Congrats on the step-up with the new cables!
No surprise here for a couple of reasons:
(a) You have the requisite performance and high-end resolution capabilities with a worthy high-end amp in your GRYPHON . Many cable naysayers frequently don’t … full stop.
I’ve experienced your same performance upgrade experiences using high-end NORDOST ( their low level models …. Nil to not-so-much )
Our philosophy is clear. An affordable speaker with decent amplification makes more sense than an expensive speaker with a cheap amp and source.
(b) NORDOST high-end performance capabilities have a repeating litmus test: Usually it is either NORDOST VALHALLAs or NORDOST ODINs that comprise the lion’s share of cables selected by the equipment manufacturers at the major audio shows. (VALHALLAs also comprise a large option choice for audio mag equipment reviewers associated equipment )
(3) When you audition in the high-end strata of audio equipment, cables do matter. Intuitively, the choice one ultimately selects is entirely system dependent.
I’ve since moved up to CARDAS CLEARs from NORDOSTs after extensive audition shoot-outs following an upgrading of my speakers to new HARBETHs ,
Both are very fine performers,
For the skeptics, agnostics, and naysayers , I can only offer the following experiences: there is NO “best”….there is only a “best” in MY BESPOKE system (emphasis added).
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Thank you for your comments and congratulations for your upgrade. It is truly amazing what top quality interconnects and cables can do. @akg_ca brought up some good points… high level Nordost are MUCH better than low level. Also, your components must be up to the task… if they are not passing on nuances you do not want to hear it is not a good thing.
I had the privilege of using a set of Nordost Odin2 interconnects. At first they sounded very similar to my contemporary Transparent Ultra interconnects… but then I started to hear another level of really natural sounding detail I had not heard before. The interconnects cost $17K… the average cost of my components… like Preamp, amp, streamer… etc is $20K. I took them out of my system… I was worried I could not go back.
Being able to look back on that experience… and what I know now (I have been an audiophile for 50 years)… next time I have sufficient funds… I will be buying a set of Nordost Odin2 interconnects… then another… then another.
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Does anyone, anywhere find it interesting that in almost all cases, the most expensive items supposedly sound or taste or work the best?
Nope!
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The higher the cost of a component the more expectation bias takes over. That shiny new toy is always more attractive than the old battered one!
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+1 mrskeptic! Price certainly does influence what one feels about a product.
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@nyev: I'm glad you like your Valhalla cables so much. Nordost cables are a polarising product - some people love them and others hate them. As always, cables are very system dependent. In my experience, while the cables are not "bright" (my italics) as such, they are lean sounding and do emphasise, as you put it, "rapid fire leading-edge detail" more than a broader harmonic architecture of the sound. They are not my cup of tea sonically but I appreciate what their distinctive appeal is.
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Nordost is amazing. My experience has been with their interconnects. My Valhalla’s both analog and digital, are one of the most complex, and startling interconnects that I have ever hear in my system. My congratulations on your Odins! Truly amazing products!
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Same old, same old…boring. If you’ve spent the money your going to find and love the difference period, who cares. Do you hear what I hear does not matter, and in most cases we don’t. I can’t take it anymore I’m buying a cable company, I want to be really really rich Lol.
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I spent 3 weeks with Valhalla interconnects and while I like the quickness and leading edge they brought to the system I just couldn't get over the lack of "fullness" and top end brightness it sounded like. It was just to lean with no meat on the bones IMHO. YMMV
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@rsf507
What cables did you find that give you the meat on the bones you were looking for ? I would imagine the top end brightness was also due to your speakers being on the bright side as well.
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Mr. Skeptic, you need to hear these they will change your tune. I'm gonna run right out and but these what a bargain a WC Fields special. The retail price for the Odin 2 Loudspeaker cable is $29,999.99 for a one meter pair. Can't wait to hear the magic.
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@scott22
What is the system you are going to be intstalling yours? It would be great to hear. You can show photos and components under your UserID. It would be great to see.
I have found the lower tiers on Nordost thin, but the upper levels incredible.
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You gotta have a lot of disposable income to spend 30 large on 3 meters of speaker cable.
