The Verity Parsifal are mightly fine and highly resolving, but not to the same extent as the Merlins; they do provide a bit more impactful bass, though the gap in that area has narrowed with the latest version of the VSMs. To my ears, Verity and Merlin are world class speakers. |
Does WAF include placement in the room of the speaker? Most speakers sound their very best well away from back walls and sides. Some are designed to be a bit more flexible in placement.
I thought that one of the better sounding speakers that was not excessively large in size, and more importantly, worked very well close to a back wall or corner, is the Gradient Revolution. I heard these in a small room backed up against the back wall and they sounded pretty good in such difficult setups. Audionote speakers are good in that respect too, but, they are pretty ugly looking.
Some of the Sonus Faber speakers are reasonably compact, very nicely finished and can (though not optimally) be placed fairly close to walls.
The Magico minis would also fit the bill, except for the price. These sounded very good to me and surprisingly "BIG" for such a compact speaker.
Another compact, nice sounding speaker, is the Gryphon Cantata. I believe it is no longer a current model, but, perhaps there is a suitable replacement model or you can find a used or demo pair. |
...I recommend you to listen to these speakers:
1. Thiel 3.7.
2. Revel studio 2.
3. Wilson Sophia2.
4. Avalon indra.
|
Used Salon 2s are in your price range and have appeared here several times lately. |
I've been running the Classic Audio Reproductions T3, equipped with the field coil drivers. So far it is the best combination of characteristics I have heard in a loudspeaker.
97db, 20Hz-45Khz, 16 ohms, ultra transparent (rivals any ESL), easy to drive (a 60 watt amp cannot be clipped in most rooms), easy placement (my set is 6" from the rear wall). Nice finish. Any my girlfriend really likes them :) |
Geared4me, I've already auditioned the Studio2's and was extremely disappointed in their performance. The Studio2's were the number one speaker on my list but after the audition I wouldn't touch them. I'm looking to audition Avalon Indras in the near future. Somebody else recommended the Usher Be-10s to me but I think those are a bit big to go into my room. |
I'm surprised that you don't think the Sapphires are physically attractive. I love Dynaudio speakers, and I find the Sapphire to be the most attractive speaker they've ever produced. I haven't read the whole thread, but if you were choosing just based on physical appearance, what would you choose? |
I heard the Classic Audio Reproduction T-3s powered by Atmasphere's OTL amps and the combination is fantastic. I know looks are in the eye of the beholder, but, it does not strike me as being high on the WAF scale, particularly give the size of these speakers.
Perhaps, an appropriate bribe could result in a more favorable rating -- factor that into your price range. |
Take a listen to the Rockport Technologies Mira. IMHO, this is the best speaker under 20K, but make no mistake, I am quite a bit biased since I do own a pair. I also used to own a pair of 10T's, the Mira's are much better in every way and compare favorably to the WP8's. http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/rockport_technologies_mira.htm |
You should also try listening to the Verity Parsifal Ovation. |
Don't like the looks. I've narrowed my choice down to 3: Avalon Indra, Wilson Sophia2 or Watt\Puppy 7-8. Anyone whose compared these systems, I'd be very interested in their opinion. My nearest Avalon dealer is a couple of hours away. |
does your wife have an aversion to speakers over 5 feet high and 18 inches wide ? i am reluctant to suggest panel speakers because of the potential of displeasure with the size.
is there anything you can do to get her to modify her opinion ? perhaps offer her something in return to allow you to purchase the speaker of your choice ?? |
Oh man, listen long & hard before buying the Wilsons. Many threads you can search w/ pros & cons, but safe to say that opinions on them are greatly debated.
As a former Avalon owner, I agree that they look great. They are sensitive to matching electronics, but I'm guessing your Pass amp would be great match, if not overkill.
Personally, I prefer others already suggested: Merlins, Veritys, Vandersteen5A, but to each his own. Please consider room placement requirements of whatever you're considering. A great speaker against a wall usually isn't a great speaker anymore; don't spend and fool yourself. Cheers,
spencer |
Good advice from Sbank. It would be a pity to spend big bucks and not get good sound because of placement issues. Aside from size, the suggestion of the Vandersteen has the advantage of the speaker offering some flexibility as to bass response should you require placement close to a wall.
