How will the sub keep the bass out of the Maggies?
Subwoofer suggestions for budget system?
My current setup is a pair of Magnepan 1.6 speakers, a pair of Schiit Vidars, Schiit Sol turntable w/Goldring E3 cartridge (I have a VAS-rebuilt Denon DL-103 with Ebony shell and microridge stylus when I can get someone to come set it up for me), Mani 2 phono stage, Asgard 3 headphone amp acting as preamp, Schiit SYS as source selector, Modi 3+ connected to Volumio for streaming digital and an Orchard Audio RCA-to-XLR converter to drive the Vidars in monoblock mode.
I'd like to add a subwoofer to the mix that can keep bass out of the Maggies. I'd, of course, prefer a dipole sub to go with the dipole speakers, but not terribly picky ATM. My budget is around $200 to $300 for now. I have been very tempted to build a pair of my own subs, but that's not in my budget right now.
Suggestions?
56 responses Add your response
My subwoofer suggestion for a budget system is: none. Don’t do it. Especially not for $2-300. In that budget range you can buy Townshend Pods, Cable Cradles, Purple Fuse, HFT, or any of a number of interconnects, power cords or even speaker cables that will have a bigger and entirely much more positive impact. Or you can get one seriously compromised and flawed sub that will actually make your system worse overall, owing to adding a cheap electronic circuit into the signal path, and bass that draws attention to itself. The art of system building is compromise. This is even more important at the budget level. The two things that cost the most to do well are high volume and low bass. A budget system willing to compromise on high volume and omit the bottom octave can be incredibly captivating. Or you can have one that plays loud and goes deep but is utterly ordinary in every other way. That’s the reality of the choices when you are on a budget. Which to give you some idea, I didn’t have a DBA until after Moab. So I would be in no hurry. My two bits. |
The Dayton SUB1200 or 1500 are within budget and can be adjusted to be quite effective and tolerable to enhance your low bass output. Set the low pass crossover frequency at its lowest setting, and keep the gain down so it's barely noticeable except for passages that contain deep bass. Experiment with placement and phase to suit. |
I bought a used Hsu ULH15 Mk II, and found that it filled in a whole missing dimension to my music. The cost wouldn’t be unreachable from your starting budget. After all, what do you get for $100 today? Then I added a Paradigm Monitor 12in sealed sub that I found on Craigslist for $75. Worked for me. |
Keeping the bass out of the Maggies requires a subwoofer with a low-level high-pass filter that can be set to 60Hz. In turn, that requires line level cables to the sub and back to your power amp, adding complexity and expense to your system, as well as limiting subwoofer placement. The SVS 3000 Micro is the least expensive subwoofer that I am aware of that would complement your 1.6s and has adequate bass management. |
I owned the Magnepans .7 and bass supported these with two RELs Quake MKII. Even these 'little' Maggies needed just a hint of extra bass from these subs, They have a decent set of controls to set them up to taste. This combination really sounded great for me. Of course this also depends on the kind of music you listen to. I'd start with one (second hand) REL and later, after some saving, when your budget allows it again, buy the second one. I'm quite shure you won't be disappointed. I wish you luck in choosing!
|
$200-300 is pretty low. Subs are heavy to ship. If this was me, I'd search US AudioMart using my zip code and a 100 mile radius to see who nearby wanted to sell a subwoofer; then, assuming it looked ok as a deal, I'd arrange a local pickup. This strategy avoids the costs and risks of shipping and maximizes the value. |
@hilde45 shipping for a 12" sub with UPS ground anywhere in the lower 48 < $40. Not worth driving around for hours |
I think shipping is free? https://www.parts-express.com/8-Wireless-Subwoofer-Package-with-Dayton-Audio-SUB-800-300-5791 Any subwoofer is better than no subwoofer. |
After running out of funds I picked up a couple of Sony 12" subs for $50 each on Craigslist to pair with my Maggie 3.7i . I set the subs at about 50 hz and keep their volume low as not to get any boominess and run the 3 7i full range they integrate real well together . Audiophile friends and musicians that stop in are amazed at the great sound. By playing around you can achieve good sound at a reasonable price. My friend picked up a free Mirage sub from a neighbor and integrated it with his LRS using the same technique just setting the sub to about 80 hz and it too sounds good. Good luck |
It is very difficult to integrate sub with main speakers seamlessly especially the texture and speed of the bass notes. Maybe the servo controlled sub will (has not tried) but it is usually pricey for a good one. There are budgetary floorstander or standmount speakers could get down low to 20-30 hz range but keep good tonal balance. |
Of course you don't need a sub...or two or eight. Many simply enjoy what the addition of subwoofer/s bring to their systems overall presentation regardless of the main speakers response. There are manufacturers that offer trial periods and the support to get the system dialed in. Capable subwoofer systems are a worthy investment. They're an audio component unto themselves that should complement any future speaker or system changes. The phrase, 'matching your subwoofer to your speakers,' can be a red flag. Hop off that fence. The sound down here is terrific. |
