Oliverben5672
I went through the same process as you. For years I read reviews and followed blogs hoping to get insight and focus on what to get to upgrade my 45 year old gear. I ordered with excitement a streamer amp and was highly disappointed. The 45 year old stuff trounced it. I sent it back. I live in Minneapolis and decided to go to Stereoland in Bloomington. It was the best move I could have made. After years of dreaming what system would sound best with my DYI speakers. The owner Bill catered to me. I felt honored, taken care of with him selecting some speakers on the bright side like mine. He graciously spent an hour with me in a private room. This was HiFi heaven! I first listened to a Primaluna
EVO 100. I loved it! Everything I heard was crisp, accurately reproducing dynamic enjoyable, impressive sound. I was amazed a little tube amp could sound so good! Then, the real test. How would this bottom of the Primaluna integrated amp stack up to a Hegel 390? Both sounded great on the same speakers, same room, same music. No contest! The Primaluna was much more defined in all categories and had more slam, detail, accuracy. Excitement smoothly reproducing all aspects of music. I was shocked. Final test, at home. Absolutely stunning! These speakers sounded great with a Shitt Freya, Vidar combo borrowed from a friend. A tough combo to beat! In my home, in my room on my speakers it was no contest! I bought the EVO 100, no sub woofer needed. Nothing had come close to this little David that slew giants. I highly recommend you find a store like Stereoland and have a no pressure listing session. I was treated like a king for an hour, and there was no dought I was making the right choice for me. Nothing like the brick and mortar store and Stereoland was, and will be the place for me to deal. |
my reason to get integrated is that I did not want to deal with too many choices. I got one that allows me to stream and strongly recommend Hegel. Worth the price.
My second choice would be Rotel. Used. I did not read carefully all recommendations but am surprised that more people did not mention Rotels. I got mine in 2010 for $250 used and sold it in 2019 for $200.
glad you are getting into HIFI. it has never been a better time! |
Regarding the Marantz not having a sub out... not needed if you buy a sub with high level input such as REL... IMO that need not be a buying point overall. |
U can connect any rel or any sub with high level inputs to any 2 channel amp.
Monitor Audio Gold GX100’s can be had for $1000, Gold GX50’s for $700. The ribbon tweeters are really nice. Monitor Audio Silvers look nice as well |
If I could throw in one more benefit that the yamaha has to offer. it also comes with a sub outlet, marantz does not, that was why i went with Yamaha, and am glad i did.
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My suggestion would be to stick with your original instincts... but you should highly consider going for the Denon PMA 1600NE. You will not be disappointed!!!
Trust me...🙂
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Monitor Audio sounds good then, I'm having a look into their silver models to see which one would be the best fit. I've narrowed down the other options as well a bit and will continue to do so til i get to a few favourites. |
Can't go wrong with Monitor Audio, using the Platinum 300ii myself and love their musicality, very warm and rich sound. I have heard all lines from bronze, silver, and gold. If you can afford a little extra the silvers are quite nice. |
Monitor audio is nice but I would want silvers at least, not bronze.
Out of what you listed, I’d take the B&W’s and the amp choice would come down to which sound you prefer. Marantz will be more laid back and the yamaha will be more lively. The B&W’s will sound a bit lively too. I had a pair of B&W 686 and really liked them. They sounded great.
How much are these packages you are looking at? |
oliverben5672,
I mention Monitor Audio simply because I am very familiar with that Yamaha 501 amplifier and Monitor Audio Silver 200 (I think that is how they are called). Not current model, though. A friend of mine has it and he settled on it after Marantz and a few more that I forgot. That combination is not only good for money, it is, in fact, very pleasant to listen to. Never fatiguing, no matter what kind of music you throw at it. Of course, it has to have some, relatively minor, shortcoming and that was bass. Once he bought SONY subwoofer at the thrift store ($12, for real), there is nothing to improve anymore unless he decides to really invest much more money. He uses Pioneer PLX-1000 turntable with Ortofon 2M Red cartridge, or digital sources. Even DAC in Yamaha is decent. Sure, separate DAC is much better, but for a starter it is good. As others have said, use it with your phone, computer, whatever else, until you are able to upgrade. You may simply not be in a rush. |
I checked for offers with monitor audio and there is the Monitor Audio Bronze 200 and 500 (6th gen) available |
If there is a way, check Monitor Audio. They often offer good performance for relatively little money. They are serious brand, too and are originaly from UK, i think.
