Gustard R26 vs hi end streamer

The truth is the extra $400 is too much for me. I have Gustard r26 DAC and a $1100 master clock looks like an too expensive gadget for $1600 DAC.

I have a question about the new LHY - OCK-2"S" master clock.

Does anybody tried it with Gustard R26 or another DAC or streamer?

I tried to buy the old OCK-2 model on Aliexpress and eBay. But each time I ordered it sellers told me the old model is sold out and out of production.

Alright, I’ve had the R26 for about three weeks now, with at least 200-250 hours of playback time. It sounds pretty good—neutral and rich—but not as natural-sounding as I’d prefer.

That said, the other two DACs I own—the Cambridge MXN10’s internal DAC and the SMSL D6s—perform just as well as the R26 in areas like detail, tonal balance, soundstage, instrument separation, and bass. To my ears, all of these traits range from very good to excellent.  All these three DACs are able to preserve these sound traits in the recording pretty well.

However, when you consider the price, there’s an almost ninefold disparity between them. So, is the SMSL D6s exceptionally good for its price, or is the R26 just comparable to a highly capable entry-level Delta-Sigma DAC? Is the R26 simply overhyped?

My signal chain is mxn10 -> DAC -> Cambridge Azur 851A or Parasound A23 -> Wharfedale Linton or Buchardt S400 mkII.

My chain of signal is as follows: MXN10 (optical)-> R26 (xlr, gatham star-quad cable) -> Cambridge Azur 851A (Belden 5T00UP 10awg speaker cable) -> Linton.

Linton has an elevated treble and is less forgiving of relatively poorer recordings. The R26 is neutral; any shortcomings should be attributed to the speaker, not the R26. I just hope that an R2R DAC like the R26 could help tone down the brightness.

I tried a better recording (by Nemanja Radulovic), and the sound through my system was much improved. It's still a bit bright for my taste, but much more liquid and refined.

@lanx0003 Interesting.  I've never felt that my R26 was bright.  I'm using a tube preamp, so that may help. 

I have various cables that have differing degrees of brightness.  A couple of them tend to soften the sound compared to others.  I don't know if you have any cable options to try?  

@sls883  I used "med" but tried "slow" to mitigate the brightness. It does have some effect, but not significant enough, and it adversely impacts the details. "Fast" is a bit too much for my system. NOS is not a preferred option for R26 I found.

@lanx0003 Makes sense.  Have you tried changing the filter setting on the R26?  I prefer the fast setting, but that isn't the default setting. Fast is the most detailed, but maybe not what works best in your system.  There is also a setting for NOS.  

@sls883  I planned to send it back because of the clicking noise.  It turns out the volume level was not an issue. It was caused by the DSD toggle on/off and I just need to remember to adjust the volume up to 'fixed / maxed' level.  Before sending it back, I want to fully evaluate it to see if I need a replacement or different kind of DAC.  X30 is definitely under my radar but TBH it is outside my budget limit I am willing to spend at this point without fully exploring all options.

Responding to the original post.  I can weigh in on the 2nd question.  I would go with a separate streamer.  I started with integrated like many others and have moved to separates in all my equipment over time.  Bought a used Innuos Zen Mk3 from a local dealer to stream to my Holo Audio Cyan 2.  It sounds better than using my Blusound Node N130 as a streamer.  I like the BluOs app and operating system but the Sense app and system is even better in my experience.  

@lanx0003 I recall your post about clicking. Sounds like your R26 has issues. I think I'd send it back if you can.

It sounds like the Cambridge streamer sounds good.  My son's cxa60 has a built-in dac and it sounds really good.  Better than the dac in a Node. And your Cambridge is a big step up from the cxa60. 

This crazy hobby can be a real money pit. I don't want to spend your money for you, but I don't think you'd be disappointed with the X-30. It's as good as I'll ever need.  I could have sent it back to Aoshida, but I opted to keep it. 

