Tannoy or Volti

Well my next amp will be solid state for sure. Was going to keep the tube pre for awhile. I have been reading up on the Xperia-12 and xp22. They appear very impressive. The xp-22 would have to be used but there is one for sale a couple towns away. Can’t wait to sell a couple of things so I can order the amp!

Yes using all solid state, the Pass Labs XP-12 Preamp is just great, leave it on 24/7 and sounds great. I had all tube gear and nothing but problems much happier now with the Pass gear doesn’t sound harsh one little bit.

50 on the preamp is sorta loud I usually run in the 40s somewhere low volume high volume it’s all good. Don’t be afraid to ditch tube stuff..

So you are using solid state for both amp and pre with the Lucera? Do you find its gentle enough on the ears? I wonder if I want to run the Sit-4 or 5 with a tube pre. I also considered picking up a used xp-22 to use. Of course that’s after speaker and amp sale so I have time. 

@charles007100 Thanks for the input. Good to know for sure. I’m away this weekend so next week I’ll pursue it a bit more. Thought I had the speakers sold and the gentleman backed out. So, now I will probably wait until I sell the other speakers before I buy the amp. Hopefully Vu will help sell them for me. I’m going to call him on Monday. 

@earthbound 

Kevin the guy I bought the Lucera from had Alan Eaton monos playing the Lucera when I got there, they sounded really good, he played a big variety of music. I brought the Sit-4 , we hooked it up took a walk around his place  while it warmed up, started off in order with the same songs, it was night and day better, bigger, bolder more bass …Kevin is very intense, smart is a understatement, he has had a lot of low powered tube amps on the Lucera, and said out of the 50 or so solid state and tube amps over the years the Sit-4 is the best and wants one really bad for his Joseph Crowe 2087 speaker system. On my Pass Labs preamp 50 on the volume selector is perfect if you want sorta loud, I usually run in the 40s somewhere…

Charles. I’m going to order this week but just kind of sorting out my wants and what each brings. Since you’ve had low powered tube amps as well. How does the Sit-4 sound power wise and bass control wise. Is it an improvement over the low powered tube amps? I just don’t want to end up with what I have now with just a sound change. On the flip side, I don’t want too much power where I will only be listening from 4-12 out 47 on the dial. Not sure that’s good. Anyway, I don’t need you to make my decision,  just wondering if the Sit -4 sounds more powerful and has greater bass control at louder volumes. Thanks 

Great to hear. Streamer upgrade will be next for sure. Will start thinking about that in the new year. Wonderful set up. Love hearing an audio veteran who loves a new set up. Congratulations. Enjoy the music!

I love my whole set up every piece. Pass Labs XP-12 preamp, First Watt Sit-4, the streamer is very special the Magna HiFi Mano Ultra MkIII with a separate Farad power supply. You can change the software at anytime through a hole on the bottom of the streamer with a mini usb, I am using Ropieee XL  software, the streamer comes from the Netherlands, it was the final piece of the puzzle when it come to the gear and has I2S that goes into my Denafrips Venus dac. Then the Lucera arrived, everything is firing on all cylinders….one piece leaves everything will fall apart..

So, you are loving your new set up. What’s your favorite part so far?

I’m going to give it a few days. I’m going away for a 3 day weekend next week so if I’m going to place an order, I’d wait til Thursday anyway. That way I will be home when it or they arrive. A little more homework. 
I’m going to call First Watt on Monday and see what they think would be the best coarse of action with my pre, dac and speakers. 

I would definitely take Jon’s advice, he has never given me bad advice, the Sit-5 wasn’t available when I bought the Sit-4…if Nelson designed it you will have not problems….I would go for it…get it done and you will be good to go forever..

Thanks Charles. I was pretty firmly set on the xa-25 but the more I read and spoke to people, the more I realized I don’t want super neutral, reference amp like. I don’t want poor recordings to sound worse than they do already with my set amp, which apparently is pretty neutral itself. So, the sit-4 and the Coda s5.5 were also on my radar. I want a very quiet, low noise floor amp like I have now. Some say the Coda can be a little noisy. So speaking to John, he mentions the sit-5, which I wasn’t even aware of. Few reviews but it seems to really take what’s best from the 4 and the Pass lines. With the 15 inch woofer, I like the idea of the control it will have and has the lowest noise measurement of all the FW’s. I’m selling a few things off so we will see. Either way, it looks like a Sit is in the future plans. 

@earthbound Jon is a great guy, are you considering the Sit-4?..you won’t be unhappy…oh my it sounds so good…if you get it I am here for you if you have questions….you can private message me anytime….

