Any Thoughts On These?

yermajesty - Thanks. I had ML Spires at one time and loved them. Had to let them go when I was out of work due to pandemic shut downs. Couldn't afford replacements now, but looking to rebuild...somewhat.

What actual model of ML's do you currently have?

I prioritize imaging above all else in my speaker system; and in my experience, ribbon tweets like ML’s serve that purpose better than most other tweeter designs I’ve heard. I’ve heard the MLs demoed and they certainly meet my requirements in that regard. But so do ML's EM-ESLs with their virtual line-source electrostatic drivers; and they ended up being my choice.

oldaudiophile
https://forum.audiogon.com/users/oldaudiophile
I’ve had some experience with Goldenear’s products but not their floorstanders. Most people speak highly of them . I’ll try and check them out thanks.

High-amp, the hunt never ceases. It just goes from vicarious to serious sometimes.

With regard to active speakers, have you spent any time with GoldenEar Tritons? The day I spent about 1.5 hours of seat-time with the ML Motion 60XTi, I actually A/B'd them with the GoldenEar Triton+2 and spent about the same amount of seat-time with them, as well. Unfortunately, the sound room I was in wasn't the greatest and the GE only had, I was told, around 20 hours play on them. The ML, I was told, had about 40 hours play. Power source was a Simaudio Moon 340 IX. You might want to give the GE Triton line a listen if you can find a shop with properly broken-in pairs and a proper sound room.

oldaudiophile - thanks for all the great info.

I once owned a McIntosh MA6600 and it didn't seem to make my Martin Logan Spires sing, so I can't really comment on it's sound signature. Sold it and bought a Coda CSiB (also tried a BAT VK-300x SE) both of which drove the MLs better than the MAC.

I have a bunch of different combo's swirling around in my mind, some as you have suggested here, but I keep coming back to the though of active speakers. No fuss, no muss, no cables, DSP. Maybe not forever, but in this particular house, it may just be the ticket. I just need to find some to demo. 

Heard some ATC 40s' (too big) and some Genelec 8331s' (too small).

As I said, the hunt continues!

Haven't heard the KEF R11s but did do about an hour of seat-time with the R7s. I've done a fair amount of seat-time with KEF, B&W and other British speakers, over the years.  The only British speakers I've ever spent serious seat-time with and liked, thus far, were Monitor Audio (i.e. Silver 300 and 500) but that's just me. As I'm sure you know, more than anything else in audiophile land, speakers are a very subjective choice. Different ears like different sound signatures and, of course, a lot depends upon your room dimensions, acoustics, component chain and musical preferences. Best is what sounds best to YOU! Your ears will tell you everything you need to know.

I currently have a McIntosh MA5200 in my main system and absolutely love it!  The only things I've heard around its price point in controlled auditions that could compete (IMHO) are the Simaudio Moon Neo 340 IX and a Luxman whose model number I can't remember. The Musical Fidelity M6si was very nice, too, but I heard that one in another shop with different speakers and different room acoustics. Not a fair shoot-out. Also did about 3 hours seat-time with a MAC MA5300 which is basically the same as the MA5200 but with the advantage of the option for an upgraded DAC. I heard the Simaudio Moon with the ML Motion 60XTi and that was REALLY nice!  If you can afford that combo I don't see how you'd be disappointed there. However, as with the Krell amp, you might want to shoot higher for speakers with that one. That Simaudio's current supply is outstanding! You might want to schedule some seat-time with Revel speakers for that one.

It's really fun helping other people spend their money!  LOL!  Good luck!

oldaudiophile, I had a stroke of bad luck with the Krell so back at square one. I d love to hear both the AA’s and the Revels but nothing around here locally to have a listen.
My wife and I did enjoy the sound of some KEF R11s with both the Krell 300i and a McIntosh integrated. 
The hunt continues, Thanks!

