Step Up Transformers….Are they Worth the Trouble?

@dogberry I think music is a separate issue almost entirely. I can enjoy music on a transistor radio. Being an audiophile is about the sound for which there are innumerable definitions. For me it is recreating the live performance on my audiophile system. My shop system on the other hand is only about volume, but that system is in use most of the time.

“Music is more than entertainment for some of us: it is nutritious, sustaining our spirit just as food sustains the body.”

@dogberry, well said! Regardless of how we choose to listen, music is an essential element of my daily routine. 

@dogberry not a quick recovery or one needing congratulations, but at present my recovery going better than was suggested by a Consultant. I am now up to 8000 Steps on Three Days during a week, with other walk outs being much lesser in Steps on intermediate days. I'll take that as a win, as I this is doing better with my aerobic recovery than was anticipated. 

I also did manage to get out and share time with a friend, experience their Home Audio System for a short period on the weekend. Maybe the meeting with a friend was the experience that was the milestone as a point in recovery, the music encounter be just that a music encounter.

As for the rest of the attachments that can be added by another to what a use of a Audio Systems is presented as meaning. I'm sure there are plenty out there, I'm sure they are all able to be a furthering of a form of entertainment when discovered.

All the same, well done! I am not in the least into woo-woo medical stuff, but if musical encounters make you walk further, go for it.

Dear @mijostyn  : "  I can enjoy music on a transistor radio. "

At least in the last 20-25 years I posted exactly that dozens and dozens times, totaly right.

" Being an audiophile is about the sound for which there are innumerable definitions. For me it is recreating the live performance on my audiophile system. "

Well said it.

R.

@rauliruegas 

Every one of us would say the same.  No surprise.

Note: It is not any Radio, it is a @mijostyn Radio

When I use my Xbox F1-23 Game for entertainment as a driving experience, I am convinced the set up for the gaming experience is able to bring me extremely close to being a F1 Teams Driver at a Race Track. Or maybe?,  I am just over exaggerating what I am perceiving, as I have never had my Xbox at a F1 event with the access to being a F1 Driver and a F1 gamer in conjunction . 

Ones mind can play great tricks on oneself.

@mijostyn  : " The old current phono stage design is a problem, first because the cartridge is a voltage item and second because it does not works with all LOMC cartridge ."

The main issue is that cartridge manufacturers make the cartridges voicing using voltage phono designs not current design.

JC even has his own voltage phonolinepreamp and Ortofon does the same.

I'm not talking of what we like but about that main cartridges issue.

If you did not like the Lambda SL in voltage design then you can be sure that something is not working totally fine in the system.

R.

@rauliruegas The system is running fine. The MC Diamond and Soundsmith Hyperion MR sound better in voltage mode. The Lyra Atlas SL and MSL Signature Platinum sound better and have a better signal to noise ratio in transimpedance mode. I also believe Michael Fremer runs his Lyra transimpedance mode. I do believe that suggesting cartridges with an impedance less than 10 ohms are ok for transimpedance mode operation is overly optimistic. In my own experience transimpedance mode should be reserved for cartridges with an impedance below 2 ohms. Knowing this, I think anyone getting a transimpedance phono stage should either have the option to run the phono stage in voltage mode or also get a voltage mode phono stage. Channel D offers the option of adding a voltage mode card to the Lino C. My Seta comes standard with both and I can switch back and forth ABing the results.

The Jico SAS/B stylus will be here any day. I will give an opinion on its performance and post pictures of the stylus.

“In my own experience transimpedance mode should be reserved for cartridges with an impedance below 2 ohms”

@mijostyn

Based on your experience, I should rule out a transimpedance phono since both of my carts are spec’d over 2Ω. Right?

