What's up with the ridiculous offers?!?

I think we need to keep a sense of humor. Yeah, it's bad, a soft market perhaps. Back when I was trading here on a more frequent basis, I would mention that I was willing to except reasonable offers, but that "low ballers will here the dead silence that this gear offers between tracks!"

You know, by reading this thread, you might think that someone is forcing our poor unsuspecting sellers to sell gear for less than they are willing to take.

i once bought a piece of equipment- my initial offer was accepted without any question- only thereafter to be told my offer was a lowball offer. That was interesting!

I think it’s time for this thread to die.

I just put an offer in of $20 on the op's listing for a jvc projector and selected the $450 overnight shipping option.

I think there are many low-ball offers around, but also many sellers asking for unrealistic prices (I am not implying that you are one of them!). I understand is hard to swallow the loss when you are selling an equipment you bought new and you took lot care of it, but the market always wins...

greginnh, I like it. That is exactly what you do. Buyer should make a formal offer and the seller either accepts it or makes a counter offer. This is work in progress.

Assume you are a very truly honest with your sale, right. You only really know the real value of the item you have. You only, of course you can describe it as honestly as you can. But usually buyers speculate that the seller is just trying to sell for a too high price compared to its "real" value or whatever. So lowballers who maybe really don´t want the item at all just make stupid offers, just try to get it cheap to sell it again for a higher price perhaps. Others just like to have it for cheap, whatever the real "value" may be.
Simply ignore low ballers, you owe then nothing. Wait for a person who truly wants your item (maybe has searched it for ages) AND HE WIIL GET IT and is happy ´cos he ever had the change to get it.
I was selling a NOS Oracle Groove Isolator for nearly 2 years on regular basis here on A´gon. I asked 250 euros for it... reasonable price. A german guy bought it and never asked anything. He even may have had paid for some more perhaps. We both were very very happy. Once I had one very rare record for sale on another (totally free) auction site for 7 years. Suddenly a guy from Åland bought it and couldn´t be more happy.
Collectors search for items that have reasonable prices for THEM, of course. Some wealthy fanatics don´t have to consider the price, just get the desired thing,
IME it´s sellers market but you must be very patient. And wait for another thousand years... but it is worth. Frankly, I prefer eBay and always auction ´cos that reveals the real deals.

what is lowball to me is also different for an item that has been listed for under one hour vs an item that is unsold after 25 days...

Just had the same thing happen. I have a "9" component listed for roughly 55% of it's new price, and get an offer 25% below that. I respond with a counter in-between. Response: Declined. I think you're right. These are dealers just wanting to get an absolute bargain, so they can resell it for more elsewhere. Hey, it's America. I've got no problem with that. I just wonder if that's what Audiogon had in mind. One problem w/ the interface is that once a counter offer is declined, Audiogon closes out the offer completely, so you don't have a chance to make a counter-counter.

That's a great question - I think different people have different ideas of what a lowball offer is. 

In in my world, there are 2 types of offers- accepted offers and unaccepted offers- and that's whether I am a buyer or a seller. 

Hi All!

I have a question.  What is considered a lowball offer?  One dollar less than asking price?  Ten percent less than asking price?  Something else?

The only purchase I've made on Audiogon, the guy had a reasonable price and I paid what he asked. But on Ebay and Craigslist, you will get lots of lowball offers, and sellers have increased their asking prices correspondingly. In some cases, the price is more than what the current retail price is and more than than the manufacturer's price. It's a game. 

I will give as an example this Oliver Nelson box set, available from the manufacturer at $102.00 

http://www.mosaicrecords.com/prodinfo.asp?number=233-MD-CD

Now check Ebay and Amazon to see what some sellers are asking. It's pretty funny.

I do find much less of these annoying bottom feeders on the other audio sale sites. These boards are heavily modified, so do a little work and you can find them. Ads are still free, sort of like Audiogon of many moons ago.

Of course traffic is much lighter too, because many buyers only know of Audiogon and Fleabay.

Patience is a virtue, as a buyer and a seller. I only list on Audiogon if I need to sell something quickly. Normally, I prefer to use the other sites, and just take 3-4 months to sell it, as most of the inquiries are from real audiophiles, not Kmart blue light special shoppers.