High-amp, I haven't heard that particular Krell but have spent time listening to the older Krell amps in the past. I've always been SUPER, SUPER impressed! Based upon my reading of the k300i, I have no doubt it should be able to make those ML Motion 60 XTi sing and then some! Did you get one with the optional DAC? With an amp of that quality & power, you might want to set your sights on higher quality speakers if your budget allows.  Not that the ML Motion 60 XTi are slouches but that is one terrific amp! Maybe Aerial Acoustics 6T? 7T? Something in the Revel Performa 3 line? Just sayin'. 

oldaudiophile - excellent advice. Thank you. I will have lots of space behind the listening area but I understand that the 60s need to be 24" off the back wall (to the front baffle) and 24" off the sidewall which will be tough to accomplish in my space.

decooney - thanks. Just an FYI:  I have secured a Krell k300i integrated for an amplifier.

The Motion 60 and 60xti sound [notably] better with a higher quality higher current amplifiers. Well designed AMT based speakers can sound truly amazing only with (select) heavyweight tube amplifiers. Bright sounding lower grade amplifiers need not apply here, they reveal what you send them.  

High-amp, just want to clarify a few things about the ML Motion 60XTi and speakers with AMT tweeters, in general.

With regard to room placement issues related to speakers with AMT tweeters, a few reviewers have noted they sound best when there is plenty of empty space behind the sweet spot or listening position. This was, indeed, my personal experience with the ML Motion 60XTi. If the sweet spot in your listening room is, for example, a couch with a wall directly behind it, I think this would quickly lead to listener fatigue. On the other hand, if your sweet spot has... say, 6’ or more empty space behind it, then I think that might be OK. I would factor this in to scheduled auditions of speakers like this.

With regard to other room placement issues (e.g. space between speakers and wall behind them; space between left & right channel; etc.), I would also factor that into scheduled auditions, as well. Basically, you want to replicate your listening environment as much as possible, including the equipment you’ll be using.

Is 12" from the back wall 12" from wall to back of speaker cabinet or wall to baffle, which I think is the more important measure. With that particular room placement constraint, you might want to concentrate on front or bottom ported speaker designs. One notable exception to this might be Monitor Audio. If I remember correctly, their Silver 500 and 300 are rear ported designs that do relatively well with that sort of room placement issue.

With regard to the power question, generally speaking, speakers of less than 8 ohm nominal load design, even efficient or sensitive ones, tend to perform best with amplifiers that can feed them adequate current. Watts of power and quality of current supply are different factors. The ML Motion 60XTi are, if I recall correctly, a 6 ohm nominal design and relatively sensitive. This will not be as much of a factor with them as with 4 ohm nominal load design speakers. If you are also in the market for amplification to go with these ML or, for that matter, any other speakers, you should also factor this into your auditions and research. For example: I recently auditioned a pair of Aerial Acoustics 6T speakers (4 ohm nominal load design) that just dropped my jaw! Fantastic speakers! I was ready to buy them on the spot after auditioning them with a 75 watts rated big MAC tube stack. However, after spending a little time listening to them with a 100 watts rated solid state MAC integrated (what I have) it only took a minute or two to hear that these gems really did best with a better power supply. They still sounded fantastic with the 100 watts rated MAC SS but you didn’t have to listen hard to tell they did best with a better power supply. Proper matching of the equipment chain is key.

Parasound A21+ 500wpc into 4 ohm speakers. Good base with this amp. I have two of them. For various reasons.

knighttodd - Thanks for the clarification and the tip on Amazon. I may have missed it, what SS amp do you run with the 60s?

Don't need 2  different Amplifier's, I was just describing the difference in sound between low power tubes and higher power as. You can order them on Amazon 30 day money back no shipping to return

I think someone said Crutchfield gave a 60 day trial period. A little more hassle shipping them back than dropping them off at the local Best Buy, but it sounds like it may be worth a try?

Make sure you burn in those Motion 60s for a solid two weeks [at least] before making hard judgment. For my HT setup, and tested with 2ch too for fun, my five Motions sound much more clear, transparent, with more accurate bass after having broken them in. Those mid-woofer surrounds are kinda stiff at first, and they do sound tubby at first, even the x-over caps and the AMT tweeter diaphragm settles down and focuses more a bit after some good solid play time. Day 15 and Day 60-90 were notably different on mine. Most people who return them do so before they are even broken in. Best of luck.  

adameos - I think that's what I'm going to do. Once I have secured the amp I will do a trial with BB. I think you're allowed 15 days with a small restocking fee if you return.
I was wondering, did you compare the KEF R11s against the ML 60s when you were at Best Buy and if so, your thoughts?