I think it's fair to say that Mijostyn is relating his own experience, as he plainly admits.  His experience is with one current driven phono stage that he owns.  So I would say that for him, for his phono stage, and for his selection of cartridges, he has developed an opinion.  Every one of the many current driven phono stages on the market has some finite input impedance greater than zero, usually at least 2 ohms and sometimes as much as 10 ohms or more.  Thus every one of these stages will mate differently with cartridges that have different very low internal impedance.   I owned a BMC MCCI for a couple of years.  I found that it could be mated with a variety of LOMC cartridges rated at up to 12 ohms internal impedance.  I sold it not because it didn't work with these cartridges but because I was never quite satisfied with its SQ. I could not rid it of a touch of classic "transistor" sound.  Sorry, I know that descriptor is practically worthless. Suffice to say I have other conventional high gain phono stages that sound better to my ears in my system.

Based on your experience, I should rule out a transimpedance phono since both of my carts are spec’d over 2Ω. Right?

In my experience, no need to limit this way. What I found to be a reasonable determinant of matching was the ratio of output level divided by ohms. The transimpedance amp, in theory, should provide an amplification factor inversely proportional to the cartridge’s DC ohms rating. So higher ohms cartridges are OK so long as their "starting output" level is proportionally higher to compensate. Of course for simplicity, we’re ignoring losses and the stage’s (obviously) nonzero input impedance.

So from that perspective, 200 uV (micro volts) output at 2 ohms should be roughly equivalent to 500 uV at 5 ohms...etc. Koetsu with 300 uV at 5 ohms was an excellent match, by the way. In the end, I still preferred a good SUT.

Cartridges with non-magnetic armatures - like Benz’s Ruby / Gullwing / LPS, and maybe weird designs with with air coils - will (relatively) struggle to achieve the appropriate destination output (~ 5mV to MM level) with transimpedance amplification.

@lalitk I can not speak to every cartridge out there. All I can say is that I have not had good luck with cartridges in the 3 to 10 ohm range. They either do not have enough output or the signal to noise ratio is not so good. Under 2 ohms with outputs down to 0.2 mv I have no problems recommending transimpedance operation. That limits the number of cartridges that for certain will be satisfactory and they tend to be expensive ones at that. If you had to choose one to the other I would stick to Voltage mode. People interested in the Lino C 3.0, which is a Stereophile A+ phono stage right up there with the CH Precision, should get it with the optional Voltage mode input and I would also add the MM input. You will never need another phono stage. 

Try the Hagerman Piccolo Zero transimpedance step-up. Excellent sonics for $250.

Dar @maxson  : Good that you are hapy with the Piccolo current design.

As @lewm  posted exist several phono stages designed that way and I already posted that that kind of design is an old phono stage kind of design from the 80's when I owned one. In those time never had success.

In the last ( more or less ) 10 years that old kind of phono stage design is the fashion, mainly for each one of us knowledge levels in that specific regards ( including mijos. ).

Here what and Agoner posted:

"  I was recently reading a Unami test report and the reviewer used the unami with a CH Precision P1 using both the voltage and current imputs. He indicated the unami sound better with the voltage input vs current. He stated from experience low internal resistance alone less than 10 ohms doesn't guaranty good sound with a current input phono stange and listed a few very expensive cartridges with resistances in the 2ohm range that sound better with voltage input phonos. "

Btw, he owns the Umami along the Lino C and he feels no " confortable " with that phono stage.

Other that the cartridge is a voltage item and looks for a voltage phono stage design and that almost 100% of cartridges were and are voiced by its designers/manufacturers with voltage phono stage designs we need to know what marketing mades/makes inthis specific regards.

Some top phono stage designs as CH gives us both alternatives  voltage/current owner choice and doing that they take advantage with a higher price tag but not because the current design be the main characteristic of its units where the main characteristic is voltage choice and current choice is only a " side line ".

Now is way easy to design and manufacture a phono stage current design but a truly good phono stage voltage design require not only higher knowledge levels from the designer but higher skills too . With a current design we always are at random of the kind of sound we will listen, is full of limitatios and with the voltage designs we can use 100% ( active high gain units ) of vintage and today cartridges at any price tag levels.

As an audiophile and audio item buyer each one of us is absolutely free to makes his choices because is him who must live with those choices. 

The Audio Life is a day by day learning open book, the issue is if we can learn or willing to do it from that open book.

