The seller should not be paying any import duty on an item that was shipped out and returned. He isn't importing anything, the item started in his country and is ending therre. Duty should not apply. I shipped a streamer to europe for upgrade and it took a while but I eventually figured out a code that didn’t charge either of us import duties.
In your case, it sounds like the seller is just trying to minimize the import duty that he is wrongly charged so I would support that. Better answer would be to find the harmonized tariff code for "returned goods" or something similar so that he is not charged anything.
Jerry
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Totally agree with the logic carlsbad2 is stating. There is a "return for repair" box right on the customs form one fills out with the couriers, I would fill that out. But here is the issue- the album ends up snapped in half at the consignee, it is only insured for $50 (you can't insure for a higher amount then the declared value). Now the fight goes on for who is on the hook for the 1200 paid. This assumes the carrier will even entertain paying for damaged items. Last I enquired they only would cover loss, not damage, unless it was original packaging from the manufacturer, which seems odd when you are talking about an album. I would still do it (mark it at $50) with the understanding that the original shipper is on the hook.
Wait, did you say $1200 for one album?!
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Now, or ever, is no time to engage in fraud.
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I do not profess to know the intricacies of US customs costs, but if the shipper charged you $1,200 for something that was "not as described", I would not trust him to do what's right for you.
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Of course if it is "not as described", then perhaps $50 is an accurate value.
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I don't know anything about customs but the above comments are spot on, fraud is bad on any level and if you got something that wasn't nearly as described, and you put a $50.00 value on it, your refund will be $50.00
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what someone else said. You’re returning used goods. There should be no charge.On the other hand, what customs inspector is going to question a value of $50 for one LP? No LP ever made is worth $1200. They might be more inclined to question such a huge value. Then there’s your own self interest; you want your money back.
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Ouch. I hope you can afford the loss on this, but it doesn't sound good.
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You don't even want to know my thoughts on this...
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Lots of holier-than-thou people assuming that someone is cheating here and ignoring the fact that noting is being imported so no duty is due.
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My holier-than-thou assumption is you're out 1200 bucks.
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Sorry but hope you can afford the loss.
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@OP Did you pay duties on receipt of the album and if so, did the seller declare the full value, i.e the price you were paying them, when they exported the goods to the US?
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let me add a different perspective, with a European brain (Eastern European, even worse)
We deal with taxes and customs and fees every day. It's a nightmare. A price tag of X really means 3X at the end. It's pretty normal to be "lean" every possible way and use standard low numbers when declaring value. It can totally NOT be a red flag, just routinely avoiding getting screwed. Many times, customs doesn't care if it's an item returned back to its origins. They are trained to screw you. They have quotas. I could write a book about my stories sitting in their offices with my beaten up laptop as they claimed I was trying to sneak it into the country and sell it.
On the other hand, $1200 for a record, not as described IS a red flag.
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I once traveled from Rochester, New York, where I lived, to the IKEA store in Toronto. It was a long time ago. I had 7 foot tall shelves sticking 3’ out of the back of my hatchback car wrapped with 100 feet of saran wrap because it was raining like hell. The border agent ln Canada asked me if I had anything to declare… There was no cost to bring it over the border, butI am still laughing at it to this day and it was 35 years ago.
I lived near the Canadian border. Everybody said DO NOT LIE when crossing the border, EVER!
Bent
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Thank you for your helpful replies. By choice, the Seller is reputable and we’ve done deals before so this will be happily resolved. Worst case scenario, just in case, the full refund is assured via PayPal and my VISA (based on prior experience alas). Thanks again! 😊
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My only question is:
What album did you pay $1,200 for? I'm not judging, I'm just very curious what the "Holy Grail" album was. A Beatles "Butcher Cover" variation?
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@riie I used to. Still traveling there once or twice a year
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$50 is what it's actually worth. You just paid $1200 for it. If it were me, my conscience could stand it. Anyway, if it's not what you thought you were buying then obviously it would be worth less than what you paid, wouldn't it?
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During my career with the USPS, I worked a short stint as a window clerk. We made it a practice to inform shippers sending valuable items to certain foreign countries NOT to purchase insurance or send their item Registered. Both services required labels that thieves looked for. You need to remember that once it leaves the US, you are no longer dealing with supposedly honest American government employees, you're dealing with other country's officials, for however many countries it travels through. This may be why the seller made the request, as the Customs label has to be affixed to the outside of the package with the declared value clearly printed on it. Foreign customs officials don't tend to suspect contraband being shipped from the US, so they would not likely be interested enough in a low balled value to actually open the package for inspection. Likewise, a thief wouldn't be interested either.