Although according to knighttodd it looks like I may need 2 amps for two different kinds of music though :-(

@knighttodd
Hooked my ML 60xti to my PL EVO 400 amplifier today. Listening to some Pink Floyd Division Bell. These things are fantastic. RME ADI2 Dac Fs. Can’t be better.

By chance were you running EL34 output tubes in your PL EVO 400 amp at the time of our test of the Martin Logan Motion 60xti speakers? If so I could see how that particular matchup could sound nice.

Forgot to mention earlier - while I have all Motion speakers in my other home theater system setup, they sound quite different now after some run-in time, drivers and surrounds loosened up, x-overs and all settled in. More transparent and no longer tubby sounding like they can be brand new. Using a 200 wpc x 5 class AB mosfet solid state amp to power them. They truly benefit when used with a capable amplifier.

Had a long listen to the 60xti at Bestbuy, comparing them to the more expensive B&Ws. In short, they are excellent; certainly better value for money than many other options in my view. If given a choice between the KEF LS50 powered and the 60XTi - I would take the latter without hesitation. I owned the LS50 for a while and missed that fundamental bass foundation, which the 60XTi will deliver with ease. The B&Ws were over 2k more and with careful listening one could here a tad more resolution / extension up top. I felt the 60XTi were more impressive in the lower registers. They are well built and of high quality. They do not sound bright at all if set up correctly - my friends are driven beautifully by a Parasound amp. That Air motion transformer tweeter is very good indeed. Bass is warm and full. The 60XTi will pressurize a good-size room with no problem. It doesn’t hurt that they are nice to look at. No point saying WAF because as we all know by now, even a 1ft x 1ft speaker is unacceptable to most wiiieeevvves arrgh!

knighttodd - OK, I'm jealous as hell!!!

luxmancl38 - there is a Magnolia inside the Best Buy in Bellevue WA that carries a decent array of speakers but not much in the way of amps, McIntosh seems to be their forte.
With a handle that includes luxman maybe you could give me the pros and cons of their amps? Definitely would need an A/B to drive the KEF's. I think their biggest class A only puts out 30 watts and is over $9K, outta my range.

Does Magnolia have any free standing stores anymore?

Hooked my ML 60xti to my PL EVO 400 amplifier today. Listening to some Pink Floyd Division Bell. These things are fantastic. RME ADI2 Dac Fs. Can't be better.

lemonhaze - It’s funny you mention Vandersteens. I live a couple hours north of Seattle and made the trek to Advanced Audio Systems in Tacoma.
My wife and I listened to both The Treos and the 3As with great expectations and all I can say is that they were OK. We thought the Magnepan LRS ($650) sounded better
We have listened to many speakers that have great hype on these forums but frequently come away disappointed. Those likes, Spendor, Harbeth, Devore, Klipsch, Monitor Audio, Dynaudio, Vienna Acoustics, Focals, B&W to name a few. We are really trying our due diligence to listen to as many brands as we can without getting into the web ordered, in house demos offered by many manufactures. Being afraid of the shipping costs & restocking cost that could add up if you wish to return them.
What we have liked so far, Legacy Signature SEs, which can be custom built as actives, but a big ticket to try at home, especially if you want to return them! Triangle Australe EZs, Larsen 6.2s were OK (also nice with the fact they can be pushed up tight to the wall, as we have limited space to work with in our new digs). And lastly, djones51 recommendation of KEFs. We like the R11’s which only need to be 9" off the back wall.
My wife also liked the Martin Logan 60 xti’s as she thought they sounded a little more lively that the smoother R11’s. But these need to be at least 24" off the back wall.

djones51 - thanks for the link & your advice.

