I would like to start with a humble apology to the OP of a thread I recently (overtook) for personal reasons. smrex13, I apologize to you and hope your audio journey going forward is joyous!
To donvito101, I made my remarks personal and for this I apologize.
I checked for remarks from yesterday on the "VPI Prime noise issues" (2 threads, why, I don't know) . I still find it odd that VPI did not remark on smrex13' original thread, only to his last thread that ended, "not VPI's fault".
I've had a couple of issues since purchasing my VPI Classic 3 SE Sig. one year ago. I sent, (through my dealer), an initial question about the arm tower's operation on Feb 2016. I was told it would be forwarded to VPI. As of today, I've not received one comment.
I've recently, in the past 3 months, had a vibration issue through the 3D arm when the SDS is set at 33rpm. It is not noticeable at 45 rpm. I feel it through the finger lift.
I've tried oiling the motor, cleaning the belt & new talcum, the spindle bearing is just like recommended with the proper grease etc...
I relayed all of this through my dealer who asked for pictures and I sent them. This was two weeks ago. As of today, not one word. Because of my last question through my dealer in Feb w/ no response, I'm a little weary.
OK. So, my position is.... I should go through the proper channels. The dealer, right? VPI has their sales set up through a dealer network. This, I assume, is to take a burden off of them so they can be focused on manufacturing?
We/I/ you, pay a premium for this? I assume it's around 100% added to the actual cost of manufacturing. So, if I have an issue, I should follow the way VPI has their dealer network set up and take my concerns to the dealer. If this is not the way things should work, why then, doesn't VPI just sell directly? We/me/the end user could save BIG BUCKS.
That's pretty much the whole issue. I have no idea why VPI does not want to make any effort to settle this issue.
The ADS centre indentation represents 60hz, with your particular pulley,
belt and platter combination, your table’s motor needs a frequency less
than 60hz to achieve 33.333 rpm.
I think this is well stated: Center detente REPRESENTS 60Hz; it does not guarantee it. The ADS uses an analog oscillator which (by design) has a very low Q tank circuit. Low Q equates to poor frequency stability and any analog oscillator will exhibit worse performance than a crystal controlled circuit, by several orders of magnitude. This isn't opinion or marketing fluff, it is verifiable science; I've also observed this first hand.
The other problem with the ADS is the center detente; while the controls may be continuously variable on either side of center, there is a rather large "step" in frequency created by the detente position on both sides of center.
Finally, enough of the whining. Your ADS is working correctly. The ADS centre indentation represents 60hz, with your particular pulley, belt and platter combination, your table’s motor needs a frequency less than 60hz to achieve 33.333 rpm. That is the whole purpose of the ADS to allow each user to dial in the correct frequency to achieve 33.333 rpm. Time to move on!
@edwyun, If you read my post correctly, the ADS is not working fine. I posted that in the 33rpm mode when the adjustment knob was in it's center (neutral/VPI calibrated ) position, I had to turn it left...meaning it ran (fast) in it's factory calibrated setting. (Why is that so hard to comprehend?)
I've had one on one emails with Mat recently. He, (IMO) is not personally invested in the company. I really don't think he has a passion for music in general.
I told him that I will not call on his company in the future for anything. I hope he can realize his passion for teaching and transfer the operation of VPI to someone who has a passion for music.
Not sure I understand. You had an issue with your SDS. It took a while but VPI stepped up to the plate and replaced it with a brand new ADS as the SDS was being discontinued. The ADS is apparently working fine. Maybe it is just me but I dont know many companies that would do that irrespective of warranty, etc.
I haven’t forgotten anything. Whats the issue? I posted when I felt I wasn’t feeling the love. Mat saw the post, reached out and showed me serious love (SERIOUSLY), so I am posting about it. There is a book called ’The One Minute Manager’. Its about the problems in Corporate America. When things don’t go well, people rant about it for hours. When things go right, no one says anything.
One should yell just as loud when the problem is resolved as he did when he was complaining. Just makes sense to me.
Slaw, above you stated: "I am not wanting to replace it (the Townshend table) for the VPI Classic 3 Sig SE anytime soon. In the end, I know I will have to. UGH!". I'm unclear on the meaning; do you mean the Townshend will replace the VPI, or visa versa? If the VPI will replace the Townshend, I understand your disappointment! Why would that be necessary? If you mean the Townshend will replace the VPI, why the ugh? I owned a VPI HW-19 in the 80's/early 90's, and liked it a lot. But the Townshend is a whole 'nother ball game, isn't it?!
