Years ago a shop near me carried Vandersteens, and while they were okay, I never regarded them as anything special-these were the 1b's and 2's. I carried this assumption with me for over 20 years.
Well, today, after hearing the newest versions of both of these, I can honestly say I had no idea they were so good.
I was totally blown away by their sound. Very coherent, top to bottom cohesivness, good tonality, and just plain fun.
And the fact that you get that type of sound for so little money boggles the mind. My friend commented that they make many speakers seem very overpriced.
Well, it was certainly a wake up call for me--to quit assuming that I know so much about audio.
I can't see how you could go wrong going up the Vandersteen ladder. Can't wait to hear the 3's....
I'm a believer! |
Nicely said, Mrmitch. For me, the overwhelming purpose of my participation in our "audiophile hobby" is the pure and simple enjoyment of music. Beyond that, I very much cherish all the interchange of ideas and advice that we share on these Audiogon forums. It is extremely educational and thought provoking to converse with all of you about our audio systems and ideas for their improvement, and it's really a lot of fun to be part of this discussion community. Participating in these forums is a wonderful way to learn more about our hobby, and to explore the vast wealth of knowledge that all you guys are so willing to share. As a result, I continue to realize how much I love listening to music, and how much I enjoy the many hours I spend in my "sweet spot chair" in front of my Vandersteens, with a smile on my face as the music stirs my soul. For all of this, I am quite thankful. |
Hi all! Just as an aside to Adam's or anybody's quest for better sound, I would just say this: Advice by the members of our community is always a welcome thing. I would hope anyone here is wise enough to take advice on components as just that....advice, not the Gospel. It's up to each one of us to gather all possible information including listening with our own ears in our homes, then synthesize the gathered info into making an intelligent choice for ourselves. Just my thoughts on the subject of what to do with members' advice.--Mrmitch |
Thanks for the subwoofer idea..... John Rutan had suggested this a while back. I'd have to send my Rogue Cronus back for modifications so it can connect to the sub(s) and the 1C's. For the $$$ involved in modifying my amp and buying the sub(s), it's propbably a similar investment as selling my 1C's and buying a new pair of 2Ce Signature II's. Meanwhile, until my "personal economy" improves, I'm extremely happy enjoying my wonderful system just as it is right now. Happy Listening, and best wishes to all of you for a Happy Thanksgiving !! |
Good point, Iser. I added a pair of 2Wqs to my 1Cs a few years ago. I can't imagine a better value (especially at used prices) in subs than these. As I sought to upgrade speakers, keeping the 2Wqs was never in doubt. To my delight, the 2Wqs blend beautifully with my Ohms, which are quite different than the 1Cs. I just dropped each 2Wq into a corner, dialed in the controls, and got tight, deep bass that energizes the room - and my guts! No boomy, one-note bass whatsoever. Best of all, the 2Wqs are simply invisible: It just seems like your main speakers are on steroids. |
11-14-09 iser
Another option is the use of a 2wq sub. This will further enhance the performance of the main speakers by relieving your amp from having to drive the full range speakers.It really opens up the mid range and tweeters.I use to have vand 2c's added a 2wq and was amazed by the change in sound. Have since moved to 3a sig's still use 2wq love them. With the 2wq integration with the mains is no problem. Look on Vandersteen home page for more info on the 2wq its a great read. iser |
Been there, done that..... You're absolutely correct, Stringreen. Over the past two years, I've swapped out the stock power cords for SignalCable MagiCord AC lines, I've carefully followed Richard's guidelines with my Vandersteens placement and tilt-back, I've upgraded my interconnects to AQ King Cobras, I've replaced my Rega table's felt with a Herbie's mat, I've added the Rega TT-PSU, and I've played around with the room's furniture positions ......all in an attempt to optimize my system's sound. All these "changes and upgrades" have brought a sense of cumulative improvement that's been pretty noticeable to my ears and to the ears of my family and friends.