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@nyev
Good for you and thanks for sharing your experience. I can imagine how thrilled you must be.
Audiogon used to be a place where people could share their thoughts and express their happiness/misery etc - basically a place to open up. It's a shame what it has become today. People do not realize that yes - there are millions of millionaires who can afford stuff that most here can only dream of.
But I say - just enjoy your system and music. There will always be people who will be jealous of what you have. Ignore them and move on.
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@milpai, thanks and no worries, I don’t mind being judged online by strangers! People can make use of my experience or make judgements, that’s just the internet so it’s all good!
To shut down all who assume I may be biased having spent the cash, please reference my review of the Valhalla 2’s FROM 2019, where my review was just as enthusiastic as my experience after having bought the cables. In 2019, since I am not a millionaire made of money, I did not purchase them until now in 2022. That’s how much of an impact these cables made on me - my experience with them in 2019 was so positive it led me to commit to a purchase over 3 years!
I also totally get how some may not like this particular sound, and also, how systems that may be on the bright side may not be served well by these cables.
But like it or not, what these cables bring to my system is nothing short of what a speaker or amp upgrade can bring. I’ve tested other very pricey cables that did not have the same effect, so it is NOT just a function of pricing bias, as much as people would love to believe that. I will also say that in my 2019 review, I found that the Valhalla 2 power cord was lacking in bass. Despite the fact that it costs way too much!
What I do agree with is the fact that these companies are charging far more than they need to. The trouble is, the sound quality improvements are flat-out obvious to me!
Resume judging :)
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nyev-
Good for you, finding what works for your ears.
The cable forum is the WORST place to make declarations about anything audiophool-particularly Nordost! Polarizing, contentious and down right wacky to even the "normal" audio fans here.
My $etup is FAR below what someone uses with Valhalla or Odin. Heimdall 2 wall to speaker does the deed.
I've had a good laugh demoing Odin II from the wall to Valhalla II into the speakers.$60K+ of cable plumbing powering a $20K system TOTAL.
If my setup were uber status, Odin would be my go to.
I don't hear what many say as "thinning" of the lower frequencies with Nordost. I do believe in the Nordost philosophy of "power cord first."
Nordost like every other "high end" cable isn't for everyone's ears, or wallet.
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@nyev You are 100% not alone in the recognition that Nordost is absolutely amazing and deserving of their prestige. I say this as someone who was once thought Nordost was bright, bleached and over priced. Now when I have a system that's properly balanced throughout, Nordost is absolutely phenomenal.
I'm currently listening to an Odin 2 power cord and Valhalla 2 XLRs , and I don't ever want to take them out. When the Odin 2 power cord was used on my streamer, it sounded I have a new streamer and a new amp. It was very confusing how a power cord can all of a sudden imbue the presentation with so much percussive force and delicate purity at the same time. Then I put it in my DAC that also acts as a pre, that felt like my entire system leveled up 2 levels. The Nordost is such a transparent window it makes other cables seems like you are looking through glass that has imperfections, slightly distort the light as it passthrough.
There is so much air and information, the treble seems endless yet completely non-fatiguing. The mids and bass are in not only present, it somehow balances sounding full bodied with laser precise separation and definition. The lower registers are damn subterranean with the Femto 33 clock on the MSB Reference.
The previous generation of Nordost cables might have rightfully had the reputation of being a little thin and bright, but that has absolutely been corrected in this generation and then some, particularly the Odin 2.
At the highest level, Nordost cables are paradoxes that somehow encompass all the seemingly contradictory audiophile qualities all at once. Congrats on your V2 speaker cables.
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Prior to my Valhalla 2 cables, it’s taken me 27 years of searching to arrive at a fairly simple system where finally I don’t hear a blaring brightness, edginess, or sluggish warm tone. I’ve tested so many speakers, power amps, pre-amps, including home demos, including some respected and some less respected amps, including from McIntosh, Moon, Bryston, Arcam, Musical Fidelity, Rotel, and many others. I almost gave up on my lifelong quest to to find a hi-fi system I liked, thinking that I couldn’t find a system that didn’t absolutely ruin a good portion of my favourite tunes such that it became un-listenable.
