Best turntable under $4000

Ditto VPI ++++

Serenity now!

A lot of childish posts here…geez.  

@whart, yes it does. It is modeled after the original thorens 150. Great reviews, I think I’m grabbing one. Really don’t need it, as I already own the Avid ingenium, Music Hall 7.3, and a Technics mk7, not to mention a fully auto thorens td240-2, and a vintage Lenco L90.

My Technics mk7 is a pretty nice turntable for the money, and fun to use. I pretty much got it for half price, so I mean to me it was a steal. I got a shure m97xe on it with the stabilizer brush, pretty cool and retro looking. That Shure is going for outrageous money nowadays on ebay and the like. 

"Or hadn’t you noticed support for " no I have not, I feel the pro-Technics comments are a lot more vehement as if they know the truth like no one else. They are also more condescending about other brands. 

I would take issue with many of your suppositions, but there would be no point. Every major brand has its advocates on this forum, and questions such as the one posed by the OP are bound to elicit support for each of those brands. Or hadn’t you noticed support for SOTA, Rega, Linn, Thorens, and you name it, which predictably pepper all threads about choosing a turntable or what turntable is best? Perhaps you don’t notice those other sets of “fanboys”, because you’re so obsessed with your Technics phobia.

Why not make a constructive suggestion for the OP, instead of wallowing in your bias against Technics?

@lewm

Why use the term "fanbois"? Because every time and I do mean every time turntables are discussed, Technics owners come out of the woodwork and say how wonderful the brand is, vintage or new and basically intimate that you would be stupid buying anything else.

They ignore the issue of average to mediocre arms, (hence my comment re a hi end cartridge) and they ignore the cogging issues in vintage Technics. Yes you may well be able to fit a 4 point 9, a Reed or a Schroeder arm to a Technics, but then you would not have a Technics would you?

They also ignore the fact that there is better value available amongst other brands, many of which these fanbois have never even heard of.

@audioguy85 - that looks like the Thorens from the early '70s. Those were nice tables. 

The Thorens td 1500 sub chassis turntable with included Ortofon 2m Bronze cartridge mounted in a SME headshell. It’s getting some great reviews, Analog Planet, HiFi News, .....it also won the EISA best product Award 2022-2023....it is $2999 in the US, however it can be bought for under 2K from Europe, for example Thomanns.....

 

I have owned a Technics SP 10 since 1973 and it still worked but the power switch was bad. I had Bill Thalmann go over it, do the Krebs mod, a reasonably priced plinth and eventually installed a Kuzma 4 Pt. 9" arm on it. I can't remember what the TT cost me new, back in the day, but it was in 1973 dollars! Long since amortized. Thalman's work on the table wasn't costly. (and perhaps you don't do the Krebs thing). This set up runs in my vintage system in the parlor in a Quad 57 set up powered by tubes. It speaks to the longevity of the product, its reliability. (It isn't even the more desirable mk ii or mkiii, but the early model, which does not have the torque, motor or platter of the later iterations. Still, my sunk cost was minimal). 

I have also owned a couple Kuzma tables, the Reference (which is self-isolating) with a Triplanar and the XL with the Airline. Franc Kuzma does nice work and supports his products, has a great distributor in the U.S. (The XL is a pain to isolate and is very heavy- not suggesting it but that little pipe bomb table he makes-- not sure how well it isolates--with the 4 Pt. 9" arm would be a nice combo--probably over your budget). 

Everybody has their own personal take on TTs-- it is very hard to compare them in the real world. I would at least try to get some hands-on time with the tables and arms you are considering so you can judge the ergonomics and try to find out how effective their isolation is. 

Good luck, I've found that if you make the right choices, this stuff can potentially last a lifetime with some routine maintenance and/or refurbishment. 

IF I was to buy a Technics, It would be the SP-15, factory wood base, BP500 Base, two arms: straight fixed cartridge, S with removable headshell.