I just sold a bunch of stuff this week. I countered low-ball offers with DECLINE and reasonable offers with counter offers.  I ended up with between 85% to 90% of my asking price for all items. 

I was was happy with outcome and it was rewarding not to waste time with low-ballers!

If you want to see lowball offers run a car for sale. I was getting offers of 40 percent what I was asking. And I don't just mean 1 or 2 low ballets. I was getting them everyday till I pulled the ad. Talk about a headache. 

Some of us have been around since AG's inception in 1997. Some of were recruited from rec.audio usenet newsgroups to join this new forum "audiogon."The AG of old is long gone. For about 7-8 years we had a great run for both listing and buying gear. 

But whether it's craigs, the bay, or AG, "lowball" offers are commonplace. Everyone wants a steal. Getting bent out of shape with lowballer's is a waste of energy. If your skin is that thin, list a firm price on your item and leave it until it sells - or not. 

Low ballers are like telemarketers, there's always a chance, however slim, of success.    From my experience I just ignore them.

 The way I respond to low balers when selling speakers , the price is for the pair not one speaker. Not only people expect 60 per cent off list on a 9/10 condition product , they always ask me where is the bass? Slight discoloration in the veneer in which is in the natural of the wood. Also a 3 year warranty . I sold all my high end gear losing to much money and the Morons . I purchase a Rotel R-12 intergrated amp and the new Sonus Faber there bottom line speakers 1600 a pair sounds as good as it gets. Could be better with the new B&W 804 D2 speakers , Here we go

va6007 You are lucky that my respond to you, which i wrote for 15min was incidentally deleted and i don’t care to right it again. Your post, thats what really insulting and annoying BS.

As with all things, the AudiogoN community is becoming inundated with youngsters (millennials) who are ether in it to make a buck, or just want to see how far a seller will go.  It is much easier to offer a ridiculous offer to someone over AudiogoN than to one's face.  I always look at feedback and number of transactions to get an idea about the buyer for my items.  Usually, if I wait long enough, I will find a buyer that understands fair trading and sees the value of what I am selling.

For me, it's a matter of getting the best possible deal. I'm on a tight budget, so "value" is always my top objective and the primary reason I often purchase 2nd hand equipment, as opposed to new. I always offer low. It's your responsibility as the seller to make a judgement, at that point. Don't expect the buyer to act in your interests, that's naive. In any case, the solution is easy, if the offer is too low for you, don't accept it and move on or make a counter offer. Simple enough, isn't it?

Greg,
 there is an underlying effect of online trading that pushes everyone to expect low-ball prices. Plus there are trading movements that  eat up traditional margins you may have enjoyed. For instance, my 2nd business of many years is trading performance vehicles, the change made by the internet is that my sources (Car Auctions) all have now shifted to retail and only auction if a vehicle does not sell for a month, using the same online outlets as myself. Therefore I am shoulder to shoulder with my supplier who just ate my lunch!
Its something that many businesses don't see coming, and even small sites (initially) like PartsTrader, a gateway for salvage parts to repairers, now controls the industry, and guess which way salvage car parts have gone?
So I suppose rule 1 is who controls the data sets the price, and the lowest searched for price - even historically - not current, is the datum.
And rule 2 is that traditional supply chains are not static, and will change and be replaced by those online sites with critical mass and volume.
On a final note selling my Quad ESL 63's a few years back a guy called and immediately went on the attack offering a third of the asking, and being very aggressive, inferring I would be lucky to have him buy them. My response was "Guess what? YOU cant buy them because I wont sell the to you." Hung up and he called back with a torrent of abuse, I replied " You need to know how to talk to a grown up when you are buying something, and you still wont be able to buy these from me."
Difference is that most popular Hi-fi pieces have a known value such as ESL63's - more exotic stuff that's not so well known - good luck getting anywhere near a high percentile of purchase.
I think also that buying cold from Hi-Fi reviews is fading, as someone SOMEWHERE would have reviewed them as the best thing since sliced bread beating others at many times the price - sound familiar?

I agree with those who don't like "What's your bottom line?" Almost always, I answer, "Make me an offer and if I don't accept it, I'll counter it."  Asking for a lower price without making an offer is a tedious and juvenile negotiating tactic -- which doesn't mean that it always fails.

May I introduce you to the "Delete" key?