The pleasure to listen MUSIC as nearer to the recording in our systems will be as high or low as all our choosed trade-offs quality levels to build that audio system.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

The problem with current drive is that to have true current drive, the input impedance of the phono stage has to be zero, and that's not possible (because the signal would go to ground; in effect a mute switch).  Atma-sphere made the interesting point that ICs (often used at the input of current drive phono stages) can present a "virtual ground" at the input.  In other words, a virtual zero input impedance.  But the real world impedance always must be a few ohms above zero.  I think (I guess) that is where the unpredictability in SQ, when matched with various LOMC cartridges, of these devices arises.  The BMC MCCI that I owned in fact uses discrete transistors, not an IC, at its input.  It definitely worked with even my Ortofon MC2000 at .05mV to produce plenty of gain, but I didn't "feel" it.

Update: Lot of listening yesterday with my new TT, cart and phono. I end up preferring Allnic H-6500 (tube) phono over Konus MC3000 (trans impedance) phono in my system. Allnic was more synergistic with rest of my system. For a tube phono (12 tubes), H-6500 is one hell of a phono pre; I am pleasantly surprised by it’s perfect balance being a tube phono (in direct contrast with Konus), it’s dead quiet, harmonics that are synonymous with valves but not overly tubey or syrupy yet incredibly detailed. Not to mention thoughtful features, exquisite build quality and tube rectification in external power supply.

Similarly, Etsuro Bordeaux bettered Fuuga in terms overall detail and depth. Bordeaux is a beautiful sounding cart, just like a fine vino; the passion and attention to detail of artisans at Excel Sound was evident from very first note. Bordeaux aptly renders clarity, balance, and the immersive quality of any well recorded album.

My modest but carefully chosen collection of recordings shined through the foursome of 301, 3P, Bordeaux and H-6500. They allowed music to simply breathe, quiet passages were intimate and louder sections just as impactful without any distortion. The tonal balance was also impeccable, ensuring that no frequency range dominates or feels lacking, bass was tight and controlled, revealing subtle details and nuances that enhances our emotional connection to the music.

I plan on getting Etsuro SUT once I cross the initial break-in threshold.

My next priority is to get a better TT isolation. Thinking about SRA Ohio Class platform and Scuttle 2 level extra-wide custom rack.

Back to cleaning records and more listening. Thank you all for your thoughtful input and advice.

If it were I, I would want to have a concrete reason for why an outboard Etsuro SUT would outperform the SUTs built into the Allnic, before spending the bucks for the Etsuro. There are more readily conceivable reasons why that might be a downgrade rather than an upgrade (extra connectors, extra wiring, added capacitance, etc) than there are good reasons to expect an improvement.

@lewm

Thank you for your input. I hear you on extra connections but this is something I would like to explore down the road. I wouldn’t know if Allnic is doing full justice to Bordeaux unless I pair it with an external SUT. SUT is not a priority right now but more or less a wish list item that needs to be checked off :-)

@lalitk : I’m with @lewm : the Etsuro Urushi SUT might be different but not necessarily better and quite possibly worse. It is 1:20, which your Allnic offers (along 1:26, which you might even prefer with a .25 mV cartridge at 3 ohms DCR). And your Allnic silver-wound transformers are far from broken in at this point. I’d say listen for a few months before considering the expense and electronic complication of any outboard SUT.

I remain an advocate of the SUT in use. I am also very aware of the additional connections required to be used, and know from experiences had there is more to  be achieved on this area. 

In other Threads, I have referred to the use of Low Eddy RCA Connectors on both Cables and Chassis of the Amp, where A/B comparisons were carried out with SAEC XL 5000 Cables and a Bespoke Built SS Phon's MC Input / Output on the Analogue Signal Path belonging to the Audio System used for the Demo's.

Experiencing the use of Low Eddy RCA connectors on the Analogue Signal Path, as a subjective evaluation was describable as being transformative for the betterment of the Audio System end sound, when used in the permutation of Low Eddy RCA Connectors and PC Triple C Wire, being used as the Signal Path from Cart' Lead Out Pins to Power Amp's and as Speaker Wire, I also believe on this occasion the Internal Cabinet Wire was PC Triple C as well, it it was not, it is now.

