Tube Vs. SS Preamps

There is no correct answer to your question. Different designers are going to focus on different things. For me Don Sach's DS2 preamp with the right tubes is the most accurate preamp I have had in my system. It drives my ML 29L amp perfectly. One of these days I'll finish building my amplifier which is very similar to Don's amp, which is largely based upon the Tubes4HIFI Mods for Hafler's Dynaco ST70. Don used to be known for his mods to Macintosh and HK tube gear. Roy ((TUBES4HIFI) is a fantastic designer, and Don took Roy's improvements and just blew them up using amazing components, and power supply upgrades.

I started out with a prototype amp Roy made, and I wanted more. I have shelved it for now because I stumbled upon a deal on the ML 29L. I had been using a PS AUDIO 200C, which controls the speakers about as well as the ML, but is darker and has less definition. That's what motivated me to look at a tube amp, but the ML finally has me at the point of contentment.

So, it's not nearly so much a SS vs Tubes, you can find plenty of both that suck, and a few that are awesome. It all depends upon how well designed they are, and how much they were screwed up by using crappy or even decent components vs the best or one of the best components here or there.

Then there are personal preference issues. I divide listeners into 2 primary categories. One I call Vandersteen types. These folks don't want exact replication, they would prefer a bit darker sound so that they can enjoy lower quality productions. They'll listen to music that used more mediocre equipment for producing it, or some that just wasn't mixed well, etc. I used to think of them negatively, obviously I am in the other camp. Then I gave it some thought and realized that everyone likes what they like, and as long as we're talking strictly music, what's important is that they enjoy their music, not that I like their system.

The other camp wants to hear the music as it was made, warts and all. I gave up turntables as soon as I had tweaked a CD player to the point that it was listenable. I was paying high dollars for "high end" records that seemed to have more surface noise than mass produced records from a decade or two previously. Was it really record or was it the equipment I was listening to it on, who knows, it just drove my crazy to pay so much for such noisy records. Anyway, it's difficult to answer your question intelligently because I don't know your preferences, and frankly, if it hasn't been in my system, how do I know if other components are coloring the music, making me think a good component is mediocre or worse?

I know that finally, when listening to a good recording, it sounds like I am there more so than on any other system that I have ever heard. I suspect that my DAC Isa shade bright, but I don't want to spend 5K or so only to find out that DAC X, Y, or Z is worse in some respect, or that it seems plight occasionally because the master was slightly bright, therefore copies made from it are bright too?

If you want accurate, but don't want tubes, and are willing to sacrifice a shade of realism, I have had a Parasound P5 in my system. I suspect they may not use all discrete devices in the signal path, but if I just couldn't afford tubes, I think that I could live with it. That said, I believe that the Halo 7's are selling for under $900 used and while I have never heard one in my system, I strongly suspect that they sound better than the P5.

It largely depends upon what you want and what you are willing to spend to get it. I am talking about a 30 year old memory here, but as I remember it, if I didn't care about turning up the volume, or hearing deep bass, the most magical speakers I recall hearing before mine were the old Quad ELS57s. Unfortunately finding my drivers would be like finding hen's teeth so I won't bother naming them. If you don't have a large budget, I am told by a source whom I know well that the crazy inexpensive Lii 15 sounds crazy good for the money, this fellow I believe will sell you the speakers and an open baffle for them.

http://www.caintuckaudio.com/Lii_15.html

agree that lesser tube gear often pleases, especially in the case of those coming from similar priced solid state, which exhibits classic ss harshness and lack of dimensionality - but this pleasing nature comes at the expense of speed and clarity

let’s diaggregate a little

lesser/older tube gear provides

1. rolled off treble
2. little to no deep bass, poor bass damping
3. enriched/expanded midrange and midbass
4. lower sense of drive and rhythm and attack when needed
5. improved imaging and sense of natural ’decay’ on notes (think piano natural reverb)
6. reduced sense of grain and grit in treble and mids (pleasant smoothing effect)

better/top tier tube gear provides

• extended ’hear through’ treble but not forward like all but the best solid state
• very good deep bass with still a somewhat enriched midbass
• somewhat but perhaps less bloomy midrange (than lower tube gear)
• excellent sense of slam and prat (if still a touch less than the best solid state)
• outstanding expanded, ’holographic’ imaging, natural attack and decay of notes, excellent cohesion top to bottom
• clarity without any traces of electronic artifacts

hope this helps those progressing on the experience curve

@jffyg     ”I am going to chime in here and then everyone can attack me. I think that many lesser priced tube based designs can be very musical and soft sounding which compliments many lesser expensive ss designed amps…”

Nothing to attack, it’s a generality. I agree with your assessment. I have swapped a lot of less expensive equipment in my headphone system and early on in my main system. Your assessment is good.

[@jiffyg] I am going to chime in here and then everyone can attack me. I think that many lesser priced tube based designs can be very musical and soft sounding which compliments many lesser expensive ss designed amps. So on the more affordable side of things I believe that tubed equipment sounds pleasing, maybe not super revealing or hyper accurate, but very pleasing. Obviously as the price goes up and the true art and science of sound reproduction is achieved both solid state and tubed designs both hit all the stops, sound stage, intimacy, immediacy and revealing of source information.

At least you know what you like and can obtain it.  Some don't know, and drive themselves nuts rotating one piece of gear to the next never finding what they like.  

In a similar fashion to your findings there can be what I think of as the "golden era" sound to some older tube amps and older receivers, integrated, preamps with old caps and old carbon resistors and such that can be enjoyable to listen to.

Recently helping a friend on his highly modified "lesser cost" Jolida integrated tube amplifier, with old vintage input/driver tubes and newer PSVANE KT88s mixed with some decent interconnect and speaker cables we hit on the same sound you refer to. It's quite musical to listen to, and his total amp investment is about half cost of comparable amps with equal or less musicality. It can be achieved, to your point.   

SPL Elector is a solid state preamp that does a nice job of mimicking an excellent tube preamp.  Beautiful, airy, textured sound with great tone colors.  Also, clear as a bell...