Does Zu use multi level marketing?
Regards,
|
Good for you mate........ Awesome |
Well, everything just changed. I will not be getting the Omens. I won the pair of bright green Superflys that Zu raffled off at RMAF.
I'll be picking them up on November 11. I'll be sure to post pictures as soon as I have them set up. They clash with everything I own, but who cares? Free speakers! |
Themadmilkman.. I agree any changes are simple. Even changing the resistor value to reportedly the best sounding tweeter resistors you can buy only costs $16 each......
I like the fact that I've played a part and taken ownership in these speakers too, they sound great due to the few hours work I put into them....... |
I do not think tilting speakers is a kludge.
i have often tilted speakers if I felt that there was something in alignment that was not doing what I wanted with sound. chairs and peoples are at different heights -- why accept the heigt of speaker out of box?
Soul is tilted already -- who says it will be tilted right for you and your room? |
Naggots, your experience has a lot to do with my desire to perhaps experiment with a used pair of Druids. I think I would probably go with the Omen's driver and see how things played out. One of the nice things about Zu's simple designs is that these changes can be made easily without worrying about crossover networks and other things. |
Themadmilkman....This is what I did......I mentioned this earlier.
I have Druid Mk4/08 and live in Oz......due to the cost of posting speakers i decided to mod them.....
I already had Mundorf silver oil caps and Duelund resistors in the Hi pass.
I purchased the Soul drivers from Zu and had some lengthy chats with Sean Via email.
Sean said to replace the 12 ohm resistor in the Hi pass with a 10 ohm Duelund.
He suggested that I paint the insides of the cabinet with Soundpaint or quiet coat...... a water based sound damping compound (same as Soul) I did and it added about 6-8lbs to each Druid.
Sean also suggested gluing a 1" dowel between the FRD and Tweeter and the back of the cabinet to stiffen it.....so I did.
Then he said to cut a Griewe wedge out of open cell foam (Sonnex or Melamine) this wedge is to leave a 3/8" gap all around the opening at the base of the Druid and to taper up to a point in the middle of the tweeter. The wedge is glued to the wire mesh covering the opening
These tweaks are cheap ($180ish).......bearing in mind that I already had the Hi Pass mod.....($150 ish from Partsconnexion) which all Druid owners should have anyway.....
The change is amazing.......the bass is much deeper and tighter......so much so i had to turn my Mini Method subs down. The speakers scale faster and seem more dynamic. The treble is more pronounced but still not bright......the Soul uses the same tweeter and Hi pass albeit without the Duelund brand resistor.
The mids are cleaner but not as warm as before, this may be what you heard between the Soul and Omen, Sean said the Omen uses the Mk4/08 FRD with the new phase plug .....there is more detail.......All in All about 95% of the Soul sound but with the higher and more distinct Druid Box.
These mods could be done to a Druid without changing the FRD........
For me it was fun to do and cheaper than the post for a new pair of Souls......my speakers are unique and sound really good. |
>>...Superfly in the RMAF room to especially in light of the comment they tweeted that it was less than refined and not especially detailed. This doesn't chime with much that's been posted here....<<
I wasn't at RMAF and haven't heard Omen yet. But knowing the driver differences and other details, this isn't difficult to explain. First, hotel rooms are notoriously poor spaces for sonic optimization and don't closely match domestic conditions. Zu has a longstanding history of disappointing show conditions. Search comments on their show appearances for the past five years or so and nearly every public hotel demo results in minor or major eruption of controversy over their sound. Second, the high output driver in Superfly has an especially vivid sound fresh, that can be a little raw and forward until fully broken in. It gets more beautiful with break-in, without losing it's dynamic energy. The driver in Omen is closer to Druid Mk4-08 spec, which ships mellower then Superfly's and opens up with break-in, becoming more vivid and alive. The starting points are different with respect to the sonic attributes of early-stage aging. Most hotel construction tends to aggravate the rawness of the incompletely broken-in Supfly driver while havi somewhat more benign effects on the more Druid-like Omen driver that blossoms with age.
