“Hamilton” is a Rap masterpiece!

“I’m not throwing away my shot!”
Third time may be a charm.
Yes, true that much of Rap is strident and confrontational. Not mention the other negative elements.
But in my examination of many of the suggestions of people’s favorite Rap, I have indeed, discovered many pieces that are brilliant and fascinating. There is no denying that the musical value is extreme and undeniable.
A true art form developed over decades, there is much true innovation.
My personal taste leans heavily toward traditional song structure and, as such, prefers Rap with strong melodic elements. However, I understand the passion and creativity behind Rap based on a more rhythmic basis. Also true that the ever present anger is difficult to take but understandable. It is sad that there is so much.
But it is absolutely clear that “Hamilton” is a modern masterpiece of Rap. Brilliantly telling the story of this central figure in our founding. Engaging and gripping.
The last two Rap threads were shut down because members were frequently criticized for their opinions.
There is no question that Rap engenders much feeling. Can we agree to disagree?

MillerCarbon should be arriving to comment soon, which should put this all to rest when this post - and yet somehow NOT he, himself - is deleted from Audiogon because he starts a flame war. 
You can kick me off, AG. I won’t cry. I’ll buy and sell things on less expensive and less toxic sites. 
But you really should remove him. 
He’s just bad for business. 
If he comments again, I’m out. And good luck to you all. 
Hamilton is revisionist racist buffoonery. What is it with you and your obsession with racism?

Buh, bye Leonard Flynnard! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89tIZA2B23A

Hamilton is a great modern day opera. Mozart would have loved it. Beethoven would have grungily admitted it was good. Wagner would have hated it as being too short and not having enough Gods and nymphs. 
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“Will somebody please tell me "What is a Liberal"?”

Someone who believed in live and let live and free speech.
@ngiordano your posts are unhelpful. @orpheus10 is a wonderful Audiogon friend to all and undeserving of your insults. That was uncalled for and unkind.

A liberal is someone who believes that everyone helping everyone is better than the alternative. A liberal can actually be fiscally conservative as many are. A liberal believes there are thresholds to which all humanity should be lifted economicaly because its actually better financially than the alternative not to mention kinder. Opportunity is not equally distributed and its up to all of us to do what we can to ensure a fair chance for all.

Alot of people are scared these days, dog whistles are abundant and the flow of information today travels so much faster than ever before. I used to believe that the pockets of bigotry and hatred and cruelty were the result of a lack of education or exposure to diverse peoples and thoughts. Unfortunately, I believe these things are fear based. A person from a certain area or race could rest well knowing there was another person relegated to a rung on the ladder lower than them. Then they discover and feel rage that people are mobile when given a fair chance. Through equal opportunity and hard work and access to education and ideas and knowledge, we can discover that we live in a world where its possible where a non white or non male can do as fine or even a better job in a profession as anyone else.

A liberal believes that even the non liberal deserves an equal chance at happiness although the inverse is rarely true. A liberal believes that everyone is free to worship (or not) in a way that they find comforting, a non liberal believes that everyone is free to worship in their way…or else!….that America and freedom of religion go hand in hand but that they are categorically seperate.

Can we agree to disagree?
We quit agreeing to disagree, 10-15 yrs ago. Now we have cancel culture like @flynnrd has proposed for MC. Guess where this came from? This is what happens when a group of people cannot win the debate on the merits of their ideas alone which I can guarantee applies to @flynnrd and others here who call for MC’s cancellation. .

Study some history, especially that of 1933-1942 Germany. Cancellation of people who’s ideas you do not agree morphs into cancelling (killing) the person &/or group sooner or later. Germany, Armenia, and countless genocides started in the same way. When agreeing to disagree disappears, bloodshed usually follows.

I cannot speak to "Hamilton" except from sources I trust. I believe they agree that it is revisionist history. I know that IMO, they did themselves no favors by calling out & belittling the VP when he was in the audience, rather than continuing the show.
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Does a liberal also call people who object to a piece of art, a racist
as your friend Orpheus did here?
It's apparent to me that the deleters here at Agon are the problem. They got some kind of "Black people Psychosis"

@artemus_5 sometimes history needs revising. The first version of history is always written by the powerful and the victorius in a given conflict. The first version is rarely much more accurate than the first revision. Its a free and unfettered press that usually helps humanity see the truth, even if they choose to look away. A couple of recent examples you mention like Kristallnacht and the Armenian genocide were perpetuated by the far right who despised liberal principles. Thankfully the truth came out because survivors escaped and a free press reported it. Other recent examples:the Gulf of Tonken and WMD. 