When I am a buyer, I confess to trying to pay the least I can for the best quality. When I am selling, the best answer to an offer that is too low is "no." Either way, I can't relate to those who get "personally insulted." It about the equipment, not the person.

I think it is lower caliber people who are looking to buy quality equipment cheap to resell. 
People who are not true audiophiles just people looking to make a buck. I receive lowball offers as well, and I love the ones who try to pressure you into selling for what they want to pay. Speaking for myself, when I am selling something it is because I have bought something I like better and just want to sell the item so it is not just collecting dust. If it takes a year to sell something it bothers me not. 
The lowballers are idiots. I usually do not even respond rediculous offers. 

In my opinion and to offer an explanation not yet posted in this thread, most NEW hi-end audio equipment is WAY overpriced to begin with. Personally I like to buy only new items (in everything not just audio equipment). People have no choice but to price a used item commensurate with the cost of the same item when new, less wear and tear. Also, and again in my opinion, audio equipment is similar to the jewelry market. A typically "very good quality" 1 carrot diamond cost approximately $5000. If you buy it for 5K in the diamond district it comes with a GSA certification and appraisal for $9000. At the time you go try and sell it you would be lucky to get $3000. You have to loose it and make a claim through insurance and then you can get closer to your 5K. Maybe we should have an official audio appraisal entity, ensure the items, have them "vanish" and make a claim. I'll bet you can get more for your used equipment that way!

I tried to make a counter offer higher than my listing price. You cannot do it. 

I've been an audiophile since the 70's....have been through a lot of used equipment as I love experiencing different preamps, amps, cartridges, tuners, speaker/power/tonearm/headshell/digital coax/interconnect wires/machines to clean records/CDs/tapes/gizmos/whizbangs and "magic" dots/markers/sprays/magnetizers/demagnetizers etc, etc, etc. I have bought and sold and traded for those via Audiomart, the New York Times ads ('70's), Stereophile, Craigslist, Audiogon, US Audiomart....love communicating with other audio nuts who enjoy trying and passing on equipment to others.  I've been offered significantly less than what I felt was fair without getting my feathers ruffled...politely declining their offer, sometimes only to have the same person later place a fairer offer.  I've even sold at significantly lower-than-hoped-price on inexpensive items to "beginner audiophiles", usually college students who have just discovered our hobby of getting good components together synergistically to have sweet music.  Everybody loves a bargain - can't blame people for trying.

I guess what I'm learning about these "low ballers" is that, when they want to make their offer outside of the formal "offer" on Audiogon, say they want to pay cash and local pickup, that's a real "red flag".  At least if you require them to make a formal offer on the site, if they don't consummate the deal, you can ding them on their feedback.

I posted earlier about that guy who changed his "offer", reducing the amount we agreed on by phone by $600, when he was in my driveway.  Funny thing was, after he made that "offer" and I said "no, I don't deal with people like you", he asked if he could at least see the unit.  Funny guy!

In part, this trend may be a reaction to the glut of way over-priced new gear on the market, designed to attract those with no taste, no experience, and no knowledge who only think they know that the more something costs, the more they want to have it.

When someone asks me for my "lowest price", I always decline to answer.  Instead, I ask that person, "Why should I bid against myself?  If you are interested, please make an offer, and I will respond to your offer."  That either ends the conversation (fine with me) or leads to negotiation and a reasonable sale price.

Greg, there you go.  You do what you deem appropo.  Just because 'we' can act uncouth and annoying, doesn't mean you need to stoop.  Your game, your game plan....run it. ;)

The annoying part for me is getting messages stating something like "if you can lower the price to x, I will take the item".  When I do respond with "yes", they never make the offer. Now, I just decline ridiculous offers and tell the others to make a formal offer using the Agon process and I will consider the offer.