Sean believes the slight cant of Omen's front baffle is sufficient to mitigate the too-low placement of its super tweeter, and suggested to me that the cabinet can be further leaned back a bit by placing the front spikes on shims. By any measure this is a kludge, but Omen isn't intended to be perfect. It's intended to make a properly-packaged Zu FRD based speaker affordable, compact and easy to own. It might be that Omen is disappointing to some people who already own current Zu speakers, as Tone and Essence always were to me, though some who may have favored Druid over Soul or Essence will prefer it. But to the first time buyer coming into the Zu or even hi-eff fold for the first time, it should be appreciated for being the gateway to a complete and more satisfying reorientation of hi-fi priorities and results. Generally, an affordable Zu FRD speaker driven by a great amp at higher cost will yield more convincing music fidelity than a higher-cost conventional speaker driven by mass market amplification.
Phil |
Does Zu have a "network marketing" business model?
Just curious.
Regards,
|
I'd liove to read more about the Superfly in the RMAF room to especially in light of the comment they tweeted that it was less than refined and not especially detailed. This doesn't chime with much that's been posted here.
I think I agree with Phil/Cobra's assertion that the Druid images marginally too high, which is why I'm looking forward (still) to my Superfly as it seems obvious that it's a Druid on steroids with a lower image.
I would imagine that the Omen would present smoother again although, as stated, the tweeter below combined with the low height seems likely to create some distinct issues that you'll either be okay with... or not.
Interesting times. |
Spring: 7 feet is fine for Druid,
Themadmilkman: Yes, speaker height, especially tweeter, is important. I had to put my driuid on 6 inch brick (long story) and my listening chair now gets 6 inch of pillow, otherwise balance is thrown right off.
Do not mention this to other people on this forum to whom it is article of religous faith that Zus do fine just "plopped down".
Would love to hear more about RMAF, and Zu room in particular |
I prefer the sonic signature of the Omen's driver over the Superfly's driver. The Superfly had a few characteristics that I found distracting, but not serious enough to keep me from wanting a pair. I didn't hear those same things in the Omen.
I asked Sean about what the differences between the drivers were. The Superfly's high output driver uses a lighter cone mixed with the largest and most powerful magnet assembly they could make work. Something about these changes doesn't completely agree with my ears.
Now, don't get me wrong. I could still listen to the Superfly every day. I spent hours at RMAF sitting in the Zu room and just enjoying the music. But for my tastes and listening style, the Omen is a better fit.
The biggest downside is the tweeter placement. It's too low and it does pull the entire soundstage down. I sit fairly low and pretty far away from the speakers, so I'm willing to deal with it. It does make me wonder, though, how the Druid would hold up with the Omen's driver and the improved Griewe loading. I am considering purchasing a pair of used Druids and doing those updates myself. We'll see how things look when my tax return rolls in next year.
I also spent good amount of time at RMAF talking to Kristian, Sean and Adam. I think the latter two's decision to put the management of the company into the former's hands was a great idea. Apparently they've brought on new people, reworked the factory space, and Adam and Sean seem more free to work on new products instead of getting caught up in the day-to-day business operations. I couldn't get any of them to open up about what's coming up, but by the sounds of it we should expect a lot more from the company over the next few months. |
Is that based on it being a better 'value' or is it a signature you prefer irrespective of price?
I'm getting used to the Atma=sphere amplifier and it is really an impressive piece. Slightly dry, but I'm going to roll some 6sn7s in and see how it does. I suspect this may be my Superfly keeper. |
For what its worth I was exchanging emails this morning with a friend who was dead set on buying the Omen, but after hearing it and the SF at a Florida Zu party, he is ponying up the extra money for Superfly. Exact opposite for me. I've now had some time with both speakers and I'll be picking up the Omens as soon as I'm able. |
I have used both Druid and now Essence in a 10'x12' room, placing my listening position about 7' from the speakers with good results. Had feared the Essence bass response would overload the room , but it did not. At this distance the speakers seem to have an intimacy and immediacy that has not been matched by any other speaker in my room. Especially nice for late night listening because the Zu speakers are well balanced at low volumes. |
I'm sure this was covered, but I can't read 450 post to find it!! I'm in a room thats 16x30, ceilings are 12-17 foot. However I'm in the loft part so I only sit about 7' from the speakers, with the speakers about 15" from the wall, the wall behind me is 16' away. I've ben wanting to try the Souls and don't know if thats enough room for them to work for me. Any commments? |
The S-30 arrived in good condition, but there were two tube fatalities on the way. My first impressions are a bit mixed. VERY transparent, detailed and super liquid with good control over the speakers. I may need to tweak around a little bit as emotionally its not completely emotionally stirring at the onset--it is two tubes short and being fed from a single ended preamp (don't have balanced) so I guess we'll see how it works out. |
I wonder if had your friend heard the regular Soul as well at the party, whether he would have still spent the extra $$ on the SF or would the Soul have been more than enough.
