Zu Soul Superfly

Interesting development (well, I’ve done further reading). 
Lavardin solid state integrated looks a feasible option. 
I’m getting the impression that 8ohm amps are fine with the Superfly and, whilst most prefer valves, there is a small subset of solid state that work really well. This looks like it could be a good match.

@cat_doorman it’s an option mooted on a couple of other forums and indeed it’s suggested as one of the original design objectives by Rob Watts. However, I asked Chord directly and they’ve changed their minds as it’s not what the output stage was designed for. 
I sort of new Pass and First Watt were options. Must admit I’d not considered Sugden so that is something to look at.
I wonder what happened to the other posters who said they knew people had run SS with Superfly?

@mahughes have you ever tried running your speakers straight from the Hugo? I’ve heard of people doing that with efficient enough speakers. You need a special cable, but supposedly from the balanced out it can deliver 18W into 8 ohms. Might be an interesting experiment. 

Look for a Class A sweeter sounding SS amp if tubes are a no go - Pass/First Watt, Sugden. Maybe keep an eye out on the local used market.

So, been a while and I’ve just done a fairly radical update to my system. Have binned my Naim CDX2 source after 18 years and the realisation that it’s now too harsh for my ageing tinnitus ridden ears allied to a plain simple lack of space for any more CDs. System is now Innuos Zenith 3 into Chord Hugo TT2 DAC going into a Naim 202/200 HCDR and NAPSC and all into the rather wonderful Zu Soul Superfly. 

Very long story cut short: The source is wonderful. The speakers are wonderful. The amplification is probably a level below what I need but holds its own reasonably well. However, at slightly higher volumes where the Superfly comes to life there is a lack of consistency and mid warmth. Rock in particular sounds under-powered. 
I am aware of an impedance mismatch between the speakers and the amp. It’s not the end of the world. I don’t tend to drive things loudly. Equally they have previously soared for years.  
Mrs. H. has ruled out valve amps for a variety of complex and not unreasonable reasons so I have several thoughts on which I’d like a view.

1 - loading resistors from Zu. I’ve yet to speak to Naim or Zu about this but people on other forums tend to the view that it’s a cheap thing to try but likely won’t make any difference. Your thoughts would be welcome. 
2 - if loading resistors then which ones? It’s been suggested 10ohm would be the contender but I’m unclear (and lack the technical knowledge) as to why. Again, thoughts?

3 - a replacement solid state amp which would work better with the Superfly. I’m well aware it was designed for valves but equally aware that several users found solid state amplification which sounded great. It’s been a few years since I’ve been on this thread but it seemed the obvious place to start. Who here continues to use their Superfly with solid state and what options are on the table. My funds will initially be limited to £2k but could stretch to £4k as the year progresses. 
If it helps then the Innuos source is pretty neutral and relaxed whilst the DAC is phenomenally detailed but also incredibly relaxed. I’d like to keep the detail but add some mid range. 
Thanks in advance. 

Hi Wilsynet,

My Druid V's are in a room very similar in size to yours.
No issues what so ever with placement.

If you do go for the Druid V's the Dueland Black Copper Caps are a must on the high frequency network, expensive but definately worth it IMO.

The Druid V is an investment in your connection to the music IME, well worth every penny.

James from the UK

One day I will have a pair of Coincident Frankensteins. Morganc brought his pair over once, and I was floored with how good they sounded. Why he sold them, I'll never know.

The Franks are in my want to have list, as is the First Watt J2. Both do what they do superbly well.

Hi Wilsynet,
I have the Driud V's in a room a little bigger then yours and run an Undertone sub with no problems. All rear ported speakers gave me bass problems. The Zu's bottom ports load a room much better.

If you can swing the extra money go with the Druids.The cabinet is very quiet, and with the FRD at the top of a taller speaker the soundstage has more height.

I love mine. I am running them with my 300b Franks and the sound is wonderful!

Joe

I'm actually trying to decide on the Soul Supreme or the Druid MK V.

I understand the Druid MK V is better, can create music with more accuracy and more scale. But in rooms which are not large, is perhaps the Soul Supreme pretty darn close?

Also wonder if perhaps in a smaller room the Supreme is easier to place than the Druid.

Room is 12' x 14' and I sit about 8 ft from the speakers.

Thoughts?

The Supreme is a significant upgrade the Superfly. As Snopro says the Radian 850 is a big upgrade from the older tweeter. More open, sweeter and transparent without any hardness. I do think it's more than just the tweeter. It takes everything that was great about the Superfly to a higher level. The better things are upstream,(amp, preamp, source) the more your going to hear what the Supreme can do.