So thanks for your response. By the way, your system looks like it's mighty fine. I bet it sounds great. Enjoy your music, and Happy Listening !. |
..by the way DR. Adam.....you can do lots of things to make your system sound better than changing speakers. How 'bout experimenting with cables, placement, resonance control devices, AC plugs, etc. |
Hi Bondman.....I really enjoyed reading your thread, and your "chronicles" describing your experiences with your new Ohm speakers. I remember when I was a surgery resident back in the early 1980's, my buddy had an Ohm Walsh based system, with a Marantz receiver and a Thorens table. I was enjoying my Yamaha receiver, Mission 717 speakers, and Beogram turntable at that time, and I remember that we both loved spending our listening time in front of both set-ups. His Ohm speakers were definitely very special, and I'm looking forward to reading more about your new speakers as time goes by. Happy Listening ! |
Adam18: You probably do not want to hear about this, but I am in the process of upgrading from Vandy 1Cs as well. Since my room does not have the space for the larger-profile 2Ces Sig IIs (an otherwise natural upgrade, considering I have Vandy center and surrounds as well), I am looking elsewhere.
If you go to the last page of this thread:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1223044851
you'll be able to follow my experiences. I know you said you are settled for now, but my rig has too many similarities to yours (see my "system" link) for me not to have mentioned this. Therefore, I think you will find my experience very interesting. |
Thanks for the update. Good to hear you're system is singing. |
I've just finished re-reading all the responses to my original post on this thread from last October, and I still want to let all you guys know how much I truly appreciate all your tremendously helpful feedback and advice.
So...., in order to keep you all updated,......I have been enjoying a wonderful upgrade to the beautiful music created by my Vandersteen 1C's. I greatly improved my analog front end by switching to the Rega P3-24 turntable with the Rega Exact 2 cartridge and Rega TT-PSU power supply. The sublime change in the way the Vandy's now "sing their sweet music" has been incredible, and the speakers now sound better than ever. I also built home-made isolation platforms for both the table and the Rotel CD deck (with Vibrapods and MDF boards,) and this also led to an improvement in how the speakers sound. Finally, with the educated advice of Nick and Mark at Rogue Audio, I swapped out the five stock "small tubes" in my amplifier for some hand-picked NOS tubes, and this too led to a very noticeable improvement in the way I've been enjoying the music throught the 1C's.
So for now, I'm truly loving my system, and I'll hold on the Vandersteen 1C's for a while. I'm just amazed at the way the improvements in the rest of the "audio chain' have enhanced the wonderful musical qualities of the speakers.
I hope that you are all doing well, and are enjoying the music as much as I am.
Happy Listening, my friends. |
If you're looking for a different sound, listen to anything you get a chance to and if you like what you hear, read up on it further.
If you like what you have, stay put. |
Wow, Mrtennis............Very insightful philosophical thoughts. These ideas can be extended to quite a few realms far beyond audio decisions. Well said, sir ! |
if you learn on your own without any assistance from others, you will make some mistakes and be dissatisfied , at times.
if you follow the advice and opinions of others, you will make mistakes and perhaps be disappointed with your purchases, as well.
there is no evidence that making decisions based upon what others say is any more rewarding than making your own decisions.
in this case, the results of any decision are not predictable, so you might as well buy any speaker, so long as it can be be resold with a minimum loss to you. |
Auditions in a dealer's show room are over rated. How can you know what any piece will sound like in your room, with your equipment? Listening to five or fifteen cuts in a showroom can lead to false impressions.
My tried and true method is find a good deal used, evaluate at your leisure and keep or resell depending on results. I have neither the time nor the inclination to spend two or three afternoons with local dealers who may or may not have my interest in mind. Also, they usually bore the hell out of me. |
Mrtennis....In an ideal world, YES...the auditioning process is a fantastic idea. However, many of us live in areas where it isn't possible to audition "as many products as you can afford" due to a total lack of quality audio dealers within reasonable driving distance. Therefore, one of the many things I appreciate about our Audiogon forums is the ability to exchange ideas in an effort to "narrow down the choices," so as to properly plan the necessary "auditioning road trips." |
onstead of asking for advice, why not audition as many products you can afford ? your ears will tell you if there is an improvemnt in sound relative to what you own now. |
I'd check out a KAB Technics SL1200 over the Rega, but that's a topic for another thread.
