Mitch4t, I have known a B/M dealer since I moved from NY 36 years ago. I really don't know of any anywhere in Texas now. The internet is responsible for this. When I lived in Tallahassee for eight years, there were three B/M dealers and typically I would visit two of them regularly. They were within walking distance of FSU. There was little access to buying anything outside where you lived in those days, except when I went to conferences in Chicago, NYC, or Atlanta. I could not buy London Decca cartridges in Tallahassee but could and did in Chicago, but most of what I bought was from those two local dealers. All the audiophiles in knew (about six) were in town. But along came AudioMart, a monthly for sale listing. I met three guys through it to whom I still occasionally communicate.
Later came the internet and being able to seek best buys, learn other audiophiles experiences, etc. Now Tallahassee has no B/M dealers, Houston has maybe one, Chicago's are all in the suburbs, etc. I know several dealers who operate out of their homes. I suspect that all local dealers will vanish in the future with a few exceptions, such as grocery stores, restaurants, gas stations,etc. I'm presently in New Mexico and know of a wood burning stove retailer in Taos. He survives, no doubt because many heat their homes there with wood burning.
Yes, it would be nice to hear components before you buy them, but I guess reviews, whether professional or just from friends, shows, like Rocky Mountain AF, and occasional visits in big cities have to serve your interests in new products. Lots of cars are sold over the internet now, but no doubt they are test driven first at local dealers. In the case of cars servicing suggests that dealers might earn more doing that rather than selling cars. |
Tbg,
I don't know where you are in Texas, it's a big country. But Galen Carol at Galen Carol Audio in San Antonio is a great guy and is an excellent example of an exceptional brick & mortar audio dealer. |
Audiodistinction, I haven't had any dealings with Galen in a long time, but he operated out of his house when I last did. |
I had mentioned early on in this thread that if you walk in, I'm sure a large percentage end up buying if they didn't intend on buying. Cajunpepe did this the same thing with 300k worth of Audi's. (Good man. Never liked the bimmers and I did own one ages ago). |
.
Donjr, as the originator of this thread, I insist that if you have nothing nice to say about bimmers, shut your pie hole.
Bimmers rule.
. |
Tbg, you are correct. Sorry for my stupid mistake. BTW - I still insist that he's a great guy and a fantastic audio resource. |
Not to start another dispute on this thread but Is Audiodistinction and Br3098 one and the same.If so I thought it was against the rules |
Goldeneraguy, sorry my bad. Br3098 is my customer and friend and had logged in from the mac my my showroom. He didn't log off when he left and I answered without checking first. My apologies to all for the confusion. |
Only if you take a Wednesday afternoon off work, not a lot of customers at that time of day, and make it clear you are just there to listen to some equipment, and ask if they have time to play some stuff (bring your own music)
Be appreciative and thankful, you will be amazed at how far an attitude like this will get you.
As a young lad of 11, me and my buds would go to the local audio shop, they knew we had no money, but what they did was show us gear, and play music for us, what they did know was that sometime in the future we would have money.
That sales rep played Santa Esmeralda though the the marble base Kenwood turntable with AR9 speakers. 40 yrs later I still remember it like yesterday.
I pity us as a society, I am convinced that within my lifetime the only stores left will be WalMart and Costco |
One more thought...perhaps it is the public online forums (such as AudioGon) that actually doomed the brick and mortar stores, and not the online resellers.
Back in the day, I went to my local audio store to learn about high end equipment so that I knew what I wanted to purchase when I had finally saved up my money. Today, experts freely and willingly dispense with very technical information right here on AudioGon. All we have to do is ask our question. Back in the day, I paid for that knowledge when I made a purchase at the brick and mortar store. Today, I pay for that knowledge only if I make a sale through AudioGon. |
I would not leave out ebay |
Bobnegi----I still have my Santa Esmeralda album.
Also had the AR9's.Big booming bass .
Great to be young
I'm a brick and mortar guy.
