LMAO I am sorry but I have been in this hobby for years and not meaning to start a flaming war but seriously thousands for a record cleaner? I literally am shaking my head right now because the 1st thing comes to mind is Harley Davidson riders. Total sheep. Buy into anything Harley. If it's branded HD they flock like sheep and will spend $$$$ because of either ignorance or buy into their expert marketing. Guys really I get bored also and over analyze this hobby but wake up and smell the roses. If it makes you feel better and have the money to waste feel free but your conscience has to get the better of you. Geez!!!
Why are record cleaners so expensive?
Full disclosure: I have only the Spin-Clean record cleaner and a Hunt EDA brush to clean my vinyl, but as someone who's been in the digital side of audiophilia for decades, and as someone who knows how much gear can get in any dedicated hobby, I'm still curious as to why a high end vinyl cleaner can cost more than three grand.
I'm not disputing the price; after all, Smith said that something's worth whatever someone pays for it. Moreover, a high end record cleaner might be able to do things to vinyl that nothing else can. Still, paying three grand for an Audio Desk cleaner seems a bit out of reason. $3K can buy a good set of speakers; a hand-made fly-fishing rod based on your height and weight and arm length; two weeks at a Fijian resort for two; a custom-made suit from an Italian mill. So why is a glorified vacuum cleaner $3K?
Again, not flaming, just curious. Enlighten me?
s
I'm not disputing the price; after all, Smith said that something's worth whatever someone pays for it. Moreover, a high end record cleaner might be able to do things to vinyl that nothing else can. Still, paying three grand for an Audio Desk cleaner seems a bit out of reason. $3K can buy a good set of speakers; a hand-made fly-fishing rod based on your height and weight and arm length; two weeks at a Fijian resort for two; a custom-made suit from an Italian mill. So why is a glorified vacuum cleaner $3K?
Again, not flaming, just curious. Enlighten me?
s
77 responses Add your response
samzx12LMAO
I am sorry but I have been in this hobby for years and not meaning to
start a flaming war but seriously thousands for a record cleaner? ... If it makes you feel better and have the money to waste feel free but
your conscience has to get the better of you." I don't understand. Are you saying that if you think spending thousands of dollars on a record cleaner is a waste, my conscience should keep me from buying one? |
Cleeds what I am saying spending that much on a cleaner is just nuts. But of course if you can afford a gazillion dollar cleaner and it makes you feel good then so be it but there has to a little voice in your head saying this is ridiculous and I have to not be of sound mind lol. :) Dgarretson cool bikes. One of my riding buddies has a Ninja 1000 but not with ABS. I have a Triumph Speed Triple. Before that it was a Honda CBR1000rr. Not sure where you live but I am in Lexington KY so not too far from the Smokies :) |
I don't hear that voice. I do like vintage bikes, though. Gave up riding a few years ago. Mostly had Italian bikes, though I did have one Harley- a V-Rod, which was a great motor in search of a decent bike. The chassis flexed, the brakes didn't work very well (I was told that's typical for HD), so I installed Brembos on it and stripped it down to a bobber. It was actually a nice bike at cruising speeds, heavy, low, easy to ride, but not very nimble. If I were going to analogize the cleaning machines I have here to bikes, the Monks is almost like a Brough- dated in design, but still performs at the top tier. Only difference, it doesn't leak oil. :) |
DG, you are going to LOVE that Elmasonic. Nothing like German precision, here as elsewhere. I clean for 12 minutes at 80 KH, more for the very dirty. Enjoy! Steve, it's very simple to test: clean a record the conventional way, dip it half into the US tank, cook it for an hour, rinse, dry, and play. The sound will change dramatically about every second. If you prefer the sound from the US side, you have your answer. This I have done - and the answer, to me, is obvious. |
Simao, great question you pose. If you have not been around agon that long you probably were not expecting an ambush! Some around here wear their opinions and stereo hobby on their shoulders. i have used a VPI 16.5 for years and it has worked wonders. Do I enjoy cleaning records....no, is it a little labor intensive....yes. But all things vinyl come with a little work but the end results are worth it for me. And I agree, memories are way better than material objects! good listening. |
Terry The question I was trying to raise is whether an ultrasonic cleaner achieves its results at the expense of loss of high frequency data. There have been some anecdotal reports of this result: cleaned records are silent, but lacking in presence. If true, this would be a serious problem, as it goes to a principal benefit of vinyl as a music source. One could test for this by measuring frequency response before and after ultrasonic cleaning. Steve |
Minkwelder, Paisan, was it a fly yellow '98 monoposte? Terry9, Thanks for the encouragement to stretch for the Elma Sonic. I haven't heard that much praise of "german engineering" since the Volkswagen saga...we'll see how it goes. Samzx12, I envy your moto location. I did the Blue Ridge & Diamondback loop last fall on the Ninja with full bags and the wife. On a side trip I followed three local long-beards with ladies on Harleys from the ridge down into a valley for gas. I was fairly impressed how well they ran their hogs through the twisties. It's a great place to learn. |
I took delivery today of an Elma P60H. So far cleaned just one record for 5 minutes at 37khz and 15 min at 80khz. The Elma removed loads of noise that the Chinese unit couldn't touch, and it's quiet enough to use in the room while listening to music. Its advanced features and quality build appear instrument grade. The other piece of this DIY ultrasonic cleaner is at: https://thevinylstack.com/ultrasonic-cleaning/ultra-sonic-spin-record-cleaning-kit/
|
dgarretson: I’d be interested to know how many records you’ve been running in your Chinese made (40khz?) tank with the Vinyl Stack while still being able to get consistently good results on every side of every record? Are you using the "wider" spacers that Vinyl Stack offers as an option? Obviously you just got the Elma Sonic cleaner, but I am curious how "even" you find the cleaning with the Elma cleaner with varying number(s) of records loaded on the Vinyl Stack? If I was going to buy a tank cleaner to use then I’d probably also want to get the Elma P60H. I’ve been cleaning with Audio Desk and Klaudio machines for almost 3 years now, and have 2 of each machine, but tank cleaners are interesting since they would allow increased productivity, but I’d need to be sure that quality would be as good or better than the "single slot" machines. How are you drying your records? Much of what I’ve read online in the last 3 years indicates that 80khz would be useful, and apparently smaller cavitation bubbles are gentler on the records, all other things being equal. Another option would be a 60khz tank, I know Sonix makes one, and it may even be US made, so more than Chinese units, but less $ than the German made Elma. Thanks, Dave |
Samzx12, I envy your moto location. I did the Blue Ridge & Diamondback loop last fall on the Ninja with full bags and the wife. On a side trip I followed three local long-beards with ladies on Harleys from the ridge down into a valley for gas. I was fairly impressed how well they ran their hogs through the twisties. It's a great place to learn.
