Torture test for a TT rig!

Dear @mglik  : Are you using the tonearm tray silicon damping?

Btw, when will arrives the Lyra cartridge?

R.

Dear @mijostyn :  Can you read? because I posted:

""  I posted all those not to open a new thread window. ""


 As always you are baised with your way of thinking and no other " thing " coming from other persons are not good for you and  not even give its importance .

"   I am afraid there is no hope for you. "

Sorry but It's the other way around. Problem with you is that just  do not make your " home work " :

""  I assumed the OP was using the correct VTF, bad assumption. ""

So go with the OP and tell him that change his arm for one with 40grs. of EM or that add 30grs. at the headshell position .

Btw, the OP is waiting for the top of the line Lyra cartridge.

You are not stupid ( as other two persons that posted here. ) so you can learn, there is always hope for you. Sincerely, Me.

R.

Nice that increasing the tracking pressure solved it :)

This is entire off topic, but that cartridge is pretty low compliance, suggesting that its designed for a high mass arm. Perhaps the Fidelity Research? Its nice that the Triplanar will work with it regardless.

@rauliruegas , I assumed the OP was using the correct VTF, bad assumption. Non the less a stiff cartridge in an arm that is too light will pop right out of the groove when the right note comes along. Years ago I made exactly that mistake. The OPs tracking is much better given the added 0.7 grams but that does not mean his arm is set up correctly. The Hi FI News Analog Test Record has excellent resonance tracks. These are not the tracks used for tracking ability or anti skating adjustment. Everyone who wants the best bass performance out of their set up needs to get the vertical resonance frequency down between 8 and 10 Hz. As you add more mass to the tonearm the resonance frequency will drop. Soundsmith's graded screws are a wonderful way to do this. The OP will find that with anti skate and resonance frequencies set correctly he will get even better performance. If you disagree with this paragraph then I am afraid there is no hope for you. Sincerely, Me

Dear @mijostyn : Even that the mglik trouble already fixed and not because I was rigth I want to comment that it’s not true what you posted because even you all have a misunderstood in the overall issue ( for say the least because the word is: all are wrong. ).

""" Both lewm, atmasphere and Chakster are correct. You have to add mass to get the resonance frequency down to 8 Hz. ""

The best test recordings to fix cartridge/tonearm mistracking are the ones where the owner has the problem of mistracking ( not only the Telarc 1812. ).
A professional test LP can’t gives me the solution can’t fix the problem neither the LPs where the mistracking is happening. So who cares of a test LP to fix the mistracking problem?

Lewm said to add 5gr.-10grs. and what happens when with that cartridge/tonearm combination we adds those weigth values: almost nothing because from 12hz ( that’s inside the ideal range. ) " thing " goes to 11hz and this change nothing about mistraking but your advise is even worst because with that cartridge for achieve 8hz ( as you said. ) you need a tonearm with 40grs. of EM and even that you can’t be sure that that Shilabe can track with out problem because the problem was not there.

The other advise is wrong too for the same reason because the counterweigth in a tonearm even that we positioned it far away from the pivot the resonance frequency will change from 12hz to 11.8hz and additional to that this goes against the tracking of any cartridge because the best position for a counterweigth tonearm ( no matters what. ) always must be at the nearest to the pivot we can make the set up.

It’s way more easy for the tonearm to control de vertical/horizontal extremely fast movements when the counterweigth is at " the pivot " that far away from it. Not only JC posted years ago but tonearms manufacturers and professional analog reviewers too. Different tonearm weigth counterweigths are not for change the effective tonearm mass but to try that the choosed counterweigth stays nearer to the tonearm pivot.

I posted all those not to open a new thread window but only to share my " findings " to other gentlemans that even that do not posted here are reading the thread.

Of course that I can be wrong but this is not the subject.

At the end the important issue for the OP is that rigth now he is enjoying his Shilabe one.

R.

Dear @mglik  : Good to know it, enjoy it.

R.

Hi Raul,
When I google Miyajima Shilabi 2.3g comes up but now that I open the page it does show the other Miyajima carts as 2.3 and Shilabi as 3.0!Have reset and the problem is solved... thanks to all.
Sure happy it is not some more complex issue!

Well, last time I checked, the VTA was 2.1g. The recommended is 2.3. Just checked it now, it was down to 1.9!Set it right the 2.3 and the full vocal is almost all better.

@mglik  If I'm reading this right, it appears that you might have 'VTA' confused with 'Tracking force'. VTA stands for Vertical Tracking Angle and is measured in degrees. Its often conflated with SRA (Stylus Rake Angle) although the two are a bit different.

If you were referring to your tracking pressure in the above quote, try 3grams- I think you'll find it gets better.