(although on second thought I think I know the answer to that. Most audiophiles, if it is within the realm of the affordable, once they heard better won't settle for good enough) |
For what its worth I was exchanging emails this morning with a friend who was dead set on buying the Omen, but after hearing it and the SF at a Florida Zu party, he is ponying up the extra money for Superfly.
On a side note: I've got the S-30 sitting in my car now and can't wait to leave the office! |
If you look out the Zu site under the Loudspeaker heading and scroll down to the Soul (not the Superfly) you will see the differences listed along with the sonic improvements noted for the Superfly. Can't say if the sonic improvements are proportional to the price difference (especially when considering the sale price of the Soul ), however I would personally opt for the Superfly. |
Can anyone out there quantify the sonic differences between the Superfly and the regular Soul (I would prefer the opinion of someone that heard them both using the same electronics side by side). Are the sonic improvements proportional to the price differential? Thank you in advance. |
An S-30 here really caught my attention too. Incredible amps. And always nice to see Ralph from Atamasphere on these boards. Had the pleasure of meeting him in the Twin Cities. I hope to have an S-30 someday. |
Roscoeiii,
I saw your message on AC and was going to respond after tonights events (just got out of Roger Waters doing "The Wall" at Nassau Collisium--amazing).
I haven't actually settled on anything yet. I've been talking quite a bit with Phil behind the scenes about potential upgrades and had resolved to purchase a Chinese EL156 integrated when I stumbled upon an Atma-sphere S-30 within my budget.
I figured due to the fact that the integrated is available all day every day at the same price while S-30s barely ever come up used, I would give it a whirl.
I had just finished resolving not to buy an amp with exposed tubes, but somehow convinced myself that if I do like this solution I can rig something up to keep my kid and pets away.... it will probably look terrible, but next weeks listening sessions should be interesting. |
Gopher,
I see that the Dynaco and the F1J are both up for sale. What did you end up settling on for your Superflys? |
Have had the Soul Superfly for a few weeks now. It's just what I was looking for, a Druid++. |
I too wonder whether to order the Omen at 999 or the Sould for 500 more? At this moment their pricing and line is very confusing. |
Anyone using the Wadia 151 Dac Mini with the Superfly? |
Nothing to do with superfly, but I finally got around to making dramatic room changes to Druid with impact on sound. Some improvement as I expected, and some big surprise as well.
My room is large, open L with cathedral ceiling and suffer from typical big room problem. Floor is cavity. I was running druid with megabuck Rotel class-d, plus seal B&W sub. Setup was in closed portion at end of "L" to deal with open room. Setup druid on wood plank.
I had a midrange suckout which I deal with with digital EQ, plus I had mid bass that really need to be run hot for it to be audible, even though it show up measuring very over (+8-9 db).
I move druid to corner of L. I put speaker on 6 inch of brick. I swap out Rotel for Peachtree Nova, and B&W for two ported subs. Most heretical, I run sub from 30-60Hz, and Druid from 60Hz+. Rolloff is sharp.
I have wanted to run dual subwoofer for long time, and given improvement from floor to wood, was interested in wood to something harder.
Here is what I find:
1. The denser the surface under the druid the better. From carpet to wood to tile to thick brick it just get better and better in upper bass and midrange.
2. Mid bass remain freakshow. 60Hz cutoff helps. It also help midrange. In general, tonal density of speaker is immense now. It is like sticking head in bucket of sound. I am interested if I can get even more of this immersion.
3. Nova is remarkable amp. I try mid-fi integrated with DAC (HK) and Nova was so clearly better it makes me laugh. Maybe you can get better amp than Nova, but Nova kick butt of low end AB integrated, and high end class-d. I had given up on class-d, and now I give up on it even more.
4. Ported subs were harder to integrate than seal. I first integrate roughtly with 20-200Hz sweeps, and then voice to actual music. But it works OK now. I also find that I must place subs very very close to main speaker. Maybe this is because I cross over very high, but group delay from sub is real phenomenon.
