What are music reproduction and speaker attributes that are most important to you?
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Why are you limiting yourself to stand mounts? Many tower speakers take up no more square footage than a monitor on a stand. Totem Forest for example. As to "all kinds" of music - most people favor certain kinds of music and so do most speakers. If you are willing to go that high, I would try to score a pair of used Magico Q1s. They are fantastic when paired with the right electronics. |
One more post in favor of towers/floorstanders - they are less likely to fall off or fall over if there are pets or kids involved. I'm not saying they NEVER fall and there are some that are very susceptible to being tipped, but nowhere near as easy as standmounts (unless the speaker is secured to the stand). |
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I would also recommend a speaker from Fritz Audio,longtime business that could make you about any combo that would work best for you. I’ve only owned one pair of monitors in my 40 yrs in this hobby and that was Dynaudio c1’s.They come up used with stands for decent prices,if you don’t mind used,and they could be used in small rooms and much larger with great results when are subs are added. Another choice might be the Lawrence audio Violin or mandolin stand mount,they do come with their own stands specifically designed for them and both models are ported at the bottom,so they could be placed closer to the wall if needed. You might reach out to member fencingfan from this thread or one of the four remaining dealers for Lawrence audio in America. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/room-placement-for-lawrence-audio-double-bass-speakers Best of luck to you in your search, Kenny. |
If you want an absolutely very good good one Buy the New Monitor Audio Studio ,eith Matchjng stands See, only review. If you buy it is s must yo buy the matching stands Fill with sand , they are direct coupled and bolt to speakers. All drivers taken from their $28k PZL500,with s W12 dub, You have a great full range system. These are $5k + speakers For under $2k with stands ,currently first run sold out around the world. You will see more in the next few weeks. |
These Monitor Audio studio speakers have a bunch of technologies .a improved version if the AMT tweeter, with a 4inch driver Tom and both on rear dual slotted ported, a magnesium aluminum with A Nomex center,and on rear Carbon fiber ceramic coated driver The the 60k micro perf tweeter this speaker is very fast detailed With solid Bass to about 55hz. The Silver w Subwoofer with Bass room EQ is made of the same material these were recently discontinued for a newer model. This Loudspeaker can compete with quality speakers several times their cost with ease. With sub,or subs -same brand silver gold or platinum you have a killer combination . The read on msny people like Stand mounts is for the holographic imaging and soundstaging. The review on them is Very accurate. Soundstage also gave them a best of at this year's Audio show in Montreal. |
I previously owned a pair of Reference 3A MM De Capo(i) speakers and found them to be fantastic in a medium/small room. For me, they had enough bass to not need a sub (I'm not a bass head). An all around great performer and very easy to drive. I used amps from 3.5 w/channel 2A3 SET Tube amps, up to 70 w/channel Class - A solid-state mono blocks. Having a speaker that is easy to drive, and compatible with a wide variety of amps, will open up a lot of amp possibilities for you..... I have not heard the current Reference 3A MM DeCapo Be speakers, but I'm sure they treat least as good as my previous version. |
I own them, one of the 1st pairs, Europe took 90% of them. This next run you will see much more of them and reviews to follow. I have the matching stands put a small container of plumbers putty in the bottom packed down with stick then graphite coated shot 12 lbs per speaker then washed play sand then more putty top before securing top thst bolts to the speaker. They didnot play them until after show hours for people were already pissed That there is a very good review and No thing to buy ,unless you want white. |
ELAC AS61,l now the AS61 Speakers are run in and wow the sound so so perfect for my listening area, I have only a 10 ft wide area and 16 ft long but I use only 12 and 7 ft ceilings, I have sold HiFi and bought many systems from B&W Electrostatics Yes they did make some the DM70, owned M Logan Electrostatics and Maggies but these little speakers seem to produce more detail and life. I am Astounded and did compare them before buying with a few of the biggest names in Hi-Fi eg KEF, B&W and others.I would ask you to listen to a few tracks which will confirm how great these speakers are. For top end Album: Touching Silk by FrankSteiner Jr 5 Bells of the Himalaya For Drums and transient. Album: Human -OST by Armand Amar 3 Dam in China. For voice Album: Nostalgia by Annie Lenox Track 2 Georgia on my mind Flac &MQA stunning. I have too many orchestral Examples to go into but I love Mahler and Tchaikovsky and these speakers bring out so much detail it is unbelievable. I know you have loads of test discs but it was the above ( All Available on Tidal) that showed me just what these speakers could do Thank you and thanks to Andrew Jones this Design is Fantastic Paired with my Wyred 4 sound ST1000 Amplifier there is loads of Dynamics and micro detail.. |