SP-15 is 3 speeds, SP-10 is 2 speeds

Here’s one with black base, I would wait for the wood one to show up

 

Here’s the wood base, with a different arm

 

SP-15 specs are equal to the modern ones.

My first turntable, bought from Sam Goody with wedding money, 1967. Along with Fisher 200T trans receiver and AR-2ax speakers. I just restored a pair of AR-2ax. Were for the basement, but sound so darn good I put them in my office, and bought a second pair to restore for the basement. Compact 3 way with two level controls which I am a big fan of.

Anyway, the TT

 

 

Just put this on my watchlist!!!

 

 

I have the Mofi Ultradeck and have been very happy with it.  I pair it with Hana ML cartridge and Herron phono preamp.   It doesn't sound dull as commented by some member here.  It might look dull, but I don't find it sounding dull.  It is dead quiet and very musical.   I don't have a lot of experience with expensive turntables, so it's hard for me to compare, but I do think the Mofi is a great turntable at its price point.

The Mofi Ultradeck looks better in person than in pictures.  At first I wasn't attracted to it because it doesn't look 'exotic' like some of the other brands, but decided to give it a try after reading mostly positive reviews.   Now I really dig the all black look.  You can save yourself some money if you don't go for the Fender version.

Hope this helps.  Good luck!

Gold Note, in Canada

 

 

Yamaha, Gigantic and Tremendous, listed today also. Anyone know about them?

 

 

I find this tempting, add your own arm and cartridge, just listed today, manual only

 

 

Luxman site

https://www.luxman.com/product/detail.php?id=8

 

A vote for Gold Note, love my Mediterraneo, built and weighs as much as a tank. 

I lost track of turntables long ago, but do remember that the Technics Direct Drive tables were considered wonderful back in the day (SP-10?) Sorry, I forgot the details.

There is one for sale for $595 on one of the audio selling sites...sorry, can’t remember which one, but if I were looking, I would buy it. It needs an arm and cartridge, so you still get to choose them.

The funniest TT information I see today is Thornes tables for thousands of dollars. We sold them for $260.00, I believe, and they were BOUNCY and had some feedback issues back then. If customers are spending thousands for them today, I would guess they improved them greatly. Back then, even though they were highly rated--Linn-Sondek was considered better in those days--we never thought much of them.

(Also love that Shure is selling their tonearm for thousands these days. Back then, because they had a removable head shell, they were considered too heavy and clunky at $150.00) Straight-arms were thought to be the holy grail, but evidently no one has figured out how to do them in a way to vault them to the top of the list (yet).

Cheers!

Laoman, excuse me. You insult those who like “Technics” TTs, of one kind or another, first by referring to them as “fanbois “, second by referring to the brand as a “DJ” brand, third by stating the Technics advocates have “tin ears”, and finally by inferring that mounting a Kiseki or Phasemation cartridge on a Technics tonearm would be so gross a mismatch as to be improbable. You wrote all these things without ever specifying which Technics turntable adherents you intend to insult; or are you lumping all of their efforts, from the SL1200 to the SP10R in the same category? So it is no wonder that some take offense.

Who is Ace? How did this "Ace" insult Technics fanbois? Is it not obvious that there are many many tts far better than Technics, yet you always get the same people pushing the DJ brand.Lets also get a little serious here. Is there anyone who would put an expensive MC cartridge on a Technics with the average arm? What happens if eventually the op wants to try one, say a Kiseki or Phasemation? Are you then suggesting he sell the Technics? I would have no hesitation in using one of these on a Kuzma.
The op has set aside $4000. The Stabi S and the basic Kuzma arm fall into that range. As far as an isolation platform is concerned, a thick cutting board works admirably if you think you need one. You don't really because it is a very stable platform.

Technics insults not required Ace.

The Kuzma products are uniquely capable and excellent sounding.

A base model Stabi S with basic Stogi S CE Tonearm is easily over the limit without even mentioning the highly required isolation platform typically used.

A few spins of the Kuzma Stabi S and you will wonder why the Technics fan bois have tin ears.

