Interesting that you mention his Mac mini.  When Op states that he use to be 100% vinyl, but is now fully digital, but likely relies on a computer for streaming.. something is wrong with my understanding of the situation.

@vonhelmholtz  No, I think you have a perfect understanding of the situation. 

@panzrwagn The MA 252 looks very promising. And used for $2,100.

This is doable just to buy it to demo. I will

read up on it and maybe give it an audition.

Thanx

T

Tubes don’t make it better ,you need to spend $3k used and up 

for say a 25wpc class A pass Labs  which is more power then it sounds .

it here is No good tube amps at $3k . Quality tube amps cost $$. No getting around it . Any quality tube amp has good transformers and chokes like Lundahl, Hashimoto,Tango for example. are C core transformers ,look at all Quality amplifiers , you will not find any Torroidal transformers in a high quality tube amp , Ayon, VAC , CJ, AR ,Luxman, Audio Valve,Jadis and  many more look at custom tube builders Like Radu Tarta, or Thomas Meyer, my point is Audiophile quality products cost $$.

I second the McIntosh MA252. I have mine sitting next to a Rogue Audio tube amp because I like to go back and forth between the two and sometimes I couldn’t tell you which is which depending on the music. I switched out the input tubes with Mullards and that seems to have made the difference. The only bad part is that the McIntosh is easily punchier in the bass and dynamics so sometimes my tube amp doesn’t look so hot. Yes it’s $4500 but it has a bunch of cool features for the price and 160wpc rated drives my Maggie’s easily. I’d suggest you audition one if you can swing $4500. 

Any Pass amp, Any Parasound amp designed by John Curl, the Atma-sphere class D amps. 

@tonydennison "..I am looking for suggestions on affordable SS that sounds as good as Tubes."

Aren’t we all. Best of Luck on that.

Plan on spending 5x the cost of your Quicksilver tube amps to try and get closer to "there" with solid state. I say this having an upgraded true Class-A 50w SS amp sitting here from Pass/Forte’. When you find affordable SS that sounds "as good as tubes", let us know. People have been trying and wishing for this, for decades.

You might fool yourself for a while with a used Firstwatt SIT-3 for a while, if you wanna try. They come up for sale every once in a while from the last try’er.

@vonhelmholtz  I use streaming services only to audition music. If I like a record enough to purchase I look DSD or as high a resolution I can find and purchase it. I am a DSD file guy. I look at streaming like someone in the 70's looked at radio.

Tube smoothness and musicality with SS detail and impact:

Atma-Sphere Class D. $5400 Killer!

Pass product sounds great and "tube" like imo and in my experience. Most of not al lPass runs in Class A for the first 10-30 watts, mimicking tube sound (and heat/inefficiency). 

I've always been curious about PASS, if I could swing a demo, I might consider it.

tonydennison

As above- Ayre, Pass Labs or Wells Audio.

Happy Listening!

@tonydennison 

Tony, I have a Margules ACRH3 hybrid integrated, it's 100wpc. It sounds fantastic and is very dynamic. Margules is a company from Mexico I had never heard of. Fact is they are one of the oldest makers of both pro and home gear in the world. There are some reviews of some of their pieces out there, most recently by S-file. I have mine in a second system now as I recently bought a Cary SLI80-HS. 

I've been thinking of putting my Margules up for sale, it's just too nice to be hidden away in my man-cave. 

Belles Aria $2500   Tough to beat at that price...

The Neurochrome Power Amp, with a Pass BK1 Pre-Amp, will be quite a pairing and the combination is something that will not encounter many to surpass it for the same monies outlaid and much much more.

@pindac 

Did you mean psaudio BK1 ?

I am looking for suggestions on affordable SS that sounds as good as Tubes.

Can you define what that means? What type of sound is that from the affordable tube gear that you’re trying to replicate with affordable SS?

Also, streaming using a Mac Mini sucks. If you haven’t experienced a good streaming setup you’re wasting your money on physical media and downloads. I’m making this statement based on personal experience. 