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Okay based on what all of you’ve said I think I may be able to stretch my budget a little bit, probably only a few hundred pounds extra but it might make a difference. I’ve also found a website which offers massive savings when you buy an amp and speaker set together which is looking like a really good option for getter better equipment affordably.
The speakers that this bundle and extra cash opens me up to are: Q Acoustics 3050i, Dali Oberon 5, Wharfedale Diamond 12.4, Yamaha NS-F350, Fyne Audio F303, KEF Q550 and BowerWilkins 603. Amp wise I could choose between a few but the two that stand out are Marantz PM6007 and Yamaha A-S501. Like you guys have said though, I’ll disregard picking one for now until the speaker side is sorted.
This seems to be a significant improvement on my previous options and at a very small change in price, what do you guys think?
Speaker wise I haven’t been able to look at all in detail just yet, I’ve heard good things about the Dalis, the 603s are the most expensive to buy separately but obviously that’s not always an indicator of quality - I haven’t looked too deeply into these yet - and Wharfedale and KEF seem to be a strong brand name. The website also says that I can request quotes for other speakers they have listed as part of a speaker amp deal but these seem to be the top speakers there. |
The speakers are the component that'll give life (or not) to your music... it is crucial that you find a pair that suits your taste BEFORE buying an amplifier... BTW, you are lucky... UK has many great electronic company, as Tannoy (speakers), Rega (turntables), Sugden (amplifiers), Spendors (speakers) and many many others... If you are willing to buy used, you could basicly double your purchase power... good luck with that!
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I am somewhat confused.
So you have a TT right? And the cost of that, I believe was 350, is to be included in the 1000 pound budget. If correct, you have 650 left.
You have a modest sized room so need to be thinking about speakers that are easy to drive such that they can be driven by 50-100wpc integrated amplifier. The higher the speaker sensitivity and the impedance the lower the power needed.
Is the Yamaha A-S501 (as mentioned by others) available to you? It has an internal phonostage and DAC. Should be around 350 pounds (sells for $550 in US).
This leaves 300 pounds for speakers.
Now, If you are willing to save money over the next year or two to upgrade speakers you could purchase a low price pair now to get you into music with an opportunity to search for the best pair to compliment your system and tastes. Just one approach. If you have found speakers you like but put you over budget, find a used integrated to drive them with the idea you can upgrade it later.
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You really should look into the Parasound Z series. You can get separates, an amp, preamp, and phono stage for less than a grand if you shop carefully. You have to pick a pair of speakers first though. A little backwards to buy an amplifier system and then speaks IMO. |
"...check out the Iotavx sa3 which is pretty well regarded..." This reads too good to be true. Really full package including dimming all the lights on the faceplate. |
You seem set on a TT for your first system. Is there any reason for this? Do you have a collection of records already? If not you have to add the cost of vinyl into your budget. Not inexpensive these days unless you like older music and scour the used record stores.
If you have your heart set on vinyl that's great. But, you might want to start off with an integrated and decent speakers first for your budget. Can you use your phone or computer for music? Do this and then save up for a DAC, phono stage, and TT. I paid $200 for a used Gram amp 2 phono stage and it sounds pretty darn good with my vintage Dual TT that I spent $150 on (plus another $160 to get it up and running perfectly).
Actually, check out the Iotavx sa3 which is pretty well regarded and comes with a DAC and phono stage built in. Then look at Triangle BRO3 or one of the Klipsch or Elac bookshelfs. For less than 1k you can have a nice rig. Maybe even have enough left over for a decent vintage TT!
Best of luck
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1000 pounds will surely require upgrades sooner rather than later, but with some luck on used market it could pull pleasant sound for a while.
