Hdm,
I have a few chocolate and vanilla Hubbell 8300 that I'll let go for $16, and several orange Hospital (Isolated Ground) Hubbell 5352IG for $12. RSVP if you or anyone wants a couple. Cheers. Ernie |
Sometimes you have to pay a flat fee and then $/per pound in order to have items cryo'd. Check out details carefully!
Hdm is correct; " all cryo is not created equal". |
Not to be a killjoy, Jm88439, but a 20 amp hospital grade Hubbell is not going to be around $12, it's going to be closer to $20. On top of that, there is shipping both ways and the cost of handling, packing and boxing, as well as the cost of cryo. Secondly, all cryo is not created equal. Do some research. If you can get 3 cryoed outlets for $46, go ahead and do it. But don't be so sure you are getting the best performance out of your $46 for 3 cryoed outlets. Albert has gone out of his way to do a service here, and has also chosen (based on what I think is a pretty good set of ears) a somewhat unique hospital grade in that it is not plated (probably a good thing). If the cost is $30 to $40 per outlet, it is a deal, as the cryo being done to these is a good cryo and the outlet an excellent one to start with. And my opinion is that someone like Alan Kafton, who also subjects his receptacles to excellent cryo and then burns them in before shipping, is not charging an outrageous amount when he charges $60 or $65 per outlet. The Virtual Dynamics, cryoed Hubbell 5262 at $39 also looks interesting. But once again, I reiterate, all cryo is not created equally. |
As I understand it, it is not difficult or expensive to have anything cryoed. There is a company in the mid-west I believe, that does this for $10 per pound. Hubble hospital grade outlets can be had for around $12, maybe less. Two or three can't weigh more than a pound. Would the cost of three of your cryoed outlets be less than $46? If so, how much less? |
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In my experience I have found that if one side is used to the point of break in then the other side sounds good also. I don't understand why it works that way, but it does for me. |
Do you need to break in *each* of the two sockets in the duplex outlet, or will breaking in one also break in the other? Thanks. |
FINALLY got around to running a dedicated line from the circuit box to the now well broken in outlets. Omigosh what I difference! The realism is spooky.
I could go on and on, but I will just say that I never really realized just how good my system could sound until now. Thanks again Albert! |
Glad to see you guys report today! Thanks |
I had to reread my post from 11/26 which says, "have an electrician coming tomorrow". I just got the lines put in today. The first electrician cancelled on me a few times & then has his wife call me to say I should look for another electrician. He's semi-retired & I guess he had other things to do. I find another guy & set up an appt. My schedule fluctuates, so I worked the night before he was scheduled. Of course, I overslept & missed him. My dog didn't bark-I never heard him at the door. We reschedule, then he has some family problems. We reschedule again, then he has a wart dug out of his foot & can't make it. Well, I was lazy & it all worked out for me, meaning all this time I could have been burning in the outlets & didn't. A few weeks ago I installed one of them in the garage & ran a receiver & TV 24/7. I also ran some power tools from it like a shop vac, grinder, dremel and ran a 100' extension cord from it & used a halogen light under the house while I used my roto rooter drill to clean out the drain pipes. Yeah, that was fun! I think I got all the initial burning in done & swapped it earlier today for the other Porter Port. I already had a Virtual Dynamics cryo'd in the wall & put it on the front end & the Porter Port on my amp.
I only had time for about an hour listen today & started off with an MFSL of Aja. Not bad. Then I put on Norah Jones "Don't Know Why" and had a massive attack of chills! Whoa, it was great! I played a few more female vocals & could definitely hear more detail. Things like decay were extended, vocal reverb was more noticeable & bass was tighter. The overall presentation was really wonderful.
I'm going to leave the other Porter port in the garage for a few months & swap it out for the one already installed, to see if there's any difference. Once I've decided they're doing the same thing, I'll swap out the Virtual Dynamics. After I do that, then I'll swap them out for some regular outlets for a true comparison, as I made two changes today.