The mac mini isnt processing anything it is simply a NAS. The streams and or files go through audivana to psaudio dsd to the pre. What about that would suck? Are you saying audivana without any filters sucks, or the DSD Sr. Sucks, or just the mini flow through?. Or just, everything sucks?

And I cant explain to you what a nice tube amp sounds like, you will have to hear one yourself and then come up with a SS pre and amp for no more than $3000 which is what my QS’s cost new that sounds as good as that..

Thank you

T

Is your mac mini connected to the PS Audio DAC or the DAC is fed via Ethernet cable into its network card?

And I cant explain to you what a nice tube amp sounds like, you will have to hear one yourself and then come up with a SS pre and amp for no more than $3000 which is what my QS’s cost new that sounds as good as that..
 

I owned Rogue ST100 tube amp with Rogue RP1 and RP5 preamps - they sounded different with the same amp. I also owned Audio Research tube preamps. And every model sounded different as well.
I have no idea what your set up sounds like though, and apparently, neither do you. I’d be surprised if anyone can make a valid recommendation. You have people shooting in a dark. 

@audphile1 

I removed the network card, sounds better without it. The Mac goes into the DSD via a very nice USB.

Ive gotten some nice suggestions and I'm doing ok.

As to sound, I can say the trope words, Smooth Warm Rich Musical Deep Real Natural....That actually isn't much help I would think?

How can anyone ever explain....sound? Can't be done in reality.

Thanks

T

My example is via headphones. I sold my $7k RAAL VM-1a tube headphone amp which was glorious. I replaced that with the $800 Class A Schitt Aegir amp + Benchmark preamp, It was about 90% as good as the VM-1a.

I already had the LA4 preamp for my 2-channel setup, so I leveraged that for both 2-channel and headphones. For some preceptive, my CODA #16 amp on the same headphone setup is about 90% as good as the VM-1a on the phones. That is an amazing compliment for the Aegir to be equally good in this setup.

The Aegir is only 20 watts @ 8 Ohms. For my headphone needs it is spectacular. If I had a very easy to drive speaker, I would want to test it out with the Aegir.

BTW - I think it is impossible for any 2-channel amp to equal the VM-1a. There is an adapter needed for any 2-chanel amp to connect to the RAAL phones and none  is needed for the VM-1a.

@tonydennison I have wrote about the Neurochrome and Pass BK1, KB1 a few times over the Years.

The Pass Pre-Amp’ has a Korg Nutube incorporated which is a very modern version of a Tetrode Valve and is claimed to have a 30 000 hour usage life.

I know this Pre-Amp very well, I also am quite familiar with it produced as a non-standard build guise. I have a design of it built for myself and is awaiting to be completed when I make the bespoke casings being produced available.

As a standard build it held its own against very expensive Branded Pre-Amp's as a non-standard build, the cost difference between the Pass and the comparison Pre's make the idea of the Pass Pre-Amp' a no-brainer.

I have been demo'd the Neurochrome in an approx' £200 000 System in comparisons with Power Amplification getting close to £50 000 for SS, where both Branded Model SS and Valve Power Amp's were included in the Demo's.

A 211 Valve Power Amp was used at approx' £30 000.

There is absolutely nothing from my perspective to suggest the Neurochrome fell short in any way, and it was able to deliver the impression it was as relaxing and enjoyable to experience as any Valve Amp I have a familiarity with. 

I have been demo'd on a regular occasions the Pass BK1 + differing build guises > Neurochrome 86 and it is as enjoyed through recollection as when I heard the Soulution 525 > Neurochrome 286 used in demo's alongside the 525 > and much more expensive Power Amp's.     

Earlier you said your Mac Mini is used only as NAS. Now you’re saying it is connected to the DAC via USB cable.
NAS = Network Area Storage, would mean that your DAC would be accessing the data stored on Mac Mini by means of a network connection. And that isn’t how you have it all set up. 
So in the end, you are using the Mini as a streamer. Let me repeat what I said earlier - Mac Mini sucks as a streamer. If you like the sound of your current amplification, focus on upgrading your source. Your digital front end is far from optimized. 