To readjust a bit, is there anyone on this thread who is located closer to OP and has an amplifier in the storage? Or anything else? OP is trying to start in an expensive hobby with very tight budget. Maybe someone could help him to bridge this period? |
Hi
as I said, I’m an audiophile from PORTUGAL,
I have Yamaha A-S1100 and I have mark Levinson 335 excellent power
I already had Rega, it is to forget, they are worth nothing (Zero)
I have Monitor Audio GS20 GOLD speakers and also JBL Ti6K excelent
Good luck
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Tbh £1000 is quite a lot of money for me to invest into this, I'm aware this is an expensive thing to do and I intend to upgrade as I go along. If you think it is not worth to try on this budget please say I'd prefer to save my money if it will only produce "junk". Also worth noting I am not an established audiophile, I don't think my ears are quite at a level where they can pick up on all the things some more experienced people can.
Based on the budget and what people have said, the current set up I'm looking at is:
Project Debut Carbon Evo + one of the amps we've mentioned (rega io/quad vena ii/marantz 6006) + Q Acoustic 3050
or
Project Debut Carbon Evo + Rega Fono MM Mk3 Phono Preamp + Edifier S2000Pro (active speaker).
These both fall at the upper end of what I can afford so I'd appreciate all your thoughts. Open to alternative speakers and would like to hear from some people that own these ones or who are knowledgeable about them. Between the two options which gets your vote, passive and integrated amp, or phono preamp and active speaker?
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I would save up your money and buy something decent. As they say, junk in = junk out. I would think think this group could tell you at what price point to start. You also need to determine how bright you want your sound and choose accordingly. |
Marantz PM 7005/6007 Intergrated amps. |
Okay lots of information I worry I might miss some stuff. I’ve been looking at speakers and one that seems to have a lot of positive reviews are Q Acoustics 3050, and I’ve found a website selling them at £330 which is about £200 less than other websites. Not sure if anyones had any experience with these? They have a really high sensitivity at 92db but do have a rear port which some people have warned me about. Its also had a newer model replace it, the 3050i but for the extra money there doesnt appear to be too much of a difference in its make up.
The recomended power listed on their website is 25-100W at 6Ohms, the 6 does confuse me a little as all amps and almost all speakers I've seen say 4 or 8.
Another amp thats come up quite a few times is Marantz PM6006 (some Uk edition) which seems decent to. Its almost like theres too much to choose from!
Like Arizonabob says so many options so little time... (and so little moeny)... |
I'm with elliottbnewcombjr. Vintage (well maintained) will give you the most bang for the buck (or pound). Back when power was rated @RMS, this was a more honest, realistic rating. Older Marantz, Sansui, Sony and Pioneer receivers shouldn't disappoint, with most having built-in phono stage. For whatever reason I never see older JBL speakers mentioned. They excel for listening to rock/metal type music. Highly efficient and easy to push. When ready to upgrade, they should maintain resale value or you can hold on to for a secondary system. So many options, so little time... |
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You have been given some excellent advise and choices above. I second the Yamaha options as well rounded and full featured integrated amps. The Rega Brio is minimalist but sounds great and has a better phono section. Cambridge CXA series is nice as well. Marantz has some nice sounding amps in that price range and are very well reviewed. My experience has been they have a "mellower" sound than the others mentioned. They mate very well with, let's say a pair of Klipsch. Speaker matching will be important....Have fun!
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IF you can find Speakers, local pick up, and can listen at seller’s, and get right to return, you will know condition, sound quality, and option of easy return without packaging/shipping. |
At that budget, I am going to suggest Vintage Receiver with Vintage Speakers (or used newer speakers) to start, and upgrade in the future.
Vintage Receiver will give you several inputs, volume and balance, and MM phono built in. I also suggest getting one with ’loudness’ built in IF you listen at low volume at times. Get one with preamp out, or a tape loop, so you have the option of going out to self powered sub and back into receiver for mains.
