nonoise, that and other reasons is why we left TX behind us...:( When we 'got to TX as fast as we could' in '91, Houston was staggering back onto it's feet. It was (in some ways) a relief from the S.F./Bay area which was exploding and imploding at the same time. Silicone Fever...when it was new, it was exciting as is any 'rush'. ;) What's become of the beloved "City by the Bay" isn't pretty, and we surfed the initial shock waves Out. It shocked our friends, our employers..."We can't live here anymore....too much of Anything isn't good in the long run...." The same with Houston...visited friends in '18, looked around once again...*sighed*, and felt relieved we'd again dodged a sort of weird bullet that we recognize it's 'approach'. I was born and 'raised' (in many ways) in L.A. and those environs...*S* It's still 'home', but in '76 I took this song to heart....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLAuzVb-C_o
Haven't regretted that move, either...;) (Read the comments...Yup....*S*...and J.J.W's lyrics spell it out better than I could or can, even now...) "Born to Run"? Well, I guess, kinda...We've stopped now....getting too tired and old for 'one more go at it'.... And here, at the edge of the Blue Ridge is still nice enough to sit 'n stay. Do what we do...until we can't. *S* May y'all be so lucky, if you find yourselves in what you'd consider the same for you and yours; ;) |
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It's best to avoid them both. |
What does the poop on the sidewalks and the stuff that comes out of right wing media have in common? |
"...why can't San Francisco afford to clean the poop off the sidewalks? Why is there even any in the first place???"
San Francisco has been considered city of freedoms etc. Maybe they need more government enforced rules about poop. |
Sorry to hear that, @djones51. Sounds like what happened in Kansas and Wisconsin. They initiated that great republican style of governing (corporate tax breaks, freezing wages, union busting, etc.) and bankrupted both states.
At least they got to "own" the libs. They still will not admit they were wrong. Some feel they should have gone further. That's how nuts they are.
It was just one of many criminal enterprises masquerading as a political party, sucking the citizens dry, and entrenching themselves in power.
To think that there are still people who fall for their lies is one of life’s great mysteries.
All the best,
Nonoise |
It just snowed here in Southern Oregon, but only one night and part of a day. Three days later it's gone, even in the hills close to me. |
I understand this is just a wasted argument the young today will take up the torch and work to help the environment we have already lost all credibility and wasted to much time. I hope it isn’t to late for them it is for us. We’re buried in greed and wild lunatic conspiracy theories the least we can do ifor them is keep pointing it out. |
I live in one of those red states that take more than they pay, a lot more. We have billions in unfunded pensions. We constantly rank in the bottom on health, top in smoking and opioids, 20th in taxes, 45th in education but we have a right to work law and try to make a woman’s choice illegal. I agree with Nonoise I would like to see states break even then maybe we could catch up with CA. Texas is getting purple probably be blue in 2 or 3 more election cycles. |
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If its so great, then why are so many leaving it for conservative states like Texas?
The population would be declining if it weren't for illegals. The biggest population increase in California is in the homeless.
If the economy is so great then why can't San Francisco afford to clean the poop off the sidewalks? Why is there even any in the first place???
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I'm a retiree in the state of California and am thankful for their forward thinking. All of the evils described above, and more, contribute to the state with the greatest economy in the nation. If California were a country, it would rank 5th in the world.
All the naysayers say if you raise taxes, wages, and have intelligent regulation, we should be on the losing side of things. We're not. Granted, we're not perfect, but you don't see California taking in more in federal assistance than we pay in taxes. In fact, we get less federal assistance than what we pay out.
We rank 26th in the nation in federal taxes (right in the middle) and yet pay enough to support all the takers in those other states that enjoy low state and federal taxes. If I had my way, they'd get only what they pay and stop leaching off of us. Then see how they fare.
It's one thing to whine and complain, quite another to live it.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Ok, so NASA,NOAA, Berkeley Earth, UK Met not to mention other climate scientists at various Universities and various agencies and independent groups in Europe, Asia the US are conspiring with the EPA and environmental groups to defraud taxpayers for environmental justice. Yep.... as my mother would say " Duck everyone here comes another flock". |
"Look no further than the State of California. Here’s how the state is run: The public employee unions donate heavily to the coffers of Democrat politicians. Once elected, the politicians do the bidding of the unions. On the side, they try to run the state. In reality, they have run the state into the ground. The unfunded liabilities of the State of Californa stands at over a trillion dollars ... mostly unfunded public employee retirement pensions. Ridiculous promises made by the unions and supported by the politicians ... with the taxpayers eventually on the hook." So, why exactly does anyone who figured it out live in California? Double the question if it that anyone decided to retire in California. |
- what benefit does the government get from faking it?