Part of the enjoyment of this hobby is listening to and comparing components.Also the satisfaction to know that if things go wrong your dealer will be making it right.
Audiodistinction, Mistakes happen.Enjoy |
Another one bites the dust... HiFi HouseI've never been to this shop, but hate to see this happen. |
Plain and simple..THOSE OPINIONS ARE ALL ROXY54's OWN ISSUES!!! Bottom line, PERIOD,..whatever people agree on or negotiate for is WHAT IT IS!! Nothing more! .. THATS IT!
Hey look, I too used to work as a hifi salesman in 4 different ultra hiend audio salons as well as in 2 retail AV chain stores in both the hey days and at the collapse of AV retail, in mid 2000's! And, you know what?..IT MAKES ABSOLUTELY ZERO DIFFERENCE whether some nonbuying, internet searchin, used gear looki-leach walks into ur struggling Retail store, with no intention of letting you know that he ain't buyin! It's up to YOU as a salesperson to qualify the bastard, and find out if he will buy., and then SELL HIM SOMETHING!! And if you think he's wasting your time, you have two choices...you either let him look around and remain friendly to the guy, if he's no harm, OR U CAN BLOW HIM OUT OF UR SHOP N TELL HIM TO GO BUY SOMEWHERE ELSE!! That's your choice! Conversely, if I'm some joeshmoe walk in in off the street, minding my own business, or if I feel like conversing about AV gear and discussing opinions, I DONT NEED TO TELL U , A SALES PERSON, JACK SQUAT, IF I DONT FEEL LIKE! ..NOR AM I OBLIGATED TO HAVE TO BUY NOTHIN! ..and, if u don't like it, either leave me alone, or kick me out, and I'll gladly be on my way!!! - and I'll not lose a nights sleep over it...not my problem..I owe u NOTHIN! Just don't sit here and tell me that the problem is the customer who's not going to buy...CAUSE THE REAL PROBLEM IS CLEARLY YOU, ROXY54!!!
Fix ur own problems n don't cry to us!..CAUSE me or any other tire kicker ain't the problem if we don't open our wallets for YOU! ..then again, if u can't deal with that, maybe u should quit or become a better salesperson???!.....what a total cop-out!
See this way you don't need to look in the mirror and make healthy effective changes in YOUR life..and you can just go on unchanged, blaming non buyers, slow economy, and so forth fer all your problems! Been there ..done that. It's same kinda position people take all the time! -Blame Enron and Fannie Mae for all the money they lost ( they shouldn't have put all their eggs in one basket, PERIOD, lazily and greadily, without doing their homework, in the first place!) , or the economy for causing them to lose their jobs, and now they can't pay their bills (u spent ur wasted hours watching Seinfeld reruns, instead of planning a separate investment bankroll, and actively multiplied by learning to invest, u slacker!!..Yes, own that!)
GET IT FIXED AND STOP BLAMING OTHERS FOR THE WORLD NOT BEING LIKE U FEEL IT SHOULD, SO U CONVENIENTLY DONT HAVE 2 CHANGE UR NEGATIVE OUTLOOK,THERE,MISSY HOTROXX!!!! ..u got bigger problems than time wasters to deal with in ur life. I assure u |
Avgoround,
The content of your post indicates to me that you have not read the last contribution that I made to this thread on 7/16. If you did read that post, I think that you may have a comprehension problem. It seems certain that you have a problem with writing and spelling. |
Yes, it is true ...I'm a rich former college drop out(once sports were done, there was no point..) who barely passed English 101.
I'm in therapy now ..which consists of me actively flying all over the world (I'm actually posting this from a hotel room! Lol!!) , walking into hifi shops, spunging up free info from unsuspecting starving AV salespeople!!!
He'll, are there even any electronics sales people still actively employed , besides those working at Best Buy?!!! Lol..that's funny |
Yes Avgoround you missed the post from roxy where he tried to back track and basicly admitted that he has a low tolerance for people who enter his store due to personality and emotional disorders and wants us to feel sorry for him because he has the typical pretensious salesman mentality where he will only pretend to be interested in you if he feels he can hustle a buck off of you.