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/test_loudspeakers.htm

Link explains the measurements which might help in looking at any speaker. I personally don’t care for Vandersteen’s but I wasn’t trying to suggest a speaker just give some perspective on the one you liked. Try to listen to some Vandersteen you may like them. If I were giving a suggestion on a passive speaker I’d give Revel and Kef a listen as well.
End of rant.

Yup, listening is paramount. I don't know what country you are in but strongly recommend you try and have a listen to Richard Vandersteen's range which are the polar opposites to the Totems and their ilk. The smallest of the offerings is the Model 1, has been around for decades and can be found cheaply second hand. 

The Vandies are not your usual box speaker, have rave reviews and are IMO under-advertised. I mentioned the Model 1 because if you are unable to audition you could buy a second-hand pair to get a handle on the Vandersteen sound and if you don't like them they could be resold with little or no loss.

The modern style of speaker is generally focused on detail, detail, and detail and musicality seems to take a backseat which initially sounds impressive but long-term listening is fatiguing. Another to consider is Tannoy, especially the old and very large ones.

Good luck with your quest

OP, just a little suggestion : ignore djones51's rant. The frequency response graph posted is fine, nothing to be too concerned about. The details of the measurement is not provided which is needed to make sense of what you see. The stated sensitivity is 88dB. Using this as a reference it will be seen that the response falls within the industry standard of +/- 3dB with the exception of the rise around 90Hz.

Also the response looks a bit spiky but without knowing what smoothing was used it can be ignored. There is much more to performance than a flat frequency response. Any competent speaker designer can flatten the response curve with the crossover by introducing more and more components which suck the life out of a speaker. You end up with a sound that is dynamically constipated. 

Appreciate too that when introducing the speaker into a domestic environment the response will be wildly different so insistence on a ruler flat response is pointless but looks good to people who shop by looking at specs. I prefer simple crossovers with the fewest parts which I find is always a better listening experience.

Of real concern is the impedance hovering around 3 ohms. This will demand an amp with lots of clean power, something that will double it's output into an impedance halved.
 Example: not all that common but is ideal.
 50W into 8 ohm
100W into 4 ohm
200W into 2 ohm

When Magnolia consolidated their independent stores and shoehorned them back into the corner of BestBuy stores, seems like they lost their mojo for 2-channel audio displays and demos.  Focus kinda went back to home theater and hand held gadgets. Not surprised they lost Sonus Faber.  

Like @hshifi said, if you know what you are looking for and they still have it or can get it from another store, may be some deals to be had on ML, SF.   

Hello,
I know that Bestbuy lost the Sonus Faber account but maybe there are some left over for a good deal. 

hshifi - Thanks. Dalis and APs are no where to be found here locally.

The last few lines were about the Martin Logins not the Audio Physics. The APs are awesome!

Hello,
I agree with DJones51. They do sound the best on tubes because it helps knock down the highs and squeezes in a little bit of the mids. Even on tubes they are missing the sweet mids. The treble fills the room in a good way meaning they disappear. The bass is boomy. If that is the sound you like. Maybe if you like to play rock a lot. I would try Dali speakers for that price range. If you can spend more try Audio Physics. They are fun to audition, but not fun to listen to for a few hours. 

decooney - noted & thanks 

@high-amp

I’d add "quality" amp first, then power (watts) comes second but still important. With 92 or 94db sensitivity speakers, I’ve heard 8-watt tube amps with big, quality, transformers make wonderful music. Excluding class-D, most of the really good class A/AB amps I’ve heard or tried for fun with the Motion series had high build quality and always weighty designs, in general terms always 40lbs (per mono amp) or above. The SS stereo amp i tested with these was 87lbs.  Big iron.  Opposite of these amps at 17lbs with boxes and transformers smaller than your fist. Again, general terms but keep an eye out for big quality iron.

See @hilde45 prior reviews on Motion 60xt speakers I think it was, I believe he tested with at least 60wpc tube amps and some other solid-state integrated amps 60-200wpc range. He was dealing with room conditions as I recall yet got a sense of how the different amps complimented the Motion 60. I’d always buy a quality 40-60wpc high quality tube amp with quality parts before a 100pwc amp with lower grade design and parts, fwiw. Opinions may vary on this. Demo at home is best if you can.

fuzztone - don't you mean each? Where are you shopping?