4. Midrange suckout is gone. I have no idea where it went. This is most curious to me. Maybe there were standing waves in the end of L that are gone in corner. I do not understand how place speaker in the most OPEN part of overly large room fixed so many of "big room" problem.
5. Digital EQ sucks. I am so happy to be rid of it.
6. I now have to sit on two pillows on chair since druid is so much higher. Ear height make big difference.
7. Because midrange is so richer, I can have speaker further apart and keep same tonal density. Sound stage is massive, and I think that is what creates the immersion in part. I am getting closer to solid wall of sound.
8. Once again, I am taught importance of toe-in for druid. I spend a long time on this, and literally milimeter change create great coherence. On track where synth play with phase to make sound slither around, i literally hear it run all around the room. Even behind me sometimes, it is very cool effect.
9. While imaging is something I do not care about, this setup does not really have it, but there is presence in the solid wall. Hard to describe.
10. This system scale very nicely. So you have track with quiet portion, it is nice and focus and clear. And then when you get crescendo, it is like everything get bigger. Sound stage gets bigger, power gets bigger, just more massive on every dimension. This is also very nice effect, I would like to get even more drama in this "scale" impact.
11. Off axis, system went from being "good" to "bad". In spot it is actively unlistenable. Oh well. |
So I have had the Leben 300XS up and running for around three days now, and it is spectacular. If anyone is looking for a good match, this is a great one. It is a great performer across the board.
I would still say that the Miniwatt is a great performer for its price point. But the Leben is spectacular. |
Gopher:
I am merely pointing out that their pricing makes no sense and is very confusing.
I am so releived to hear taht they have a long term plan. I hopes to gods it is better than their short term plan.
I have no interest in talking to Zu CEO. He really has bigger problems to focus on |
Zanon, my friend. It seems you're looking for a conflict here ;)
I suggest you give Zu a buzz or drop their new CEO a line. They have a long term plan which makes the Omen and Soul's existence alongside the Omen make perfect sense, but its not my place to voice it.
Of course the Soul is the standard at $1800 and the Soul Superfly remains at its projected price in the US.
From the specs of the Omen I suspect it will be a slightly more laid back speaker than the Souls. Despite same or similar driver/tweeter as Superfly (CEO told me same as Soul, Sean told someone else same as Druid).
I think Zu described the Omen as a shorter Druid that isn't gap sensitive (hearsay). The Soul (standard and superfly) were both described as the next evolution/superior to the druid).
Again, speak to Zu directly as their CEO volunteered plenty of info, but as they haven't made any announcements on the forums I won't spill the beans. |
Gopher:
Yes, you are right! Soul is now $1800 MSRP and Omen is $1500 MSRP
These prices make no sense of course. Is Soul the standard or superfly? Why would anyone get $1500 Omen instead of $1800 Soul? It is laughable. I will laugh as pricing continues to evolve. |
The Essence with Naim gear IMO is too much, the Essence speaker isn't a good balance overall, they do have some outstanding traits with the Naim amps, but swapping to other manufacturers amps brings them to life.
The Druids are a fine match with the CDX2 and Naim amps as they calm their (what can be termed) as bright and glassines, with the further opened tweeter unit in the Soul Superfly I wonder if this will still be the case? In my experience the CDS3 that Mahughes moved upto when listening to the Essence at our dealers, is a better match with these speakers, but IMO not a very good match with the Druids (that I once had), with the slightly dark nature of the Druids presentation coupled with a similar darker sounded CDS3, culminated in a sound presentation which was not engaging or enjoyable overall.
I do believe that mine and Mahughes requirements regarding engaging music are one and the same, it is just that we have/are tackling in it in a different direction. But I could be wrong;) |
No they aren't.
Omen: 1500msrp $1000 preorder
Soul: 1800msrp $1500 preorder new customer $1400 prior |
"blank statements" - well I could talk all night about each Zy speaker but a balance has to be struck and my statement has to be seen in the context of other statements I have made here on Essence re: the two different perceptions of it that exist.
FWIW, at my dealer we worked our way from my Naim amps and power supplies to what used to be owned by Avonessence. As we moved up instruments became much more natural but lost a little PRaT. Fine for some but not for me. What we could not lose regardless of amp was a certain cuppiness on female vocals. Two people disliked it. One was okay with it. It has been noted in reviews of the Essence so I wasn't just imagining it.
Other things do come into play though. When on demo in my own space the vocals were less cuppy but were recessed. It could only be fixed by locating them in open space too far into the room to be acceptable.