In have news for you bud its called working for a living. I am a chef in busy high end restaurant. You want to know about stress, pressure and 90 hr work weeks? Come try and keep pace with me for a week and you will be happy to go back to your job in the store with your douchey pals. Boohoo move and amp here or a pair of speakers there....ooh change a few cartridges....your break in our hearts. I curious to know if you work in that shop because your passionate about audio or do you hop from sales job to sales job? You don't come off like you love your job you sound like a hack who treats it like a business. There in lies the problem with the shops. Long gone are the ee abliwhments with genuine enthusiasts who are happy to have any and everybody come in the door. Echo in portland is a great example of a real shop. The only one I buy from and I'm 2500 miles away. Roxy go work retail at the dollar store no tire kickers in there. |
|
Chrshanl37, I'm not that dumb!
..90hrS a week, slaving over a hot kitchen , making UNITS OF ADDITION every two weeks fer a paysteak( I'm 1000% certain this is ur retirement plan..that kitchen), instead of putting in place a well thought out and executed plan to get PAST having to blow on some OTHER restaurant owners dirty dice every day,..begging each week for him to not fire you all the time??!!! Thx, but no thanks!!. I'm only glad verve if you actually LOVED that job of yours..Otherwise, WTH???
btw, I gained a knowledge and had some fun outta college, choosing AV as a job pathetic then...now I use all those connections and acquired info to sell for myself, have all the time in the world to work my investments I learned how to manage, sell the same stuff on eBay for a stream of income, and FLY TO VEGAS ONCE A MONTH TO PLAY!!!
Work??..what's that??.. |
Relax buddy that was meant for Roxy... do not pretend to know me or my financial situation. Not only can you not spell but as Roxy pointed out, you seem to have trouble with basic comprehension. |
Anyone who goes to Vegas once a month is REAL dumb. |
Well I look at my bank accounts n merchandise, and I don't FEEL dumb. Plus, I get to go once a month on average, to the single BEST playground in the entire universe, ON FREEEEE ROLL MONEY!!!
HOW DO I LOSE?!!! Answer?..I CANT!! WINNING!
Of course I could go get a job ..but then I would be less happy, have less cash, have to pay more $$$ to "The Man", n be more horney all the time... Hummmmmmmm..I feel Oookkayy |
Avgoround,
If it's about poker, I support organized and conservative game. There are money there if you know the game. Las Vegas? Not the best spot since there are lots of pros that won't be able to categorize or grab idea on how they play certain hands... Most of the time you see folks with caliber and great strategy.
Suburban local casinos quite often have consistent players that you can recognize and fairly quickly grab idea on how to play against them and win.
If it's type of game against casino dealer, you will be broke very soon. |
This website has become a sounding board for what seems like angry people venting for reasons not pertaining to audio.
In the old days these people would be banned from the site.
By allowing these types of posts I now think that Audiogon should be banned. |
. In the old days these people would be banned from the site.
Seems like you are referring to the golden era of Audiogon (chuckle). . |
Wow .....I'm reading through the last few pages of postings on this forum and I am flipping out. You guys are all nuts ! Why don't you all just take a deep breath and relax. Put some Coltrane on your turntables, pour a nice snifter of single malt scotch, and enjoy the music. Life is too short to be going crazy over this stuff. How about some peace, love, and understanding ? It's all about the music ..... so enjoy it ! |
I'm going to chime in here since I think my earlier comments helped fuel the fire of this thread. I've only been in this hobby about 5 or 6 years even though I've worked in the audio/video production field for over 20 years.
I stated that when I go visit a HiFi shop I go in with a purpose; to audition some gear. I carry my CDs with me and explain that I'm auditioning, for example speakers, and what do they have in a certain price range.