Then I came across the Gryphon Diablo300 integrated, with the internal DAC module. It really was the holy grail for me after searching for so long, and it makes all material I like sound awesome. I know you can do better with more cash, but with the gear available from dealers near or semi-near me, there was nothing even at double the price of the Diablo 300 that to my ears was even acceptable to me, regardless of the cost.
I am the opposite of the type of audiophile who says "above a certain price almost everything sounds amazing". I find 99.9% to sound good but have some flaw to my ears that ruins absolutely everything.
It’s been a very, very long road to getting to a happy place with hifi for me. Prior to the point where I got my Diablo 300 in 2019, my journey was filled with a lot of disappointment and compromise. There were many times where I felt, screw this I’ll just stick to my $500 headphones which sound great.
All that to say, once I found that the Diablo 300 could finally tame my relatively modest B&W 803 D2 speakers (I’ve tried many other speakers at that level through the decades too), I felt I could finally focus on cables without feeling the need to compensate for something I didn’t like about my system, and the Valhalla 2’s did the trick! Nothing thin at all about them. BUT - I DID find the Valhalla 2 power cord to be "thin", if by thin we mean lacking in low-frequency (bass) energy. It’s very possible it simply isn’t compatible with my Gryphon, especially considering that my Nordost dealer actually admitted that another Gryphon owner told him precisely the same thing about the Valhalla 2 power cord. He said he even reported it to Nordost since two Gryphon owners had the same experience.
Currently I’m testing a demo Audioquest Dragon High-Current power cord, and also a Shunyata Omega QR-BB cord. Currently the Shunyata is kicking Audioquest’s ass (but the Dragon is nevertheless great), however, I just received the Dragon and it is not broken in, and as such it’s not fair to compare just yet. Also, concerning, the Shunyata seems to form a loose connection with my amp, even when you use the included plastic shim to help with this. The slightest wiggle can lose a connection. Might be a showstopper for me, despite how stunning the sound is.
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@nyev Really interested in your impression of Dragon vs. Omega after all are broken in. Maybe using a cord extender to connect to 5 fridge would help. What characteristics do you hear from the Omega QR that is so much above the AQ, and how does it compared to the Nordost sound?
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@divertiti, I’m going to create a new thread on that comparison but I’ll offer a preview. The Omega QR BB is a far more lush and exquisite presentation at this point, vs the not-broken-in Dragon which has a more plain and straightforward, but highly detailed presentation. What do I mean by that? The Omega has a front-to-back depth to the soundstage, with acoustic guitars and vocals clearly presented “further back” into the overall 3D mix. In contrast the in-broken in Dragon presents mids including acoustic guitars and vocals more up front and “on the surface”, if that makes sense, with far less of a sense of 3D depth. While the mids are more up-front with the Dragon, I don’t mean that the mids are tonally accentuated. Both cords seem neutral to my ears. It’s just that the Omega absolutely goes to town with how mids are presented in the 3D space. For this same reason, vocals and mids seem more immediate with the Dragon, with Omega mids being surrounded by the rest of the 3D mix
The other thing is that the Omega has that magical ability to be utterly buttery smooth and relaxed, and yet the detail is astounding and the full musical energy is intact.
The Dragon may have a hair more low-end energy, but again, less 3D soundstage refinement.
I’m sure my impressions will change with the breakin of the Dragon. It’s a shame that the Shunyata cord is so loose, and that they felt the need to include a kludge plastic shim to try to tighten things up. Such a shame considering how great this cord sounds. I will ask why they did that…. Maybe others with other amps won’t have this issue and won’t need to use the cheesy plastic shim. Other power cords have no issues forming a solid connection with my amp.
Of note, the Shunyata Omega QR is billed as a conditioner and a power cord in one. It’s got a hard segment mid-cord where I guess the conditioning/filtering happens. So maybe it’s doing a bit more than the Dragon in that regard? Not sure.