For many people they do treble more in the expected "hi-fi" way but for just as many the Druid, for but one example, does it more naturally and coherently. Each to their own :) |
Are these the same speakers that were $999 recently? was taht a pre-order or a per-pre-order?
and i could have swong the $999 price was discount for original $1500 MSRP.
I cannot wait to see how Soul (maybe superfly, maybe not superfly) pricing evolves! |
Zanon,
There really isn't anything confusing about it... I think you should re-read a little more carefully.
$1800 is msrp. Pre-orders are discounted to $1500 for new Zu customers and to $1400 for existing Zu customers. |
LOL!
I just got email from Zu who say standard Zu Soul pricing is $1800!
So, what is it? $1500? $1400? $1800?
what a complete mess. |
"Don't you love when blank statements are made about a unit that is not thought out.
This is HI-FI sounding and this is not. There are 10 different factors in play for the final sound and not just one unit. To say the Essence is Hi Fi sounding is ........."
Hi Glory,
You are quite for using such generalising terms.
IMO HiFi sounding is something that sounds accurate and detailed but is not engaging.
Cheers
James |
Don't you love when blank statements are made about a unit that is not thought out.
This is HI-FI sounding and this is not. There are 10 different factors in play for the final sound and not just one unit. To say the Essence is Hi Fi sounding is .........
|
"Essence lovely but a bit too hi-fi (oh noo!) and with some cuppiness in the vocals."
As Phil has stated in the past, you need to get the amp right with the speakers. I personally do not experience any hifi-ness or vocal cuppiness with my Essence's, to my ears the Essence are much more engaging in all aspects than the Druids. |
Just got the email, they're introducing the normal version of Zu soul for 1400.
I still think the omen at 1k is a better deal. Anyone with knowledge between these two care to comment? |
From my talks with Sean, the Omen uses the Druid frd with new phase plug, the Soul the new frd with More attack and faster transients ESP in kick drum areas of bass/mid.
The Soul/Omen could be upgraded to almost superply status for $250 yourself if you don't mind diy. 2x Mundorf sio caps and Duelund resistors = $120 and quietcoat or soundpaint to paint the inside of cabinet for $80. Of course you would lose warranty. You could buy Soul/Omen keep them for a few years and then mod them......
I've modded my Druids with Seans advice to be very close to superply status...... I'll post a separate topic about it later. $500ish which is cheaper than selling/buying/shipping ( to Australia for me) and was fun to do ...... |
Gopher,
I have already made my choice in the context of having heard Druid, Presence, Essence and Defs. Defs too expensive for me. Presence ditto and an odd look. Essence lovely but a bit too hi-fi (oh noo!) and with some cuppiness in the vocals. Druids - perfect in size and sound for my room and system (well maybe a bit tall). So, all that said, the Superfly suits me down to the ground in terms of being smaller yet better than the Druid from accounts so far.
What I'm not getting is, unless you are absolutely strapped for cash or unable to save, what would help you decide between Omen and Soul or indeed Superfly. My assumption is that the Omen will be slightly less dynamic and the driver switch will maybe impact on sound dispersion. The internal cabling may also tweak the "house sound" but none of these? to me, make Thr choice clear cut.
So, interesting to see how it's all going to pan out.
Incidentally, given that this is s thread about Superfly, I think it's about time we had a comprehensive update on how yours are doing. I've read plenty about amp changes but how do you currently feel bout the speakers?
Mike |
Bwp,
The choice would be easier if Zu hadn't inverted the discounts. They gave $500 off the cheaper speaker and $300 off the more expensive one. doh! |
George,
I have no idea. I'm in the UK so the pricing is different anyway.
Mike |
Tough choice, Omen or Soul for only $500 more bucks. I prefer the cabinet of the Omen, my only hesitation is the tweeter being below the woofer. The cabinet may be a little to small for that configuration, they will be well below my ear at my listening position. |
@Mike, was Maple and black anodised available with introductory offer? |
Anyone notice the Soul is out? And with intro pricing too... http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/soul.html |
George,
The thing with Zu is that, within reason, any finish is available.
I kind of agree about the Cardas knob in the sense that it's not as user friendly as earlier versions but I do think it's entirely in keeping with the low cost, simple ethos around the Soul, Superfly and Omen.
Mike |