What's nice about the Superfly and the Supreme is that both can be paired with super components without apology but they also sound really good with more modest components.. I'm using an Atmasphere S30 OTL which IMHO is a match
made in heaven. There is nothing except the speaker wire between the tubes and the 10" driver and only a high quality capacitor and resistor to the tweeter. But I have also heard the Superfly with a Stereo 70, CJ MV52, and Audio Research Classic 30 with excellent results.

If your finanical resources allow would go for the Supreme but the Superfly is also a terrific speaker.

The Radian tweeter is so much better then the older tweeter. It is much more open, smoother and integrates with the nano FRD much better.

Any thoughts on how much of an improvement the Soul Supreme is versus the Superfly?

Bboring,
I 've had the Superfly and now the Superfly Supreme. I think your Rouge integrated amp will be fine using the 8 ohm tap. At 100 watts/ch the amp will be coasting. After you have had the Superfly and you think this is the combo for the longterm you can talk to Rouge about a 16 ohm tap if possible or just leave things alone and just enjoy.

They do make an 8 ohm 10" single driver for the Omen but I don't think it's the same quality of sound as the one in the Superfly. That's a question for Sean. In the Omen Definition and Definition the 2 10" drivers are wired together to produce 8 ohms. They can also be wired for 32 ohms on request, which someone with an OTL amp might want.

Hope this helps.

I think you can order the Superfly with an 8 ohm driver. I might be mistaken, but Sean can set you straight if you call Zu. They are very customer service oriented.

Shakey

First off, what a great thread for anyone interested in Superfly's! Thanks for all the helpful input.

I'm seriously considering the Superfly's. About a year ago I got the Rogue Cronus Magnum and I'm wondering if there is anything I can/should do to optimize the outputs for a 16 ohm driver? Thanks in advance.

Brian.

Gopher,

Yes it is.

That is interesting, Hugh. The AN211 isn't exactly bass deficient and I'm pleased with its low end driving my Def 2s. The AN845 must be monstrous!

G,

I'll try my best.

Melody Aodixun products consisted of AN211, AN300B, AN845, & P2688. The first 3 are integrated amps while the last one is Melody Premier pre-amp.

These are luxury product line from Melody.

As far as 845 based normal models, we have only the 3 monoblocks and they are M845, PM845, & MN845.

My personal impression of AN845 vs. AN211 in my own system is as follows:
AN845 retains most of AN211 finesses such as detailed, smooth, 3-dimensional, & velvet while is much more powerful in the low end than AN211.
The bottom line is I like the AN845 a lot.

Thanks,

Hugh

Nhocti, can you please say something about your impressionsm, particularly in comparison to the AN211? From what I remember Melody has/had an 845 amp called MN845, but that seems to be a different animal?

I understand that the AN211 and the AN845 run under the Aodixun logo, is that a seperate entity or just a production line of Melody?

What is this AN845 you speak of!?!

G,

I'm the only one in The US who had heard the big AN845 since we just got it in stock a few weeks ago.

FYI, I am Melody US Distributor. :)

Has anyone perhaps heard or tried the Melody AN211 bigger brother, the AN845?

Gopher,

Take your time.

There's no need to rush it.
The key is to just listening to you favorite tunes then, before you know it, you'll hear the differences. :)

By the way, it's a little off topic but 'your' Soul Superfly will be traded in for a Extreme pair to take their place in our Karaoke setup. (-_-)

Thanks to you too, Hugh.

I'll post some more detailed impressions as this baby logs some hours and burns in. I can hear the tremendous promise, but its a little early in the game still.

I hate burn in... wish I could fast forward 2 weeks, lol!

Thanks Gopher.
Now you know why I have 1 in my bedroom.
Thanks again for your business.
Enjoy.

Fantastic news Gopher ! I've got a write up on it coming out soon........wish I still had the demo to hear with my New Zu Def mk iii's!

Just wanted to add that I received my Melody AN211 yesterday and without any real burn in and mostly stock tubes (changed the rectifier right away) the thing is a killer match to Zu speakers. I'm already loving what it does with the 6ohm Zu Definition 2s and I'm very excited to see what will happen with further burn in and my upcoming move to nanotech drivers (which will also make load 8ohm).

Anyone considering this amp has my big endorsement for it! This may be a destination piece for me.

Thanks for the hint. I will check them out. I am in Germany, so not too far away, at least by US standards

Gemini,

Here is Melody European Distributor:
http://www.robytone.nl/

Where are you located?

Gemini,

I committed to the purchase of the Melody AN211 and coincidentally the person buying my MK88 is the owner of a pair of Soul Superflys with nanotec drivers, so maybe he will chime in as to the pairing.