I havent seen Hamilton although I understand it is a well done event. I also believe that an American has a right to boo or disapprove of Mike Pence or Bill Clinton. One way streets are not ideal are they.

no one is trying to virtue signal or cancel culture anyone. In fact, its those being called on the carpet for expressing an illogical or unkind opinion who cry foul. Its ok to express that you believe a certain $5,000 speaker is better than a $50,000 speaker. Its not ok to insist a racist or bigotry based statement isnt racist or bigoted. Feel and believe whatever you want but dont claim up is down and expect universal agreement.
@artemus_5 they do if that’s what they believe. 

Does a liberal also call people who object to a piece of art, a racist
as your friend Orpheus did here?
It's apparent to me that the deleters here at Agon are the problem. They got some kind of "Black people Psychosis" 

Oddly enough, I have yet to see Hamilton! I feel like I'm one of the last people to say that even as it's available both on streaming and on stage. Maybe cuz I just never got into musicals in the first place. All that notwithstanding, though, I'll get around to see it eventually.
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I was bored to tears, and had to feign excitement when I saw it years ago. Yawn.

A good friend used to babysit the creator.

Just my take. Never got onboard  with anything associated with Rap/Hip Hop etc. Found it odd in the early 80's. Now that it's mainstream in culture, even more. Pass
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“Will somebody please tell me "What is a Liberal"?”

Is the person who asked for millercarbon to be removed considered a liberal?

"If he comments again, I’m out."

Ten hours and one millercarbon's post later...

"Goodbye Audiogon. You are not the same person I once knew."

You do not seem to keep your word. Not in this thread, at least. Is everything else you said worth believing?

Glupson, I'm more into honest or dishonest; we've been ripped off by Republicans, Democrats, Liberals, Conservatives, Black, and White politicians of all kinds; would you feel better being ripped off by a "White Conservative"?
I would much rather leave politics out of this board. But the can of worms  has been opened and erroneous ideas abound. 

You say revisionist history is good. That is nonsense. In a court of law, the witnesses to an event are most reliable, NOT the one who heard about is 4-5-6th hand in the neighborhood gossip. Its called revisionist because it contradicts the eyewitness accounts with an interpretation most often more suitable for their bias. In college I did Master’s papers base or original sources which are witnesses to the event and/or the 1st hand info. That is what true historians look at, Not gossip. But there again, I suppose it fits your bias. Too bad you don’t value truth.

I suspect your interpretation of what a liberal is, is what most people want, liberal or Conservative. The rub comes in how we accomplish these things. We disagree. But worse still is that we can no longer have a civil conversation because the liberal CANNOT defend his ideas on the merits of their argument. One psychiatrist wrote a book entitled "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder". After spending years debating them on various political forums I sense that is correct.
However, I also doubt that many who claim liberalism as their political stance are actually liberal. And certainly not today where the Marxist faction has taken over the Democrat Party with Fake news as the propaganda arm.

You say there is no cancel culture all the while people voices are being silenced if they do not go along with the propaganda. Doctors are silenced for prescribing a KNOWN treatment for covid because the Liberals & Marxists don't want it used. Opinion writers like Glenn Greenwald et al are routinely dismissed from their platform because they have a different opinion. People leave Facebook because they have been silenced by "fact checkers from Communist China among others. Others here call for MC's removal because they disagree with his opinion. I could give more examples about voting irregularities, revisionist history, etc, but I highly doubt you will ever do any true research on your own to try to prove me wrong. I suspect your mind has been conditioned to believe what you want to believe. I’ve asked too many libs/Marxists to do their own research and not take my word for it. I got cancelled by all the ones I asked to do that. As I said previously, this usually leads to bloodshed sooner or later.


This "Liberal" "Conservative" dichotomy was created by the racist who divide and conquer.

Divide & conquer is definitely taking place. But "racist" is the new term used for that very thing.