When my Analogue Source is once more set up, this type of permutation is the first of the changes to be put in place.

The PC Triple C Wire is to be used where it can be utilised within Devices and Low Eddy RCA's are to be added to Cables and Chassis in conjunction with XLR Connectors as another option. These connections will be in place on both the Power Amp and the Pre Amp design yet to be built. I am today convinced that having both options for umbilical's is where I want to be. 

My suggestion made in the past and now repeated. Is that when the Warranty Period is no longer in place on devices and if the desire is surfacing to learn if additional end sound quality can be attained. The use of Low Eddy Connectors and PC Triple C wire in the Signal Path has great potential be the method to create the improvement desired.  

@wrm57 

Thank you for your feedback. You’re spot on Allnic…I found 1:26 ~ 28dB gain as perfect setting. Whether external SUT  detracts or adds anything, time will tell. Right now, I am dealing with my TT not liking my REL subs….I need to break that feedback loop of sub > turntable > stylus > sub > turntable > stylus > sub. 

Update: Feedback issue resolved by placing IsoAcoustics Iso-Puck Series Acoustic Isolators (Iso-Puck Mini, 6 lbs max/Unit, 8-Pack) x 2.  These little ‘pucks’  absorbing all the energy being transmitted from TT to my rack and beyond and vice versa. 12 of these amazing pucks are strategically placed underneath my TT. 

The journey into learning the value of protecting the Styli from be detrimentally impacted on by Ambient Energies being Transferred to it, has many pluteus of discovery to be made.

A Sub - Plinth with a same or alternative type of footer s good second attempt. There are numerous permutations to be pondered and tried out, all in good time though.

@lalitk Glad you were able to resolve the feedback! Nothing else really matters until this is settled. Running subs with vinyl is definitely doing life in "hard" mode ;)

I’m guessing your feedback was well into audible spectrum. When I was fighting subsonic frequencies in the small room rig (thanks to Clearaudio’s CMB bearing being super-reactive in this range), all manner of footers (including ISOAcoustics) and constrained-layer damping shelves proved to be completely ineffective - quite obvious, in retrospect. By contrast, the VPI setup was particularly reactive ~ 100Hz, and footers helped. The SOTA just needs a very rigid stand so its suspension doesn't get excited by heavy footsteps, and then NOTHING gets through. 

@mulveling 1++ There is no substitute for a properly hung turntable. Everything else becomes inconsequential.  David Fletcher was the first to figure this out followed by his good friend AJ Conti, SME and Avid. Even a properly suspended turntable can feed back. One cause is a tonearm resonance frequency that is too high. In my own case I had inadvertently created a Helmholtz resonator. The solution was to close off the space under the turntable with a skirt of sorts. It has to be a local problem. Everything outside the suspension above 2-3 Hz is filtered out.  

@mijostyn Yep - I just picked up a refreshed older Cosmos IV that is now a hybrid of sorts (Condor motor & PSU), and it’s sublime. I’m truly impressed and in awe of it :) The only downside is it limits arm choices - I can get my FR64fx on there, but not 64S.

Back to the @lalitk ’s topic of SUTs - yes in theory a phono stage’s built-in SUT has an advantage with no extra cables / connections, but in practice I have yet to land on an internal SUT as my favorite choice versus one of my SUT boxes. Make sure you look inside the phono stage too - sometimes the internal SUT’s wiring isn’t as short as you think, especially if it’s trying to provide custom loading control (e.g. VAC Renaissance).

Even back when I had a Rogue Ares Magnum sporting internal CineMag 1254 - which should be VERY close to a Bob’s Devices CineMag Sky - the Sky and its external box still edged out the 1254. Thus, I rate the extra cable connection & box "not much to worry about". Just keep the cable run short and relatively low capacitance - you’ll be fine.

If you start rolling SUT boxes you’ll find these transformers affect the sound almost as much as cartridge itself (more if you choose a poor electrical match - don’t do that), and at least as much as MM stage.