But back to your orignal topic...IMHO the Vandersteen 2ce Sig II speakers are *the* biggest speaker bang for the buck. They were on my short list, but my room wouldn't allow them. |
Rogue Audio and Vandersteen seem to be a wonderful match. I really love my Vandy 1C's with the Cronus, and will probably upgrade to the 2Ce Sig. II's as the budget allows. For now, I'm busy upgrading my analog front end, and am about to sell my NAD 533/Goldring Elektra set-up, and buy a new Rega P3-24/Rega Exact rig. Needless to say, I am incredibly psyched for this improvement. The new Rega set-up should work beautifully with my Rogue/Vandersteen system. |
Ive heard Vandersteen 3A's powered by Rogue amps in John Rutan's establishment, and they sounded wonderful. He also has some set up with the amp I use, the Belles 350A. Just an aside about John, I had a problem with the drawer of my Wadia 830 CD player sticking in the closed position. I told John that I had purchased it from an Audiogon member , and not from him. He still sent it to Wadia for repair, and it was not under warranty any longer!--Mrmitch |
In the case of Vandersteens, bi-wiring does actually make a difference for the better, not so with most speakers - I think that in VS' case it is more than "appealing" to the marketplace. |
Do Vandys (3A sigs or Quattros) need biwiring to sound nice?
In Stereophile, it was mentioned that the Quattros had
TMI (too much info). (This was about the non-Wood Quattro version.)
Any comments on this? Thanks in advance. (And thanks for
letting me borrow your thread, Adam18.) |
Wow......You guys are fantastic !! Thanks so much for all your ideas and all your support. I love my music, and I love our hobby. The ongoing pursuit of audiophile perfection must always remain closely related to our honest enjoyment of the music. Listening to our favorite tunes, on the equipment which keeps us constantly energized and allows us to remain acutely aware of our options to upgrade and improve our systems, is the guiding light which keeps us going. YES....I will upgrade, both my speakers (staying with Vandersteen) and my analog front end. My purchase decisions will be based on the wonderful education I've been exposed to on this forum, and it truly is an honor to be part of a "community of learners and teachers" that is the core of the Audiogon experience.
Now, let's all sit back, relax, and enjoy spinning our CD's and LP's. Listen to the songs, smile, and appreciate the talents of the composers, songwriters, and players who make us happy. |
Well said Sonofjim.
The first speakers I heard at an audio shop were Vandersteens. They blew me away. The holograghy was incredable. For some reason I didn't buy them but instead bought two dozen others from Planar to ribbon to single driver, etc. I think now, ten years latter, it's Vandersteen time. |
I had no doubt that Adam18 would eventually upgrade when I made my post but as long as the system moves you why change? There's no harm in exploring your options and this is a great place to do it. I would hate to think any advise I offered caused someone to spend money on something they may not want or need. I think we should all applaud Adam18 for realizing that he's happy right now, and more informed on his options. |
It seems trite, but "enjoying the music" is so important. I know you do Adam18, and you will continue to as you "upgrade" in the coming years, just keep your eye on the target, enjoying the music. Stick with Vandersteen, it will always bring you them music and keep you from getting distracted in pursuit of the this month's "best". |
Yea Adam, since Sam insulted you and you took the high road I guess now he's OK with that. |
Adam annoyance gone! Your willingness to stick it out and continue to respond is refreshing, post what happens.
