I saw on Facebook late last night that Mike Fremer told one of his Audio Friends that he heard from Peter Lederman of Soundsmith that he is suffering his second round with COVID. Peter said he has blood clots on his lungs. That is all the post said. Here is hoping that Peter pulls through with a full recovery.
I beg to disagree, even poorly informed, conspiracy spreading, black folk blaming and Trump loving foreigners can comment on the structure and performance of the US government. I'd like to think it's still an open society.
You as a foreigner can speak among yourselves, but to try to be my conscious, as an American you are way out of line. Any further communique I will have with you will be through official diplomatic channels. However, in the interest of diplomacy let this be our last communique.
"diplomatic channels"...LMAO! This is the kind of comic relief that makes threads such as this one bearable.
Who do you think you are!!! Some foreigner telling me who is an American and veteran and someone who worked for the US Government (DoD) for 37 yrs how my government works. You must be kidding.
Mister what I would like to say is inappropriate and in the name of diplomacy I will bear the burden of your colossal failure to do the same, But make no mistake in matters such as this with your documented evidence, your full identity may not be protected. I wonder what your embassy or appropriate diplomatic representative would think of your behavior as a representative of New Zealand. This is not a joke, you may have crossed the line.
However, since you appear to know so much about my Government, you would do well with reading our constitution and understanding the history & powers of the POTUS as well as appreciating the influence that the POTUS has. By mid-March the Governors of many US states moved to lock-down based on the advice of science and independent of any guidance by POTUS. Congress begged POTUS to invoke the war powers/national emergency act that gives POTUS wide ranging authority to direct businesses, and execute and fund contracts independent of Congress; such is the authority of the POTUS.
You as a foreigner can speak among yourselves, but to try to be my conscious, as an American you are way out of line. Any further communique I will have with you will be through official diplomatic channels. However, in the interest of diplomacy let this be our last communique.
Like in audio discussion (objectivist versus subjectivist) there is 2 warring sides here....
And like in audio most people cannot think outside white or black, yes or no....Or beside their limited knowledge and dogmas,,,,
The situation in the world cannot be understood by one expertise field only.... Even in one field , like medecine there is more sub-fields which are completely out of the expertise of other sub-fields specialist... Add to that all the information to understand economy, politic, and complex geopolitic....
One perspective side here is based mainly in general medecine with his many sub-fields , the other side on politic and economical geopolitic situation, and the 2 side are warring each against the other here...
Actual perceived REALITY is not black nor white but colored by the light of the working brain outside of any field and with contributions from all of them....Pick a color but dont chose black or white please....
Red letter day as we learn King Dotards buddy really working for… wait for it…. UAE. I am guessing Faux didn’t cover that preferring instead to cover the NRA bankruptcy bake sale…
@lewm Thanks for the update on testing. I'm sure you are right, but the friustration on my part was that our procedures were not updated until after June 2020, long after it became apparent that asymptomatic could be transmitting. And in a world where the pandemic was clearly more serious than any before, why not overtest if you can practically do it - and we could have, preventing a couple of community outbreaks that we did have, that were ultimately contained through effective contact tracing and quarantining. We were lucky.
In America, in times of a national crisis/emergency, like it or not, regardless of advisers, the responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of the POTUS/Commander-In-Chief; such is the old adage "The buck stops here".
Technically thats correct in so far as the CDC falls under the jurisdiction of the Executive Branch of Government. However there are two other branches of governance in the US that materially affect the pandemic response - Congress writes the law and authorises funding for the executive branch, and the Judiciary whom interpret the law crafted by congress with the overarching requirement of protecting the constitution.
And then of course there is the "4th branch" the media, who are supposed to hold whomever is in power to account, and have special rights under the constituion, I believe, have so politicised the pandemic that over 80% of the population have no trust in the media.
I dont think any administration has covered pandemics fully, when Obama left office the cupboards were empty in terms of medical supplies - ventilators etc.
And finally POTUS can ony make decisions based on information available and the advice they are given. If Fauci saw no threat to the US as late as March 2020, and he was part of the advisory team, then how can you expect POTUS to have seen the threat in January 2020.
The medical experts explain Fauci's wildly shifting positions as "evolving" due to new information. Why cannot POTUS be afforded the same grace.
