Since I just purchased and received my dream 20K+ speakers – Martin Logan’s Renaissance ESL 15A’s. Let me be one of the first ESL 15A's owners to say – these are one of the BEST sounding speakers in the market place today and should be very well received by consumers and the audio press. They communicate the essence of the music within a three dimensional soundstage with the transparency that allows you to hear detail you have never heard before. The recreation of the “air” around the musicians and the height of the musicians within the soundstage brings the artist into the room. The tonal balance is dead on and the integration of the bass is the best from Martin Logan. The only negative is the size of the bass cabinet – my wife is not happy. The speakers dominate the room compared to my previous speakers, the ML Montis. However she clearly hears the difference in the sound of the Renaissance compared to the Montis – her comment after listening to them was “the Renaissance’s make the music come alive”. My quest ends with the Renaissance.
Enter your text ...What used speaker would you buy with $20,000-$35,000 and why?
I'm closer to the 20,000 part, but if I get stretched i would like to know higher recommendations. Remember, this is on the used market - not retail. I'm even interested if you think I should make a huge jump (say to 50,000), but I want to know what justifies that jump. I'd like the best bang for the buck and even the worse bang for the buck. Are there speaker lines that are totally overlooked that sound wonderful in this price range that I need to be exposed to? I may go higher, but lets start there.
PS Let's just assume the upstream equipment is adequate to drive any recommended speaker. We are not limited by upstream components.
PS Let's just assume the upstream equipment is adequate to drive any recommended speaker. We are not limited by upstream components.
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I'm in the same boat and have been browsing a little bit for the past few months to see what surfaces on the market. I am planning to attend a few shows later this year and pay particular attentions to speakers. Currently some that have peaked my interests are: Magico Q5 or S5; Raidho YG Acoustics Vienna Acoustics Klimmt the Music Tidal Some are based on previous personal experiences at various shows, some are based on rave reviews from Asian Audio Magazine reviews. I am currently using a pair of Verity Parsifal Encores. My music taste is all over the map. Although I primarily listen to Classic Jazz. My biggest desire is probably in the bass region, to be able to "feel the impact of that music" to the bones without sacrificing the details in the upper octaves. On paper, either Q5 and S5 seem to reach the deepest in that regard. But like others said, being able to listen to them in person is the best way to judge. FrankC |
If it were me these are one of the few I would actually consider spending that much on if I could: https://www.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-mbl-101e-mkii-world-class-speaker-extremely-rare-2016-0... Maybe negotiate a deal for these if you have the room and gear otherwise to make it worthwhile. If not used MBL 111e is a good compromise to fit the budget. |
If you decide on planars, you have some great choices. As others have said, you should if possible hear the Sound Lab ESL's. Also the Sanders ESL's, and a new entry--- the ESL with direct drive (no transformer in the speaker) tube amp by Music Reference. MR owner/designer Roger Modjeski designed a similar system for the legendary Beveridge ESL in the 1980's. Factor in a round-trip flight to Berkeley, CA to hear them! If you have the room for the ESLs above, you have to hear (if you haven't already) the big Magneplanars. Many consider the 3.7i the highest value speaker available, and the bigger 20.7 a great one as well. Be forewarned---they require as much amp power (current---tube amps need not apply) as you can afford. A minimum of 200 beefy watts per for a small room, more for a bigger one. If you have a REAL big room, use a pair of Tympani IV's as (sub)woofers for them! |
Some Tetra 606 reason being because I love them http://www.tetraspeakers.com/high_end_speakers_pages/606.aspx |
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Thanks Al, I just couldn't make sense of it. Wonder what happened, lol. Oh well. Buddy of mine is going nuts over his Vandersteen 5 CT's. He said he upgraded his amps and server. Said he's blown away as he made a few other tweeks and the speakers are even better and he loved them before, lol. I do love the line obviously. I also have enjoyed some of the NEW Legacy speakers too. They do some things very similar to Vandy's. I think they can be very hot on top though, but they do so much really well. Very few speakers I love listening to. Some of them are not the last word in definition etc, but they are musical...Kind of like listening to the radio in the car, lol. |