@sls883  I need to apologize for claiming the R26 streamer's performance was awful. I believe there’s a glitch in the unit I currently own. For some unknown reason that I haven’t yet identified, the LAN output weakens to a very low level. When I increase the volume, the sound is indeed 'awful' and I jumped to a conclusion after experiencing it once. The streamer in the R26 actually sounds as good, if not better, as the MXN10 and better than Ifi ZS.  Fortunately, this glitch did not affect the volume level when I evaluate R26 as a DAC. As you know also my unit has another clicking noise glitch.

@lanx0003 I'm listening to Maria Duenes and it sounds wonderful. I don't care for a lot of classical music, but this is something I enjoy. As I mentioned, I'm not a good judge of violin music, but it sounds great.

I wasn't trying to say anything negative about your Cambridge gear. They make great stuff. I own some. I bought my first Cambridge piece around 35 years ago. 

I didn't get great results hooking my cd player to the R26 using coaxial digital. I felt that the dac in the Denon DCD-1700NE sounded better. I bought a better coaxial cable and that closed the gap. I never tried optical.  But, that could be why the Cambridge streamer/dac sounds just as good as the R26..  I used the I2s connection on the R26 for streaming. 

Thanks for the music recommendation.

@deep_333 

I am not sure if you actually own Linton or had given it a fair trial.  The trerrific soundstage, flat response (see below) and nimble bass are the three main reasons I kept them for a good two years and might be many more years to come.  Look at the flat in-room response from Erin's measurements.  Lack of details, might be, but that is not the trait I had concern with. 

The concern I am having is related to the elevated treble beyond 10khz.  The tactic is to mitigate it is to toe them out a bit but that does not fully address the issue.  That is why I am looking for a DAC that could do the trick, starting with r2r DAC.  I acquired Saga 2 when it was announced and like it.  But the Cambridge Azur 851A's preamp could sweeten the sound as good as Saga 2 if not better.  I had tried AKM chips-based DAC but sound is a bit too warm for me.

I will give R26 one more week and, if not working, move onto the next which might be Qutest, gumby (as you have suggested) / yggi or hybrid or pure tube DAC like Black-Ice.

I could eq the treble region too but not really like what wiim pro + sounds in comparison (w/ MXN10).  Additionally, eq sound does not really sweeten / liquify the sound I found.

@lanx0003 

Yes, i've heard the Linton, opened it up, etc. P. Comeau never engineers a bad speaker. It is well designed, but, constrained by the budget he worked with. Elysian 2 or higher (3-way Elysians) is his high end, bigger budget item. The latter's AMT tweeter integration with mid driver, choice of crossover, crossover parts quality, etc sum to a higher resolution speaker than the Linton. 

The resolution bottle neck is always the aft end, i.e., speaker and room...and dacs hit diminishing returns a lot quicker, i.e. within a couple of hundred bucks when the aft end bottleneck didn't get any better.

Inadequacies ( digitosis, whatever) in the front end can be salvaged to some degree, made to sound pleasant with class A-ish linestage/amps. I suggested the Saga 2 class A as it is at a charity price from the Schiitr for what it is. I've been using it with my headphones in recent days. Since you don't seem to be a purist guy, lots of things open up for you. Wiim Ultra full PEQ...adjust to taste...sweeten/liquify it up with some class A-ish aft end...Gungnir plays well in the middle there, etc (not to mention the  5 year Schiit warranty and ease of getting things fixed with local shipping to Texas, if needed. Chifi, Euro stuff....no such luck)

@lanx0003 I've had the X-30 for a couple of weeks.  Not really long.  If you go direct to Aoshida, they don't charge sales tax.  Amazon will. They are very good about replying to emails although their time is about 12 hours different.  I saved over $500 by purchasing direct (with the discount and tax savings). Normal price is $3,000 + tax.

I'll try to take a listen to the violin, but I haven't heard many real violins, so I don't know if I'll be a good judge for you.  I'm very familiar with other acoustic instruments as my mother and son are both musicians.  

I don't know what your budget is, but I can recommend the Gustard X-30 dac.  It's pretty awesome.  I bought mine direct from Aoshida for $2,700 shipped.  They have a decent return policy.  If you return it, you would pay shipping to North Carolina and around $135 in PayPal fees. 