@mulveling Glad you like it. Yes it does limit arm choices. Fortunately, the Schroeder CB fits perfectly and it is a great arm that can be adapted to any cartridge. I have run everything from the very stiff MC Diamond to the Shure V15 getting all to my favorite 5 to 8Hz resonance point. You can get away with lower resonance points on the Cosmos resulting in better, tighter bass. My Name is Mudd thunders.  Other arms include all of the Origin Live arms (the CB is better than any of them IMHO), the Kuzma 4 point 9, a great arm and the 9" SMEs. I am not as familiar with FR arms. I never look at arms with removable head shells. I prefer no contacts between cartridge clips and phono stage XLRs ala CB and 4 Point 9. The CB has litz wire in a kevlar casing. You can hang yourself with it. I have changed cartridges 100 times if not more and the wires and clips are none the worse for wear. All my cartridges get a mounting plate of the right mass for that particular cartridge. The plates are lined up initially using the SmarTractor and then they are marked with an awl. The position then becomes quickly repeatable without the need for the SmarTractor again. I just have to set VTF and anti skate. The CB's central post has a scale on it so returning to the same VTA for a given cartridge is no fuss easy. 

I do not know if you have noticed yet, but vacuum clamping can produce quite a static charge. This will be worse in the Winter months. If you notice this, I have a record cleaning formula that will prevent it. You have to have a vacuum drying machine to use it. 

I have a buddy who tells me I need a STU. I don't know what to get. 

My gear is a Triangle Art Zeus cartridge, Herron VTPH-2 phono preamp, NAT Audio Symmetrical preamplifier. NAT Audio Magma M mono blocks and Magico A3 speakers.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

@vuch You have more than enough gain to run that cartridge. If you think you need more switch to the 4 12AX7 1 12AT7 configuration. A SUT is not needed at all. 

“I’m guessing your feedback was well into audible spectrum”

@mulveling

Yes, it was to the point that I couldn’t listen through Allnic as it lacks subsonic filter. I went back to phono board in my Accuphase Integrated, which is pretty darn good and has a subsonic filter. Encouraged by its ability, I went ahead and ordered the latest version of phono board - AD60, thought what the heck, for $1275; it wouldn’t hurt to have the latest phono board if I opted to return the Allnic H-6500 phono.

I am now looking into upgrading couple of internal parts to further reduce / eliminate vibrations from Garrard’s motor and bearing. I am not completely satisfied with its performance in stock version. This thing reminds me of gearheads who are constantly working towards improving the performance of garage kept (mostly) classic automobiles…lol!

Like I said elsewhere, an outboard PS designed for the Garrard motor will likely reduce noise by running the motor at lower voltages. There are several good options and easy to resell if you’re not happy.

@mijostyn, thanks for the response. I've tried the other tube configuration you mentioned. I spoke with Keith Herron and ordered the 12AX7 tubes he recommended. There was more gain but I didn't like the sonic signature as much with them so I put the factory tubes back in. I forget the exact gain 64dB with factory setup? 

The recommendation for the TA Zeus is 100dB of gain.

Maybe different 12AX7's would be more to my liking? I tried some vintage Mullard's too but Keith's factory tubes sounded the best to me. 

The Zeus makes 0.3mV at 3.54 cm/sec, or about 0.5mV at 5cm/sec, where most cartridges are rated. “100db” would indicate a voltage gain of 100,000X, or 50V (!!!) at 5 cm/sec. Whoever advised you is not to be trusted as a source for audio advice. 50V would drive some speakers directly, without an amplifier. Your Herron is more than adequate in terms of gain.

@vuch @lewm  is absolutely right. With the 12AX7s gain is 68 dB which is way more than enough. If you do not like the way it sounds you are looking at a different cartridge or phono stage, not a SUT.  Tube rolling will drive you insane. My suggestion is not to get started. Like @rauliruegas I am not fond of tube phono stages excepting some AR units and they are hybrids. The color of the tube stages covers up the characteristics of the cartridges. If you do not like what you are hearing it is 90% the phonostage, 10% the cartridge. My personal favorite phono stages are Parasound JC3+ followed by the Channel D Lino C 3.0 and then the more expensive Channel D units. The Lino C 3.0 gets a Stereophile A+ rating.