I was looking at the prices to get gear from places like Catylink and you've got some real good Chinese stuff available very cheaply.

Thank you for your input. I agree there are quite a few good 45, 2A3 and of course 300 B SET amps in the 2-8 Watts range but I am not certain this will be sufficient power for my needs. I will get an Audion Silver Night 300B in my room in the near future and will be able to see how it comes along with its 7-8 watts. but currently I am thinking more in the 18-35 watts range.
Many of the brands relatively well known in the US have little presence over here, for example Sophia Electric, Audion and even Melody (I think currently not distributed in Europe) and I am hesitant to mail-order one just based on forum reviews. I would assume that the Soul has less power needs than the Definition, is that right? If someone could let me know whether I need to look for something different on the Soul Superfly as opposed to the amp needs of the Definition speakers that would be very helpful (for example, does Black Shadow or other 845 amps or a Quad II Forty behave as well on the Souls as on the Def?).

I'm really partial to the Melody gear and Zu speakers. I'm using an MK88 (KT88 push pull that is surprisingly beautiful) right now and am hoping to buy an AN211 as a potential 'destination' amp with my Def 2s (nanotec drivers on order).

Given you are in Europe, the amp could be had pretty cheaply too.

When I had Zu Def 2s, I tried 45 (Yamamoto), 2a3 (DeJa Vu Audio), and eventually 300b (Ancient Audio) SETs. In part because I have very long speaker cable runs - probably 50' or so from one side of the room, under the floor through the cellar, and up the other side of the room - and because I have a huge listening space, I found that the 45 and 2a3 SET amps lacked necessary oomph. A 8 watt 300b SET was about the lower limit of what I considered acceptable.

I now have Zu Def 4s and find the combination with Ancient Audio Lektor Prime and a custom 300b SET (an updated version of the Integra that Jarek no longer makes) with Takatsuki TA-300b tubes to be great. (I have not gone back to try lower power SETs with the Def 4s, however.) If you go the 300b route, do not underestimate the impact of these Japanese 300b tubes; I tried Shuguang Black Treasures that came with the amp and Sophia Royal Princes, and the difference is significant.

As far as Ancient Audio is concerned, I like their gear; but it can be a bit quirky. Jarek built a novel (for him, at least) protective circuit into my 300b SET. When I first tried the Sophia and then Takatsuki 300b (rated at 60-65 mA), the circuit tripped within 60-90 minutes; and the amplifier shut down almost immediately. Finding a pair of 300b with a lower mA rating prolonged the listening time before it shut down, but not by much. I had Deja Vu Audio look at it; they replace a few small parts and changed the bias; and I now can get about 4-5 hours of listening before the circuit is activated and another 2-3 hours before the amp shuts down. This circuit may have seemed to be a good idea to Jarek, but it is frustrating. I have not listened to either his flagship 300b PSET or his 6c33 based amps. However, I must confess that despite all of the other issues, I enjoy the sound as well as the fact that they are "unique" - especially in North America. Conversely, dealing with problems between Washington, DC and Krakow can be frustrating. From your list, I assume that you are in Europe. Jarek welcomes contact with potential customers (although he is sometimes slow to answer email) and is very hospitable; I bought the Lektor Prime CDP after listening to it in his home in Krakow.

I heard the Yamamoto 45 SET a few weekends ago with the Def 4s, but it was in a small room. Two other amplifier manufacturers that you might consider are Sophia Electric and Border Patrol. Phil (Cobra 213) thinks that 845 SET amps - specifically either the Audion or the Sophia Electric - mate extremely well with the Def 4s; I have not heard either.

I am currently listening to Soul Superflys but saving for Def. 4 as my "final"speakers.

In the meantime I am thinking about upgrading my amp as well which is currently a RWA Sig. 30.2. (pre is Modwright 9.0 SWLP). I am generally quite happy with it but sometimes find it a tad sterile so would like a bit more emotionality. A bit more soundstaging and also power/weight would also be welcome. I listen to quite a bit of rock music and have a fairly big room (approx 60sqm, opening into an adjoining hall). My idea is to make a bit step up on the amp now on the Superflys and then use it on the Def. 4 in a future hopefully not too far away.