It allows for advancing an agenda. Form a government bureaucracy, say the EPA for example, then staff it with ideologues. Once the agency has been taken over, then charge businesses and property owners outlandish fines for dubious offenses. Once the fines are collected, transfer the money to radical environmental groups of like-mind in the form of government grants. This increases the power of both groups; the one receiving the grants and also the now entrenched bureaucrats at the EPA. All in the name, of course, of "environmental justice" and the "transformation of America." This is nothing new. The same thing has been done over and over. Hundreds of millions of the trillions spent on "The War on Poverty" since the 1960s have ended up in the hands of radical groups of various types in the form of government grants. Look no further than the State of California. Here’s how the state is run: The public employee unions donate heavily to the coffers of Democrat politicians. Once elected, the politicians do the bidding of the unions. On the side, they try to run the state. In reality, they have run the state into the ground. The unfunded liabilities of the State of Californa stands at over a trillion dollars ... mostly unfunded public employee retirement pensions. Ridiculous promises made by the unions and supported by the politicians ... with the taxpayers eventually on the hook. "what benefit does the government get from faking it?"
Follow the money. Hockey sticks, anyone?? Frank |
Nothing comes to mind, but, wait for it...... |
If one used common sense you would realize there is no way climate change is a government hoax. Why would they perpetrate a hoax about this? It's the one problem almost no one wants to deal with, what benefit does the government get from faking it?
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Am I the only one who’s creeped out by Tony Heller’s voice? I mean, come on! However, I am the first to admit he does not seem to lack any self esteem. To whit, he says in his accomplishments summary,
“You will be hard pressed to find anyone with a broader and more successful career in science, education, environment and engineering.”
The thing he’s apparently most proud of is his work on computer/game consoles, which doesn’t really tie in all that well with weather data analysis if you ask me.
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Don't forget Berkeley Earth and UK Met since their data matches NASA and NOAA . They have to be in on the conspiracy too. 🙄 |
What possible motive could NASA or NOAA have for doctoring the climate data? It doesn’t make sense. And if it doesn’t make sense it’s not true. Is the Deep State up to their old shenanigans again? 😬 |
I have a worm bin. Just sayin'. |
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.
---Upton Sinclair
It is useless to argue with a man whose opinion is based upon a personal or pecuniary interest.
---William Jennings Bryan
Doctors have a monopoly of medicine just as parsons have of God. You can’t get a parson to admit the arguements of an agnostic, because his salary depends on his not letting the agnostic refute him; and you can’t get an ordinary doctor to look kindly on psychoanalysis or autosuggestion because their success would make him superfluous. All this is not a question of the Life Force at all; it is a question of bread and butter.
---C.E.M. Joad
Never argue with a man whose job depends on not being convinced.
---H.L. Mencken
All the best,
Nonoise |
The desire to learn exist...I remember mine....Mine was also motivated by some helping adults...And basic education of children across the world is one of the most important task for survival.... I dont speak about educating all children in physics but in the basic needs of their actual living environment.... :) My argument for the climate problem solving was alimentation, education and protection all across the board of soil and trees and ecosystems...Not only schooling...Money must be redefined for example... Actual economical science as science is way behind astrology status ....( I am able to understand and read the 2 by the way and I can compared)… :) Those who reduce economy to finances instruments and finances mathematics are crooks not scientist even with a diploma ...Economy is too much complex science, like medicine, to be founded only on mathematics for finances affairs... One also assumes that once “everyone is educated” they will only vote people in who will act responsibly. Another huge leap of faith in my humble opinion. And also some democracies are possible that are not in the process of a dumbing down democracy, a problem already envisioned in his beginnings in America by Tocqueville... |
Please note I’m not saying there is no such a thing as a desire to learn. But your argument appears to be all you have to do to solve the “climate problem” is to educate everybody. And I’m saying you can’t educate everybody even if you wanted to desperately. One also assumes that once “everyone is educated” they will only vote people in who will act responsibly. Another huge leap of faith in my humble opinion.