You actually like the JC3+ better than your Lino C?

@lewm @mijostyn 

A strong choice or preference for a component in a system is only an indicator that component works well with rest of the components and to user liking.

A manufacturer design their components to be universally acceptable in an application it is intended for, yet we pick brand a, b or c driven by our preferences for certain sound characteristics and affordability.

When someone makes a recommendation, I always try to find out what kind of sound they gravitate towards and rest of the components. This approach has helped me tremendously with a my current setup..and i absolutely love the way my audio system connects me to music. 

@lewm The Lino C 3.0is a much better phono stage than the JC3+ it is also 3 times as expensive if you load it up with all the same features. I do not have a Lino C. I have a Seta L Plus. It has a much wider bandwidth and costs three times as much as a similarly equipped Lino C 3.0. 

@lalitk That connection is a moving target and depends more on your mood just as much as the actual performance of the system. Many if not most systems overcompensate for some characteristics at the expense, even absence of others. That overcompensation usually depends on which characteristic the user cherishes most. A common example is too much midbass. The person likes bass but his system does not go all that low so he manages to adjust his system or select components that over cook the midbass as a compensation. 

What do I prefer? Accuracy. Accuracy in tonal balance, timbre, detail and imaging along with the lack of distortion, accurate transient response and dynamic capability. Go to a small jazz club like the Blue Note or Birdland in NYC. You want your system to sound like that. Go to a Hall like the Boston Symphony Hall and listen to Beethoven's 9th. You want your system to sound like that. Tall order. How close can you get? Close enough depending on how much money and expertise you can throw at it. If your system connects you to the music in a way you like I suppose you are all set. My problem is I never look for what is right, only what is wrong. The problem of creating an incredible system is a challenge to be conquered. 

Mijo, Sorry, based on your phrasing I thought you might be saying you preferred JC3+ over whatever Channel D you own, which didn’t make sense.

Note here that I refrained from making the obvious joke about turntables needing to be “well hung” (per Mijostyn).

“What do I prefer? Accuracy” Accuracy in tonal balance, timbre, detail and imaging along with the lack of distortion, accurate transient response and dynamic capability. 

@mijostyn 

I think most people would agree with this. I don’t want to misconstrue your statement but I firmly believe, it’s upto to a person to decide what degree of accuracy they want to hear or prefer. I have heard components that measured perfectly but sound like crap or should I say unable to connect end user to music. 

Of course we want to replicate small jazz club like experience..it’s very intimate, emotional and connects your soul to the music and artist. Couple of recordings comes to mind, Norah Jones’s Live at Ronnie Scott's, Scott Hamilton & Andrea Pozza- I Could Write A Book and Fausto Mesolella - Live at Ad Alcatraz. All different venues but you’re transported to each of these venues every time I cue up these recordings. Read up on I Could Write A Book recording background..quite an interesting story, I know I would love to be in one of those place. 

I completely agree with your statement below, I think that’s what makes our pursuit so much fun!

“That connection is a moving target and depends more on your mood just as much as the actual performance of the system”. 

@mijostyn, thanks for your thoughts/advice! I do love the sonics of my rig as it currently stands. I've tube rolled with my previous preamp and power amp. To my ears the VTPH-2a sounds best with the factory tubes.

My buddy who suggested that I get an SUT also has Magico speakers, S7's. He runs VAC 450i Statement IQ power amps, the matching preamp, a Ypsilon phono pre, AMG Viella TT. All of his cables, cartridges, SUT are in the same caliber as the rest of his gear. He has a solid state phono preamp that he wants me to try so I'm more inclined to do so now.

@vuch It never hurts to try anything!  The S7s are a great loudspeaker. I also have a friend with a pair. 