At $1900/pair the 60xt's are the best buy in class.

oldaudiophile - decooney lots of good details, thanks. I do not have much room to pull speakers out from the back wall. I'm thinking I'd like to set them & forget them at around 12" or so. 

knighttodd - as both the guys above state, sounds like the sound improves the more power you give 'em.

A lot of people say speakers first then front end, I' starting to think the other way around at this point.

Comparing the Motion 40s vs. Motion 60s, if you have a really good (fast & clean) subwoofer to go along with your system, try the 40s too. Remember, AMTs are super-duper-fast. Need a good fast sub to keep up.

With the smaller mid-woofers and smaller AMTs in the Motion 40s, they sound a bit more neutral and a tad less tubby on the bass using a mid-fi grade amplifier. If you step up like @knighttodd has running a higher current/quality amplifier to control the woofers, either ML40s or ML60s "can" sound even better. The room size/shape and speaker positioning matters too of course. Your situation may vary.

The Motion 40s are (92db sensitivity) and Motion 60s (94db sensitivity) and I did some testing with a small 10-watt triode tube amp for fun. While they sounded nice and smooth, good midrange, these Motion series speakers do appreciate a bit more power and control using a more capable amplifier (think big transformers in the amp) to perform their best.

Running standalone speakers only, I liked the Motion 60s only when paired with really good amplifier(s). Need not buy the Motion 60s (for 2ch audio) if you re only going to run a lower grade HT receiver, its a waste of money for the 60s. They deserve a lot more. With a great main stereo amplifier, and paired with a great subwoofer the midrange and mid-bass on the (lower model) Motion 40s also sounded really nice, neutral, nothing stood out too much. A few buddies preferred the Motion 40s in a smaller room setting too.

I did not get a chance to hear or try the Motion 60 speakers with a pair of really good 100wpc push-pull tube amplifiers. Tried the 40s with them though, and they sound great. I design and build my own AMT speakers for fun the past 3+ decades, and believe there is even more potential to the ML Motion 60s given a chance. Step up on the front-end, power amplifier(s), and the Motion 40 or 60s can sound very nice. Best of luck

@oldaudiophile btw, I worked at ESS early 1980s :)

I've done serious seat-time with the ML Motion 60 XTi in two different shops with, obviously, different listening rooms & acoustics.  Both listening rooms, however, were somewhat similar in dimensions.  Here's my take and please remember this is all, of course, IMHO:

First shop used a 60 watt NAD integrated amp whose model number I can't remember.  Room dimensions were something like 17' X 20' with 7' ceiling.  Kinda like a conventional living room with carpeting, bookcases, sheetrock construction, etc.  I think the NAD might have been a Class D design.  The ML sounded very nice but I don't think that NAD had enough power for them and I don't think it was the right match for 6 ohm nominal load speakers like that, even though those ML are relatively sensitive.  The money chair or sweet spot in that room was about 9' away from the ML.  The ML were about 6' apart and the wall behind the sweet spot was about 3 or 4 feet away.  This would make for around 2 or 3 feet behind the ML front baffles and wall behind them.  IMO, speakers with AMT tweeters need more room behind the sweet spot or listening position.  A friend and I both got significant listening fatigue after about 30 minutes or so of concert level volume and a little less.

Second shop used a Simaudio Moon NEO 340IX.  This is one outrageously and hellaciously nice amp!  The ML in this shop only had, we were told, about 40 hours play time on them.  Probably not enough but they still sounded really, really nice.  In fact, my friend and I thought they sounded a hair better than a pair of GoldenEar Ttriton 2+ we A/B'd them with.  However, to be fair, we were told those GE only had about 20 hours play time on them.  Probably not nearly enough.  The listening room was a little larger than the first one but chock full of other speakers & components behind the speakers we listened to.  It, too, was like a conventional living room.  The money seat was about 9' from the speakers but had about 12 to 14 feet to a wall behind the sweet spot.  The ML and GE were separated by about 6'.  The wall behind their front baffles was about 6' away but, again, just chock full of other speakers and components.  Not the greatest set-up but I believe these ML definitely benefitted from the space behind the sweet spot.  No listening fatigue at all after about an hour & a half to two hours at concert level volumes.  I was impressed by both speakers but definitely gave the nod to the ML.