Well since the OP never provided any clarification, here's a good source for tested used speakers. They may be a bit overpriced on some of them, but there is a guarantee. http://tmraudio.com/speakers/bookshelf-monitors/ |
TMRaudio does seem to be priced a bit higher than the going used rate for a lot of gear, but they take excellent photos, seem to meticulously detail any faults with a product and give honest descriptions, and have very reasonable shipping rates. I haven’t purchased anything from them yet, but I’ve been very tempted. They do have some honestly good deals on occasion for relatively unknown gear, but even on the stuff where they’re above market when you factor in the guarantee and the shipping rates they seem pretty reasonable for the level of service they seem to provide. |
If you want accurate.....KEF LS 5o, or a little more sensitive....Wilson Duette, depending on budget. Any Elac will also do if you are trying to stay on a reasonable budget(under 1K) a pair. At 2k, the Legacy Studio also comes into play as well. All excellent choices IMHO. Fritz also makes very good unique monitors worth the investment as well. |
I have not heard any better standmount even in the $5-6 k range period. These new Monitor Audio Studio from around 55hz to 60k resolution off the charts ,layers of detail you didnot realize was there once all the distortions removed these unconventionally designed drivers .with their unlimited $$ in testing this studio is a mini Platinum speaker for the moment at under $2k with and do fill matching stands must to get everything out of them.read below the summary that sums it up buy their eq subs or-top sub.i bought their Silver 12 matching sandwich core materials ,very musical, or use any high qualitySubwoofers you will save $1,000s on a great system. summary. Conclusion from review online ,and very accurate.it is a AMTTweeter,Not a ribbon for the record withseveral patented improvements of the OscarHeil type on several levels ,research the platinums white papers. The Monitor Audio Studio has recalibrated my expectation of how a compact speaker can perform – the resolution levels and clarity are the best I’ve heard and lay bare everything that is happening in the system. The integration between the metal cone bass/mid drivers and ribbon tweeter is seamless. The speed, control and pace are exemplary. At their best in an almost near field situation fitted to their dedicated stands, with a wide spread and carefully adjusted toe in, the Studio’s project a holographic soundstage with uncanny accuracy and precision. The performance delivered from the mid bass upwards is at the very least equal to that of Monitor Audio’s flagship PL-500-II $28k from which the Studio is derived but this much more compact and affordable model is by far a better choice for smaller rooms and doesn’t require anything like the same investment in front end electronics to sing. The Studio is an insight into the values of Monitor Audio’s design team – it is a completely modern, forward looking speaker system that values performance above compromise and deserves to be partnered with electronics from like-minded designers. |
Before spending $$$ money check out the Monitor Audio-studio. I have owned a store,and been in Audio over 40 years . Most of the R& D was already done from their flagship PL500 cut out the center ,build a great Xover And cabinet the drivers already optimized. Their research lab is 2nd to none. They design and prototype in the UK,they own the plant in China and oversee Every step beginning to all QC. If these were made in the U.S over $6-8k No B.S.. this Highly improved version of a AMT tweeter has 8X the surface area of a 1inch dome tweeter, Neodymium boron magnets front and rear ,A 1st for a true Unified magnetic field smooth,detailed and extended to 60k. A Great tweeter by Any standards and I have heard them all, the dual mid-sized midbass seamless detailed,and fully integrated. Buy their upper matching we subwoofer, and their stands were designed integrated with dpeakers.i have had emails saying I am Lying buy from Audio advisor ,anyone who gives you 30 days , give them 300 hours to fully settle in first 100 hours they are tight and constricted, after that The soundstage goes way beyond the cabinets. Get the stands put plumbers putty on bottom or spray foam, fill with washed,dryer play sand a little foam on top then put top plate on secure speakers to stand . Built in outfitters are Great for wood Or rugs . Try them for several weeks ,I doubt you would return them !! |
@exfoliate ... the Pulsars use custom-modified SEAS drivers, an exclusive Modaferri xover (which sounds awesome), and the build quality is top notch. They sound amazing and that’s why, after auditioning a lot of speakers, I chose the Pulsars. Expensive? That’s all relative. But, you never hear them described as sounding "good for the money" which, to me, means "for a cheap speaker, they sound OK." The Pulsars are a prime example of getting what you pay for, IMHO. Don’t mean to hijack the thread, but wanted to clarify the issue. |