I've adopted this practice after salesmen showed little or no interest in helping me when I was "tire-kicking." Many times I have asked to see some gear and the salesman would set it up and leave the room...there was no interest on his part to ask what components I owned or to have a dialogue with me. Many times the shop was empty, but I still had to go and find the salesguy to ask a question.
When I visit a shop, I'm not pretending to buy anything and it is part of the sales staff's job to try to sell me something. The shop should welcome a customer in these days where money is tight and budgets are lower. And the people in sales should know that their job carries certain risks such as not making a sale that day or losing a sale to another salesman because he has devoted his time to someone like myself.
As I stated earier, this is a hobby and a business where there is constant upgrading on the client's part and a good salesman should want me to return and to refer others to his shop. |
A far as B&M stores are concerned I can vouch for the store that I have been going to for 18 years or so and that store is Audio Connection in Verona N.J. It's run by John Rutan and I must say that I feel extremley fortunate to have access to an establishment like this so near to my home. It's an audio store like no other that I've ever been to. John is also like no other store owner I've ever encountered. He's INTO AUDIO! just like WE ARE!! Of course he runs a business that sells certain brands, etc, but he's a fan of the hobby and has been his entire life, with a wealth of knowledge about the gear past and present.
And also as far as service is concerned, he's bent over backwards to make sure that as a customer, I'm satisfied with the products that I've gotten from him. Just last week I had a tube blow on one of my Quicksilver Amps and he promptly called me after I texted him about it. After diagnosing an issue I had when I replaced the tube, he offered to meet me at the store, (Way after store hours) and take a look. I took him up on his offer and he fixed the amp then and there, and we then proceeded to have a listen and chat a bit. To me this an excellent example of B&M Audio Store owner that is there for his customers. John and his staff at Audio Connection are "real". It's a great place to audition gear, talk audio and even better, to be a loyal customer. That's all I am, a loyal and appreciative customer. |
AudioConnection is far beyond B&M for sure. |
Agreed. I was a customer for years before I moved west. Great guy. |
I want to know where you guys go to "waste" the salesmen's time, because I went into two B&M audio stores in San Francisco and Berkeley and could not get anyone in either place to talk to me, much less try to sell me anything. And, I was there to buy a phono stage! My experience with audio sales clerks is that they would rather listen to the gear in the store and chat with their fellow salesmen than try to sell anything. B&M stores are dying out and it is IMHO due to surly, pretentious sales clerks who couldn't sell ice cream on a hot day! My two cents. |
Face it..For all intents n purposes , THERE ARE NO BRICKS NOR MORTAR LEFT IN THE EQUATION! If any exist, its only some money laundering front to hide the real goings on behind the scenes! Lol!
Good luck making a buck, as a hifi store otherwise |
Avgoround, I don't understand your comment. There are many B&M stores in existence, unfortunately some better and some worse.
If you have enough audio friends that have enough gear, then maybe you don't need a brick and mortar store. But if not, then how do you not only listen and discover which gear you like but how do you know what gear works best together and will work in your room? Endless purchases and trial and error?
If you don't have a good dealer that you can work with you are probably selecting your audio gear based on what someone else has heard (or thinks). |
I had a completely different experience with Audioconnection. Mr. Rutan, after trying to sell me a soon-to-be discontinued Primare amp (he did not mention it at all), refused to take it back when I tried to return it. In addition, anyone in this business can easily understand that Proac + Primare combination can sound very lean and bright. When I shared my views on this combination, he started sending me cables and DACs (like REGA DAC which was supposed to add more bass and meat which was not nearly enough to change the foundation of the sound I was getting).
Finally, I had to put all the components together and went to his store. He simply did not get it and he accused me of, are you ready to hear this..., "trying to buy things that I could not afford!!!" After hearing that I just left the boxes there and attempted to leave. He then accepted the return but kept $250.00 for his spending pleasure (he had also kept another portion of the purchase but later called and refunded).