The Lucera is so sweet the midrange gives me chills….I was having electrical issues just ran two separate circuits one for the home theater and one for the two channel. The two channel with the Sit-4 and Lucera holding steady at 120 volts..all good….

Hey Charles. John at Refined Audio has been great. Thank you for the recommendation. The trial period is such a bonus. What a relief if you decide you aren’t satisfied. He also gave me an offer I can’t refuse! Well I can and I’m sleeping on it. 

The Sit-5 is not needed…save the funds 

Glad you are enjoying the Lucera’s. I’m currently listening to Vetiver on mine. We went from Sit 4 to xa-25 to his favorite, Sit-5. He just had to throw that into the mix! 
lol

I am sitting here listening to the Lucera and melting back in my chair…basically floating…

Jon is a great dealer I have bought the XP-12, XA-25 and Sit-4 from him…smooth sailing every time

Thanks Charles. I will certainly give him a call. Power and bass authority are my goals with this ss purchase. I’m assuming the xa-25 would be better. I should know better than to assume in audio. Certainly considering my Lucera purchase! lol

@earthbound The Sit-4 has a output impedance of 4 ohms a little hot, most amps are less then 1, not all speakers sound good, they sound floppy or something…Greg voices the speakers with his Cary tube amp, the Lucera loves the Sit-4. 
‘If Jon at Refined audio can get one he probably will give you an audition period if you ask. 

@earthbound i have the XA-25 also, it sounds really good but the Sit-4 takes it to the place  you want to be. I use the  XA-25 in the front mains of my home theater. For the final solid state with these speakers it’s the Sit-4, my old ears give me the measurements I need..plus the resistors you have on the back for adjustments is all I need..

I use the  XP-12 Pass Labs preamp

I apologize if I’m coming off defensive. Not my intention. Just wanted to state that I was aware of the measurements prior to buying, listened to Greg’s speakers and didn’t care. 

Audio Note’s also get ripped apart. I’ve decided I trust my ears. Perhaps I have an inability to notice such things or other factors conceal the limitations. The first review also mentioned that the toe in mitigates much of the issue. Spoke to Greg regarding the measurements, which he is obviously aware of. He explained it quite well to me. If you read all the reviews, almost everyone loves how they sound. Most of us can’t hear measurements. 

This month’s Stereophile Magazine reviews the Luceras and they would appear to be a very mixed bag.

On the one hand, the frequency response has got to be among the worst of what I’ve ever seen them test!  The suck-outs are massive!

On the other hand, the reviewer said that he loved them enough to buy the demo pair! 

...And I think I know why.  Ever seen this "smiley face"?   Throw in a few suck-outs and some unevenness you have a Lucera.  BTW, if you look at the Stereophile article and see where the suck-outs occur, you can get an idea of what you'll be missing.

Misread. Seems like you’ve heard them already. My bad

Well I’m not sure where you are located Charles, but you are always welcome to listen to them. The Aric Linestage, xa-25 and Lucera’s will give you a good idea of what you’d be getting into. 

Well I hope you sort it all out. I’m truly sorry to hear about the tinnitus. I have a mild case so I was concerned about horn “blare”. Not an issue at all. Funny you should mention the Sit-4. I think I’m picking up the xa-25 used in a day or 2. I will add it to the Aric 300b pset and compare. I need to simplify anyway. But, on WhatsTheBest forum, a member bought Volti’s and added the sit-4 and said it’s the best combo he’s had in 40 years of listening. I want a little more power to push the 15 inch woofers. 

@earthbound i met to say the Sit-4 with the tube sound in my previous post..

@earthbound I have been going around and around with my hifi path and finally on a straight course with the few days, months, or years left. My tinnitus has been bothering me so I got all winged out and put my whole system up for sale luckily my wife brought me back to earth and said no way. I found a Lucera from a friend who went to a different builder, it’s glorious especially with my First Watt Sit-4, just amazing…my friend had the Alan Eaton monos hooked up them and after putting the Sit-4 in with his Aric preamp, he wants a Sit-4 also…more of everything with the Sit-4 without that tube sound…you would have to hear the Sit-4 to know and the other First Watt amps are not like the Sit-4…a little expensive at 5k…Jon at refined audio might be able to find you one..