Man! Thanks for all the input! I'm planning on listening to several of the speakers mentioned (Wilson, Vandersteen) and I've had several of the others. It's interesting how upstream components and the room have incredible effects on speakers etc. (as does "taste"). Originally I was trying to find the greatest value at this price point in the used market (given the different depreciation rates of various equipment and the relative stability of performance in the electronics realm vs mechanical). Part of the staying power is of the former is value and part is reputation. I was wondering about secondary manufacturers who were producing nearly the quality of the big boys and faced a radical drop-off in the secondary market rendering these speakers a virtual "steal" given the drivers, cabinets etc. Some speakers hold their value quite well (i.e. B&W, Wilson, Vandersteen) others decline more rapidly (but I think the sound does not decline at the same rate). I was hoping to capitalize on "your alls" experience and find a value speaker that tooks a great hit, but sounds really incredible and it's used price is actually undervalued given it performance. It's similar to a situation I faced with a boat purchase, A few years ago I bought a new runabout for 26,000 and now the same boat new is 45,000. Folks have found out it's a good boat and have bid up the price. I don't want to pay the inflated price! Thanks again folks. Keep suggestions coming! |
Personally I'm very concerned about what direction B&W is going in. They were just acquired by a two year old Silicon Valley tech company this week and it could be a boon for the high end, or it could hurt it as they are the largest and most well known (main stream) speaker company. Room is the most important part of the listening equation. What I love about the Vandersteen Quatro on up is that they have a built in sub woofer/amp system where you can fine tune your speakers from 100hz down to your room. It works and works great. That way you can place your speakers in the best spot to do what you want them to do, or you can put them right up against a wall and still get great sound. I just put a large plant right next to the speakers and I have a quilt on the side walls do I don't get that first reflection. I also have a stack of albums on the rear wall to diffract the sound waves. The Vandersteens use a couple of technologies to eliminate the rear sound wave from the drivers so you don't get smearing of the sound wave from rear reflections that you get in many other speakers. The rear firing tweeter in their 5 and 7 are ONLY there to make some happy with 'ambient' sound. It's not for serious listening at all. He has to sell speakers, so he has the ability to turn it on ONLY if you think you need it. |
The room is crucial. Fortunately I have a really good room (once I resolve an issue with the floor joists - I have to run a beam in order to cut the span in half and stiffen the floor). So I really suppose the question then is independent of room - IOW's assuming an ideal room. I didn't know that about the Vandersteens. |
NAB, I know of a dealer who has a similar problem with floor joints. He put some steel plates under the speakers I believe. The Vandersteen Quatro on up is the best speaker I've ever heard of in their price ranges for dealing with bass. Richard has been doing this for soo long, that he just gets it. There is a reason his speakers are some of the best selling high end speakers of all time. I have many friends who own his speakers and are able to keep them p against the wall or even pull them way out to get an even better sound stage and they never worry about the bass. Where do you live? |
hm1 Yep totally out of my mind. Sometimes I think I'm a vegetable and I'm just looking to waste my green on all things stupid. It's apparent that I'm not nearly as smart as you are and I certainly don't have your experience. Or, it may be that I'm as smart as you and just vastly richer. Take your pick. Oh wait, other possibilities foist themselves upon my thoughts, but I shall shake my head and toss them out as quickly as I did my first exposure to calculus. I seem to remember thinking: "You've got to be out of your mind, I can't believe anyone would think that mathematics could explain acceleration - I just put my foot on that pedal and wow." It's always a joy to correspond with intelligent and seasoned audiophiles. I have been enriched and enlightened by your comment. I'd bet you are regarded as one of the most engaging conversationalists/posters since Beavis. Cheers. |
Why do folks get upset about what other people decide to spend on anything? I never understood that and no I can't afford a pair or Vandersteen 5CT's or higher. No I can't afford that awesome sounding amp he makes to go with them either. That said, I love it when folks can as they get what they paid for and more. Same goes for other brands who's speakers are more than X amount. HM1, I can get thousands of posts to post that you spend way too much on the components you posted about. What if he doesn't like the sound of what you posted? Just because we all love and swear by our own gear (and most of us on here do), that doesn't mean it's right for others. Honestly, I love Nab's response. Way to take the high road Nab. |
If I had to buy used... Sonus Faber Cremona Elipsa or Stradivari with a Dirac Live DSP before my DAC. :-) Main reason is they are stunning, second I love the tweeters they used, not to mention the overall performances. :) I would spend around 2k on room acoustic treatment and the rest of course, I would squander. :) Best, Erik |
What kind of music ? The Big Pure Audio Project speaker with 4 Neo woofers per side, with Voxativ field coil driver is incredible By Any standards. And in the $20k range 95db efficient And you can hear the event well even at low volume . I know of no other speaker that can match what these will do At lower volumes,and can rock the house also.many options And only 1 capacitor you can change yourself outside the box ,being open baffle totally unique being modular. |