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Your observation even being right does not annihilate the true desire for truth in human being.... This desire is like hunger when people are not totally programmed or destroyed by the environmental conditions (war or political chaos or lies)...This desire for truth is the only food with love that human needs...I will silence myself here because I will pass for a preacher.... :)
Perhaps it is the reason I loved mathematics so much, there is no lies there, and in there is the foetus of the science of tomorrow...I am optimist only because of that fact that I can clearly see...
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Knowledge can be defined as whatever’s left after you subtract out all the mumbo jumbo you forgot since you got out of school. From what I can tell most folks go to school to get a degree so they can get a good job. It has precious little to do with either the desire to learn or truth.
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You are right Geoffkait...
But the desire and love for truth begins before formal education... And it is also a choice of society...A choice that can be valorized...
When a great part of a society does not valorize truth, but agendas, the first consequence is social chaos...
Guess where we can observe these facts at different levels of manifestation ? Pick a country and put that country in the scale consisting of 3 levels : Valorize truth mostly, half and half society, and finally those that does not valorize truth or cannot valorize truth no more...You will have the 3 steps toward chaos...
This is true not only for all compared societies on earth now but it is true for each one of them in the different steps of his own history...
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Education cannot be legislated, forced or accomplished by any means unless there is a motivation or burning desire on the part of the so called student, assuming you have a competent teacher to begin with, which you probably don’t. I’m not really seeing this education thing happening. It’s a pretty thought, though. Remember, when you hear a loud rumbling that sounds like a steam locomotive headed towards your house, head for the basement. If you’re in your car don’t remain there.
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It seems that there is truth in your sayings Djones... |
Millercarbon Climate change are not linked to thermal measures in the last century...Botched or trafficked or not.... If you read some serious books or articles you will discover that climate changes on earth are actually correlated to some profound scientific discoveries …. We dont speak here of thermometer trafficking numbers or not, like in this conspiracy site.... Read that link it is more instructive and the beginning of something world shattering...And this is only one article there is others... https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2018RG000629
Climate changes are more related to Sun Earth magnetic field than to the workings of political agendas with thermometers markings, left or right, it is a fact in reality....The fact that the actual economic civilization destroy all soils, and living environment, accelerating the destruction process is another fact that is not debatable ... My best to you.... |
Like I said until we admit there's a problem there will be no coming together to fix it. Only when the evidence becomes so overwhelming the vast majority demands something be done will we leave the flat earthers arguing amongst themselves just how flat. |
I think the same Nonoise, but my only point that seems to cause misunderstanding is the fact that these changes in climate has a more profound cause than juste human activity... For the rest I think the same: it is urgency to act to save soil and living beings, and the actual concepts in economy are in need of a complete rethinking...
Most people dont want to think it is too much hard...Reading books is too difficult and time consuming...But we live once and I decide in my younger age that I will try to understand something... Those that are at the head of state sometimes are so stupid and illiterate that they makes a proud success with their voluntary blinders costuming …Their solutions are childish, and vision of reality always polarized in 2 static positions... Alas!
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mahgister, I enjoy your posts as well and don't take offense. What seems to be misunderstood is that what I've always said is, there's always been a delicate balance to our environment. What's hastening things is man's contribution to that balancing act that's responsible for the dilemma we're now all in.
That balance took ages to achieve and now we're screwing it up, all the while under the impression that the air and water are infinite in their ability to absorb all the pollutants we emit. Science says otherwise.
As for free markets, name one that ever existed without regulations that didn't favor one group over another. It's all where you draw the lines. Regulations are an inherent part of any economy.
By the way, we had a good preview of that Dickensian dystopia right here in the good 'ol USA, Hooverville, and the elite of those days thought it was a good thing.
All the best,
Nonoise
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It seems people read what they want to read... and understand only what they want to understand...
Millercarbon looking for a higher encompassing perspective is not the same as imposing a point of view like in a dictatorial unified state....Do I must give much explanation?
The politics I envision is one linked with universal alimentation for mankind and universal education.... The rethinking of the concept of money in his link with actual real economics life not finances.... etc... This is the beginnings...Politics is the way to do things, but there is no left or right in the politics of tomorrow...And no one world order for all in a pure Top-down fashion...