I'm using it with my Innuos Zen Mk3 streamer.

There are several positive review videos on the X-30. 

@deep_333 

I am not sure if you actually own Linton or had given it a fair trial.  The trerrific soundstage, flat response (see below) and nimble bass are the three main reasons I kept them for a good two years and might be many more years to come.  Look at the flat in-room response from Erin's measurements.  Lack of details, might be, but that is not the trait I had concern with. 

The concern I am having is related to the elevated treble beyond 10khz.  The tactic is to mitigate it is to toe them out a bit but that does not fully address the issue.  That is why I am looking for a DAC that could do the trick, starting with r2r DAC.  I acquired Saga 2 when it was announced and like it.  But the Cambridge Azur 851A's preamp could sweeten the sound as good as Saga 2 if not better.  I had tried AKM chips-based DAC but sound is a bit too warm for me.

I will give R26 one more week and, if not working, move onto the next which might be Qutest, gumby (as you have suggested) / yggi or hybrid or pure tube DAC like Black-Ice.

I could eq the treble region too but not really like what wiim pro + sounds in comparison (w/ MXN10).  Additionally, eq sound does not really sweeten / liquify the sound I found.

Picked up a used R26 (recommended by fellow Agon’r) last year ($1100) for my second system to replace a Black Ice Glass DSD Dac and Ifi Zen Stream. Simplified and vastly Improved functionality over the temperamental  Zen Stream.   Noticably improved sound quality  is excellent and I am very happy and I have no issues with it’s streamer.  I do notice it isn’t quite as warm and full sounding when comparing it to my Mojo Mystique Evo Dac / Bricasti M5 on my main system.  But it definitely holds it own and I am very happy with the way it draws me into the music just in a different way.  My simple second system is Raven Blackhawk Integrated Amp, Gustard R26, Stack Audio Smooth Lan, optical FMC filtering, Sonictransporter Roon Core, Roon, Fritz Monitors.

My son is using my R26 with a Cambridge CXA-60 integrated amp (also mine, lol).  He's using a Bluesound Node for a streamer.  It sounds really good, but he's got the system crammed into a small bedroom (less than ideal).  Speakers are Wharfedale Diamond 10.7 which are pretty nice for the money.  He has a huge cabinet between them and the speakers can't be pulled out into the room.  I'd like to hear the system in a larger room.

Wharfdale Linton & Burchardt S400 mkII), both have quiet background, sound transparent, good SS, decent bass BUT R26 does not outperform my $400 MXN10’s DAC.

a) Sell Linton, not resolving enough...Move up to the Elysian

b) Treat your room, increase room's resolution 

c) Sell Gustard with some mustard. 

d) Get the new Schiit Gungnir 2 dac, all R2R goodness made in America.

e) Make things liquid by getting the Schiit Saga 2 Class A preamp.

f) Bring ultimate glory by getiing 2 Schiit Tyr Class A-ish continuity monoblock amps.

g) Welcome to the world of American Schiit..the Schiitiest world to be in....Hold hands with the other Schiits as we walk into the sunset together.

I tried Ifi ZS which has isolated asynchronous usb with R26 already and it does not resolve the issue.  MXN10 sounds better (than Ifi) so I stay with it.  

Maybe Audirvana sounds better than MConnect, but I doubt it can make that big of a difference. The reason I call it awful (sorry for the strong wording; how about "at best average" used by the other gentelman here) is that it costs over $1k more yet sounds worse than the MXN10, iFi Zen Stream, and Wiim. Both my primary (humble) and secondary (still humble) systems can easily reveal the sound quality disparity. 

The R26 sounds best when using I2s or USB inputs, in my opinion.  The Cambridge only has coaxial and optical outputs if I'm not mistaken. 

I've streamed with the renderer in the R26 using Audirvana software. I certainly wouldn't call it awful. 

Both Cambridge int amp and streamer are endorsed by Stereophile so there is no need for concern.  I stand by my previous statement, i.e., at this point, R26 sounds good but performs at most as well as MXN10 internal DAC.  Both are neutral but I expect the R26, with its r2r topology, to sweeten / smooth the midrange / treble better than the ESS-based delta sigma DAC in MXN10 but it doesn't.