I'm sure that the sound will improve & todays test drive shows great things ahead. |
Okay Max, I heard your request for more of us to participate in our findings of the Porter Ports. I hope I am not premature, but nevertheless they're great.
I am comparing these with outlets from Tice Audio, which have been in my system for the last 6 years. Tice treats their outlets with high current,(TPT-Tice Power Technology)rather than our Cryo'd treated Hubbells with low temperture.
I Chose not to listen to the whole burn-in experience of the Porter Ports, so it was used elsewhere. I figured after a week or so it may be time to check these babies out. I knew as soon as I heard them, it was not burned in yet. It sounded very thin, cold and very clean, not bright, not warm, Clean.
I have been very satisfy with Tice Treated outlets for years. They have a good soundstage,layers of full warm mids and decent bass. The Porter Ports changed daily from a thin clean sound to a very focus soundstage, with layers of warm accurate mids, highs and a tight bass to boot. The detail and extention on vocals are amazing. The Tice and the Hubbell do share the same intimate soundstage. I understand the Hubbell 5362 is a tad more laid back than the 8300.
As I write this, of course I believe the outlet has stabilized and I it will remain in my system for years to come.
Thanks again Albert and you too Max! |
We just celebrated Xmas here (ok, New Year as well)... my father is always stir-crazy for projects around the house, so I knew I'd have my chance (I've been sitting on the outlets a while - I'm not stupid!) I had him install Porter Ports for my main rig and my bedroom rig.
First impressions in my main rig - detail retrieval improved, and a little bit sibilant. Burn-in will zero it in. I can already see the light at the end of this tunnel! Very pleased already.
Pops didn't understand quite exactly what we were doing or why we were doing it (a missing cover plate and a 20yr old brown "Eagle" outlet in one room helped him think there was some point to this), but he really did admire the fit and finish of the outlets.
Looking forward to years of better sound. Thanks all,
Mike |
Max, Thanks for your updates. My guess, is that many of us who bought these outlets have not installed them yet. I am currently using a Tice outlet, and will A/B it with the Cryo treated ones soon. I finally installed them in a wall next to my reptile tank. I chose this location for the outlet because there are lights, filters, and heaters that are constantly on. I have chose not to go through hearing the "Whole" break-in experience and will wait a couple of months. If you think the spike from the fridge is better let us know. |
December 31,02
I just have a bit to add now that the outlets are setteled in and sounding amazing. I did find that the outlets did change the tonal balance. They got rid of some colorations in the bass and mid bass as well as smoothing out everything else. I had set up the speakers prior to the outlets for this, unknown to me at the time,to compensate for this colored bass. Now that I have re-positioned the speakers for the new and improved tonal qualities I am getting smoother and more defined bass with greater drive and better pace. I find that I can also move the speakers farther apart and still retain the kind of focus and image that I was looking for. This opens up the soundstage to an even greater degree than ever before. Very Cool!
I have to say that this has been an unqualified sucess for me and has been a great learning experience. I have always been a firm beliver in set up and having the fundamentals of the system in place before you try to evaluate what you have as far as components. I do think that most audiophiles give up on speakers and electronics far before they know what they can sound like given the right set up. I will say that these duplexes are at the very least a great set up tool that anyone wanting to improve system their needs to install before they spend one more dime on anything else. I am planning future improvements in this area of AC power by upgrading my electrical lines and my other stock power cords and some sort of line filter that I can use these outlets in(perhaps a Chang or an Audio Magic). I am close to where I want to go with what I refered to as set up fundamentals. I have some reasonable isolation form vibration for my gear now and would like to work on my room a acoustics a bit before I ever consider buying a new pair of speakers, wires, or components. These outlets are a MUST have item for any serious listener.