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Probably best not to make a habit of it.  The album reveal is worth a thread of its own.
the full refund is assured via PayPal and my VISA (based on prior experience alas).
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I took that advice and still lost a $350 @sph part sent to Malaysia. With no recompense.
certain foreign countries NOT to purchase insurance or send their item Registered
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Where is there any potential for “fraud”? It’s a friggin’ record, for goodness sake. The person who may have committed fraud is the seller. We’re not talking about diamonds or precious metals or any other commodity that has a commonly understood value scale. If the thing is not what the seller said it was, it probably isn’t even worth $50. And again, you’re returning an already used item to its place of origin. On a US Customs form, that is a category for which there is no charge.
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I live in the EU and can testify that any import shipment from the countries outside will be charged with so called 'Vat' tax (around 20 percent, depending of country) and that tax will be charged on cost of goods and cost of transport (shipping) together. To import something and not pay import tax (like a gear that you have send for repair) you need to make such papers with official fast forwarder (that also cost, usually from 100usd and above). So, the mentioned seller is probably just trying to avoid more potential costs, since record, if declared for 1200usd will be taxed for some 25 percent or more, when received. It is possible to declare a lesser value and still have it insured with carrier for bigger amount, at least from EU side
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As many have stated:
a. No one pays a Customs "(Country Name} Return Goods" duty on this item. So, this is NOT a Customs Duty ($) issue.
b. If you lower the value of this item from $1200 to $50, you may red-flag this shipment at the port-of-entry. Why? Customs agencies collect tariffs, and customs agents are trained to spot items that are dramatically undervalued. If your box is flagged, this alone could hold-up the shipment for months.
c. If you lower the value of this item from $1200 to $50, the world now views it as a $50 item (it is plausible that something happened to cause the value to significantly drop while it was in your possession). Consequently - if the LP is lost or damaged, you are likely to receive $50 in return.
Why? On a really bad day, you may need to send a PDF of the shipping docs to VISA and PayPal, who will not reimburse you above $50, because YOU lowered the items value - leaving you in the position of having lied about the value of the (now $50) LP OR forging the shipping documents - bad either way.
c. On the other hand, if you declare the LP to be worth $1200, you can track it until it leaves the U.S. If it is lost or stolen after it leaves the U.S., it is an issue for the seller. Be certain to keep your shipping/tracking documents.
Be certain to photo-document the reason why the LP is not as advertised. I would also photo-document packaging the LP for shipment (to avoid arguments that shipping-damage was caused by poor packing).
Because the seller misrepresented the item, I suspect that most buyers would be fine forcing the seller assuming responsibility for the issue.
Best of luck with your decision!
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P.S. to the above part b. - I assumed that the port-of-entry agent noticed the LP is undervalued and may not notice the 'returned goods' box was checked. This is reasonable because Tariffs and Fraud are higher-priority issues than 'returned goods'.
This scenario is more common than one may think (I worked in this field for several years).
Again, good luck with your decision.
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Listen to those who know. This is returned goods, no duty, no fraud, I've done this exact thing when I've had upgrades done with my Canadian build equipment (US to Canada shipment).
If you list value as $50, how would that bring up red flag, this is entirely different shipment than when album was shipped to you. Does customs have xray vision and photographic memory to recall this was originally a $1200 album!
And why would you have any morality problem with the $50 valuation, in essence there is no actual goods changing hands, so duty being charged twice for goods that didn't change hands, that's extortion.
As for being fearful of customs, where is the jail for customs cheats, $1200 is relatively nothing in the whole realm of goods going through customs. If caught the worst you'd suffer is hold on package, they determine value, you pay the duty they determined, package continues on it's way.
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Like many others, I’m really curious what is the name of the album and what makes it a “Holy Grail” album for you?
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+1 for curiousjim
in fact, in general we know nothing about the actual problem with the LP, other than that it might be worth $1200 to a particular collector. By the way, valuing it at $1200 solely for the benefit that might accrue if it’s lost or damaged might equally be thought of as fraudulent by a determined moralist.