I wasn't informed as to what this issue was. I wasn't contacted at all during the time they received the unit until almost two weeks later I inquired an update!
Their whole scenario is SUSPECT.
Frankly, I thought I was doing well, at this point, to even get some sort of customer service!
I just want to listen to music. I thought I'd be able to do so with a well reviewed tt by all of the press with this table.
It seems to me, even more now, that I was still, taken advantage of.
If I'm correct in that VPI has or will be discontinuing the SDS, it
seemed that accepting the ADS was a better option at the time. Again, no
one offered an explanation.
I'm not surprised they weren't able to fix the SDS, I don't know who they have working for them that could repair a piece of digital equipment such as that. AFIK, the SDS has been discontinued, but all of the ICs and PCB components are still available; the power supply is a SMPS type and there are many good candidates for replacements if the original is not available. What was wrong with it BTW? I suspect I may be able to fix it via e-mail and some minor soldering.
I'm also not surprised that the ADS is off frequency or that it drifts with time. It uses an analog oscillator which subject to drift with temp and time and will be nowhere near as accurate or stable as the crystal controlled SDS. It looks as if they used the same output scheme as the SDS (small PCB mount heat sinks) so I think the heat build up inside the case will be significant and cause the frequency to drift.
In the end, I can, and will post all of the communications I've saved between myself and the VPI representatives, if required. I did not know that this would be necessary.
What ever anyone's conclusions are, I will never be a VPI buyer in the future.
Frankly, my Townshend table is SO much more musically involving, I'm not wanting to replace it for the VPI Classic 3 Sig SE anytime soon. In the end, I know I will have to. UGH!
You were THE main detractor, now you seem to have forgotten (your past)?
I'm fine with forgiveness, after re-reading your posts here, your quick turn-around, while all well and good, doesn't acknowledge your posting history at all.
You must have some divine power bolstering you?
Are you "incredibly impressed" because your issues are finally being addressed? Does this post by you leave us feeling that in spite of your past opposite feeling, that you now have somehow forgotten this and have wiped it all away from your memory banks?
Your offer, while appreciated, was obviously too late. (Check the dates on the posts)
I hooked up the ADS and all seems well for now. The tt is out of my system and not in (listening use). The vibration for now, is absent.
If I'm correct in that VPI has or will be discontinuing the SDS, it seemed that accepting the ADS was a better option at the time. Again, no one offered an explanation.
Upon testing the speed accuracy, in 33rpm mode, I had to lower the knob to the left from center, using my "Timeline" to get proper speed. If this continues when I put the table back into my system, I'd say their factory setting is off.
If the SDS is being phased out, it didn't make much sense to keep it. If the SDS is being phased out, I pity the ones who purchased it at it's current raised price.
Mat stepped up QUITE NICEY for me, as well. ABOVE & BEYOND. I am incredibly impressed. Mat just reached out, wished me a happy New Year and asked what he could do to help me out. And he has not stopped.
I have not taken him up on the VPI Factory Tour (yet) but I do feel like the entire factory has been working for me these past two weeks.
I have seen a 3 turned into a 4 but into an ELEVEN? Incredibly impressed and thankful to you, Mat Weisfeld and your team.
There really is no reason to replace your SDS with the ADS. In my informed opinion, the ADS is clearly inferior to the SDS in almost every measurable way. Aside from the difference in technology, if you look at VPI's forum, there are a number of complaints regarding the ADS and mechanical hum that may be objectionable to some users.
If you would like me to repair your SDS, I would be glad to do so at no charge. Contact me directly: bill@phoenix-engr.com.
Your initial response that stated your impressions of how one could, or in this case, one's family business could be affected years after their loved one's have passed in a way that could continually be a negative affect on their prized customers years later, seems to me to lead one to assume that (you) have a better "read" on these types of issues more than most. I could only assume this led you to respond in the way you did. Your insight would lead me to believe that (you) are the enlightened one in the area of psychology?
I am just reporting on my long history, you injected another aspect that you now have to support.
With respect to your comment, a lovely comment, however not very applicable to any business model anyone would be likely to support if it weren't a high-end tt manufacturer who's customers represent a low # in regards to the musically inclined population vs, any other standard business model. I hope you come out of your depression soon.
Finally!! I have a tracking number for a (new) ADS. This is a replacement for my (suspected), faulty, SDS.
Without going into detail on all of the emails, VPI has just sent me a tracking # for a replacement item. To their credit, my faulty SDS was out of warranty. They did not have to send me a new unit. I initially asked to have my SDS repaired. After not receiving any other response, I inquired again. Now, they want to replace with an new ADS. After realizing that the SDS was not being manufactured any longer ((on my own)). I requested the new ADS.