OK you might think I’m crazy but the $750 Rega Io

this little amplifier is absolutely spectacular for the money!

It’s only 30 watts, but I can power fairly large speakers and just about any bookshelf because it has a lot of current. I loved mine. It does sound like tubes.

I owned the PrimaLuna EVO 400 preamp and power amp combo and really liked it. I wanted to go back to SS gear that had a tube sound.

That said, the PrimaLuna was replaced with a Luxman L509X integrated which came very close to a tube amplifier. Then, I decided to go back to separates and I currently have the Holo Audio Serene KTE preamp and a Parasound JC5 amp. The JC5 amp is a sweet sounding amp which comes close to a tube sound, but I haven’t heard a SS amp that sounded just like tubes. It may exist, but I haven’t heard one yet. I do highly recommend the Parasound JC5 amp because it’s a lot of bang for the buck. They can be found for a good price on the used market and I recommend you try to audition one if you can. The Music Room may have a few and they allow about 30 days to audition. That’s where I bought mine from.

Lastly, in my experience, it’s all about system synergy. So, the preamp will play a part in what the SS amp will sound like in your setup and of course, your speakers.

I’ve owned some decent tube gear over the years (Cayin, Rogue, Allnic, Van Alstine) and some nearly high-end SS stuff (Coda, Pass, Mac etc.) I’ve also auditioned some of the very high-end brands. Admittedly, I don’t have much experience with low power SETs but I do believe I’ve heard some of the best of what push-pull tube gear has to offer.

IME, the Yamaha MOSFET-powered integrateds (specifically the previous 1100/2100/3000 series, not as much the current series) come closest to the tube sound than so many desire. This isn’t to say they’re slow and mushy, rather they have nicely saturated tones, a lush midrange and expansive soundstage. On top of that, the bass extension (of the 2100) competes with some of the beast SS amps over $10K. They sound far more powerful than their specs indicate (especially the 2100). The preamp sections in these integrateds are worth their original retail price alone IMO. I realize this all sounds like hyperbole, but when you actually compare these integrateds back-to-back with other amps costing multiples their retail price, they are hardly outclassed. Typically, what I find is that some of the much costlier amps do one or two things a little better, but none have outperformed the Yamaha’s in every metric. That includes comparisons between the Yamaha preamp sections and separate preamps around and under $6K. Twice now I’ve preferred the Yamaha preamp sections to stand-alone preamps approaching $6K, one of them tube (Allnic) and one SS. I won’t mention the latter one because I still need to sell it. 😉

While the various speakers I’ve used in these comparisons (Revel, Spendor, Stirling Broadcast, Spatial, KEF, Magnepan, Audio Physic) are considered “mid-fi” by the standards of this community, they are speakers that have mostly punched above or well above their respective price classes. And I’ve heard what far costlier speakers can do in good rooms, thus I believe I have a decent frame of reference.

With regard to push-pull tubes, I have found there are quite a few competive SS offerings in addition to these Yamahas, such as Coda and Pass Labs. But for around $2K on the pre-owned market, I think you’d be very hard pressed to do better than a Yammie 2100.

I think it’s also worth mentioning that I am relatively young among these parts and my audiogram tests show I still have excellent hearing. I don’t say that out of ageism. I merely believe it’s relevant because I know of multiple audiophiles who come on here and other sites espousing the sound quality of various components, then elsewhere they reluctantly admit they rely on hearing aids or suffer from tinnitus.

Good luck with your quest.

@helomech 

"""I know of multiple audiophiles who come on here and other sites espousing the sound quality of various components, then elsewhere they reluctantly admit they rely on hearing aids or suffer from tinnitus."""

🤣🤣

I know what you mean. It explains alot of random comments.