In history each civilization has only some thousand years at best to understand before being erased.... This is simple.... We must act in one spirit looking for the truth, not political agendas, but real political works... By the way the Greek invent democracy but the condition of democracy in the "polis" is " paideia" this means education....When a country is no more educated there is the choice between plutocracy or tyranny but not democracy... The Athenians has known that.... The great observer of the American political life the french Tocqueville say the same thing about American democracy....A citizen that is not educated cannot think for himself and democracy cannot exist then...Someone must learn to think for himself and this is hard task... Then we must remember that the first stage of education is the search for truth, after that only education in school can serve his purpose... My best...
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Lassiez-faire capitalism doesn't work either unless you want some kind of a Dickensian dystopia. |
I think scientists know that climate change is not all caused by human activity their point is the only thing we can do is address the damage humans cause. We can't do anything about volcanoes erupting or the sun if it begins to increase energy. When a minority doesn't even admit humans contribute to climate change or yeah we do but their's nothing we can do because of short term economic reasons and this minority has the money and power to suppress information, make up crazy conspiracy theories, spread outright lies and propaganda that's when we have a serious problem. There can be no both sides come together to fix a problem when one side refuses to admit one even exists, that human activity has tipped the balance and if we continue to do nothing we will reach critical mass at some point. |
One thing I know for sure, we should not all act together. If such a thing even were possible. Which it sure does not seem to be. At least if the 20th century’s pile of hundreds of millions of dead bodies that idea created has anything to say.
Or heck, even nature. Nature hardly ever does anything together. Nature wouldn’t even exist if it did everything together. It would be nothing but a vast tenuous cloud of hydrogen. Only when those simple molecules come together in a cataclysmic supernova do we get all the interesting elements on the periodic table.
One of the biggest problems with modern agriculture is when we grow just one identical crop all together its unstable. Just one pest gets in and multiplies and there goes acres and acres of food. Grow a lot of different things all together, encourage the natural competition of insects and germs and stuff, that just never happens.
Markets sure don’t work that way, all together now. Not at all. Planned economies where we all work together, besides the fact they only "work together" as a team of dogs under one whip, they just don’t work, period. What works instead? Free markets where everyone competes against everyone else.
So it is in the market of ideas. There’s a sickness rampant these days, an intellectual retardation bent on taking us back to the Dark Ages. A sickness that takes many forms. Deriding some subjects as "political" as if it were a dirty word is one. The root of political is "polis" the Greek city state known for its ideal form of philosophical discourse. Talk about turning meaning on its head!
Besides, even if it did somehow against all odds magically work, could you ever in your life imagine anything more intolerably boring? One speaker. One record. One car. One position: missionary. Yeah, even sex gets ruined.
And so I say, all together now: Compete! Argue! Its the only real way we have of getting along. |
Dont take it this way....I was not saying that in this intended way against you or your understanding...I just want to make my position clear...
Climate change there is,
We must act together, to promote the survival of all ecosystem now,
But sorry it is not ONLY man made...
This is my point...
By the way I know that stupid men can use this point to promote their agenda that is: do nothing....
But truth is more important than political agendas for me...
Nonoise, i have appreciated all your posts and I apologize if I have hurted your feelings....My best....
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mahgister, you're right: I don't understand you.
All the best,
Nonoise |
You dont understand me... We must change our way.... Not because it is only man made, it is not only man made, but we must change our way together now because it is the ONLY way to be conscious... I am ok with those who want to change our habits, but the climate changes are way much more than only the results of our activity...The changes we are witnessing are only a beginnings of something much bigger...(One hundred years or fifty or whatever is tomorrow for conscious being) I say that for those who wanted to know, articles in science are there …. My political statement is not: do not do anything because it is only the stars the cause... I am not an "economical" motivated ostrich...My political statement is: forget left and right, and unify in action to be conscious in the middle of these changes...I am not an apocalyptic prophet neither.... Because we must do TOGETHER something...But lying on the causes and narrowing the consciousness only at the human scale , being an ostrich or a prophet of doom, is not my way... The question is not when doom will occur? It will someday nearer than we think probably,but this not what disturb me... The question is: how do we will feel being together at this time, more conscious or less ? This is what disturb my sleep this last question.... And this thread is a small scale version of humanity.... To say that you believe in climate change and that the causes are not man made, is a political statement, since it’s in the realm of politics that it is where the decisions to do something about it are decided. These climate changes are not in their causes mostly human made, but humanity go in the wrong direction destructing his planet, we must change...But we must also understand at the same times the real encompassing phenomenon that worked at all scales.... Changing without understanding is not my agenda...And we must do the 2 things at the same time now, acting and understanding, because they are no times to relax left... My best to you like always... |
@mahgidster, Oh, I do understand you as my contributions to this thread clearly show. To say that you believe in climate change and that the causes are not man made, is a political statement, since it's in the realm of politics that it is where the decisions to do something about it are decided.