@cpdkee 

a few spins of the Technics G with a kick ass cartridge and you will quickly forget how it looks because the sound quality is amazing and a perfect match to your rogue amplifier.  

a few spins of the mofi fender and you will quickly forget how cool it looks because the sound is dull and lifeless and a very poor match with your system.  

Three thoughts

1.) Direct answer to your inquiry IMO is the Direct Drive Technics 1200G

2.) Your Fluance 85 has better DC motor control (optical sensor servo) than any Clearaudio offering up to the Ovation (not including the AC motor Emotion or Marantz equivalent)

3.) A Grado high output would really speak to the most linear performance of your Rogue internal phono stage.

Happy hunting 🎶

just having fun looking

a bit over budget, and a different look, manual

 

similar style

 

another

 

many VPI lovers

 

heavy looking black on wood base

 

includes marble base

 

 had one, a beast, awesome bass, but, very sensitive to vertical vibration

 

back to visible works look

 

oracle

 

some wood

 

ok, lunch time

jdougs

I’m a big fan of vintage, my TT is JVC TT81 in 7 layer plinth. Quartz DD. The electronic controls of that QL-Y66F would scare/deter me.

I wonder what construction the plinth is? And, one I saw said ’rosewood veneer’. Many were fake wood wraps, nice appearance, but the distinction should be noted. Anyone know if these were real wood veneer or wood look wraps?

..........................................

If OP or anyone is considering assembling a solid vintage TT setup, mine, 3 arms, ended up costing 5K total: CP-p2 seven layer plinth, wood veneer (figured walnut I think, stained to appear rosewood); TT81; 100/120 transformer; 3 arms and 2 cartridges (3rd arm using existing cartridge). No auto functions. 

JVC QL-Y66F with a good cartridge sounds great and will still allow for safe buzzed listening.  

here’s the thorens 1601 gemoody mentioned, open box, $3,100. free shipping

leaves some money for cartridge!

dealer says "Free Lifetime Technical Assistance". Anybody have any experience with seller?

 

if, like cameras, open box gets maker’s full warranty, check with the seller if tempted.

Kuzma Stabi S

good question. I think DJs have different requirements than introvert audiophiles.

I think Linn would pass most of those (DJs').

Can you imagine if DJs used Linn?

Thorens 1601 gets semi-auto

and, OP mentioned semi-auto controls, I find and post used ideas

what new TT have semi-auto options?

my point is that the OP mentioned appearance as part of his considerations. They certainly are for me, and I would never buy a Technics based on not liking it's look.

It's easy to say "... can't go wrong with, ... nothing better than ... technics ..."

Knowing OP likes wood, rounded corners appeal (not features found in Technics models) what other TT's are also great choices???

@lewn

I could. I would be very pleased to have one.

It’s just not in my top 3. Looks matter to me, I am shallow.

Let me get this straight, grisly, you can’t bring yourself to use a Technics TT because DJs use or once used their bottom of the line SL1200, never mind that the 1200G series are better in every way and not to mention that probably hundreds of thousands of audiophiles have happily  used and do use the old SL1200 in home systems, not to mention also the SP10 mk2 and mk3 or the SP10R that each rivaled the best TTs available in their day and at present?

@elliottbnewcombjr It's not about liking it. I can like it all I want it's still DJ equipment. If DJs used Linn, it would be Linn. Looks, quality, performance aside.

Systemdek IIX with a Jelco SA-370H tonearm.  It may be vintage gear from the mid 1980's but you'd have to spend a lot more money to exceed its performance.  Especially when considering the law of diminishing returns in this hobby.   You can purchase a nice IIX for under $500,  a NOS SA-370H for under $400 (eBay has a few at the moment),  If you're handy and can install the arm yourself your investment is under a grand.  Lots of good cartridge choices for under $500 these days.

Just some food for thought, since your total expenditure would be around $1500, and the other $2500 can go towards albums.  