I’m also testing the lower Shunyata Sigma V2 NR and the AQ Firebird. For the Sigma my results are inconclusive. Shunyata didn’t have a 15A demo on hand so they provided an adapter to fit my amp for the Sigma cord. I’ve a feeling this may have impacted the sound, as after a while I start to notice I can’t get a “solid” stereo image and I keep repositioning to find a sweet spot that doesn’t exist… I don’t want to judge the cord because of this. I’ve not tested the Firebird yet.
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@divertiti also to compare with the Nordost Valhalla 2 power cord, I’m going by memory of my very intensive testing in 2019.
I recall the V2 being incredibly natural in the mids and high frequencies, extremely fast, and with more of what I like about my V2 speaker cables. BUT. The bass was very noticeably diminished and that was a showstopper. As I mentioned it may be simply not compatible with my amp, as my Nordost dealer noted another customer with a Gryphon said the same thing.
Ignoring the missing bass, the Valhalla 2 power cord and the Shunyata Omega couldn’t be more different in terms of presentation styles, but both are great! Again, ignoring the missing bass in the V2.
The V2 is just so quick and natural that it allows you to REALLY get into the music. The Shunyata Omega QR is a lush jungle of 3D imaging, smooth yet detailed and energetic, and utterly immerses you in the soundstage. If the Nordost had adequate bass with my amp and the Shunyata had a better physical connection with my amp, I honestly don’t know which I’d choose!
I am actually hoping my Dragon demo “catches up” with the Omega QR after breakin, since it has no physical connection issues. It may also catch up if I get the chance to connect it with a Niagara 5000 if I can demo that. Of note I have a Niagara 1200; connecting my amp to it degrades the impact of the mids which become veiled/softer. I’m hoping the Niagara 5000 doesn’t do that. Because of this all my testing of cords is direct to wall.
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@nyev
It sounds like it’s time to upgrade your speakers to the level of your other top notch gear. Is that in the plans too?
regards
Ron
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@ronboco, yes, I have also started looking at speakers. So far, I’ve listened to Magico A5’s and Audiovector R6’s with my Diablo 300 DAC and my cabling connected (including Valhalla 2’s). I had also listened to B&W 802 D3’s extensively when auditioning the Diablo 300.
Of the three speakers I’ve listened to, I think I gravitate towards the B&W sound. The 802 D3’s sounded great, but I think even my 803 D2’s had more bass presence. For that reason, I now want to test the 801 D4’s with my Diablo 300 next. They could have all I am looking for - the sound of the 802’s, but with a stronger bass presence.
The thing about my current speakers is I really like the sound they produce with the connected equipment. I detect no flaws. I just know that I can get better imaging performance and transparency by upgrading. As the 801’s are stretching my budget considering my recent upgrades, and since I’m not unhappy with my current system, I may take my time with the speaker purchase.
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@nyev I have heard Nordost power cords are better on sources and pres than amps, but I wouldn't know first hand. As I wrote above I am auditioning an Odin 2 PC on my Dac/Pre, which fixes any shortcoming V2 has, incredibly fast yet full bodied, the bass digs down into the center of the earth. Don't audition one, it might ruin things.
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@nyev
I heard the B&W speakers at Axpona. For some reason they had the smaller ones in the good room and the new big ones in a small room. The smaller ones in the good room sounded really good. I have Rockport Avior ii speakers and i think your Diablo 300 would be a good match and would be worth your time auditioning them if you haven’t already. Good luck!
Ron
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@ronboco, yep I am avoiding any possible exposure to Odin 2 like the plague! I’ve heard nothing but good things. As good as my gear is, Odin 2 would essentially have my cabling outclass the rest of my system, while also utterly clobbering the budget…
I can see how Valhalla 2 power cords could be better on sources than amps. Might just not be as good for applications requiring access to instantaneous current?
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@ronboco,
Regarding B&W I did not really take to their sound until I heard them with the Gryphon amp. So it could be a pairing thing for me.