Speakers: Vintage or Newer Used have two advantages:
1. less cost
2. buy local pickup and listen at sellers before committing, and get right to return
Speaker Type:
1. Efficient. Start trying to find higher sensitivity higher ___ db/1 watt/ 1 meter for a few reasons.
a. they need less power, saves money now and future upgrades
b. less needed power = smaller amp, lighter, less heat, greater flexibility of location
c. when you try tubes, higher efficiency speakers will keep you in the category of less watts per channel, thus more affordable, smaller, lighter, less heat, flexibility of location
2. Avoid ports, if port, front facing, to avoid muddy reflections from sides, rear surfaces.
3. remember idea of out to self powered sub then sub to amp (or back to receiver) then to main speakers, gives advantages to both amp (or receiver) and advantages to main speakers.
4. IF trying 3 above, I recommend a pair of self-powered subs, front firing, adjacent to mains, to preserve stereo location of bass player. Bass fundamentals and the related overtones give directionality. |
Hello Oliver,
I have tried most levels from budget to crazy expensive. Nothing, and I mean nothing has impressed me like a chines small company called Audio-GD. It is owned and lead by a genus analog engineer goes by Mr. Kingwa. Do not be turned down by thier very basic website, those guys are serious audiophile systems engineers and I highly recommend Audio-GD to anyone. It is not only the best vale for money, there platforms produce a level of musicality that it truly intoxicating and very difficult to find by another system.
If you need help, lt me know. |
Hi,
I'm an audiophile from PORTUGAL,
I recommend
I have Yamaha a-s1100, it is excellent
or 1200, 2100,2200 etc. etc
above average sound and build quality
Good luck
. |
Imo, with that limited of budget, I would consider an alternative. I would consider reallocating the funds toward primarily speakers and pre/amp or integrated. Source temporarily could be phone/laptop for digital, and if it is your pleasure, an inexpensive analog setup.
There is no demand, rule of system building in which one has to balance the cost of elements of the system. If you plan on upgrading over time, buying everything budget ensures you will have to sooner upgrade everything, and possibly get arguably poorer sound in the meantime.
Just remember this; the spectrum of sound quality is enormous, much greater than most audiophiles know. You can have many years of upgrading if that is the goal. There is no performance ceiling, not practically. The fact is that you can select any number of products and you will be at the starting line of what you could determine to be a marathon experience over a lifetime. No one here knows the outcome of the recommendations they are making. It's all guesswork. But, the system built will be beginner level; nice, thrilling for you!
The only way to learn of sound quality and better over time is to keep building rigs (or plow time/money into the recordings/media, but that is tempered by a hard limit on the system's quality). |
Okay I will try and find a speaker first and then circle back to an amp which matches it well. Speakers are hard to find out about atm as we are in lockdown I cannot go into any store to listen to them so I’m only going off reviews and peoples opinions on here.
Total budget wise I’m really wanting to keep it under 1,000 total, I was planning on splitting that equally between turntable, amp and speaker but maybe I should prioritise one over the others?
The debut carbon evo turntable is £450 which is a lot of the budget but I was considering the Rega Planar 1 as a cheaper alternative £250, (or the Rega Planar 1+ which has built in Phono preamp and then finding an expensive pair of active speakers but I’ve been told to stick to Passive if possible). Pretty much all of the amps recommended come in around the £350 mark which is about right if I’m splitting it equally.
So considering speakers then, if we’re splitting equal and looking at passive there’s £200 left if I go with the carbon evo, £400 with the RP1.
A few that seem popular and well reviewed are the Elac Debut B5.2, Dali Skeptor 2, KEF Q150, Fyne Audio F302 and Klipsch R-41M which are around budget range. If were to look for an active one for the RP1+ I’d probably go for an edifier. Again open to all advice and really appreciate your guys help, I am completely new to this so would be lost without you |
Horn speakers with a tube amp. |
I have a Rega Brio which is 70w. I would go that route unless you are sure you will find very sensitive speakers. It gives you much more choice speaker wise.