Again, I suggest looking into the Gradient Revolution because of its great flexibility and intended placement close to back walls and corners. |
I agree with Spencer Bank. |
In the right setup, Wilsons can be amazing with their high resolution and the way they hang images in 3D space. Out of all the Wilsons, the Sophias have the advantage of being the smallest and (relatively) easiest to move into optimum position.
BUT!
Wilson speakers came out of Dave Wilson's need for better playback monitors. They are revealing first, musical second. In a professional setting or a no-compromise dedicated listening room, they can be stunning; compromise their placement and room treatment, and you won't be enjoying them so much.
The problem you have here is that you gravitate toward no-holds-barred ruthlessly revealing speakers, while you need to make a concession to placement and decor, the very factors that make ultra high-res speakers unpleasant to listen to.
Placement of any speakers is important, but some more than others, and Wilsons more than most, which is why the purchase of any Wilson speakers includes in-home setup and placement by a factory-trained dealer.
Have you given a listen to any Sonus Faber speakers? They are gorgeous-looking, beautifully made, unfailingly musical, and yet provide a far greater level of detail and resolution than one would expect of "pretty" speakers. The newer "Cremona M" floorstander is relatively modest in size, very full range, and made of hand-placed staves of honey-stained maple, with black accents.
Sonus Fabers are very natural-sounding, but plenty dynamic, and fairly time-coherent. many of their models come with adjustable height feet to adjust the slant of the front panel for best time coherence.
And I guess that's MY long-winded way of saying I also agree with Spencer Bank. |
Aerial 10Ts can spoil you because you can pretty much
plop them anywhere and get a friendly sound without
too much boom/sizzle/glare/shrieking/etch or other
audio 4-letter-words. Wilsons and others take a lot more care.
I mention this because I also had the 10Ts driven by the Pass X350 (nice liquid, rounded vocals, a bit small, but fine anyway).
If you're buying new,
you could try to audition some of the speakers that offer home trials where you pay only for shipping if you return them.
Watt Puppies are a completely different experience from the Aerials.
(I went from the 10Ts to the WP6s for a while.) |
Well in my search I'm going to audition Avalons in the next couple of weeks. An interesting turn of events is that I've found somebody that's really surprised me with his knowledge and understanding of speakers. We've been talking today about building a very efficient speaker system built just for me. |
Lots of folks can surprise us with knowledge and understanding of speakers. But without passion, resources, business acumen, manufacturing skills, patience and luck, they will just amount to one of hundreds who've gone out of business building speakers. If you go down that road, assume that 75% of your price has been gambled, because resale value is almost nil, regardless of the speakers' merits. That puts the achievements of Avalon, Merlin, Magnepan, Vandersteen, Thiel, et al in rarified air. Even often immortalized desginers like Albert Von Schweikert have folded their companies. IMHO, if you want custom work, redo your kitchen. Cheers,
Spencer |
I agree with Sbank.
There are many (but let's just say ten for argument's sake) companies that are at the top of the hill in speaker fabrication. You have already listened to a few and have found some don't suit your taste. How the heck are you going to design and build just one pair that you know the other companies haven't been able to build and reproduce music the way you want? Impossible.
Take the $16K and 'invest' it in Las Vegas. You'll have better luck and those odds suck. |
Amen to Fredericks comment. How on earth can you get a pair of custom speakers made in that price range and not know EXACTLY how they will sound in your room. Crazy.
By the way, you really should have a listen to the Sonus faber GUARNERI MEMENTO's for a delicious and seductive intro into music making at it's finest. For your room they would fit like a glove and look absolutely stunning in the gloss graphite finish. Then get a REL Studio sub to finish it all off. Bigger is not always better. You should of course find a dealer that you can work with and set whatever you are getting up and helping to find an amplifier that works with whatever it is you are going to end with. |
I have the Andra 2 with my Pass Labs X 350.5.
The Andra's have a dynamite piano black finish |
I second the recommendation on the Rockport Mira - was one of the three best rooms I heard at THE show in LA when I was there. It looks like an unassuming speaker and doesn't draw attention to itself - quite tasteful looking. Sonically, it is so capable and balanced in every way. It would probably be my choice in a sub $20k speaker.
Because of your strange room shape/size, investing in a room equalizer like the Copland, Rives or Parc would probably be a good way to allocate your budget, rather than spend it all on speakers. |