Anyone that has been into performing music...going to live concerts or just listening to their rig at "Decent" volume levels for their entire life ( including the reviewers)....has some form of tinnitus. That has nothing to do with enjoying this hobby of ours. ....by listening to music, it actually masks some of that ringing.

@mbmi

Although I did tour for years, I always wore ear filters, which I still wear today when I play. I also rarely play the hifi to crazy levels. High levels destroy depth of soundstage. I have no tinnitus.

So, the vast majority yes, but I have taken care. Any youngsters out there should take heed; I have musician friends that did not and they suffer. In particular, a mando player I play with is half deaf with tinnitus. I tried to tell him even for the last ten years and one day, he was finished. He suffers terribly, not just in listening to music. He suffers all day every day with very loud screaming in his left ear.

Anyone that has been into performing music...going to live concerts or just listening to their rig at "Decent" volume levels for their entire life ( including the reviewers)....has some form of tinnitus. That has nothing to do with enjoying this hobby of ours. ....by listening to music, it actually masks some of that ringing.

IME it certainly does to a significant degree. I suffered from tinnitus for a while when I was vitamin D deficient years ago. But chronic tinnitus at an advanced age is a good indicator that the sufferer has significant overall hearing loss, likely from all those loud concerts you mentioned. Those with chronic tinnitus caused by loudness exposure are firmly on the road to eventual dependence on hearing aids. 
 

This pervasive notion that audiophiles who’ve suffered hearing damage due to exposure can judge component performance as well as anyone is simply flawed logic and completely false. 

Wells Audio Innamorata.

My tube experience is extensive; from Conrad Johnson; McIntosh, Dynaco, Allnic, Prima Luna, and many more. 

Pass Labs is the only SS amp that truly has the midrange bloom that sounds and feels like tubes. They’re Class A products such as XA25, XA60.8, and now I have X260.8 Monoblocks which are the best of what I have had. 
The Integrated; INT-60.8 is very much a tube like sound with out the hassle and can be bought used for $5600-$6500. It is the kink of company which answers the phone live and does things like answer your questions; send you free things; just because, and will fix your amp or remote control even when its clearly out of service; done it 3 times in my life. 

You can not and will not go wrong; superb build. 

@audphile1 

Recommendations please

Thanks

@audphile1 

And can u explain the issue with using the mac mini to store files and send those files to the dsd dac?

It is not as if I am using itunes. All apple processing and filters are bypassed with Audivana.

so where are the weaknesses?

than you

and please anyone else feel free to chime in

Cambridge audio  CXA 61 or 81. 

@tonydennison

I can’t recommend a SS amp that sounds like tubes. You’ve already gotten recommendations on good sounding amplifiers.

As to using mac mini as a streamer, which is what you’re doing, it’s not optimized for this task. You have OS running, background processes and Audirvana running on it processing music files from hard drive (hope it’s SSD). All that good stuff that’s happening inside loads up processor and memory, results in good amounts of heat and generates noise and interference that you end up feeding via a USB out that’s not optimized for streaming music. Add to that the noise generated by the internal power supply. All that junk from the Mini gets fed into your DAC. On top of it, your computer is probably close to your components and cables and is plugged into the same circuit. You are now dealing with EMI and the garbage that the Mini dumps back into the circuit that’s powering your system.

A much better solution would be to use the PS Audio DAC with its built in network card and stream using ethernet. Have your Mac Mini as far away from your system as possible. It and the PS Audio DAC would need to be on the same network.

When you’re using a dedicated streamer, you take advantage of the optimized USB and other digital outputs, cool running processors and internal isolation. You also get a better power supply that’s designed with audio in mind. But with the DSD DAC built in network card you don’t even need a dedicated streamer. 

I love my Dayens Ampino monos, and they definitely have a smooth sound. Check out their line. 
 

Also I’d look into Sugden, Audio By Van Alstine, and Linear Tube Audio (tube life on those is supposed to be looooong) 

 @audphile1 

"""A much better solution would be to use the PS Audio DAC with its built in network card and stream using ethernet. """"

The PSAudio Bridge sounds like poop. I can only assume you have never tried it and compared it to the USB. If this is true, you are sounding like a brochure warrior, just saying. All you would have to do is peruse the PSAudio forum to know the Bridge sounds like crap.