@lalitk Those are purely my feelings which were not meant to be reflected on anyone else. You made a reference to the preferences of those making suggestions so I told you mine. All those venues are different just like Ella Fitzgerald and Rickie Lee Jones have different voices. I mention those venues because I have been to all of them on multiple occasions. I have recordings made at every venue and many others. I am particularly fond of the Dave Holland Quintet recordings and I have seen them three times. They are a favorite reference for system evaluation. 

Measurements, particularly those made in the actual listening environment are very useful. They get you in the ballpark. Fine tuning is always done by ear. The problem that I see repeatedly is audiophiles trying to tune their system by changing cables or rolling tubes. You can not do it that way, none of those techniques have the necessary bandwidth to be useful. If you really want to tune a system by ear try digital signal processing. You can not get bass right without it. By right I mean the bass you here at Red Rocks, or the bass you hear at The Blue Note. 

@vuch I owned the Herron VTPH-2A for a while. Regardless of having ample gain in its MC mode w/ tube swaps, it will sound different when paired with a SUT in MM mode. And that "difference" is quite likely to appeal to someone who likes VAC gear and/or Tannoy speakers (me).

That said, the Herron is decidedly not a traditional tubey sounding tube stage. Even comparing just MM modes, it sounds quite distinct to (say) the VAC and Hagerman tube stages, which are sweeter and warmer (Herron being almost a tad aggressive in upper mids by comparison). The MM / SUT combo with VTPH-2A gets you about halfway to that. And I’ve had system configurations where that particular combo was "just right", though typically I prefer a more "traditional" tube stage paired with SUT.

I am familiar with Phasemation Audio Devices, they are usually handled in the UK by the Audio Dealers who work towards giving a customer something that can be very appealing without having to reach too far with their finances.

I am with experiences of Cart’s and a few Phonostages in a selection if systems and also have heard a Phon’ Model not too long ago in a Audio System I am very familiar with. I was also being familiarised at this time with a Bespoke Produced SS Phon, also carried out on a Audio System I am very familiar with in use. ’ which for myself, proved to be very impressive. The Phasemation and the other Phon’ being both SS Designs were for myself very impressive demonstrations.

I am confident in stating Phasemation are a Company that are able to offer products that create that little extra, which wins over loyal followers, who return to their products.

I feel very confident if the Phasemation SUT shown in the Link, was able to be acquired at the money as seen at the time of this post, even with the shipping fee, there will be a very happy customer.

In context, both of my used SUT’s each cost more than twice this price seen at the present, as a Commissioned Produced end product.

https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/auction/yahoo/input/1151091863/

The next link will be one of interest in a discussion on SUT's.

 https://www.analogueseduction.net/phono-stages-phono-boards/Phasemationcst2000.html

(Herron being almost a tad aggressive in upper mids by comparison).

@mulveling I found this to be true of the most recent Herron linestage, as well, which I bought and then returned. My main preamp is a VAC.

@mulveling, thanks for your information. I just stumbled on your review of the Quadratic MC-1 SUT. 

As I've stated before I do love the way my rig sounds. However I have a lot of hum and at times notice some RF since adding a Triangle Art Maestro TT with the Horus 12" tone arm. I've been unimpressed with the service from its manufacturer. 

I'm wondering if adding the Quadratic MC-1 to the mix with my Herron VTPH-2A and using the MM taps would help? I use authentic Cardas Clear interconnects from the VTPH to the balanced line stage. The tonearm's cable is fixed and can't be changed.

I'm running a NAT Audio Symmetrical Balanced line stage, NAT Audio Magma mono blocks and Magico A3 speakers.

@lalitk 

had a great 3 hour listening session with a good friend/neighbor who knows my system well from jazz/scotch nights over the last 10+ years.  His first experience with my new SUT:  after 10 seconds he turned to me and said “wow”.  Our analysis:  everything just seems more palpable, physical.  Much bigger difference moving from old to new SUT than when I went from Hana EH (directly into phono pre) to Koetsu and old SUT.  

@mdalton 

Thanks for sharing…that’s saying a lot about HM-7 cause Hana EH and Koetsu are two very different carts and in opposite extremes in terms of $$$ and performance. I guess your previous SUT was holding back Koetsu.

Strange things happen when we keep an open mind :-)