To their discredit, they never really gave me a viable option. Their emails were vague and left me wondering their meaning.
After an email from Marc stating they would build a unit and ship it within two days...that two day window turned into almost two weeks without hearing a word. Yesterday, I emailed again. Another apology and a promise to send the new unit w/ tracking # today. At around 2:30 EST, I emailed again. I finally received the tracking # today.
So to the person who said earlier, the loudest voice gets the best service...(something like that), not really.
Very SLOW service actually. I only hope the ADS performs well?
The population of consumers financially able to buy a VPI, Clearaudio, Rega, Oracle, etc turntable is a community of music lovers with disposable income to purchase these wonderful products. Be thankful you are in this community and remember patience and treat others with respect and humility, especially around the holiday seasons. I am not a VPI owner, I own a Clearaudio. However, VPI has not been in business for as long as they have without reason. Please keep the Wiesfeld family in your prayers because losing loved ones prematurely can harden one's heart and it appears their family has had their share of loss and still do a really good job at making a quality product.
Credit to Mat for taking an established brand and not just sitting back waiting for the next check. He's working to keep VPI forward thinking and relevant with new products and partnerships. They've grown, you're not always going to get the owner on the phone... yet you still can. And their warranty doesn't seem to be one that has a hard expire. Listen, I'm not saying I agree everything VPI does (old or new), but I'll certainly take their personal business approach any day over most other audio companies who treat you as a number.... a number that they don't know after a certain period of time. We're lucky to have VPI.
P.S. One more up vote for the acrylic platter Scout. I firmly believe, down the road, people will look back on this as one of the greats.
I have never had an issue with Vpi customer service. They have always been helpful. However, with that being said i always believed that the original scout with acrylic platter was Vpi s most honest table as well as best value. The earlier Aries and 1st classic were their best tables. The only thing with Vpi and other unipivot designs is truly understanding how to set them up properly. That's the key. Its the biggest weakness. Setup and alignment is critical. It takes times to learn how to do this properly. I like the sound of the original scout better than the prime. That's just me.
Mat, You do a great job. So does your father and everyone else at VPI. You and your team have talked me through numerous problems and misunderstandings while always sounding friendly and professional. I went from a used Scout to a new Super Scoutmaster Reference over nearly 10 years. I have nothing to envy thanks to your innovation, quality, and reasonable pricing. I'm glad I don't have to compete with you, you never seem to run out of great ideas. Best, Raul
I make mistakes. I probably made a mistake in my handling of this as well. (I do think, in the end, that more positives will come from it).
What I find is that I need to be open to other avenues of thought. If we are never challenged and aren't even open for another person's views, there will be no going forward in a positive way. I hope (I) can continue this way of thinking in the new year.
These days, one never knows where we will find sources of wisdom that speak to our inner self.
I watched an interview with CBS's John Dickerson last night, speaking with Steven Colbert. There was a lot of wisdom in his reflections that spoke to me.)
Well said. My posting this thread has caused me to reflect on this and hope others can step back and see the value of the outcome, positives and negatives and choose better approaches going forward. I appreciate your post as all others'.
Since the other day, Mat contacted me with a couple of other things to try so the arm may/may not be the culprit. For anyone interested in the final outcome, I'll post it here.
I realize that you have real issues and that can be frustrating in and of itself. Feeling that you cannot get resolution can easily push one over the edge. Obviously you meant no malice in starting this thread, but look what happened. We unfortunately now live in a world where there are not only those with a well-directed intent to help, but also many that are searching for opportunities to spread malice at every turn. Unfairly, we must take extra precautions in our public communications to avoid giving the latter a forum to create malevolent chaos. Not at all just, but true.
Perhaps a thread titled, "Best way to get through to the right folks at VPI?" or similar would have yielded better response to your issues and avoided this unfortunate and unintended scenario. Or, unfortunately, maybe not. At least it would have been your best foot forward in getting your needs met.
Not your fault at all, so please don’t look at this as blame or criticism, but that’s just how it is these days. I pity earnest manufacturers of audio gear, including Mat and Harry, that have to endure this type of abuse (not your’s) in this era of vengeful intent.
Well put @turntablemat. We have now heard the airing of grievances. We have seen the feats of strength in rhetoric. Let us now give thanks for the miracle of good sound reproduction, and share some nice meatloaf.