Sam |
Yes, Samhar.....I do love music. I was trained as a classical cellist, and my heart now belongs to 1950's - 1960's jazz and the "classic rock" of my younger days. And, yes indeed, I have benefitted from all the responses, and I am very grateful that everyone has taken the time to help make this forum such a wonderful place to exchange ideas. Thank you so much for your good wishes, and I'm very happy that we share a deep appreciation for music and all our attempts to lovingly reproduce it in our homes. |
"This has been a great exchange of ideas........So, maybe I'll just leave well enough alone for now, and keep on enjoying my system just the way it is. Who knows ?? This crazy hobby of ours certainly is a lot of fun. Take care, ya'all, and Happy Listening. I'll keep you posted".
This is what I addressed!!
That being said it's obvious you love music and I hope you benefit from all the responses!
Enjoy your 2Ce MKll's and here's to improving INNER DETAIL and DYNAMICS!!! |
I actually appreciate that a follow up was posted. Regardless of what happens, I like to know what became of the advise offered. |
I'll tell you from expierence! Their might be some speakers(that cost a whole lot more) that push this or that, but Vandys always come through. If you build a rig around Vandys you'll always be aright. I've heard dealers say."Vandy's are fine if you want to stay safe", let the Vandy naysayers come forth! But. Vandys are some of the best speakers you can buy until you know what you want as far as needing freq. direction. |
Samhar.......I'm sorry that you are annoyed. My intent is very much the pursuit of better speakers, and thanks to everyone who has commented, I will probably wind up buying the 2CE Sig./II's. Your "time and energy" is very much appreciated, as is the time and energy of all my fellow Audiogoners, but isn't a very important part of our hobby the exchange of lucid and enlightened ideas so that the philosophies behind "high end audio" can be shared and discussed by all ? So try to put aside your annoyance, and be happy that your audiophile knowledge is certainly helping all of us to better enjoy our hobby and share some collective insight. That's what makes these forums so worthwhile. Happy Listening, and thanks for all your advice on this forum. |
It seems this was more a hypothetical exercise for personal enjoyment than a physical pursuit of audio equipment. I invest time and energy into answering posts to help someone if I'm able and find this annoying!!! |
Sonofjim, no question you are right about the primacy of "enjoying the music"; god knows there of plenty of folks with expensive gear that don't, either because their systems are not put together right, or they're to anxious about the equipment to relax and enjoy. Adam 18 is lucky to feel at peace with his system. But going from a 1 to a 2 or 3 in the Vandersteen does make the system better in a very real way. Better resolution and bass as you move up the line does lead to a greater potential connection to the musical message and performance. That is no guarantee that Adam 18 would "enjoy" his system any more, but he would have a "better" system in audio terms. |
Thank you, Sonofjim. Very nicely stated. Enjoying the music is what it's all about.
Take it easy...... |
You've just reached the same conclusion I most often do when considering an upgrade/change. When you sit down and listen and are still moved by your current set up why change? Anyone can spend a bunch of money and have a pretty system. A frugal hi-fi system that still delivers is a more admirable accomplishment in my opinion. That more expensive equipement will still be there when you're ready. Meanwhile, you're obviously doing something right so just enjoy. |
This has been a great exchange of ideas, and I really appreciate everyone's input. So, last night I spent around 3 hours in front of my current set-up, listening to all CD's......Rob Wasserman (both "Duets" and "Trios"), Sonny Rollins ("The Bridge"), and Jennifer Warnes ("Famous Blue Raincoat" re-issue.) The music sounded absolutely fantastic, and I was in "audio heaven." So, maybe I'll just leave well enough alone for now, and keep on enjoying my system just the way it is. Who knows ?? This crazy hobby of ours certainly is a lot of fun. Take care, ya'all, and Happy Listening. I'll keep you posted. |
My vote goes for the Wharfedale Opus2 M2 $2699 with the stands thru Wildwestelectronics,stunning standmount with floorstander bass. |
>>>Rufipennis I'm not knocking the 2Ce Sigs ll
No worries - I was only responding to Adam18 a couple of posts up. Not sure how you got the idea I thought you were "knocking the 2Ce Sigs ll". |
Rufipennis I'm not knocking the 2Ce Sigs ll some prefer them to the 3A Sigs especially with the 2Wq's. I've heard the 2's, 3's,Quatro Wood and 5A's in the same room with the same equipment at Optimal Enchantment in Santa Monica CA. It was months back that I listened to the 2Ce Sigs ll so I can't compare directly. My opinion there comes from Randy's responses to my questions and other clients questions and opinions as to the 2's & Quatro. The QW is a great speaker, one I could easily live with, it seems "quicker" than the 3's with 2Wq's and less full (one less 8" woofer ?) and it doesn't seem like a mini 5A. |
>>>how do the mid-range and tweeter drivers in the 2CE Sig./II compare to those in the 3A Sig. ?