So Mr. Rutan might be a "man of integrity" when it comes to ringing the register but all that integrity vanishes when you are not happy with what he is trying to sell you.
p.s. by the way...I had been a customer there for some 15 years and introduced him friends who purchased $25,000 worth of equipment. After working in a hedge fund as a PM I was not exactly the bum he was imagining in his pathetic little mind. After I recovered from that trauma, I purchased Devore 3XLs and a Cayin A88T amp and enjoyed the my music collection. I will never ever set foot on that store, ever again. |
Catama
Just had a bad experience in Berkeley. I was interested in a $1200 phono stage. Wouldn't demo it, just kept saying I should buy it's the last one in stock. Left without hearing the phono stage or anything else. This was on my birthday and a weekend vacation no less. I have yet to have a good B & M Experience. |
Many/most B&M stores left are run by trustfund ego-trip types who are not all that worried whether you buy it or not. |
I have not had access to a dealer in almost 40 years. The nearest one is a hundred miles away and I'm not certain they are still in business. In the 1960s I had three dealers in a community of one fourth the size of my present community.
The internet has all but killed local audio dealers. It is a very hard task to be one now days. Audio shows have somewhat replaced dealer and most repairs entail FedEx shipping.
I suspect that the future will see all local dealers of everything other than groceries and restaurants will vanish and chain stores for everything will replace them. |
You sure fooled me that you were happy read your own words... Glad you found it JohnnyR
"""02-17-11: Ticten
I own a Primare I21 married to a pair of Proac Reference 8 Signatures. I can tell you with full conviction that the amp is a fantastic product with exceptional resolution, transparency and tonal quality. I am so happy to find this amp as I stopped searching and just enjoying my music collection. It is also amazing to realize that whether you listen to Alice in Chains or Patricia Barber or Mozart, the listening experience is always rewarding and revealing. I think a lot of people point out that the sound is on the polite side but I actually associate the politeness with a sound stage that is not thrown on your face like a cheap amp would do. Imagine a sound which is very transparent, airy and resonating, with lots of depth and deep base when it is called for. That is Primare.
It is in fact not surprising that BOTH Primare and Proac are not easy to find on Audiogon.
Ticten (Threads | Answers | This Thread)""" |
Indeed. That's first time I hear bad things about Primere amps. |
I found a great place where they are very helpful and have some really nice gear on display....Audio Visual Therapy of Nashua NH....great place , nice people and best of all no tax... I picked up an Anthem MRX 510 for my father from them and they were awesome to deal with and I'll definitely visit them first the next time I buy something
The guys at Spearit Sound in Northhampton MA have always treated me great too.
I used to visit Natural Sound of Framingham MA but I don't trust them. They burnt me on more than one occasion and are real snobs unless they smell $10k in your pocket. The last thing I bought from them was a Velodyne wireless sub kit. They charged me $200 when you can buy it direct through Velodyne at the MSRP of $159 with free shipping... They said "oh,we thought it was $199" when I confronted them and laughed it off, although I did not think it was funny at all...not only that they let it sit in their warehouse for almost three weeks without calling me. After contacting them several times I finally got someone to look into it...and they somehow though it was funny that my item that I had already paid for was put into their stock. That really annoyed me because I was putting my system back together after a flood, I had gone 10 months with my gear packed up.
I'm all for buying locally but why when that's the kind of service you get. They also sold me a used tube, how do I know it was used? Someone had hand written "V2" on the tube...sure enough it was noisy, and you guessed it they would not accept blame or replace it...scumbags
That's OK because after that I purchased an NAD M51 dac, Revel speakers, REL sub and Magnum Dynalab MD102 , all products that they carried......
STAY AWAY |
Audio Visual Therapy in Nashua is a great place. John Rein and crew are top notch. I have been a customer since John was at Ensemble. It all started with a search for a used turntable. John treated me the same way on that $250 TT as if I was spending $25,000 on a system ( which I ended up doing within a year). By way of reference, John and AVT just made the cover of CEPro, one of the industry's trade magazines. |
http://www.collegehumor.com/video/7007564/if-ghandi-took-a-yoga-class |