Give Maria Duenas's II. Larghetto Beethoven Violin Concerto in D major, Op. 61, in her 'Beethoven and Beyond' album a listen (24/96 in Qobus) and let me know how you feel about the violin timbre. 

DACs use electrolytic capacitors in power supply that need a very long burn in. Amplifiers need less time. In my experience with Chord and SMSL DACs it was 3 weeks plugged in AC. And height frequencies finally improved at the end of this period.  

And you're certain that the sounds that you hear are coming from the R-26 and neither the Cambridge integrated or Cambridge streamer?  I've not read any reviews that indicate the issues that you've had.  

As I mentioned earlier, the bass improves, which is the first noticeable change within the first week. The piano notes gradually settle as well, but the timbre and overtones of the violin sound unnatural and somewhat raspy. Sibilance isn’t well-controlled either and I'm not sure if it could be further tamed (feedback please). I have the time and patience, but I don’t want to wait 200–300 hours only to find that the tone is still unnatural, as some have reported. That’s quite a lot of burn-in time for this R2R DAC.

I prefer my CCA via optical to the sound of the R26 internal steamer for Roon.  I do love the R26 sound (have 2 of em), and I utilize the i2s input in my desktop system via ddc with good results.

The sound quality of my R26 with my Innuos streamer was excellent.

I also tried the renderer/streamer in the R26 with Audivarna software. The sound quality was quite good, but I had issues with Audivarna. 

Hi @lanx0003 ,

For any DAC I had 100hour of break-in - it is nothing!

For example I run a new Chord Qutest around 200 hours and was sure it plays on 90% of it potential. Then I didn’t listen to it for 2 weeks. But is was plugged in to AC without playing music. When I listened to it again I was shocked how the sound of the DAC was improved.

To make any decision the DAC shod be plugged in AC for 3 weeks + 200-300 hours of playing music.

I think, altogether, I have put more than 100 hours on the R26. Today, I did a side-by-side listening test using the MXN10 as both a streamer and a DAC. With my Cambridge Azur 851A integrated amplifier, I could switch back and forth between the R26 and the MXN10’s internal DAC, allowing me to hear the differences almost instantaneously. I needed to do a bit of volume matching (+/- 3dB). With MXN10 as the streamer (Wharfdale Linton & Burchardt S400 mkII), both have quiet background, sound transparent, good SS, decent bass BUT R26 does not outperform my $400 MXN10’s DAC.

BTW, the R26’s streamer through the mConnect renderer sounds awful—much worse than the MXN10 or iFi ZS, those low-end streamers (price-wise). Well, time to move on. Following the highly raved Eversolo A6, this is the second higher-end streamer/DAC that has disappointed me.

I had the Gustard R26. 

It sounded great but not better than the Dac Streamer in the Eversolo A8. Sold my R26 and haven't looked back.

Hi @sls883 ,

So far I found a solution to plug and unplug USB cable into ET3 (I have easy access to do it). It is not a big problem for me because I listen to PCM (CDs and files) 95% of the time.

In one month I will receive my old SMSL do300ex (AK4499) DAC from maintenance. It will be my DAC dedicated to DSD.

The U18 wouldn't work in your case because you'd still be using the USB output. 

@alexberger I Googled the Shanling manual and it says "USB is set as priority for the system.  if you want to use a different digital output, please make sure USB Audio Output is not connected".

I2s would probably work, but you'd have to figure out the pinout connection.  I use a Gustard U18 ddc which converts USB to a Gustard type I2s output. 

Hi @sls883

Yes, coaxial works when I unplug USB.

The problem is only when both cables are plugged.

I need both these cables because PCM sound better with Coaxial cable, but I need USB cable for playing DSD files.

You should be able to switch inputs on the Gustard. I did it with my cd player and streamer. 