But a question please about Hamilton. I have not seen it but read the "cliff Notes’ perse’. Why is a black cast performing the life of Hamilton? Or is it a completely black cast? Is it their interpretation of Hamilton, the US or something else? Thanks

Gotta go to birthday party now for a lovely 7 yr old niece.
Rap is entwined with complex social issues both real/BS much more than any other genre.

Best to leave it out of thread discussions. This is for audiophools like myself. Go to a Rap forum and discuss it with DJ Insignificant.
If there isn’t one, start a one. Clearly there’s interest.

Debate/argue about audio gear and accessories, that’s what this forum is about.

Gotta wonder about complaining of the "complete de-evolution of a once-great forum", while in the next breath complaining about the "incessant whine of Nazis" that post. Exaggerate much? Or are you that ignorant about who the Nazis really were?
Maybe some self-reflection is in order. Other people say things you don’t like. Get over it.
And if you want to see some good rap, Google Tom MacDonald.
"Doctors are silenced for prescribing a KNOWN treatment for covid..."

What is it?
Hydroxychloroquine was shown to be very effective. Trump mentioned it early on, so it must be bad.
"Hydroxychloroquine was shown to be very effective."

Oooops, I hoped for something that works (for COVID).

For the longest, it was as if "Rap" was the forbidden genre, we never discussed it. There is no way you can discuss "Rap", without discussing the "sub culture" that brought it about.

"Sub Culture"; out side of the mainstream culture, one that was created by economic and sociological "realities" that result in a group of people who have to make their own rules in order to survive.

When employment opportunities are 0 and the baby is crying, they will do what they have to do. What would you do?

Choices are slim; sell dope, be a stickup man, or other illegal activities that will generate "money".
"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

Is the kitchen in an ice-cream shop still called kitchen?
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No, not everyone on this board. But this hobby is seriously graying and I would vouchsafe that most of those ( perhaps your company not included) would fall into that category. I mean, they can't even talk about a Broadway musical that's about his mainstream as you can get without showing their fear of change

Topics are: amps, preamps; Home theater, Speakers, Digital, Analog, Cables, Music, Best of, Tech Talk, PC Audio, Audio Clubs, Misc Audio, Member Reviews, Head Phones, Smart Home, Pro Audio, and Vintage.

Now I ask you, with all those choices, why would someone pick this thread to visit, if they did not want to discuss what is being discussed?
@tablejockey a good friend of yours used to babysit Lin-Manuel Miranda? That's kind of cool. Did ever tell this forum about the time I made Norah Jones cry?
"But this hobby is seriously graying..."

It is great if it is graying. Many complain it is balding.
artemus- Why is a black cast performing the life of Hamilton? Or is it a completely black cast? Is it their interpretation of Hamilton, the US or something else?

It is indeed something else. As I said in the beginning Hamilton is revisionist racist bufoonery. The people who write and watch this drivel are so ignorant of history it is almost unfathomable. What I mean is no matter how dimwitted you think they are, faster than you can turn around they come up with something even dumber!

Hamilton is part of the same ideology that produced the 1619 Project, another totally made up re-write of actual history.

The premise or foundational understanding of all of this is that the United States of America is not just another country that started off imperfect like all the others, but that racism and oppression are our whole reason for being. I know. Insane. But they really do believe this. A lot of the same people posting approval really do believe this. Most of them are simply too cowardly to come out and say it. But their actions speak volumes. Look what they go out of their way to promote- a play that stands American history on its head, making out the country that did more than any other to abolish slavery out as racist to the core.  

The people who can watch Hamilton, let alone laud it as art, reprehensible does not even begin to cover it.

Notice they have nothing to come back with. That is why all you ever get from them is shut up. They attack you personally, because they have nothing intellectually to come up with. All they can do is keep insisting, keep bullying, hope you will just shut up. When that doesn’t work they will physically make you shut up, which is what they have done by removing every post containing actual lyrics. They cannot stand to see just how bankrupt their twisted views are, so they cover their eyes. Which is fine. Go live in ignorance. Live and let live.

But notice they will not just live and let live. Their disgusting topics have been removed every single time, and yet they keep coming back flaunting the fact they know they have no place here. Sad. So very, very sad.

As for Hamilton: Pathetic.
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"And I'll be doing my best to get your posts removed from any threads that I start for that very same reason."

Where is the one who was calling people liberal? We need some guidance here.