The Smokies are some of the best roads in this part of the country. Thats hilarious you following the HD guys as unfortunately I have done that several times. Some of those guys can ride and some get majorly pissed off if you pass them. Let the faster riders through plain and simple. But like you I did follow this guy and his lady throught Deals Gap one pass and he could ride. The dude was dragging hard parts through every corner so I stayed back and enjoyed the show. When we stopped at the Overlook I went over and shook his hand and said great job throwing that heavy bike and dragging parts. He laughed and said thanks and we chatted it up for awhile. |
Quote....... I have owned and used My Loricraft since the early eighties. Have a collection near 8000 lp's and have also cleaned literally thousands for some friends as well. Its well over 3 decades old and still going strong. So just WT% is your point above. |
I have always thought speaker wires and the rest of wires on the market tops at laughable prices . We purchased a Lori-craft one about seventeen years ago and love it for how effective it is on older used records . I forget what we payed for it but it was expensive. It has more then payed for itself over the years keeping our record collection some of it rare in prestine condition and sounding great , We also have a German made dish washer which cost a couple thousand dollars which has been doing a great job since 2008. I guess some might use a fifteen cent j cloth , soap and a sink of hot water for their dishes and laugh at someone spending any amount of money on a dishwasher , Yes , each to their own . |
samzx12 Just for fun.. Please send me 5 of your favourite records. They don't need to be valuable, or audiophile pressings, just some that you know well and enjoy. I will double-clean them on my Audio Desk and Klaudio machines for FREE, you just pay postage.. That's $25 of free cleaning - If samzx12 doesn't want to take me up on the offer, then another thread contributor should please let me know if they would like to do it and report back to the thread! You could then decide from first-hand personal experience: 1 - Do expensive ultrasonic record cleaning machines make a real world difference that's worthwhile? 2 - Is the difference one that's easily heard on your system? 3 - Does that difference matter to you as much as spending money on upgrading equipment? Let me know! Dave |
I have never owned a record cleaning machine. That said I play records nearly every day, and I clean them with a Audio Technica record brush and a record cleaning solution that I got out of the December 1996 Stereophile magazine. Over half of my Lp's are used, however after years of play none have any substantial clicks, ticks or pops. I clean at every play. Friends often remark at how silent they are. If anyone wants a copy of the formula just email me for the pdf. n at normansizemore dot com. Norman |
Hey All! I just bought a used Audio Desk Systeme for $2,300 off ebay and.... Wow. I've had a trusty Spin-Clean for years now and the Audio Desk is really amazing. I'm just now listening to an old '80's Jean Luc Ponty album that I recently bought at a garage sale. Looked OK, but I wasn't expecting great sonics. After its little micro-bubble scrubbing this used and abused record could now be used in demo rooms for mega-buck systems. I'm just blown away. I was thinking about buying a $3,000 cartridge soon (currently using a Clearaudio Maestro v.2 MM cart) and now.... forget it. My stereo has never sounded so sublime. I can't wait to start scouring the used record stores again! |
http://hifiheaven.net/shop/Ultra-Systems-A-Rings If this gives you guys any idea of the true mark-up, I can tell you that the electronics inside that machine probably cost less than 100 dollars. The 3 grand price point is because people will pay it. |
I had a vpi 16.5 and currently have a nitty gritty,when i wrap up a couple loose ends with my setup I will certainly be looking to step up.I look at it like this ,even when I have a cleaned lp and grab it out I instantly walk towards my cleaner out of habit .It becomes just part of the steps to play vinyl to me ,clean,static etc.The better the vinyl is cleaned the less i hear and also the more i hear , so i believe a cleaner needs to reflect the caliber of what your trying to achieve.Just add it in to the front end cost,I could see having a couple grand in a cleaning setup personnally .. |