In back to back elections Donald Trump lost the popular vote by fairly large margins. Trumps 2020 vote total was the largest ever cast for a presidential candidate in US history, except for Biden's 2020 vote total. Barring satanic intervention that's what history will say. Some people just can't handle the truth!
I for one would not object if the moderator would delete this thread, now that we are getting into conspiracy theories unrelated to COVID. Not surprisingly, the same guys are on the other side of my fence.
Dover, You live on an island with a huge land mass in comparison to its population, and it is accessible via a very limited number of locations. Controlling an epidemic infectious disease in that setting is rather simple compared to the issues faced by most other larger countries. One possible reason for the screening system used by your government at the outset of the pandemic, if indeed your depiction is correct, would be that the previous Coronavirus outbreak, caused by the SARS virus at the turn of this century, was characterized by the fact that infected persons were not contagious UNTIL they first developed symptoms. It was not such a bad notion to screen for symptoms in those days when most medical authorities were thinking that SARS-CoV2 would behave much like SARS. Although it was far more deadly than SARS-CoV2, the SARS outbreak was largely overcome by quarantining those who became ill, immediately at the onset of symptoms. This is one reason why a vaccine for SARS was never developed, although several were in the pipeline. As it turned out, COVID is not like SARS; infected persons are contagious to others long before they become symptomatic. Quarantine is not nearly as effective.
On election night he was real popular in Philadelphia, Detroit, Milwaukee and Atlanta and that's why he's President and his opponent the loser. Biden won by 7 million votes. That's a fact, Jack!
IF he actually made that statement, statistically an outbreak was a probable prediction given low international travel barriers, sporadic consistency of health systems from country to country and the nature of infectious disease. Additionally, it would have been a pretty safe bet then because one typically expects an administration to last 8 years.
Seriously? You can't really be implying there was a conspiracy to unleash this intentionally? Imagine how much one could accomplish dedicating one's energy into productive pursuits. I really do feel terrible that there are quite intelligent people out there spending their precious time zeroing in on something that doesn't exist.
lewm, In 2017 at Georgetown University the afformention Dr spoke "there will be a surprise outbreak during this adinistration" How did he KNOW that in advance?
"Preparing for a pandemic requires the
leveraging of all instruments of national
power, and coordinated action by all
segments of government and society.
Influenza viruses do not respect the
distinctions of race, sex, age, profession or
nationality, and are not constrained by
geographic boundaries. The next pandemic
is likely to come in waves, each lasting
months, and pass through communities of all
size across the nation and world. While a
pandemic will not damage power lines,
banks or computer networks, it will
ultimately threaten all critical infrastructure
by removing essential personnel from the
workplace for weeks or months.
This makes a pandemic a unique
circumstance necessitating a strategy that
extends well beyond health and medical
boundaries, to include the sustainment of
critical infrastructure, private-sector
activities, the movement of goods and
services across the nation and the globe, and
economic and security considerations. The
uncertainties associated with influenza
viruses require that our Strategy be versatile,
to ensure that we are prepared for any virus
with pandemic potential, as well as the
annual burden of influenza that we know we
will face.
The National Strategy for Pandemic
Influenza guides our preparedness and
response to an influenza pandemic, with
the intent of (1) stopping, slowing or
otherwise limiting the spread of a
pandemic to the United States;
(2) limiting the domestic spread of a
pandemic, and mitigating disease,
suffering and death; and (3) sustaining
infrastructure and mitigating impact to
the economy and the functioning of
society."
Why weren't they followed verbatim?
In America, in times of a national crisis/emergency, like it or not, regardless of advisers, the responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of the POTUS/Commander-In-Chief; such is the old adage "The buck stops here".
On election night he was real popular in Philadelphia, Detroit, Milwaukee and Atlanta and that's why he's President and his opponent the loser. Biden won by 7 million votes. That's a fact, Jack!
He is so popular they had to use razor wire and troops to protect him from his fans. So many people voted for him that in one county in Arizona alone he got 74k more votes mailed in than were mailed out. The election was so open and honest more and more states are doing audits to show the world how fair and honest it was. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRnhBmHYN0
@lewm An excellent post. As a physician myself I could not have stated it better.