The 2ce Sig IIs and 3A Sigs are *identical* in the mid-range and tweeter! With the latest iteration of the 2s, you only give up a bit of bass extension (and, possibly, definition) compared to the 3s. IMO, the 2 Sig IIs give you nearly all the performance of the 3s in a smaller (thus, more attractive) and more affordable package.
I own the 2 Sig IIs and have heard the 3A Sig driven with the same model amplifier, but in a different room - so I have direct experience to inform this opinion. I've also heard several mega-buck speakers (Wilson W/P 7, Thiel 7.2, Avalon Eclipse, Revel Studio, among others) and am here to tell you that - no, the Vandersteen is not better than these - but gets you nearly all the way there for a fraction of the price. If I ever upgrade ($$$ dependent), I'll be looking at stuff like the Quatro ($7-11 K), Thiel 3.7 ($12K), or lower-end Avalons (>$10 K). I'm convinced that that's the kind of money I'd need to spend in order to get a substantial sonic improvement! |
My understanding is that the 2Ce Sig ll are a leaner sound more in line with the wood Quatro. The 3A Sigs have a more Vandesteen house sound and align with the 5A's. I've auditioned the Quatro Wood and liked the 3A Sig 2Wq combo better! |
Gee whiz... get the 5A's and be done with it. |
Okay,...... so let's go with the theory that the midrange speaker is a key element to the "Vandersteen sound" in the models above the 1C. Now, how do the mid-range and tweeter drivers in the 2CE Sig./II compare to those in the 3A Sig. ? What do you guys think ? |
From a Minimalist Post Modern point of view they are very "cool", the 5A's aren't particularly exciting proportion wise and the Quatro Wood is bizzare looking. The more I live with the 3's and subs the more they grow on me, and now my wife likes the look!!! So my switching to 5A's would be for sonics not looks!!! |
I know 5A owners are likely to disagree, but I thought the old 3As with the two subs were not far behind the 5As of that time, the new 3As should be even better. John Rutan knows this gear a lot better than me, but I wager that if ergonomics is not a consideration, the 3A/2Wq would not be far behind the Qauttros or 5As and a great value. Of course the Q and 5 are a neater, more elegant, one-box solution. I thought having the two subs with the mains was cool in my dedicated listening room -- in a living room maybe a different matter. |
Pubul57 you hit on my dilemma, are the 5A's 40%( as some say) and $10,000 better? I've passed on two sets of 5's because of the newer tweeters in my 3A Sigs!! |
Very true, and on a related not the move from 1 to 2 is significantly bigger than 2 to 3, but worth it nonetheless, but that makes sense, there does come a point of diminishing returns, but as Samhar says, the midrange driver found in the 2 and up is a key to the Vandersteen sound as you move up the line compared with the 1. I think the steps up the Vandersteen are real and reflect the prices asked. What I'm not clear on is whether I would would prefer the 3a/dual 2Ws or the 5a - forgetting the ergonomics. There is something to be said of bass loading with the two subwoffers versus bass equalization electronics. Nice problem to have when you have to choose, but I suspect the current revision of the 3A with subs is a very viable option to the 5A. |