I would really love to audition the Rockports. Unfortunately it looks like I’d need to travel from Canada to Boston to be able to audition Rockports with Gryphon. I could do all of that on travel points so it’s actually doable. My concern however is shipping them to Canada, with undetermined duty costs when importing them. Because of that I’m not sure that logistically I can consider Rockports. In theory I could audition them in Boston and purchase them in Canada (from a store across the country from me). But I wouldn’t feel right about wasting the store’s and salesman’s time in Boston if I have no intention of buying from there.
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@ronboco, also, what conditioner are you connecting the Odin 2 power cord to, if any?
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@nyev
My apologies if I gave the impression of having the Odin level PC. I unfortunately can’t afford that level of cabling. I’m only at the Heimdall level with everything which still sounds great but I would love to be able to move up. I have everything plugged into the QB8 right now.
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$7500 for a pair of speaker wires? Who in the world has disposable income like that? Certainly not me...man,I must be out of touch....all you need is Type 4 Audioquest...it works with most every speaker there is, because it does nothing detrimental to the music...that is all you want a cable to Do, to do no harm. I could find a lot better things to do with $7500 than spend it on some over priced speaker cables. They better be like solid gold conductors or something for that kind of mula....
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@nyev
FWIW, I find the Valhalla and the Odin speaker wire to be dreadful on the A5. If you missed bass, that would be the reason. They work better on speakers with too much bass, like the B&W and the Wilson. Next time try and listen to the A5 with a different cable, see for yourself.
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@henry201, very interesting with regard to the A5’s with the Valhalla (I’m assuming you tested Valhalla version 2 as version 1 is known to be thin-sounding).
Regarding B&W, from D3 onwards, I personally find the bass to take a back seat to the mids. That’s why I’m interested in testing the 801’s.
My current 803 D2’s are front ported (the newer designs are sealed), so they have much more of a bass emphasis. When comparing the Valhalla 2 speaker wire on my current B&W’s with other very high end cables from AudioQuest, Transparent, and my lower end but excellent Clarus Crimson biwires, I do not detect ANY less bass with the Valhalla 2’s. In other words, while the Valhalla 2 speaker wires may favour B&W, I don’t think it’s related to B&W’s having more bass to start with.
Could be a red herring but maybe the Valhalla 2’s simply don’t do well with 4 Ohm speakers like the A5’s? I’m not an expert, but I think with lower impedance speakers the wattage generated and the current running through then speaker wires would be much, much higher. So maybe the Valhalla 2’s can’t manage the higher current flow when connected to the A5’s?
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Correction - the newer B&W’s ARE ported, but downwards as opposed to front firing.
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I have Valhalla 2's throughout my system which consists of Rogue Audio RP9 preamp and Rogue Audio Apollo dark monos and Sonus Faber Il Cremonese (previously I had the Amati Traditions). The speakers are 4ohm. The Nordost Valhalla are outstanding, at least for classical and jazz (no experience with rock or heavy metal). Incidentally, the PCs are plugged into a Puritan 156 which comes with its own 20 A PC (upgraded version). I have heard the same setup with Transparent cables and Darwin cables and the sound did not have as accurate timbre, was not as articulate, musical or engaging. The treble is incredible, the mid range is full and with the correct recordings, not muddy or thick, decay excellent, and soundstage deep and wide.
I believe the cabling really has to be matched to the speakers and supporting electronics. Also, the 20A circuit may make a difference as well. (Outlet is merely a hospital grade 4 socket.)
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Aliexpress has them dirt cheap.
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@zappas
”… Aliexpress has them dirt cheap.…”
Not so. Anything but in fact.
I would refer you to the many posts search below highlighting that the AliExpress, AliBaba ( whatever …) offerings are nothing more than Uber-cheap inferior materials and total crap build quality, that are pure counterfeit and illegal fakes that have nothing in common with OEM cables from NORDOST … other than their illegal and unauthorized use of the NORDOST name and branding,
These are being flogged in China away from illegal trademark use criminal prosecution . The China marketplace permits this illegal activity as a national sport.
https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.phpf=7&t=37160&hilit=Fake+NORDOST+cables
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nyev Bravo! I'm glad you shared your great cable experience with us and Gryphon makes excellent sounding equipment. It's refreshing after reading another post here today.
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