@dover I envy you in N.Z, With Covid restrictions coming down we in Hawaii are being inundated by tourists from the mainland (nowhere else for them to go as most other tourist destinations are still shut down). We were doing OK locally but I expect that we will soon be hit hard by the delta variant in the near future.
Look for this thread to be shut down soon--way too topical.
Again....you are poorly informed/educated. Fauci's scientific expertise is in the HIV/AIDS virus, not in Corona viruses.
You should spend sometime understanding what the word "novel" means when discussing viruses. Novel means "never seen," there were no scientist that had a clue in what to due at the beginning. Focusing on Fauci is hilariously stupid, promoted by Murdoch's right wing media.
Lastly, you should look into Trump's failure to enact the War Powers Act. This caused chaos as the states fought each other for resources. There's a reason he lost the election, sitting presidents rarely do.
But you probably think that the election was stolen.....
Of course Fauci and the scientific community changed their guidance over time, they knew nothing about the virus.
Given Fauci's expertise in Corona virus, gain of function research, and is generally considered a medical expert in that field, that statement is indeed a novel ( book of fiction ). It is Alice in Wonderland.
Fauci shold have known the possible consequences of a Corona type virus even before the outbreak.
At least Trump got the US border partially shut down despite opposition and got a vaccine through in 9 months - something Fauci claimed was not possible. The decision by the Trump administration to place vaccine orders in advance of FDA approvals, procure the requisite raw materials through the US Army logistics team and commence production prior to trial completion, to ensure vaccines were in stock by the time the FDA approved them has saved millions of lives around the world and in the US.
1. When you "lead" something you are not the spokesperson. Would you call the CEO of Facebook the "spokesperson." Of course not.
2. Trump is the vaudeville act, this is the primary reason he lost the election in the USA.
3. This is a novel virus, IE it's never been seen before. Of course Fauci and the scientific community changed their guidance over time, they knew nothing about the virus. This is common sense.
Your little island shut its borders, we can't all be so lucky.
Fauci is not a "spokesperson" and never was, he is a scientist and administrator@dover Did you know that Fauci has been advising presidents since Reagan, but you never heard of him before. That's because presidents took his advise and solved problems. It was Trump that thrust him into the public's view as part of his vaudeville act he called a press conference.
The current president, after he was elected, announced that Dr Fauci would lead the new administrations Covid response. I take Biden at his word which means that Fauci effectively is a "spokesperson" for the current administration, albeit he no doubt has his own personal and professional viewpoints as well.
It was Trump that thrust him into the public's view as part of his vaudeville act he called a press conference.
I wouldn't call Fauci a vaudeville act, but Fauci has done more U-turns than a New York taxi driver. Fauci advised the former President up until early March 2020, that Covid would not be a problem in the US - Fauci was wrong. Furthermore, since the election, Fauci has claimed on CNN that he knew the seriousness of Covid in January 2020 - that is a reinvention of reality when you compare his public statements in that interview with his statements made February/March 2020. Fauci, was against the use of masks, now Fauci's for it. There are many other examplles. This is not fake news, Fauci's U turns and misleading information, in my view, is part of the problem with "trust" issues that the American public have with media, tech oligopolies, politicians & as a consequence medical experts.
I note that the UK policy with regards to vaccinating children is that only at risk children should be vaccinated. The reason they give is that there is insufficient testing at this stage. The American view is that children should all be vaccinated - universities and some school in the US are mandating it. Does this mean the tech companies should now remove the UK from their platforms for "misinformation".
The whole thing is a farce - from all sides. Reason, logic and science are big losers in this pandemic.
@lewm No we dont have a Covid problem in New Zealand thus far. There are no lockdowns, no mandatory masks, no mandatory vaccination. We currently have rugby games with full stadiums. The only thing we have is tight border controls, quarantines and effective contact tracing and isolation mechanisms when someone slips through from overseas with Covid.