@grislybutter Decent subs properly implemented can transform system performance not only by providing full-range bass but by also improving imaging and greatly expanding the soundstage and sense of space. Two decent subs will likely be better than one great sub as they can much better deal with room nodes and more evenly energize/pressurize the room. Also each sub will likely not need to work as hard as a single sub. Once you listen with two well-ingrated subs you won’t wanna listen without them anymore as the whole sonic experience collapses and becomes overall less involving without them. I recommend two SVS SB1000 Pro subs as they come with very helpful integration software, get down to an honest 20Hz, and only cost $1150 for two (or less if you buy from their Outlet) and offer a truly risk-free 45-day trial period (including return shipping) along with excellent customer support if needed. If they don’t completely transform your listening experience just return them. Just my thoughts/experience FWIW. |
@m-db, @soix so my SVS SB-1000 arrived and so far it sounds terrible (worse than that). It's possible my room will never accommodate a sub. But I am not done playing with the placement and settings. It is also true that the music I listen to is mostly mid and high range of frequencies. I understand the 2 subs argument but I have neither the space nor the budget. Not only that, my path to get there would lead to first one sub and if I am unhappy with one, I don't feel I would have the urge that I must have one more! :) Thanks for your insight and advice, guys like you make this a great forum! |
| Post removed |
@grislybutter When you say “terrible,” what specifically do you mean? It’s possible you’ve got the volume and/or crossover set too high and/or placed in a bad spot. Here’s a quick n easy guide to help at least get the sub’s settings properly dialed in. https://lifehacker.com/how-to-properly-set-your-subwoofers-volume-without-sh-1506136549 But before doing that I’d do the “sub crawl” method so you can to identify optimal placement areas for the sub in your room. Basically you place the sub on the listening chair where you’ll do your listening, put on a bass-heavy track, and then crawl around your room (so your ears are at the same level as the sub) and identify the place(s) where the bass sounds best (tightest,well-integrated/balanced, tuneful) and mark them with tape. Choose the spot that works best for you in the room and then calibrate the sub’s settings as per the instructions in the above link. If you do this and the sub still doesn’t sound good I’d be concerned there may be something wrong going on with the sub. Last, SVS has excellent customer support and I wouldn’t hesitate to call them if all else fails. Hope this helps — now, on your knees boy! |
thanks! I started the crawl and I found it to be best between the standmount speakers, by the back wall. I don't think anything is wrong with the sub. I tried a longer cable to move it to the sidewall and it was very muted. My better RCA cables are 6 feet and I am wary of using barrel connectors. On the "plus" side, my CFO told me not to get attached to it, I only got approval for trying it out and returning it :) |
@grislybutter Great! Did you get the crossover, volume and phase set properly? How does it sound now? |
Experiment with lowering the crossover and volume if things are getting unwieldy when you turn up the volume as that shouldn’t happen with proper setup. What Dynes do you have and where do you currently have the crossover set? You might also try placing the sub in one of the other places you found to be good for a sub while you were crawling around like a baby audiophile. Heh heh. Seriously though, nice work and you’re clearly benefitting significantly from all your efforts (and I’d think probably learning a lot too — always good). I think you’re now seeing why the SB1000 Pro is desireable with its integration app that you can use from your listening chair to make adjustments. That said, if you haven’t already it’d probably be a huge help to have someone else slowly adjust the crossover/volume/phase while you sit in the listening position. I could see that being pretty tough to do on your own. |
I keep the crossover low (50-ish) since the Dyna's claim 40Hz–23kHz
Evoke 20s on my custom stands
|
Maybe try reducing crossover closer to 40Hz and see what that does at higher volumes? Sounds like you might be getting too much overlap between sub and speakers as volume increases. Just a thought, but I totally hear ya on the 3D imaging thing. It’s amazing what subs can do in that regard. Try turning it off in the middle of a song and watch how everything collapses. Crazy. |
@soix so I was confused about the SVS, and went out and picked up a Klipsch Reference R-120SW sub and I am glad I did. It’s a much bigger box and sounds profoundly different. If the SVS is a bobcat, the Klipsch is a lion. It makes the room feel much bigger. However it’s very raw, aggressive, a bit tiring. I feel like I was in a DISCO for an hour and I just spent 20 minutes with it, my head is buzzing. So the ideal solution must be somewhere in between. (And I am still not a Klipsch fan but I appreciate the scale) It feels like it’s absolutely possible to live without a sub but may not be worth all that much without it :) |
@grislybutter If I was you I’d search out a Rhythmic sub. I think, if using the techniques you used with the SVS, you might find what you’re looking for although maybe at a slightly higher price. Or even better yet, a used Vandersteen 2wq. That’d be your best bet. |
thanks @soix I will look for a used Vandersteen one. I think it's hard to pair Dynaudio speakers with subs (my lame excuse) as the Evokes are so relaxed, musical and warm. |
| Post removed |
Your Dynaudio"s are not at all the issue. Where are that rooms bass modes? With five corners in that room I’d be surprised if the mode you say your hearing between your speakers is a major culprit. Unless you consider a subwoofer swarm no amount of equalization, room optimization processing or brand of subwoofer can solve the lack of placement flexibility and/or cable limitations you seem to be dealing with. |
I made some progress with the SVS. The Klipsch is just too hard to blend in, I never found the sweet spot. It's very possible that it's me not the sub, and it's just a lot more testing. It seems that there is no one setting, one place that fills the room correctly for every track and genre, maybe that's why people use 2?
|