Are you sure that the Shanling will output through USB and coaxial at the same time?  Maybe try unplugging the USB cable from Shanling and see if coaxial works. I'm guessing, but it's worth a shot 

I got my Gustard R26 today.

I connected it to my Shanling ET3 transport by USB and Coaxial cables. When selecting USB input it works, but when I select Coaxial input I can hear music playing for a second and after it is silent. But when I unplug USB coaxial input is playing.

Is it any solution to use a number of cables plugged in and switch inputs with Gustard R26?

I read here on this forum that r2r dacs need a very long break in.

But my experience shows that it is true for sigma delta dacs too.

Qutest was playing 200 hours but the sound was improved after it was plugged in AC during 3 weeks. The same story with SMSL DAC it started sound good after 3 weeks plugged in plus more than 200 hours playing music. 

I also ordered Gustard R26. I will probably get in next week.

I had Chord Qutest for 5 years and now I have an SMSL DO300EX (AK4499 chip). I also have an old Cary cd-303/100 CD player on a Burr-Brown PCM1704u chip. 

I mostly listen to jazz and classical music.

I like my super affordable SMSL DO300EX more than Qutest. It handles better symphonic music with more details, separation and less congestion. It also sounds less sterile.

But it doesn't have the dynamics, energetics, separation and big soundstage of a Cary CD player. It plays music without emotions. Despite both Qutest and SMSL outperforming Cary in terms of details, focus and natural tone of instruments and vocals.

So, I hope Gustard r26 gives me the best of both worlds.

@arafiq 

I appreciate your insight. However, I later realized that the Pontus' NOS mode isn't truly NOS until the 15th version. Even the 12th version is an emulation (though close). I’ve decided to pause and dive deeper into this technical aspect before fully committing to an R2R DAC. Regarding the DDC, I’m inclined to skip it and, if needed, consider a higher-end model like the Venus instead. I recall Tarun mentioning that combining the Pontus II with the Iris could offer a Venus-like sound. As I get older, I prefer to have fewer components on the rack.

The R26's sound characteristics continue to improve over time. The initially weaker bass that some people critique has become weightier. I value controlled, nimble bass over quantity, but it still needs to have a weighty initial attack. The R26 is quite neutral, yet not as natural-sounding as I’d like. We'll see.

Hi @lanx0003 Just a few caveats before I respond ... while I kept the Pontus much longer, I only had the R26 for less than a month since I returned it to Amazon during the trial period. It’s quite likely that my perception was biased since I had the Pontus for a longer duration. With that out of the way ...

As far as I remember, my Pontus had the original firmware. I had a chance to upgrade but I heard differing opinions, some negative, so decided not to roll the dice. My thinking was why fix something that ain’t broken :)

Never tried the DDC. In hindsight, I should have done that before selling the Pontus. But based on impressions by a few friends who also own a Pontus, the difference in SQ is not subtle at all. They all feel it was a worthwhile investment. I only sold the Pontus because I dismantled and sold my office system to fund the main system. Otherwise, I had no intentions of selling it.

Overall, I would say the Pontus was sorta like the goldilocks of DACs in its respective price category. The sound was very balanced with a hint of warmth. It wasn’t trying to be the most detailed and high resolution DAC. Instead the emphasis was more at a macro level with musicality as the primary goal. I thought it offered a natural timbre and most instruments sounded pretty good. No, it’s not as good as other high priced DACs, but you will be hard pressed to beat the Pontus within it’s price category.

The R26 on the other hand was more focused on micro level nuances, had a wider soundstage (though not necessarily deeper), and had a more ’hifi’ sound if you know what I mean. In the end, I preferred the warm, slightly lush and organic presentation of the Pontus. But it wasn’t like I could not live with the Gustard. They both offer above average value, but perhaps cater to slightly different sound parameters,

Hope this helps.

@arafiq  I read your review comparing the R26 with the Pontus II. I’m in a similar situation now, more than a year later, and hope you could clarify a few points to help me make an informed decision.

(1) Does the Pontus II you had back then have the original firmware (prior to V1.4)?  

(2) Have you ever updated to V1.4 and, if so, how were the changes in sound signature?