I love the Lucera in Tineo veneer, it’s everything I have been looking for…

Hey Charles. I wanted to let you know that I am the recipient of those used Lucera’s. Currently using the Aric Audio 300b pset with it. The Lucera’s certainly filled the void that I had with the Audio Note’s. As with all things though, each has its strengths and weaknesses. 
I feel the Volti is a much more balanced speaker, low-mid-treble wise. Each sound in proper proportion to my ears. The dynamics are wonderful. I was a bit nervous coming from the AN’s that it might be overwhelming. I listened 6 hours yesterday with zero fatigue. Really is a nice speaker from initial listening perspective. Now, I would like to try a low power, class a, solid state amp that would push and control the bass a bit more than the 300b’s. 

I love both Volti and Tannoy. 

So much positive on the Volti's. I know they're very efficient and work well with lower powered amps. How would they work with 140 watt Conrad Johnson Premier 12 mono block power amps? Would that be a miss match? I like the design of incorporating horns...

i use a 211 amp with the 4367 from jbl.  i have previously used Audio Note AN-E HE Spe, JBL 4344, Altec 604g, JBL 4349.

I listen to rock and pop.  Not jazz or orchestral music most of the time.

with 4367 I don't find any "horn" nastiness.  Zero.  To me thats the benefit of the tube amp.

Bass is exceptional.

On decent footers, and set 0.7 m from back wall, I find the JBL 4367 delivers extraordinary presence and disappear totally.  Feels like sound is conjured in space magically.  Very resolving.  Very dynamic.  

I had a Gryphon Diablo to compare with 211 SET amp for bass performance.  Both in room response testing and ears didn't highlight any issues with bass from tube amp relative to 300W brute force of Diablo.  4367s imo aren't well suited to solid state.  It can hurt the ears just slightly.  The way i see it the 4367 is the modern Altec Madrid etc with all the honkiness fixed.  I feel they are overlooked for some reason not necessarily to do with performance.  They do take a long time to run in and they don't sound great during the run in period is my experience.

@sns +1. Differences in presentation are precisely why I swap in and out 3 different speaker/amp combos in my main system.  One is high powered SS, class A, driving 89db cones and fabric domes; another is 65 watts of class A KT150 coupled with 92db carbon fiber and beryllium drivers; a third is 8 watts of 300b SET driving modded Cornwall IVs. All provide distinctive yet equally valid presentations.  

@charles007100 I tend to hold on to components I like, I like to change out amps and dacs from time to time.

@sns I agree with your take on things, and looking at the systems you have, that’s a lot of gear.

Horn and SET lovers have to admit this presentation may not be for everyone.  I believe its general presentation vs what any one individual speaker or system may or may not do. Any particular horn speaker may have unique tonality, timbre, imaging, sound staging, etc. but they all have, especially when mated to SET a unique and general presentation that may not be for everyone. I love the immediacy and sense of performers in room presentation, for others this may be too much in face presentation, they may prefer a more distant perspective. I've heard a wide variety of presentations with audio systems over the years and can appreciate other presentations. I've heard very compelling systems with high powered SS amps and inefficient speakers, about as far away from horns and SET as you can get. Learning what presentation I most preferred was one of the LAST things I learned in this audio journey. Short demos never did it for me, only long term listening with components I purchased was illuminating. 

hard rock, classic rock heavy metal didn’t sound good too ear piercing

Early hard rock and metal recordings often prioritized loudness and power over sonic clarity, using techniques like heavy compression and limiting to achieve a "wall of sound" effect vs fidelity.  As Volti is like an efficient clear window, I’m not surprised at your shrill findings.  Horns strength is their high efficiency, sonic ease , and midrange fidelity which mates well to midrange focused tube amplification. 

I think my retirement amp when I’m fed up with tubes will be the xa25. 

Is that possible, I love my First Watt amps, I need to find the speakers…to bad Nelson Pass doesn’t make speakers…

Well if you find that speaker that is just between AN and Volti let everyone know! Many are looking for just that combination of mellow when it needs to be and lively. 

We played  everything hard rock, classic rock heavy metal didn’t sound good too ear piercing…to much of a good thing…some of the electronic music was good..we had a lot of different amps that covered everything..

no audition period 

I know that is one of its strengths. I just don’t listen to certain music anymore due to its sound. I still need my classic rock or heavy metal going sometimes. Trade offs I suppose. 

For long listening periods keep what you have…no audition period 

With a high end with zero edge. I listen for hours at a time. 

What I learned today Charles, if you play jazz and easier stuff like Sade, Audio Notes are wonderful. There’s a reason they have a big following. Their mid range is  really something special. 

Keep auditioning horns before you buy…is there a Klipsch dealer close to you..

Well keep us posted on what you audition and give us a small review of each please. Curious what your impressions will be. 

They have Audio Note too…