Once again thanks to Albert,Lak,Brian,and the other Audiogon members for sharing in this experience and sharing their knowledge with me. I may never have stumbled on to these with out your help. I would like to ask once again for a few reports from the others of you who have installed these in their systems. I would like to find out what you think? |
I got my outlets today and, of course, could not wait a moment to get one going. I installed one in a non-dedicated circuit, though I do have an electrician friend scheduled to remedy THAT situation after the holidays. I plan to use this one from the "git go", and have the other outlet I bought "cooked" and then do a comparison later.
First impressions are outstanding. Tighter bass and, overall, a MUCH "cleaner" presentation. Upper end is really improved - for instance, the timbre of cymbals are standing out like never before. As Albert says, they will sound better out of the box than stock outlets, and this is true in spades. Look forward to the breakin and further improvements.
Know I won't have the stamina of Maxgain to post blow-by-blow results, but will try to keep others posted as to my experience.
THANKS AGAIN ALBERT!! |
Tweety, perhaps some changes take place after the cryo threatment even if the outlets are not installed? Just a thought. Perhaps letting them age a bit after the treatment before installation eases some of what I heard.Any cryo heads out there(no, not Ted Williams)that might know or have any opinion on this? I installed mine the day after they arrived, and as Albert mentioned they still felt cool when he got them. My syestm sounds great again today after letting the cables mellow out after too much time on the Cable Cooker. I just posted to let people know that I would no longer be able to make many judgments about what the outlets were up to after burning in the cables and throwing my scientific method out the window. I do know what they sounded like before I burned the wire and it was amazing. Now it perhaps sounds even better, I just don't know if it is the wire burn in or the outlet getting even better that has done it. At any rate I am pleased as hell that it sounds so life like and detailed! Tweety,very nice system by the way. |
Maxgain,
It just surprised me that I was not hearing the same things you were after installing the outlet. My system is as follows:
One Porter outlet
Shunyata Hydra with Mojave power cord plugged into Porter outlet
jp maximum gold power cords
Empirical audio Holophonic interconnects and Clairity 7 speaker cables by Empirical
Electrocompaniet Emc-1 c.d. player
Tom Evans "The Vibe" pre-amp
Herron Audio M-150 mono block amps
Avalon Arcus Speakers
Many compact discs
Thats it folks! |
Tweety, I am happy that you are having good luck and not hearing anything unpleasant. I, in no way, was trying to discourage people from installing and listening to the outlets, or scare them in any way! I don't feel that what I was reporting were PROBLEMS, only observations. I only reported what I heard. I HAVE enjoyed the experience. I have no way of knowing what you are using as you don't list your system. It may be helpful to others reading to know what your reference is. That way members with similar systems and tastes might be able to gather more from your experience. I hope that by listing my system it helps other readers to see if they are at all on the same page I am and not for any other pourpose.
I only hope that more of you didn't misinterpret my findings as some sort of negative thing. Just as anyone who tries to review a product or describe sound quality, I felt that I was making careful, and yes,a critical evaluation of the outlets and the break in process. This means reporting the good and the bad. The "PROBLEMS" that were very aparent with my gear may not be with other systems. I did say that no serious listener should be without them. I am not in a rush here, why should I be? If it only means letting the system rest for a few days that is no real hardship. When I turn it back on today I am confident that things will be back to sounding very good again. I just call it as I see it.
