@arion
Good info which enforces my thoughts. However the idea of stressing the monitors is something I hadn't thought about. And that stress will show up sooner or later. Yes, new room....I hope. although I was a builder/carpenter, I am 69 yrs old and don't have the stamina I once had. Hopefully my framing sub is still in business. But he isn't that far behind me in age either. But the room will be needed when my wife retires in a few years. Gotta have somewhere to hide. :-) |
Being a designer and manufacturer of both floor standers and monitors I can comfortably say, assuming equal quality, that the total output (SPL) is what is the biggest compromise. Driving some monitor speakers to higher volumes will push them to higher distortion levels and dynamic peaks can be truncated. Adding subwoofers won't fix that. Much of what makes a system sound dynamic is happening in the midrange. In our monitors we use one high out AMT (designed and built in house) and four 6 inch woofers to achieve good total output. In our 7000 cf (approximate) evaluation room our monitors produce good SPLs but nothing like our towers. At low to reasonably loud levels they both sound great (to us). You can guess which sounds better when really pushed.
This is my long winded way of saying build a dedicated room, if you can, and keep your floor standers.
Good monitors are a wonderful thing. Just make sure you understand them. |
@newbee
It does give you a better respect for the Silverline's abilities.
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@soix
Yess, I think I'll hold on to the Silverlines for the time. If the room comes into fruition It will take my $$$.
@b_limo
The problem with Salk is that they are power hungry. These are 84db and require 100wpc. My amp is 35wpc. I've had good sound from lower powered amps.
@bjesien
It was never about trying to recover floor space. I already have the 2 subs. I was trying to take out some of the bulky look of the floor stander speakers. We've lived with it for years now but I was hoping to be kind to my wife without giving up sound. Now maybe we both can have our rooms. |
I went with monitors on stands and they took up the exact footprint as the floor standers. Next you are adding 2 subs to take up additional space and trying to integrate them properly. That can be a challenge but can work fine.
Now I I have floor standers with a Rel Stadium III that I kept over the Rel S3. I don't use it all of the time but like having the sub. I haven't heard the speakers you are looking at, but with the right amplification match they shouldn't give up in soundstage and might even sound better. |
@artemus_5 , do me a favor and take 10 minutes and look at the Salk Songbird.
They are $1695 in a standard veneer and offer more choices of woods and dye’s than any other speaker builder I’ve seen. You can get any wood with any color dye you want. Pictures do not do these speakers justice! Glossy Automative finishes are available too.
His speakers are really gorgeous. On top of that, the Songtowers use the Hiquphon OW-1 tweeter which is supposed to be very musical and a fantastic tweeter! They’re $250 a piece. The midbass driver is of high quality as well; the Seas ER15 from their prestige line. It should be a nice organic sounding midbass driver that would complement the musicality of the Hiquphon well. Add in a transmission line cabinet and gorgeous cabinets and you have a winner!
If you are sold on a standmount, look at the Salk Ellis 1801b. It uses the same $250 Hiquphon OW-1 and pairs it to a $260, 7” Seas W18 midwoofer from Seas Excel line. These drivers are used in many of the best sounding speakers out there. The Ellis has $1000 worth of high end drivers in a stunning cabinet for $2300. Pretty remarkable.
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So, does a new room mean you’re no longer looking at monitors? If you are, what’s your budget? I didn’t see mention of that or maybe just missed it.
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LOL, I can identify! I got my Bolero's about 8 years ago and finally stopped thinking changes in my electronic's etc, would bring my other (older) speakers back to life and have stopped trying. Not even close. :-) |
OH, BTW to everyone else. I have a pair of Infinity RS-1 which I plugged into the system. Since I have the 2 subs, I figured it may give me an idea concerning my question. So I took the Silverline Sonatas our of the path and put the RS-1 in. I was quite surprised at how good they did sound for cheap speakers. They lacked the midrange clarity of the Sonatas. My wife an I listened to them for nearly a week. By that time we knew there was no comparison at all. But it was eye opening as to what such small speakers could do. Then I removed the RS-1 and inserted the Sonatas. As soon as the opening note to the 1st song was heard, I just busted out laughing. The Silverlines were so much bigger and better in every way that it seemed ridiculous now to even try a comparison.
As I reflect, Two things came to mind. Familiarity breeds contempt. I've had the Silverlines for 15 yrs or so. I knew they were a great speaker when I bought them. But somehow I had forgotten. the second is how easy we are to fool with something new. Even though I had these RS-1 for 10-15 yrs, I was somehow willing to believe they were really better than they were. This is why I usually put a new component in the chain and play it a week or so to acclimate it and me. Then I put the old back in. I've seen it happen where the old was better than the new and it was readily shown when put back in the chain. Now, onward to my new room.....I hope.