(3) Have you ever tried DDC with Pontus II and, if so, how were the changes in sound signature?

(4) I mainly listening to Jazz and classical music.  How Pontus II handles Complex Instrumentation in Classical Music.  Does the Pontus II perform well with orchestral complexity, capture subtle dynamics and maintain coherence in dense arrangements?  Having a R2R architecture, does the Pontus II offer a natural timbre, making strings and woodwinds feel lifelike, and manage to retain warmth and clarity even in highly intricate compositions?

Appreciated for your feedback.

Keeping the streamer separate from the DAC is good (IMO), which appears to be your intention. I.e. If you first upgrade your DAC, you should not sell your NA8005, regardless of whether or not the new DAC has streaming capability.

I already had separate Antipodes server/streamer/PS, which is a big step up from the streamer sections of A26 / R26. Perhaps they are another one to consider in your next round of upgraditis. (Antipodes also have awesome backup support service. I can't comment on Gustard backup, as I have not yet needed any).

I have not listened to the lineup being discussed, but based on the OP desire for 'relaxed, warm' suggest staying with your R2R options. The X26 mentioned is likely to be more detailed and brighter than my Gustard A26. I really do like my A26, but would not describe it as warm and relaxed.

The Gustard is a very detailed dac for a R2R I thought it should be much warmer ,natural sounding it was more neutral sounding then expected , the streamer side 

these guys suck at answering emails and slow on needed streamer updates 

the streamer side degraded the dacs performance a bit ,better to use the dacs features imo, my wife had me sell it,the latest blue sound node has a better streamer  just buy for the streamer ,dac not too good.

@curiousjim I have not updated my Pontus yet. I’m a little apprehensive after reading the experiences of some people as reported on the other thread here. Looks like some people disliked it so much that they reverted to the original state.

It sounds so damn good right now that I keep thinking why fix it if it ain’t broke. I’ll probably wait till the dust settles a bit.

@arafiq 

Did you do the latest update on your Pontus ll?

What are your thoughts?

Thanks.

Soix is correct (as usual), based on your preference for a warner, analog presentation; I'd highly recommend the Pontus II 12th anniversary R2R DAC. I have had the Pontus II (non 12th anniversary) in my system for a couple of years, and I am in no hurry to upgrade it.....the sound is sublime. Great punch and attack, beautiful vocals, wide and high soundstage (though not as deep), instrument clarity and separation, and not at all harsh or fatiguing. But there are other DACs that are more detailed on top, if that is your thing.

If you then want to take things to another level, you could always add the Denafrips Iris DDC between your streamer and Pontus II with an I2S cable.

Best of luck to you

Hi arafiq,

I do not use roon. An expense I don’t need.

Inuos pulse mini is fed from ethernet, with the long 25 ft run between router and mini converter to fiber, then back to ethernet.  I wanted strictly a streamer, it can send to many dacs. In the sense app, just choose setting standalone and choose mini out to another dac.. make sure the dac, if using as preamp, is turned down, before connecting.  On pulse mini, choose the dac you want to be playing, must set mini’s volume out to max, and enjoy (i have two dacs I switched between going into preamp..). I have an smsl su-10 for the electronica stuff.. for me some type of music sounds “better” on a delta sigma, while almost all of what I listen to sounds better on r2r.  By the way, you can really hear the difference twixt fast and slow if playing iron maiden or metallica at… unhealthy levels   ;-p   The dac included with the mini will be ok if I ever have an issue with the gustard, so it is a “decent” back up.

The only other “streamer” I’ve ever had was a bluesound node 2i and there is just no comparison there.

I am still exploring all the features of the mini though.  

but, I can for sure say that I am happy with the pulse mini and it doing what I wanted it to do… hardwired network streaming…. nothing else.

And I could not care less what places like asr say, I can hear the difference and I know what is pleasing to me.

@jjss49 Did you happen to see the Eversolo dac+streamer combo review by Steve Huff? Yes, I know we're talking about Steve Huff, so the usual caveats, grain of salt, etc. apply as always :)

But still looks to be fantastic value for what you pay for.