IMHO, it began in earnest when cell providers started 'giving away' cells with contracts.  People noted the retail price of the item, and began to think that this sort of pricing might apply to any electronic item.  This line of reasoning was augmented by the pricing applied to flat screen TV's.  What used to be 'pricey' would be marked down so quickly that it would appear that anything a year or two old in terms of it's appearance on the market was now available for a song....and not even one sung well. *L*  And i've not even gotten to the 'haggle factor', because they don't know if you're serious even if you've posted that it's not up to negotiation.  If priced fairly, those that know will respond appropriately.  Those that don't, or just want to jerk your chain to see if you'll bite can be dealt with however you feel is or isn't worth your time.  We're in the 'buyer beware' era.  Nobody wants to get hosed, but nobody wants to give things away, either.  This sort of 'combat zone' exists on our freeways in a related fashion.  Most will 'play nice', but there's the few that seem almost psychopathic in their approach to driving.
I'd prescribe a grain of salt, but modern society seems to have inflated that to the size of a salt lick BLOCK.  Just roll with it, and channel your better self.  You'll sleep better... 

"Is this a new feature in Agon? Listing AUTOMATICALLY negotiates by itself once listed?" 

No, but listing something for sale commences the sales process thus is the start of the negotiations process because the seller is posting at a price point. 

I do do not and have never advocated negotiating against ones self

Meh not that big a deal, I either decline or make a reasonable counter-offer. Seriously nothing to lost sleep over.

i acknowledge , by any accepted standard, acting  that this is american and a buyer should be free to make stupid lowball offers, which the seller is free to ignore. however, some of us still cling to the illusion that audiogon, as opposed to other marketplaces, is (or is supposed to be) a community of enthusiasts who are bound by some code of courtesy and fair dealing. hence i get more annoyed than i should at buyers or sellers who, by any accepted norm, making dumb offers.

You don't have to respond, and if you decide to respond, just say thank you, no.  No explanation required.

An item, any item (car, watch, art, audio equipment, camera, etc.) is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay. Regardless of what you feel the item is worth is really irrelevant.

You can post the item and list a price and the negotiations start from there.  If you are firm in your price, then say that, and ignore anyone that lowballs. 

If a buyer is really serious, then they will contact you with a serious offer.

I collect rare books, watches, classic cars, etc.  I can tell you there are two types of buyers.  1) the collector and 2) the dealer.

The collector wants that item and is willing to pay near or above market prices for that item.  The dealer simply wants to flip the item and therefore, they want to pay pretty much nothing for it, then turn around and flip it for as much as they can.

No difference in the audio industry here on audiogon.  You don't know whom you are dealing with. I try to not be desperate to sell something and therefore, I can list the item at what I feel is a fair price based on market values.  Maybe slightly lower than the average market rate and I typically have no trouble selling the item.

I ignore the lowballers that come in with stupidly low counter offers. 
Someone will eventually want the piece.

enjoy

The OP may well have been one of those dealers who lowball offers here in order to buy cheap and resell that have been mentioned.   Trying to deter the competition.

negotiation stars the moment you list something for sale

Is this a new feature in Agon?  Listing AUTOMATICALLY negotiates by itself once listed?   

schubert2,777 posts01-25-2016 10:28amWhats something worth ? What someone else will give you .

I think this is the 1st time we agreed ... what someone else, a BUYER, will give you.  Only STUPID sellers negotiate with him or herself.

Whats something worth ? What someone else will give you .

"I agree with jmcgrogan2, negotiation starts from someone making an offer and negotiate"

negotiation stars the moment you list something for sale

"Thank you, no".

"I have come to the conclusion that it's a cultural thing"

I guess that is a way to be politically correct. 

I've spent the past 38 years in the real estate business. The haggling is predominant there too.  I can't tell you how many times I've had a seller and a buyer come to an agreement, opened escrow, then 15 days later the buyer wants to start nickle and dime-ing the seller to death. For example, if one flaw is found in the property during the professional property inspection, that's a signal for the buyer to ask for another few thousand dollars to come off of the agreed upon price. I've seen a drastic change in this over the past 20 years or so. I've come to the conclusion that its a cultural thing. The days of the handshake being a man's bond is way past us guys ... way past us. 

Seems like the poster disappeared after jmcgrogan2 asked if he/she was a dealer.
What's up with that?

Audio is my hobby, not my business.

When you list a component for sale, it's no longer a hobby but a business.

I agree with jmcgrogan2, negotiation starts from someone making an offer and negotiate from there.    I don't reply to "what’s your bottom line?" ... I don't negotiate with myself.

C'mon....ya gotta haggle!  (Monty Python)

not really an issue, just an annoyance and a reminder how much this site has changed...

Just say no.  Or yes.  Whatever.