@exfoliate maybe you can break down your math on how you came to this conclusion, including the fact that the Pulsars are sold through reputable dealers and that requisite markup. Because there are a whole crapload of audiophiles who have bought Pulsars retail and are absolutely thrilled with them. Are they idiots? They must be by your logic. Oh, Mr. Yun must also be off his rocker charging $7500 for his SR17 Supremes (with their Dynaudio drivers) then too, right? And Marten is off-the-charts crazy for thinking they can rape people for their Accuton-driven Duke monitors to the tune of almost $12k!!! What a total ripoff THAT must be!!! These guys start with a blank sheet and design the best speakers they know how to build given their particular expertise, and people actually BUY them and are HAPPY. I'm tired of schmucks like you coming in here with absolutely no knowledge of what it takes to produce a successful speaker that makes audiophiles genuinely happy, and blindly criticize them for charging what they do. That's what the free market does my friend. You could give me all the best ingredients in the world, and it doesn't make me a chef. These guys are audio chefs, and you sir, are nothing but a cheap, uninformed critic of good peoples' hard work. You go take some good electonic parts and put them together into something people will happily buy in quantity, then you can talk. Until then, keep your lowbrow, ignorant cheapshots to yourself. It belittles good manufacturers and makes you sound like an idiot. Unless you have the math and design to back up your claim. Let's hear it. I'm all ears. |
I haven't heard the JA Pulsars, but I did hear the Pearls at Axpona, they sounded nice, and I have no idea how much they are, but I certainly heard other speakers in the $10,000 and less range that I thought were better. I know others who absolutely loved them though, and they do have a great reputation, just more reason to go out and listen to as much as you can because what you love may be different from what I love. |
@tutetibiimperes, thanks for sharing re: the Pearls. Honestly that’s the first non-positive thing I’ve ever seen about these speakers, which is what interests me. Normally I’d say that it was show conditions yadda yadda yadda, but JA almost always shines in this area so I give your observations great credibility. Which makes me super curious about which ballpark $10k speakers sounded better to you as there may be some I really need to go hear. Thanks for your thoughts! BTW, the Pearls are now somewhere north of $30k I believe. Do you recall what components they showed with? |
@soix At Axpona 2018 the JA Pearl 3s were paired with the Rowland Daemon Integrated Amp, Cardas Clear Beyond XL PCs and Cardas Clear cabling, with the source being a Mara Reel to Reel running through a Doshi preamp. There were many systems that sounded excellent at AXPONA. I too am interested in what $10K speakers sounded better than the $31.5K Pearl 3s because I missed those rooms. I'm not saying they weren't present. I didn't listen to every room and, of course, tastes vary. But, if there are $10K speakers that others think better the Pearl 3s, I want to hear them the first chance I can get. |
FWIW, I was at Joseph Audio’s offices a couple of weeks ago and heard the Pearl 3’s. All I can say is ... "wow, just WOW!" Everything from top end to bottom was cohesive and just "right." The Pearl 3’s are out of my price range, but the much less expensive Pulsars exhibit a fairly good amount of the Pearl 3 sound when paired with an excellent subwoofer. While not in the same league as the Pearl 3's, the Pulsars have the same JA house sound and same tweeter as the Pearl 3's. |
@soix Don't get me wrong, I don't think the Pearls sounded bad, they were perfectly pleasant speakers, they just didn't reach out and grab me and make me say 'wow'. Under $10,000 the Revel F228be is my hands down favorite, and I'd rank them solidly above the Pearls just based on listening to both in their respective rooms (I probably spent more time in the Revel room than any of the others, I just couldn't tear myself away, the fact that the session had lasted a good bit beyond the 6pm closing time and the folks running things deserved some well-earned time off was the only reason I wouldn't have been happy sitting there for another hour or two). The Raidho XT-1s were also a cut above IMO, though obviously they lack the low-end extension of the Pearls (but you could easily augment them with a subwoofer for under $10K still and get the bass back). Now for some others things get trickier - the Pure Audio Project Trio15 Horn1, Spatial Audio X2, Salk Song3A, Aurum Cantus V80F, and Cube Audio Bliss Magus all gave me that 'wow' reaction, but I can't definitively say they're any better than the Pearl, it could have just been excitement over finally getting to hear open baffle, ribbons, and