So I am thinking about a tube SET or maybe even p-p amp (voiced in the SET direction) with approx.20 + watts in the 7-9 k range new. Hopefully this would enable a big step forward (I am not interested in changing just for the sake of changing something) and would appreciate your thoughts. As I am in Europe many of the US brands are not readily available here but I will make an effort to find Audion and some of the Italian brands such as Mastersound. I thought also about lesser known brands such as NAT (their SE1 models looks nice), Ancient Audio or Trafomatic (they have a 45 p-p model which I think might fit the Superflys but not sure about the Def. 4).
Any thoughts are very welcome.
Gemini

From the 30 minutes or so I spent in front of them I'll say the nanotecs are a very worthwhile upgrade for the Superfly. My Superflys never had the level of resolution and refinement the new driver did. Staging also seemed a lot bigger--overall it was just a more complete listen.

I've got the nanotecs ordered for my Definitions now and am eagerly awaiting their arrival in about a month.

Welcome back Gopher! I checked out your system over at AC, lookin real nice! Always liked the gloss black finish. I might have to look into those nanotech drivers myself as I'm still amazed with the sound of my Superflys. Hard to imagine they could sound better. Keep us posted.

My thoughts at the moment are that it would take a very compelling speaker or an abysmal, unworkable room to move me from team Zu again. These speakers are so harmonically complete, meaty, and tonally saturated while being wonderfully transparant. I can't even imagine what the nanotec drivers will bring, but no I've gotta have 'em.

My VR-33s were nice speakers, but these things are giving me so much more of everything... I don't mean to de-rail my own thread but... damn!

Great Gopher, was anxious to hear your thoughts.Wait to you hear the new drivers!

Great Gopher, was anxious to hear your thoughts.Wait to you hear the new drivers!

I'm baaack!

The Def 2s sound incredible and I'm instantly happy with my decision to return to Zu. I'm planning on plopping some nanotec drivers in there and marking my speaker search as complete for foreseeable future.

Like a Thief in the night.

That's very encouraging. The wall distance will be critical for me as I'll just be clearing the 9.5 to 10 foot distance requirement.

I don't know that I'll go to that extent, though nanotec drivers are on the immediate to do list. Followed by that dac we discussed... After all that is done, I'll see if I even want for anything. I was initially thinking of putting the dac off pending the an amp upgrade, but hearing Zu has exhibited the def 4 with my Melody MK88 with great results has me wanting to put that off.

I'm picking them up in about 9 hours and am beyond excited!

Have mine 12" from the front wall with great results. You are in for a sweet ride.

Upgrade the super tweeter then buy the new Zu amp for the subs and do a little reinforcement of the box and presto you have MK3.

Oh forgot, rewire with Stage 3 Concepts wire for a better speaker than the Def4 LOL.

I couldn't compare it to the Omen, but I heard the nanotecs in a Superfly this past Saturday and it was pretty stunning. It was fed by a cherry amp which is an 'unusual' pairing for a 101db speaker at 700wpc, but it was a great match.

The resulting sound was more transparent, refined and dynamic then I recalled my Superflys being. The stage was also far bigger than I remembered. I got a taste of what the Def 4s could do at that same meet, but truthfully, upstairs the nano'ed Souls were more impressive for the coin.

On a side note, I'm returning to team zu! Tomorrow morning I'm picking up a Piano Black pair of Definition 2s which I plan to install nanotec drivers in. Speaking to Sean it appears they are far easier to place then the Soul Superflys and can get very close to my front wall which is a HUGE plus for me. Can't wait!!

Has anyone here heard the new nanotech HO driver in the Soul Superfly MK.1-B? Really curious to know how it sounds in comparison to the driver in the Zu Omen.

I had the threaded glider 3/8"-16 (1 inch long) for my Souls.

I exchanged it when I sold the Souls in favor of the Cone/Spike Decoupling Glider which does the same thing, but is universal with other spiked speakers.

Gopher, what size gliders did u use? I might try these.

Guys, check out the Herbies Glider threaded posts for the Superflys. Significant improvement at very modest cost. Better definition top to bottom and makes placement tweaking much easier.

I heard the Druids had most synergy with Libtec cables. I preferred the mission ICs to the Varials and gedes.

No harm in checking out wywires......... Go for it :)

Thanks Gopher, really appreciate ur advice.

The wywire cables are sensational. Their interconnects, speaker cables and.digital cables are really outstanding and played a huge role in bringing out thepotential of my rig which I recently messed up a bit.

Seriously, they arent cheap but they're excellent. Buy em and try them... with the trial periods.you cannot go wrong.

Zu mission ics weren't bad at all, but I really didnt like there speaker cables... I rather disliked them which was a surprise after reading how the druids couldn't be appreciated without there cabling, but the ears don't lie.

The eastern electric dac is pretty nice in stock form, though mine is upgraded by the Bolder Cable Co. Definitely a good snag on the used market!