 

@jasonbourne52 , and they were massive and good looking. I remember lusting after one when I was a kid. 

what if you don't like the looks of the DJish Technics?

then recommend what???

 

 

Technics is like BMW in Eastern Europe. Mostly gangsters drive it so it's associated with them. Technics is a DJ equipment so it seems foreign to a lot of audiophiles

@brskie : the Atma-Sphere 208 is a modded Empire 208. I have a stock one and even in original form is still a top-notch performer! Empire made excellent belt-drive TT’s - now sadly forgotten!

@cpdkee 

Ralph Karsten (@atmasphere), one of the world's leading amplifier designers, posted this recently:

•  

Posted October 25, 2022

The Technics SL1200G is a surprisingly good performer for the money.

It is one of the most speed-stable turntables made at any price. Its also mechanically dead, something vital to any high performance turntable to be competitive.

Its main weakness is the platter pad which is rubber. The function of the platter pad is to absorb resonance in the vinyl which can talk back to the cartridge in real time. If you can turn down the volume all the way in your system and easily hear the cartridge as it tracks the LP, then you know you have a problem with the platter pad. It will be a lot harder to hear the cartridge tracking if the platter pad is doing its job. The best I've run into is made by Oracle which is about $300.00. To use it properly it has to be bonded to the platter (using its permanent sticky backing), which means the three mounting screws that fix the platter to the motor cannot be installed, but this will not affect performance.

The second weakness of the SL1200G is perhaps the tonearm, but it more than keeps up with many high end tonearms (IMO certainly better than any Rega)! Its also a good match for the Hana cartridges FWIW. Setup, of course, is everything! Because the arm is properly wired with the right interconnect cable it can be run balanced 😃

The strength of this machine is the various damping systems it uses. The plinth and its subchassis form a very rigid mount for the motor and arm, and resonate at different frequencies and thus rob energy from each other thru mechanical coupling (they are bolted together). Rigid and dead are paramount to any good plinth. In addition, the platter is damped and there are two additional damping systems that form the base of the machine. Its well thought out and not a revamp of the older SL1200s you can find on craigslist. Its a new design from the ground up.

I designed and built a turntable 25 years ago (Atma-Sphere model 208) and it has performed well against machines well above its pay grade. Its more expensive than the Technics but I think the Technics is a better machine.

It is possible to install an improved arm on the Technics. I have a Triplanar which should be mounted on mine soon.

Enjoy the journey,

Bruce

I think your safest bet is Clearaudio - as in no red flags. I like the Gold Note's killer looks.  If you are looking for upgradability and reliability, Linn is a great brand too.

I appreciate all of the feedback. I realize that "best" is subjective to opinion. I will re-frame my question. Do any of these tables have red flags? Is one mechanically superior to the others? I am very attracted to the Mofi, but am I paying for the fender logo and it is actually an inferior turntable? I am looking for opinions so I can get my choices down to two tables to demo.

Thank you all.

Thorens TD1600. @mijostyn is dead nuts on with this one, and I rarely agree with anything he posts.  

Technics 1200 G. nothing else comes close.

you have to break down the functions of a table and form becomes low on the priority list (although the G is not bad IMHO, certainly not a deal breaker).

1) Immunity from vibration -CHECK-. No wall mounts or aftermarket isolation devices needed) 

2) Speed stability and accuracy.  -CHECK-  People underrate the effects of truly accurate speed accuracy and stability.  The G's accuracy and stability give you peace of mind and a more energetic, dynamic sound. 

3) Cartridge support and adjustment- CHECK- The G magnesium tonearm can support the best cartridges money can buy.  

4) Reliability. - CHECK- Technics decks are bullet proof and last a lifetime.  

5) Ergonomics.  - CHECK- Operation controls, cartridge installation, cartridge and tonearm adjustments are simple and straightforward.  

Get a Thorens TD1600 and the 2M Black. Because it has a proper isolation suspension and a beautifully designed tonearm it will out perform the other turntables you mentioned. It is handly the best value in a less expensive table. The next step up would cost you $10K.