single-driver speakers and being impressed at how well those designs worked and how they did things differently from other speakers. The Manger P1 would fall into that same category (though in the over-$10,000 range) it sounded amazing, and I loved the demo, but how much of that was the 'cool' factor of it using a driver completely unique and different from any other speaker? Maybe my lack of 'wow' with the Pearl is that it was just entirely competent but so traditional in design that it didn't have a 'hook' to draw me in. The audio-show frenzy atmosphere probably rewards unique and different designs more than traditional ones, but I completely understand that grabbing your attention for a few songs is a different thing than bringing a smile to your face in your home for years to come, so it's very possible the Pearls would do that better than some of the more creative designs. There's also the issue of music selection, selections that involve you as a listener probably give you a better impression of a speaker than something that leaves you flat. Still, at north of $30K, the Pearls play in a rarefied atmosphere. Opening up to competitors in that price point I'd put the Legacy Audio Aeris and Gayle Sanders Eikon with the Revels into the 'Yes, I'd certainly take those over the Pearls' category. I really wish the show ran for another day or two, I felt like I was rushing out of some rooms so that I could hear everything (and I still didn't achieve that goal). I would have loved to have had the time to spend more time listening to certain setups or even had the chance to request some selections to hear them with material I'm familiar with (which is one of the great things about so many of the rooms having moved to streaming servers as sources, much greater variety of source material). I think I'm going to have to go back next year and plan to spend more time with some rooms that I may have not given enough attention to this time around. |
You would do well to check-out the Wilson Benesch webpage at http://wilson-benesch.com/ I have been living with the Vertex model in the Geometry Series: http://wilson-benesch.com/geometry-series/ for over a year now. No offense to any of the other speakers mentioned above. Properly positioned with good electronics they simply disappear. Vocal imaging is nothing short of jaw dropping, both vinyl & digital. My room size is close to yours with higher ceilings. Best regards |
stand mount is a great idea, anything you can do to lift up the soundstage off the floor, greatly improves sound. I built corner shelves for my 3 way speakers w/15" woofers and bass reflex ports, and epiphany struck- WOW- the soundstage is huge, wide, tall, expansive 28 feet across the entire room, and depth that seems out in the front yard 25 feet away beyond the walls of my room. my speakers are 5 feet off the ground. think of a concert, when you’re in the front row, the players and singers are above you, the audience’s face is at their foot level. there are great benefits from high speaker placement. it makes the soundstage enormous, by getting the speakers up into the airspace of the room, rather than the sound bouncing around or being absorbed by furniture, tables, etc. in the room on the floor. |
It's always humorous reading responses to someone looking for recommendations regarding new speakers. Answers vary widely and likely predicated on what's sitting in the respondent's living room. One post asks the question "what type of music do you enjoy." Ridiculous. The goal of any well designed speaker is to as accurately as possible reproduce the original image. Rock, jazz, classical, acoustic, electric, vocals, motion picture soundtrack, it makes no difference. Ultimately a speaker system that adheres to this basic principle will provide the listener with the greatest level of satisfaction over the years. Why then do speakers vary so much in characteristics? Because some companies have much larger R&D resources than others which includes the ability to design and manufacturer all associated components within the system. Also keep in mind that high cost does not assure high performance.. Ultimately beauty is in the ear of the beholder but if you are looking for long term satisfaction seek a manufacturer with resources. Although tempted to list examples I will refrain. |
@astewart8944 thanks for the setup details. Sounds like a good system and that you thought the demo was up to typical JA standards and that the Pearls sounded good? @tutetibiimperes thanks for your impressions. Heard lots of positive things about the Revels so i'll have to find a dealer and give them a listen. I liked what I heard from Raidho too at a show a while back, and they were on my radar until I learned the two guys who started the brand just picked up and left to start a new speaker company. WTF??? They start arguably one of the best new speaker brands in the past 10 years and then just decide to flat out leave to scratch a new itch??? I just don't understand this behavior, and I certainly won't support it with any of my future purchases (unless the founders are still involved and I just don't know about it). |