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@b_limo
The upshot may be that I build a room for me. I was going to do that 10 or so years ago. Now, maybe I can do that albeit a little smaller than the one from then. This will expand my office into a nice size music room 11 x 21 (will be the golden ratio) the other one which i had planned comprised another bathroom and a large room plus utility room. I was a builder so maybe I can do this in the summer. Problem is that I am covered up with needed maintenance. Oh well...the golden years.
@b_limo & @jackd
I think the Rels ability to integrate is their key to success. I've had them for 15 or more years now. Thankfully these [popped up at a killer price. Rythmic was on my radar though |
@artemus_5
Take a look at the Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary speakers with matching stands for $1499 at Music Direct with a 60 day return policy. I bought a pair just for fun on the recommendation of a couple of friends that own Avantgarde Duos and bought them as a change of pace speaker. I placed them in my Family Room which is about the same size as your room and they fill it with ease. I am augmenting them with a pair of Rythmik F-12G’s that were already in place. The combo sounds and looks great to me and the wife. They replaced a pair of Nola KO’s at 10 times the price and I don’t think I have given up that much. You can buy two Rythmik's for the price of one REL. |
@artemus_5 ,
keep us posted as to what you decide! We may have other speaker suggestions as well.
I like Sumiko’s as well 👍. I made my brother buy 2 s.9’s to complement his LS50W’s. I’ve heard people say RELs are superior but I did not find that to be true at all.
Anyhow, do keep us updated! |
@hilde45
Thanks for the link. they look interesting. My biggest problem with some is their inefficient specs IE 84-85db efficiency. There are a couple I could drive though. |
Thanks @b_limo . Yes the Watkins are pretty good. I've heard them and was shocked at how deep they go and the natural sound they exhibit. I think you have some valid & good ideas. And $1250 for the S% is a steal. Mine are actually Sumiko S-10's which seem to be a clone of the S-5. It has the same specs but different cone material. (Fiberglass) Plus the Neutrik connector. They integrate very well just like the Rel. I've had Rel before and just happened to run into these. I love what they do with the whole sound not just more bottom end but the mains sound much bigger. They are discontinued now. I suspect Rel would have sued them if they kept producing them. But Sumiko was the USA Rel distributor for many years |
Ok ok, I’m sorry... My opinion is that a pair of Monitors with a pair of subs should kick butt! I’d suggest getting monitors that play low because Rels are more of a sub bass system... you may have a hole in your freq. response if your monitors don’t play low. I have a REL S3 snd this is what I am experiencing. I put another sub in to fill the 40-80hz range that my Totem Arros were lacking in (dynamically).
I hadn’t heard of watkins gen 4 speakers before but they look nice. You may want to take a quick look at Salk Speakers. They use high quality drivers as well and look stunning. Your wife would love the aesthetics!
I think you could have a fantastic sounding set-up with some monitors and a pair of S5’s but I DON’T think you’ll be getting the midbass thump / smack in the chest type of dynamics that something like a Tekton Double Impact would offer up, obviously.
I think you’d be better off trying to go for a 6.5” midbass driver or larger, in order to try to move more air in that large listening space, but if you already heard the Watkins and like them, go for it!
If you didn’t buy the S5 yet, my local magnolia has an S5 SHO for $1250... |
@newbee
The SR-17's are legendary and hard to come by. Even with those, will they fill out the soundstage with full size figures?
@mapman Yep. It does come down to that. I must kick myself for NOT doing the room when there was opportunity. Oh well. I was a builder. It might be cheaper to build addition than to find a small speaker which will compete with the speakers I now have. Then too, that material is not cheap either. |
Well smaller monitors plus separate subs gives you greater ease and flexibility for setup compared to two large heavy full range floorstanders but be sure still the room will accommodate that as well.
If you want to be able to optimize with fewest constraints a dedicated room if possible is best. |
They are a bit pricey and rarely do they come out on the used market, but if you can afford them Silverline 17's are superb. |
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@rockadanny
She’s put up with my music system in the LR for 45 yrs now so I guess I can keep things as they are. But it would be nice to give her a room for "pretty" So this is far from a new experience for her or me. I have Silverline Sonatas now (floor standers) I'm just wondering if I can get equal sound with the monitors and subs (I now have) Unfortunately, I have too many hobbies and my drums & albums take one room. Attic isn’t big enough. Don’t have basement. Building an addition is the only alternative.
@b_limo
Really!!!! Is that the best suggestion you have? BTW Ya don’t have to be single to have a nice system. |
If silverlines aren’t aesthetically pleasing, try in walls or a bose wave radio.
I love being single! |
IME she’ll hate whatever you get so you’re better off commandeering a different room just for yourself (and good luck with that unless it is in the attic, basement, or garage). She may not say anything at first as she tries to allow you your silly sound hobby, but soon enough it’ll come out. Subs?! Ha! Women are room designers for visual aesthetics and speakers are never in their plans. Fair warning. And good luck. |