Merry Christmas to you too @cerrot I will not discouraged and my offer will still stand for both helping you with your turntable and for visiting our factory. Lets talk after the holidays. :)
@gshepardbuster couldn’t agree more!
@zachteich and everyone else thank you for the support and helping to keep the love of music alive.
Harry is disappointed IN ME? He should be disappointed at your customer service. You have one hell of a nerve to post something like that. Spare me Harry's tongue for I will tell him what to do with it. Merry Christmas and now, Matt, please stop posting.
Having read this thread, and several much like it on VPI's forum, I wanted to add a word on the company's customer service.
That word is: Great.
I've been a VPI customer for 12 years. I've climbed the ladder from the original Scout all the way to the HRX, (where I intend to stay), and have used JMW 9, 12.6, 12.7 and 3D arms. My RCM is a VPI 16.5 which I bought used. Anytime I've had a problem I've had tremendous support from VPI, occasionally from Harry himself. On the only occasion when I've had a defective product (an original 12" 3D armtube which a subcontractor manufactured) VPI replaced it and stepped me through the process of retrofitting it to my HRX. They even replaced the 'table's male arm pivot point at the factory for me, no charge. Is VPI perfect? No. IMHO, they've suffered a bit from QC problems flowing from a massive expansion in both demand and product line that hit just as the management change from HW to Mat took place. But even taking that into account, I'd rate VPI as one of the very best companies I've ever done business with in terms of both the quality of their products and the after-sale service I've received. To those who are experiencing problems with your VPI product I'd offer this advice. Pick up the phone. Call VPI and calmly describe the problem. They will work with you. Given the time of year, you probably will have to wait until early January, but it will be worth it. Just my $.02, but that sum was earned honestly through personal experience. Good Luck!
Although I have never owned a VPI TT and only thought about them occasionally. It looks to me as if Matt has taken control of the company and intends to carry on Harry's / Dads legacy. Not Everything will be the same in a transition. Give VPI/Matt an occasional bump in the road. Myself, I own an 88' vintage LP12 and a new Kuzma Stabi S with upgrades. I am happy with both TTs and my system at this time.
Merry Christmas and Best Wishes to all this Journey.
MAT: I have more VPI turntables than most dealers, and I seem to manage without help from VPI.........I didn't ask for anything and I don't need anything................autospec
I just wanted to say. I have a Scoutmaster I purchased new. VPI has provided amazing support over the years. I have fully upgraded my table with every option they have offered including some that were off path. I have never had a bad experience and have worked with both Harry and Mat. I would never hesitate to recommend a VPI table.
I've been a VPI customer for years. Most of the time I dealt directly with Harry and he was always gracious and helpful. Now, I deal with Mat and experience the same level of support. I've only dealt with them through the Internet ether and don't know either personally. They get busy but I've never felt they were trying to avoid me or blow me off. I have no local dealer so this support is important to me. I have no doubt they make mistakes. Don't we all?
OK. You have had different issues that haven't gone on for such a long period.
As I've reported, Mat has responded, according to him, I'll be receiving a (new arm that he says will take care of all of my issues). This was after I sent him all of my past 10 months or so emails to my dealer w/ pictures.
This is a BIG thing! I wish I did not have to go to the measures I did but......
Mat is responding on Christmas Eve! So, while I still have concerns, he's stepping up to the plate.
I could micro-diagnose his late response but,... Why?
My my experiences with VPI customer service has been beyond exemplary. I find the folks at VPI to be warm and gracious folks. I purchased a USED two tonearm Classic 4 through Audiogon. The table was rated 9/10. When I set up the table, there was A very annoying hum, particularly at 33 rpm, but also present at 45 rpm. Obviously not a 9/10 condition. I contacted Harry, he responded quickly with several ideas for me to try. None of these worked.
I then delivered the table to VPI, luckily I live a drive able distance saving shipping. Harry greeted me like a long lost friend! He insisted that he help me unload the table which he recognized immediately. Long story short, VPI kept the table for 3 weeks. They installed a new motor, a new motor mount, replaced the needle tonearm bearings, machined and installed a metal cover for the bottom of the table,thoroughly lubricated and cleaned the table and changed me NOTHING! Remember, this was a Four year old table purchased used through Audiogon! By the way, this was Harry Pierson's turntable that had been obviously used very hard.
Dealer let the ball Fall on your foot It's sad. You walk in there good stores now And all you See is monster, audio quest, & B&O. Or sader yet Now you See the likes of Martin Logan Or Krell at Best Buy Type stores VPI should of E. Mailed you after bad Service with the Theater speaker selling Dealer. VPI is nice stuff hope you get help
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