Unifying consciousness has already been done. It's just that a minority of those in power, who stand to keep enriching themselves on an outmoded model of making money, still have the resources to entrench themselves in their endeavors, securing and ensuring their aristocratic life styles, at the expense of everyone else.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Nonoise you dont understand me, I dont negate climate changes, I negate the value of political agendas discussion, but the changes are very real....The causes are not only man made and probably not mainly man made, but men must reflect absolutely on his impact tough on this earth and humanity must unify in this consciousness...Even if the causes are cosmic and not mostly earth made, man contribute for the worst at this times, and battling against his own unconscious action on the planet is urgent planning...Climatalogy, geology, astrophysics etc they are many fields that converge in their studies to one fact: The Earth is linked to the Sun and the Sun is linked to the Galaxy, like your heart is linked to your brain and feets...
Humanity has not always ignored that his destiny is linked to the stars....It is only a recent event in history....
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The falsehood of "warmers and coolers being the puppets of political agendas" seems to have a long shelf life. If the political arena can be broken into 3 equal parts (1/3 left, 1/3 center, 1/3 right) then belief in man made global warming would constitute more than 2/3 of the population, leaving the remaining 1/3 off to the side, along with ostriches, unicorns and self made men.
All the best,
Nonoise |
I am with you on the Change pattern on earth climate ...It is plain to see like you said Geoffkait...
The link I provide is only one, between others, that scientifically indicate some link between changes here, and change in the solar system (the sun) and the galaxy...
It is easy to read, and someone can debate but science had discovered decades ago now that changes on earth are frequently dramatic and more regular events than we think and that we assist to one...Unifying ourselves in consciousness is the only thing to do, arguing had no interest, thinking is better...Thinking without arguing with others but only with ourself is studying.... Communicate some facts, without arguing, is what we must do.... :)
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Yes. Because all one need do to understand long term history is read the daily news. Or even better watch CNN. |
What I’m trying to say is one need look no further than the daily news to see that extreme weather is on the upswing. You don’t even have to try to find the cause to see that something is happening. What exactly is the root cause comes next. It’s like an alcoholic - he has to first admit he has a problem before he starts the 12 step program or whatever. This doesn’t require a rocket scientist 🚀 to figure it out. It’s strictly observation 👀 and perhaps a little logic 1+1=2. Ask not for whom the bell 🔔 tolls. It tolls for thee.
And you see something is happening but you don’t know what it is, do you, Mister Jones?
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I dont understand your post.... :)
Perhaps I am less swift in intelligence than my mirror let me know...
Or perhaps you are elusive? A drawing please.... :)
I understand that death had no political agenda....Ok.... I am a bit dizzy today...:)
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When I said that, warmers or coollers are only puppets of political agendas, being conscious of it or not, I only want to say that the search for truth is not the speaking of radical opinions, being liliputian left or giant right or vice versa.... When apocalyptic climate prophets or ostrichs dont speak to one another there is a problem... Because the survival of our species is linked to a world dialogue that begins in each country and between each of us.... Dont be offended, we are all puppets in this great theater of life, can we begins to be conscious?... This is one of the real news : https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2018RG000629In a nutshell: the actual changes are way more cosmic than only terrestrial, the cause are cosmic, the effect on earth are only that effects from cosmic scale changes...We must unite all of us and think...Thinking process excluded sterile binaries historically obsolete political opinions.... Perhaps my post is too much oil on a fire? The moderators can erase it if they think this is the case with my blessings.... My best to all... |