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And this ’holy grail’ LP is.....well, unfortunately I do not have a copy to keep yet as this copy is being returned. I will hunt another down ’in the wild’ and can then let you know.... :-)
The Seller readily agreed he was too enthusiastic with his description. The "NM" grading and writing it was "...like new..." and so on was not the case in reality. Oh well. Previously he has always accurately graded and described his records I bought. This was a unique blip. C’est la vie!
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I assure you, you’ll have no competition from me in hunting down another copy of the LP, no matter what it may be, if the cost is anywhere north of $30.
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@vinylfun is this a private purchase or is it an official store?
Purchased on Discogs maybe?
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I wouldn't judge anyone paying $1200 for an album. It can be a time capsule, with an emotional value one can't not have. For me, a $1200 cable would make less sense...
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What I'm still unclear about is whether duties and taxes were paid on the album when it was imported into the US in the first place - and what the seller valued the album at when they shipped it.
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@vinylfun ,
Man, why don't you just name the album you planned/plan on spending way too much for? This playing coy bit is kinda silly.
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Come to think of it, the entire premise of this thread is ridiculous. It's already been established by @carlsbad2 the point of a value is irrelevant since there's no import duty. Also what you paid for it is irrelevant. It's not worth what you paid for it, so how do you know it's worth even $50 or 50¢? Put the 50 bucks on it and send it back already!
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Ok, if you want to hear ridiculous regarding sending goods over the border:
I had a tegra computer board from my Tesla, built in Fremont California, that was failing because of a $20 flash chip. My choice from Tesla was replace the whole MCU infotainment unit (the whole big glass screen and all the guts contained) at a cost of $4000 Canadian at a Canadian Tesla service centre. Some figured out a way to simply replace the chip in the tegra board by hot air soldering a new one, and transferring the vehicle data from the old chip to the new one, so the car worked. After many success stories from others I decided this to do this.
I removed the MCU unit, removed the tegra board, and mailed it down to a fellow (with an Asian name) in California to do the work for $500, then I would get it mailed back and reinstall and I save more than $3000. Great!
He suggested I insure the tegra board for $2000, because that would be the cost to replace it should it get lost. Makes sense to me.
I ship it insured for $2000 via Fedex from Canada to California, and Fedex charges the receiver $300 extra as the tegra board was made in China, as this was when Trump was in office the last time and he slapped a 15% tariff on all Chinese goods.
Yes, a part from an American car, sent from Canada back to the US, was subject to a 15% duty on a "suggested" $2000 replacement value for a $100 actual part cost, to replace/repair a $20 part, because the computer board was made in China.
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@mclinnguy hah! That's wild! (I don’t understand the replacement cost $2000 math)
I once paid the price of 2 new monitors (in customs, taxes and fees) for bringing one used monitor into Hungary. I could have left it with the customs but, it was too much good money after bad by then, and I had to have it.
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@grislybutter Hungary? We own a Puli, not common in Canada, we get plenty of questions, but he was not imported from Hungary 
The $2000 replacement was the current cost of a used MCU (media control unit) from a wrecked/salvage car from ebay etc. that I would have to buy to obtain the same tegra board. It was not possible to buy any of the parts inside the MCU individually.
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@mclinnguy I used to have a puli. Of course they are popular at some point in time and then they are not, goes in waves. It's hard to keep 100s of sheep around to keep them happy in a city apartment.
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@vinylfun
l think this post has reached side one’s run out groove!
Wouldn’t it be ‘fun’ to turn it over now, name this holy grail ‘vinyl’ (requested twice already) and play side two. Let all those interested all have a fun time debating if this golden goose is in any real world reality worth $1,200 ?
Thats my Logic!
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"Hungary? We own a Puli..."
I tried goulash once...
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Mclinnguy, wait until after Inauguration Day if you want to see tariffs in action. We ain’t seen nuthin’ yet.
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yes, but the tariffs on avocado will keep murderers, rapists and fentanyl out of the country
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The site seems to be pretty lenient on liberal political postings so I guess it's time for the Trump haters to let us know how they feel. stand by.
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Ooooooh
apparently talking about stable genius’ "brilliant" policies is already hurting people’s feelings. When tariffs are very much on topic.
I couldn’t count if I had 1000s of fingers the Bidenomics whining and bashing that I read here and never blinked just kept scrolling.
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