Dear @mglik : This is the information from your cartridge manufacturer site:


"" Product name Stereo cartridge -Shilabe- Impedance About 16 ohms (About 0.23mV output) Frequency range (-3dB) 20 Hz to 32 kHz Tracking force 3.0 g Stylus Shape nude Shibata diamond stylus Compliance (10Hz) around 8×10-6cm/dyne Appropriate temperature 20-30 Celsius (most suitable 25 C) 68-86 Fahrenheit (most suitable 77 F) Weight about 9.7g Body African Blackwood ""

and from M.Fremer review:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/miyajima-shilabe-phono-cartridge-specifications

he said: 2.5grs-3.2grs.

From where you get that the rigth VTF is 2.3grs. Other Miyajiima models tracks at 2.3grs as manufacturer specs but not yours.

Again, with this very special cartridges the best is to follow the manufacturer spec that’s 3.0grs not what you have. In my first statement in what I posted before you can read about the manufacturer spec: 3.0grs and in my last statement in that same post you can read: 3.2grs as alternative for VTF. 

Now, you are the cartridge owner and maybe you have a different manufacturer recomendation, I don’t know.

Btw, if you stated that " The recommended is 2.3. "" why theset up is at 2.5g.

Somewhere something is wrong or some one is wrong about the rigth cartridge VTF value. Could you explain or put some ligth in this mix-up??
Thank’s.

R.

Well, last time I checked, the VTA was 2.1g. The recommended is 2.3. Just checked it now, it was down to 1.9!Set it right the 2.3 and the full vocal is almost all better.
Set it to 2.5. Will keep it there for now. 

Both lewm, atmasphere and Chakster are correct. You have to add mass to get the resonance frequency down to 8 Hz. You cn prove that to yourself with a nickel. Soundsmith makes a very nice set of graded cartridge screws that look very nice. Get the test Record chakster recommended. It has both vertical and horizontal resonance tracks. It is the vertical resonance you want down at 8 Hz. This will fix your problem for sure. I have seen this happen on several occasions for exactly this reason. 

If the cartridge isn't set to track heavily enough, this could explain everything that's been described.


I would consider also using multiple weights supplied with the Triplanar rather than the one larger weight, so as to move some of the mass further back from the pivot. This would have the effect of increasing the effective mass of the arm, allowing it to work better with a low compliance cartridge.

Dear @mglik : I hope the Shilabe already had at least 100 hours of playing time and that you are running it at the manufacturer VTF spec of 3.0grs.
The resonance frequency it is inside the limits 8hz-12hz.

Telarc 1812 is a great recording ( and not for the cannon shots. ) and a real test for any audio system. Exist combinations of cartridge/tonearms that can track all the cannon shots and not only high compliance cartridges. Some combinations can track 8-9 of those cannon shots. Obviously that a combination than can track all the recording with no " trouble " tells you that can track everything and this says that that those cartridges can pick up more recorded information in any LP.

What disturbing to me a little is :

"" I am getting “clipping-like” distortion. Especially on the fuller tones of a singer. "

That seems as a mistracking. Please do the next test:

set the VTF to zero, set no antiskate and don't use the damping silicon tray and put the cartridge/arm ( that’s in horizontal equilibrium. ) at the middle and , at this position the cartridge/tonearm must stay in that position with out any movement after this do the same nearer the inner LP grooves and things must be the same: dead " there ".

If in those tests the tonearm is steady then play again not only the 1812 but the LPs where you detected that kind of mistracking in the singer. Do these with out and with antiskating and with tray damping and with out it and clean the stylus tip ans LP before play it.

If things does not change probably exist a " trouble " in the cartridge suspension or its stylus tip.

If in the back tests ( no VTF/AS. ) exist a minimum movement then exist a " trouble " with the tonearm.

Not been with you is dificult to be very precise in our opinions. You have to check about what some of us posted . Even if after all those tests try again with 3.2grs. on VTF.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Few setups can flawlessly trac the Telarc 1812, so don’t read too much into your cartridge skipping over the cannon shots. If you want a good gauge of your turntable performance I’d recommend something like the HiFi News test record.

The amplitude of 1812 (cannon shots) does not exist in real music, so why do you use it as a test for a low compliance cartridge? Do you expect it to track like 30cu MM?

You can use Hi-Fi News Test LP, but even those last 2 bands are extreme test for cartridge suspension.

Play real music, you can damage your low compliance cartridge testing it on 1812s cannon shots, probably you already damaged it.

The Shilabe is a very low compliance cartridge.  The Triplanar is considered a "medium" mass tonearm, at 11g.  Yes, your problem certainly could be due to a mismatch of very low compliance with a tonearm of inadequate effective mass.  A cheap and dirty way to confirm that would be simply to add some weight at the headshell of the TP.  A US nickel weighs 5g, I think. (But don't take my word for that; weigh it.)  If adding 5g or even 10g on or near the headshell ameliorates the problem, you have your answer.

Try the Shure Audio Obstacle Course.  
On headphones.

You've confirmed the vertical tracking force (VTF) is correct and the anti-skate is sufficient? It may have also been mechanical from when your speakers / subwoofer reproduced the cannons.

I'm not sure how to interpret "clipping-like distortion" when someone is singing. I suppose it is possible you have the gain set too high on one of your pieces of equipment.