Early on our border testing procedures had more holes than swiss cheese - they were only testing folk arriving in New Zealand with symptoms, no testing of asymptomatic folk. for example on one day I checked in early 2020, 108 people arrived, 33 tested, 8 had Covid. The other 75 asymptomatic folk were not tested at all. The statistical odds that none of the 75 untested had Covid would be very low in my view. This swiss cheese view was supported by the former Dean of the Otago Medical School here in New Zealand, but ignored by our Prime Minister until the holes became apparent, and testing policy "updated".
cd318, "diabetes is largely ignored". Really? Having been a physician for 45 years, I was completely unaware that diabetes was being ignored. How could I possibly have missed that? Why don’t you and Iso start your own thread. There will be others to join you. If you think big pharma is making out from the pandemic, the amount of profit made in relation to treating diabetes, every day of the year, would blow you away. Why aren’t you exercised about that? By the way, you don’t "catch" diabetes. Therefore there is no good preventative.
As to your claims about COVID: Antibodies: Yes, people who recover from COVID do have protective antibodies. But actual data derived by measuring the persistence of those antibodies in blood over time shows that the antibodies derived from the RNA vaccines outlive antibodies derive from natural infection. Furthermore, the initial concentrations of virus neutralizing antibodies are on average higher from the RNA vaccines than they are from natural infection. Moreover, it can only be a good thing for the individual to be vaccinated after natural infection, albeit there is no rush, because the vaccine then can both broaden and enhance the pre-existing immune response. I personally don’t give a darn whether you ever get vaccinated, however.
Masks: The paper masks that most of us have had access to were not believed to protect the wearer from close contact with an infected person who is shedding virus in secretions. The paper mask was thought to protect others from the person wearing the mask. This is why we are or were all better off if all of us wear or wore mask. The crux of the question is whether the virus is excreted as an aerosol or in large particles or droplets. If the latter, the mask is good protection. If the former, not as good but still better than nothing. Were you around about a year or more ago when there was a shortage of N95 masks for frontline workers? An N95 mask, or a mask that conforms to N95 standards, is needed for 2-way protection from the virus. The US never had enough for the general population. Among the unvaccinated, of course, it is still advisable to wear even a paper mask in public. Wearing a mask is an altruistic act, so you probably wouldn’t want to do it. Longer experience with this disease and this virus does suggest that there may be some level of 2-way protection afforded to the person wearing the (paper) mask. It is impossible to say exactly how broad that protection might be. What I don’t get is why you think all of this is sinister. You seem to feel threatened. Actually, a very few persons did die after having received one of the adenovirus-based vaccines. The cause has nothing whatever to do with the COVID antigens expressed by those vaccines; it is due to a cross-reactive antibody elicited by adenovirus that affects blood platelets. The total deaths are well under 50, but of course that is not acceptable. The cause is now understood and the entity can be prevented or safely treated. There have been a few severe adverse events but no deaths among those who have received either of the two RNA vaccines. Again, the causes are now understood and the problems are very treatable. Hundreds of millions of doses of vaccine have been delivered; the very very low incidence of serious problems could never have been uncovered a priori even in the large scale trials that were performed. (This is evident if you know anything about statistics.) On the other hand, more than 600,000 persons have died from COVID in the US alone. Many tens of thousands more would be dead by now were it not for the vaccines. I am sure you don’t believe that. But THOUSANDS of people have NOT died from the vaccines; that is a lie, and you ought not to be repeating it.
Would you mind terribly stating your position on Covid and the vaccine dilemma? I'm having a bit of trouble after reading your post discerning whether you come down in favor of getting vaccinated or if your preference would be to not do so at this time. (Yes, I am in fact trying to find a little humor with posts like these)
Don't get the shots, do you feel better? Do you rise each day bitter or does that follow your first cup of coffee? Be sure and at least consider social distancing, I'd hate for you to catch diabetes.
"If I was generating my own antibodies, why would I need to get vaccinated now? Why aren't we calculating into the equation those who survived this and have antibodies? Why not test for antibodies first and then provide vaccinations to those who cannot generate their own defenses?"
Surely by now the Convid Scam is fairly obvious for all to see?
The Covid narritive is riddled with so many inconsistencies that a routine glance at the arguments proposed by Fauci and co should leave even the casual observer worried.
For example "I know masks won't protect me, but they might protect others."
Look at that again.
How many thousands more will the vaccines have to kill before it becomes obvious?
How many millions more will have to be driven into grinding poverty before the full effects of the lockdowns is appreciated?
