Bad Experience with Conrad Johnson

I live in the area and when I passing by their location the business looks kind a shady, looks like some garage establishment without even company name signs.

I ran CJ equipment for more than 25 years.  Still have a 2275 in the closet (with factory box) for a spare if I have to service one of my amps. Never had a problem with service other than at times it was rather slow.  I even delt with Jeff when he was a tech.  Always very personable.  Of  course things sometimes change when you become the boss.  I think what's missing here is the tone of the conversation(s).  I think if the OP was honest, he may not have been the most pleasant person to deal with either.

@yoyoyaya it seems hopeless but I will try: they are NOT selling shipping. They are selling amps. Putting margin on shipping is not a thing*. If everyone put a margin on everything they are not selling, just their product or service was once affected by, the price of a candy bar would be a 1000 dollars.

*handling is a thing

@grislybutter. Your grasp of business economics and syntax is impressive. To be precise, my reference to margin and selling referred to the boxes - which the company was offering to sell to the customer.

OP purchased 10yr old used equipment then expected the company to drop everything so they could assist him.  But the company provided a solution that may lead to better longterm performance at a lower price.  7dj8 and 6h23p are cheaper, better sounding, and last longer than 6922 variants.   This information was conveyed for free.   

Heavy Duty custom size boxes cost money and paperboard prices keep going up.  Insurance, fuel costs and shipping company wages continue to rise…  But corresponding sale prices should remain at 2019 levels….

It is easy to pack a delicate item with sufficient protection to withstand the rigors of shipping   All that is needed are careful thought and time.  
 

I have shipped heavy, glass faced McIntosh equipment to the other side of the world, using my packing materials.  I have shipped 50lb speakers half way around the world, using my packing materials.  I have shipped numerous tube amps to just about everywhere, using my packing materials.   I have experienced just a single incident of shipping damage.   Large, fragile items can take up to an hour to carefully pack, and most items take abt 30min.  I have constructed a wooden case shipping case for a McIntosh MR 71 tuner, then packed the case and made it ready for shipment in abt 45 min from start to finish.  I have less than zero woodworking or construction skills.  

The OP purchased used but wanted a new and sealed purchase experience without paying for the extra support.   
 

Sorry, but no one is entitled to money for nothin’ and chicks for free.  
 

Sorry, but no one is entitled to money for nothin’ and chicks for free.  

How about those who play the guitar on the MTV?

Not all boxes and packing are created equal.

A proper package is designed to protect the product from damage and is subjected to engineering laboratory shock and vibration testing prior to approval.

Conrad Johnson uses mostly heavy duty double-walled boxes and die-cut polyethylene foam inserts which can be quite expensive to manufacture.

Further, CJ does not set shipping costs. These are set by UPS, Fedex, and others who have gone to a formula called "dimensional weight" for assessing cost.

This is a tricky way of saying that whether a package is large or heavy, the shipper will pick whatever is most favorable to them. So a light, empty box that is large costs basically the same as a box with an amp inside.

The CJ box and shipping prices are a reflection of the lab costs, manufacturing costs, warehouse storage costs, order processing costs, and shipping costs. So sorry, they are not cheap or free. But the proper box will insure damage-free shipping and that is a good thing.

Thx,

A Slater retired Packaging Engineer

OP, you weren't a CJ customer, you were a CJ user. Big difference. When you buy used, you take your chances, you are buying the seller (who probably forgot to tell you it was a noisy preamp).

@lion

+1

thanks for chiming in alan (a longtime, experienced and dedicated audiophile, with whom i have bought/sold with in the past several times), and good to see you posting here

@ghasley

+1 as well on your comment

only thing i would add is if the correct tube is used, the et3se isn’t noisy... as usual if one is properly informed and knows what one is doing, desired results are achievable

The cost of the boxes likely reflects the true cost to C-J. 
 

The company has changed a bit from the early days (I owned an MV-75A-1 until I sold it this year), now catering to the highest income 1%, but my interactions over the years with Lew, Bill, Bill, and Ed showed them to be outstanding individuals who cared far more about sharing their enthusiasm for music reproduction than anything else. I don’t have experience with the new owner, but have heard lots of positive comments. BTW, I live a few miles from the factory, and it’s in an upscale industrial park. Very nice.

The most important aspect of this thread concerns the preamp design that “eats” tubes. It’s precisely why I didn’t consider purchase of an ET-5 or ET-7 from this series when I replaced my preamp from a few years ago. If I had known of the ability to substitute other tube types, then my decision might have been different, as these are VERY nice sounding preamps. 

The OP is angry because he doesn’t like the way CJ designed the product he purchased. How is that CJ’s problem?

As everyone should already know, it is both the weight and the size of the box that affects the shipping cost, plus I'm sure CJ adds some of their overhead cost into the transaction. I recently contacted a speaker manufacturer about buying empty shipping cartons and after he told me what the actual cost would be, we both agreed it wasn't practical. It is perplexing to me that with so much more important stuff to talk about and share, we still find ourselves going down pointless rabbit holes where at the end of the day, it's a "yes" or "no" decision on the part of the individual. Caveat Emptor.

Sad to hear this from CJ, well is it still CJ?  I had CJ gear for years. I have talked to Bill and Lew a few times over the in the past. They werr always very helpful.  I have moved on to Pass Labs, but still very sad to hear.

@yoyoyaya I agree on that with you. They are entitled to put whatever margin they want on the box, and the customer will decide. 

All I am saying is to label things correctly (e.g. shipping $35, handling $35)

@vdotman 

I agree with you. This subject has been talked to death, and it's time to bury it. Everything has been said and repeated twenty times.

Sorry you had issues with CJ. I own current CJ gear, preamp and amp’s running 6922’s but have never had noise problem or eating NOS tubes. Anytime I call they always answer phone or will call you back, maybe I’ve been lucky I’ve always had good luck with there service over the phone.

I always keep my boxes. If you look at the quality of their boxes which are double boxes and very nice skeleton foam inserts I don’t think asking price is that terrible.

I had to buy a Linn LP12 box last year which I thought was high but wouldn’t ship without it.

So you bought a 10 year old product used. Then you expect the manufacturer to treat you like you bought it new? And they did! The old owners designed it , you’re bitching at the wrong people. I’ll even bet you weren’t real pleasant either. 

What a crybaby, sour grapes, ’me me me’ post. Those two pieces have been around for quite some time. There are ample reviews and descriptions online. I’m not sure where you purchased your pieces, I’m assuming they were vintage or used and the immaturity of expecting CJ to jump through hoops because you, with your engineering prowess and extensive business acumen, called looking for a bargain to solve your problem. You can buy the boxes Big Spender...