""But with the DSD DAC built in network card you don’t even need a dedicated streamer. ""

I do if I want it to sound better than the bridge and besides DSD files sound better. I only use Qobuz to demo albums and then I purchase DSD.

""It and the PS Audio DAC would need to be on the same network."""

Ok, check, thank you.

Thank you @subterranean6 

@audphile1 

Is this one of your started threads?

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/best-software-to-rip-cds-to-mac-mini

Best software to rip CDs to Mac (Mini)

""Years ago I used iTunes to rip CDs to my Mac Mini in AIFF format. What’s the latest and the greatest for this?

Now, I know what you guys are thinking, but in defense of @Audphile1 , if he is listening to CD’s, then yes, absolutely, PSAudios Bridge will sound fantastic and streaming will be the "best", but scrap the bridge and play DSD through Audirvana, bypassing Mac processing through a good USB and the sound will shock even the learned ears of Audiphile1.

OP

I am looking for suggestions on affordable SS that sounds as good as Tubes.

I think Exclusive audio (Japan) AMP-5521 int amp sounds as good as a tube amp.

Age (Lianne La Havas), Live recording

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgNVBSFHKgA

Wipe out (Surfaris); Drum by Sina

Alex/Wavetouch

Thank you @mihorn 

I will look into them.

I may have made an assumption about the PS Audio network card based on how good the one in my Bricasti M3 is. 

As to streaming, I have Tidal, Qobuz and an extensive library of ripped CDs and many DSD files.
 

In any case, given your attitude, thick headedness and sarcasm that prevent you from being receptive to a different perspective and ideas other than what you have convinced yourself of, I’m over and out. Enjoy the journey. 

@audphile1 

I was only responding to your condescending attitude from the get go, so...good riddens. 

 

tonydennison OP

280 posts

08-26-2023 at 03:47pm 

@audphile1 

I was only responding to your condescending attitude from the get go, so...good riddens.

“Good riddens” ha…that’s just another thing you got wrong. Good luck to you buddy. 

If you happen to read this far, Merrill Audio Veritas monoblocks are fabulous. They're my summer amps, and Allnic A-5000 monos provide some warmth during the cooler months here in NC. The Allnics are parallel SET 300B'S producing 25wpc. Both are used to drive either my Fleetwood Devilles or my Tannoy Kensingtons, both @ 93db & 8 ohms. 

The Veritas are 400wpc @ 8 ohms, 700wpc @ 4.

I absolutely love both amps. Do they sound identical? Of course not. My Manley Classic 300b SE/PP monoblocks (also two 300b's/monoblock) produce 24wpc, but don't sound as much like the Allnics as the Veritas. The Allnics have slightly more "coherence" to their presentation; the Veritas have a bit more "jump factor" (sound more energized) - which I like too! 

Whether it's the headroom/dynamic range afforded by its higher power rating or Merrill's use of the Hypex modules, I don't know. Ultimately, it's because Merrill designs MUSICAL products. IT'S THE IMPLEMENTATION, STUPID.

Speaking of stupid, the Veritas originally sold for $12K, and I bought a pair about 2 years ago for $3.2K. I created a "problem" with one mono, and sent both back to Merrill to be fixed & "refreshed". Merrill turned them around and two days later they were on their way back, and clothed in all new packaging. He charged me $99, which I think just covered the shipping! Merrill is "one of us"! I'll be hanging onto mine until they pry the remote out of my dead hands! 

@audphile1 

Hey now, you said you were over & out.

SS that sounds like tubes:

GaNFET amplifiers, Peachtree may be lowest priced, AGD, Atma-Sphere Class D, etc

FirstWatt- low watt SS amps by amp guru Nelson Pass 

Yeah, the 1st Watt SET3 looks intriguing.