Of course the global banks and the global big pharma are happy writing their own cheques underwritten by their puppet governments worldwide.
Pretty soon the people of the world will owe more money to the banks than they can ever pay back to their masters.
All the while, almost daily, their overseers, the various governments worldwide threaten to get even more nasty with every passing month.
The real pandemic, the most serious pandemic - diabetes - is largely ignored and now threatens one fifth of the entire human race.
But hey, no worries, trillion dollar big pharma has all those drugs ready and waiting.
It would be interesting to see what Fremer has to say now.
Go away with your crap, Iso. Or did you want to credit Tony Fauci with his leadership role in developing the combination drug therapies that have in effect allowed persons with HIV infection to live long and productive lives. I suppose you find that reprehensible. AZT came from the National Cancer Institute, by the way, not from NIAID. It was the first anti-HIV therapeutic but not a very effective one, since the virus quickly was able to resist the drug effect by mutation escape. I suppose that was Tony Fauci's fault, even though he had little to do with AZT.
Dover, You are too smart to be that legitimately confused. What is your ulterior motive? Aren’t you in New Zealand anyway, where the disease was controlled and is controlled perhaps better than anywhere else in the world? And yet I think you were once complaining about the permissiveness in New Zealand. Yes, both African-Americans and right wing Americans have been relatively resistant to the vaccine, but for different reasons. Anyway, as you suggest, the two groups do not overlap very much. And your mis- use of statistics in formulating your question is beneath you.
Your stats are misleading. Access for many is still troublesome in some areas. Recent trends however show disproportionate vaccine uptake among several ethnicities which may indicate the barriers are dropping. Those identifying as white received over 200% of the vaccines early on when compared to their percentage of the overall population. Strangely enough, that trend has almost completely reversed and wouldn't you know it, the current trend indicates that vaccinations will soon be tracking with the percentage of population representation.
Why is it deemed cute to post something like that @dover ? Take the shots, don't take the shots, but to make a back handed inference is truly unfortunate.
According to the latest CDC/US Government stats the lowest number of vaccinations by ethnic group is african americans - only 23% have been vaccinated.
According to some here ( and the spokesman for the administration - Dr Fauci ) the problem with vaccine resistance relates primarily to red states and right wing conspiracy theorists.
Could someone explain why there are so many african american right wing conspiracists. And how is it possible that up to 75% of african americans actually live in red states - I thought the bulk of them live in blue state cities. Am I missing something.
I do always remember this phrase: If you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. So after gazing into COVID we have made abyss in societies.
As usual, the old saw "The truth lies somewhere in-between" applies.
It is a fact that the mRNA vaccines are being employed on a mass scale without any way of predicting medium, let alone lone-term side effects. It's an experiment without any remote precedent.
It is a fact that the data strongly suggests that some mRNA vaccines pose particular dangers for pregnant women.
It is a fact that the data strongly suggests that in a certain percentage of people (mostly younger) some mRNA vaccines are causing heart inflammation, a condition which typically has very bad, long-term implications.
Beyond those facts, which could reasonably give thoughtful people at least some pause before choosing to be vaccinated with those products, there are other facts that underscore how ignorant it is to crudely divide the issue into two groups (i.e. pro and anti-vax).
When looking at the data, it is known that a fairly high percentage of those who experience the worst outcomes are in poor condition, and/or have co-morbidities, and/or are vitamin D deficient. So those who do not fall into those categories are, broadly speaking, far less likely to have bad outcomes.
Furthermore, we know that exposure to a high viral load is a key to being infected, yet many people continue to engage in reckless behavior, and are obviously therefore at much greater risk of both becoming infected, and spreading the virus, than those who are careful. And this includes those who have been vaccinated!
We know that COVID, like other respiratory viruses, typically enters the body through the nose and mouth, and settles on regions called the nasopharynx and oropharynx, where it reproduces rapidly, and then spreads into the body further. Gargling with an appropriate product reaches the oropharynx and kills such viruses. Yet what percentage of people do readers imagine are gargling as a proactive defense? A very small number, I would surmise.
So, at the very least, those who stress the science, and related, popular wisdom supporting the need for everyone to get vaccinated, should be careful not to lump all of those who may have reservations into a single, damning category.
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