Mine is for sale but it's in Sweden and not worth shipping. You can probably find many similar in the UK. |
listen to soix and mesch
speakers first, then match amp
that is the best way
+1
I would suggest a Proac Studio series floorstander (i.e. 125 ...) with
Sugden/Audiolab/Naim/Exposure/Roksan integrated
Mario |
@oliverben5672
listen to soix and mesch
speakers first, then match amp
that is the best way |
If you can find it for the price, look for an integrated with a transformer for each channel...dual mono. Then it won’t matter so much what speaker you buy.
A stepped attenuator is also a good sign.
A good/dedicated preamp section is a good sign.
A stand alone phono preamp is a good idea as even a $200 unit is better than most mid priced phono sections in integrated amps.
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Only 30 wpc, buy speakers later? Hmmmmm
That presumes you eventually buy efficient speakers, I would want more like 92 db/1w/1m. Often more efficient speakers are large, and big cabinets get expensive, as well as hard to fit.
I think it is best to concentrate on what speakers will fit/perform well in your listening space, always preferring higher efficiency, and once speakers are solved, then how much power is needed?
..................................
I read somewhere recently that low bass is about 65% of the work an amp has to do. I want to retrace my steps to find it again.
Sooo, if you go first to a self powered sub (or two), then to your amp (after bass has been taken out of the signal), the amp will have a much easier job to do, AND, the mains will also do a better job with highs, mids, upper bass, not trying to make low bass.
Thus: buying a 30wpc amp may be enough, if you get efficient mains for highs and mids, and self powered sub-woofer(s) for low bass.
..........................................
However, that presumes you have a preamp out to the sub, then from sub to amp. Keep that in mind when choosing your integrated amp.
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I really enjoy my Cambridge audio cxa81. I would look for a used cxa60. |
I'm on board with the group liking the Yamaha A S-501. I have had mine for a short time but am really impressed with it's performance.
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I use a Yamaha a-s801 integrated. Silver faceplate but it comes in black too. The listed factory rating of 100 wpc in 8 ohms, 165 in 4 ohms is inaccurate. Gene DellaSalla of Audiohaulics magazine Tests proved that the numbers were really about 125 @8 ohm and about 188 @ 4 ohm. Really sharp unit in my opinion. Got it for $700.00 less than a year ago at ABT in Glenview Illinois. |
Plus 1 for the PS Audio Sprout 100. I have one and it is a good sounding integrated amp. |
Jbmack75, my Hegel's display is dimmable. Fast or slow push on the remote only moves 1 decibel. The remote is made of metal and is the type you don't have aim at the amp. At 66 this is my fourth amp, previous ones were in the 1 to 2 thousand range. Due to a great divorce outcome I bought myself the Hegel for $6000. I absolutely love it. (Bryston A2 speakers) |
Rega Brio R is a solid integrated with a fine phono stage for a start. I call that amp “the gateway drug”. Hahaha. They can be had for reasonable price now used. I’ve heard that little amp drive harbeths, quad z2’s, Wharfdales, etc etc just fine. It’s a very pleasant sounding amp. I ran it with a grado black cartridge with 8MZ stylus with some wharfdale diamond 225’s (my first set up) and it was a very nice combination for the money at that time. Same set up now could be had for 450$ total maybe? Not sure about used UK market. Might be better for those brands actually. Good luck.
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Like the volume control comments. I need 1 decibel increments. Also nice if volume display is dimmable, but may be getting a bit into the woods. |
3rd, the Yamaha A-S501 85 WPC + it's 4 ohm compatible which let's it be
used with a wider variety of speakers.
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Schiit Ragnorak fully loaded
awesome |
I would highly recommend the PS Audio Sprout. My secondary system used the original Sprout (it has been updated to the Sprout 100 with 100w through 4 ohms and the convenience of a remote control) and the Q Acoustics 3050 floor standing speakers and the sound was excellent and a true “budget” system. I used a Music Hall Turntable with an Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge and they all paired well. The Sprout 100 retails new for $699 but I have seen them used for about $500 or so. The sprout also has Bluetooth built in as well. I also have the Denon PMA-600NE for my office system driving Gallo Acoustics bookshelf speakers and it is quite good as well— however the PS Audio is much better (and more expensive new). |
