Tend to agree with wlutke on this. After Vandy 2ce Sig II and 1Ci, I've gone back to Tannoy. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Regards....
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Don't take what I said too seriously, just trying to lighten up a somewhat tense thread. Goes to show how "passionate" we all can be about our hobby.... |
carmenc. As you said, Different strokes for different folks. I don't like the sound of Tannoy. |
and the wheel turns........lmao.........
I was never a 'critical' listener like so many are. In audio, there are three camps for the most part:
1. audiophile who's into the gear first and foremost.
2. Those who are into the music and want it to sound as good as it can in their room. If it's not the MOST revealing, it's fine as long as they get the emotion out of it. The music counts more than the products producing it.
3. Audiophile/music guy who loves both.
I realize that nearly 100% of the folks who will post on boards will say they are in the third camp, but we all aren't. I meet so many folks at shops and in the hobby as many of you do. I think that the majority of guys are gear heads. Into the gear more than the music. Yes, we all love the music, but so many folks don't care about music as much as the gear producing it. I've had this conversation with so many folks within the industry and it dates back to when I got involved in the early early 70's (69 actually).
I fully admit to being into the gear more than the music. I love auditioning gear and talking gear with folks. Since day one I was always the go to guy IRT audio. I started helping friends, family and eventually strangers. It's always been a fun hobby for me to get to know people and help them with systems. I am a former drummer (MS completely took that part away 11 years ago) and love my rock. I also, because of audio, love all music now. I loved jazz too, even as a kid, but once I started buying the 180 gram pressings or any type of music, I loved it, but I get just as excited bout a new speaker or amp or DAC or cord or something that brings me closer to what I perceive as 'being in the hall, but not on stage with the performer".
This thread is the perfect place to bring this out as it celebrates everyone's tastes and reasons for it. It's all personal. Some actually love a piece due to it's physical size and or looks. Some like a speaker and system because it moves a ton of air in their room and that's how they listen. In the end, some care about a soundstage and others don't. Some want timber over anything else. I personally can't listen to a system that hot on top. Some of you don't care about hot on top as long as it sounds like you have gobs of bass or the most neutral vocal or ..............
There are some really great speakers mentioned in this thread along and it was a Vandersteen thread to start with. We all have our likes and dislikes and in the end all that really does matter is that we love what we have and love the pursuit of what we want to have. Happy listening. |
Well said ctsooner! Take care and enjoy your Vandy Quatros. You've earned it!
Best......
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Enjoy the music first !!!!
glad everybody is loving what they have
i do want to clarify a point
moving your speakers does not require you to rerun Vandertones -even tho that is pretty easy - insert cd, and record the 11 band spl and compare to the baseline spl when you initially set the system up.
iF the differences are big you might want to rerun it... or maybe not.
what your ears tell you counts also - don't over equalize or chase perfectly flat with your SPL meter...
of course we could debate having the ability to tune vs just live with whatever the box / room gives ya...
me, I like having an iron but every now and then doing wash and wear...
again
enjoy ghe music !!!
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Great thread everyone....have read it all. I was just introduced to Vandersteen speakers. Fantastic in my opinion. Unfortunately it was the Sevens and Quatros, which I can't afford! But, I could afford the Treos or Treo CT, but haven't as yet heard those. I have a store nearby where I can and will audition in the near future (San Diego).
Question: I have a Line Magnetic 518ia...22Wpc. Would my integrated amp be adequate to drive the Treos? I'm not interested in changing out my amp at this time but loved the sound of the Vandersteens I did hear and I'm sure I would like the Treos after reading this discussion (not a big bass head). Would the Treos even be viable option given my current amp (current speakers are PSB Imagine T2)? I listen mostly to vinyl (Prime and Lyra Delos through Manley Chinook) -- soft to classic rock, jazz mostly.
Thanks for any feedback. |
ekimg The Treos are only 85 db efficiency. I have no knowledge about your particular tube amp but even 22 TUBE watts sound a bit lean for the Treos. Perhaps you could take your amp to the dealer to find out?
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Agree with @hifiman5 ; just for s&g, try out those 22 tube watts with a pair of Vandersteen 1s. You'll be surprised by what you get for ~$1250. |
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hifiman5 -- yes I will have to take my amp in and see how the Treos respond since he does not carry LM gear. Thanks for the suggestion.
cedargrove -- if he has the 1s I'll try those too...thanks. |
Ekimg, go talk to Bruce the owner. I used to buy from him in the 80's when I was in the Navy. Just sold my Stax Lambda's he sold me, lol. Even had the original box and receipt, lol. He's a master at room set up also. Yes, bring in the amp as tubes can push a lot of current at times and that's the important thing along with your room size and listening habits.
The Treo CT's are the way to go IF you can afford them. They are a great value purchase in high end audio and then you can add two Vandersteen subs later on and you have about 90% of the Quatro's, plus you can place the subs in a different spot if needed and dial them in. I know a few who have done this as their upgrade path and been happy overall. Also, keep in mind you can upgrade and have them painted if you want. It's an uncharge, but they will do any color you want, lol. They newest 3 signatures are really great if you love rock as they can move a lot of air. You will listen and hear for yourself. Trust your own ears and not what many of us tell you on the boards and have fun. |
I agree....
Treo's sound thin & harsh to me
even with subs
and I have Thiel speakers that are supposed to be bright
I've listen to all sorts of amplication with them
and all cases; yuck
but;
The Treo CT & sub
That is a different animal
sweet, full very nice
All the changes , just for a " Tweeter"
Give the CT version of Treo or Quattro a listen and see what you think
my opinion
jeff
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Jeff, I think that many feel the Treo is thin, because it won't move as much air as a 3 or some other speakers. What it is, is the entry into a higher resolution speaker. I personally had it move plenty of air in my room and it never sounded thin. I also use an Ayre AX-5/20 and a QX5/20 with a TOP server (best I've heard), lol. I got plenty of deep bass and it was tuneful. Even on electronic music it was plenty deep in my room in my system. I do understand that some feel that they want more air moved, so subs is a great deal as Treo is a full range speaker and the subs work great. |
Ct. You said Treo Ct's with subs gives you about 90% of the Quattro's. I think its more like 94.67892%....... |
IF my memory serves me right Bruce at Stereo Unlimited has PSB also so haul your amp in there for a listen....you could do anice slow A/B
just remember your short term wow brain likes louder and finely etched detail and your longer term brain likes the real thing...
Stay out of the room with the 7's it is a musical black hole....lovers of music..never escape the purity well......
Ha
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Tom, that's kind of funny. I personally love listening to someone's highest end achievement and then listening to the rest of the line in lowering order. Helps me figure out how much trickle down is going on. I find on so many speaker lines, that I may like or love one of them and not the others. Had that conversation with someone yesterday as his are the only speaker in the line he has that I like. He agreed, lol.
Also agree on short term/long term listening. Great detail in never etched., lol.
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To maybe resurrect this old thread, i just acquired a pair of Treo CTs and they are fabulous. I also purchased the Audiokenesis Swarm sub system and they take care of whatever bass “problem” some had with the speakers. I will likely enjoy this combination for a very long time.
The question now is: keep the Quicksilver V4s are get an Ayre or some other top notch solid state amp??? |