My advice:  if your listening room doesn't have at least 6' (preferably more) of empty space behind the sweet spot, you might like something else, like Revel Performa3 F206.  That's what I bought after auditioning somewhere around 18 different pairs of speakers and they sound even better in my living room set-up than they did in the shop I bought them from.  I also liked the PSB Imagine T2 and the Monitor Audio Silver 500 but the Revel were just jaw-droppers!

Because of my experience with AMT tweeters (not my first, BTW-I demoed the old ESS AMT back in the day) I've always wondered if Beryllium tweeters might need similar room placement (i.e. lots of empty space behind the sweet spot).  Anybody have any experience with this?

+2 decooney, I have a pair hooked to Parasound A21+ to me they sound great. I also had them mono locked to my other A21+ 1000 watts per amp were amazing. But I prefer stereo separation. Try them, plenty of places to buy with free to little return fees.

Great comments & advice from all. I've had a listen in-store but as pointed out here "There's no place like home" Should I go this route there are many options such as Crutchfield or even Best Buy to give these a try with the option to return them.

+1 decooney the ML's sounded clear and coherent when set up in my house.

Also good point about AMTs being implemented in other speakers. Elac and Wharfedale, et. Still, those ML's can be found for good prices and the build quality is excellent. 

Agree that auditioning is important but that can take time and/or be hard to do depending on where you live.

https://emotiva.com/collections/loudspeakers/products/airmotiv-t2-loudspeaker-pair

extremely underrated speakers, if you run them with a pair of good monoblocks, you’ll have one of the better deals on the market today.
These were suggested to me by one of my friends that has demoed quite a lot of stuff out there, and is really big into the tradeshow scene. Again, as with anything else... you have to listen for yourself.

@high-amp 
re; Magnolia?!@%  Ignore all replies from anyone who walks into a BestBuy-Magnolia store and comments on the sound of ML Motion 60s, 40s when using their typical amp and speaker switching board setup. Its garbage, truly impacts the sound of the speakers.   I run them in a tertiary home theater system and helped a few friends with them.     

The ML Motion 60 and 40 AMTs and mid-woofers CAN perform and sound much nicer at home with a quality amp, source, cables setup in a decent room.  Tested mine on multiple class A/AB SS and Tube, PP, Triode amps for grins.  Gotta take 'em home and try them to know, setup matters.

I've probably mentioned this many times before. Martin Logan seemed like an interesting choice at the time they first appeared on the market. Depending on what style of music you prefer and the electronics driving them.
Since then, there are literally dozens of new or improved designs available, many of which may provide a more pleasurable listening experience, driven by numerous choices of electronics and source material. Many may be a better sonic fit to you listening space.
I would agree with other writers. And, with a little effort, I think you can do better.  But I'm not going down the old "recommendation path". I would not be in a hurry. Create a list of possible choices and pricing. Audition as many as possible in an environment as close to your own room size and configuration. Don't be afraid to ask to have someone position the speakers you are auditioning, as close to the way you would need to set them up at your place. Take some suggestions that may help optimize your home setup. Somewhere along the line, I suspect that you will find the right speakers that "ring your audiophile bell".

Ozzy how is the escargot? 

AMTs' strike again...*S*
Nothing like an effortless high end....;)

Haven’t heard the 60’s but brought the 20’s and 40’s into my space for side by side (thanks Crutchfield)...

20’s were ok but the 40’s are spectacular, IMO...

As for the LSA-20, they appear to be yet another box speaker with yet another soft dome tweeter

Fortunately we don’t listen to appearances.  You might want to read up on some of the reviews and who designed them before just going simply on appearances.  Member Terry London bought the review pair after reviewing them for Stereo Times, but yeah, just another box speaker.