I am glad to hear others reporting in about their findings even if they don't feel they hear the same thing I do. I hope we hear from more of you. |
I just installed my outlet Thursday after having it for a month and reading Maxgains reporting. After all the trouble he had I was expecting my ears to bleed when I turned my stereo back on. It was terrific right from the start none of the PROBLEMS that Maxgain has reported, nothing but beautiful ,clear, correct,and enjoyable sound. The sound has NOT changed much in the last 5 days and might have even gotten better. Do not be afraid to install these outlets ,you will have a ear opening experience and one of the BIGGEST IMPROVEMENTS you can make for the money. Maxgain read Khaki8 12-22-02 post I could not have said it better myself good advice. Thank you Albert you made my future music listening more enjoyable it was a great hassle on your part , but you made allot of people happy. |
I am a few days away from introducing my Porter Ports. Would have interest in the experince of others with these, in addition to Maxgain (whose comments I have appreciated). Seems were quite a number of buyers but very much fewer reporting. |
Max,
Leave it alone and listen to music. You're driving yourself crazy! |
I think that even after running my outlets on the Audiodharma that their still may be some burn in ups and downs. Unfortunatly I contaminated my scientific method by adding another variable into the mix. While I still had the cooker on loan I wanted to quickly burn in my source IC's and all of my power cords. I may have overcooked the cables as it was on a day that I didn't have time to burn them for a few hours and then listen to see if they were "done". This would be hard to do at any rate and time consuming with the power cords as it takes an extended warm up for my system to stabalize after being shut off. I unplugged everything after listening to it Friday night(it sounded funky) to let everything come to some sort of state of equilibrium. I plugged everthing back in this morning and will wait for everthing to warm up.
I hope it sounds as good when I fire it back up as it did before I cooked the wire. I know that the cables will come back in time, it's just that I now don't know if I need to run everything or let it rest. Perhaps both. It could be that the outlets need juice running through them and the cables need the down time. I am a bit lost at the moment. Maybe I need the fans again? Maybe if I just let it play with the CD on repeat? It's like I came to a fork in the road and I went straight. I think given a bit of time it will just all of a sudden come back to life. The outlet I cooked for a friend and was installed Wedensday is still a bit up and down to and that was cooked for nearly 4 days and had no time on it to start with. Mine were cooked 3 days as they already had a couple of weeks on them and installed last Tuesday. I am getting e-mail reports from one other Agoner that used the Audiodharma that his outlets even after being installed longer than mine still seem to exibit some of the burn in ups and downs.
Patience is in order with this process. I know for a fact that I would have given up on a 7 month burn in LONG before that. Albert must be some sort of Saint. "St.Alberts Porter Ports", cryo treated by Trapist Monks and slowly burned in for your listening enjoyment in an audiophile hermitage located in the desert of Nevada. They also make beer, my favorite just so happens to be their " Cryo'd Porter", it's very smooth. |
Maxgain, I want to personally thank you for your reports. Such dedication, generosity, and detail goes beyond commendable.
Thank you!
Joe |
Drubin,
I think he has a booth at CES. |
I'm ready. You got a number for him, Khaki8? |
Max,
There is a doctor in Michigan who uses a 1 step program to put you out of your audio misery. Name's Kevorkian. Supposed to work real good. |
Drubin, the cable cooker is burn in morphine. It takes the pain away! It is fast and effective. The sound is even better than the day 14 posting and I am in sonic nervana.(it won't take long for me to find the need to improve the sound again soon in some way, the 12 step program is in order)
The outcome has exceded my expectations in every way. Not a single drawback to be found! |
How did the cable cooker thing work out with the outlets? |
Here is the conclusion of my findings about the "Porter Ports". This may sound as if I have been just awarded some coveted trophy. First I want to thank all of the AudioGon members that have made this possible. Albert, for all his efforts that were above and beyond what I would expect from someone that I have never even met. The others in this group who got together and made it happen by ordering enough of the outlets. I want to mention that I have gotten a lot of help and support from other members who have been generous enough to share their advice, experience, and one who even loaned me his cable cooker. I am impressed with the comunity effort that goes into AudioGon and why for me, it has been a rewarding and positive experience.
Now for the short part! I find these outlets to have improved EVERY aspect of the performance of my system and have NO doubt that it is a remarkable transformation that NO serious listener should be without!
I hope that others have as much fun with these as I have. I am through dominating this post. I ask that others of you share your findings here with the rest of the AudioGon members.
Thanks |
After consulting with Alan at Audiodharma, I have VERY carefuly made sure that the outlets are hooked to the cooker in a way that will not damage it. All systems are go, green light on the cooker. All I am missing is the little pop up thingie that they put into turkeys to tell you when the are done(Alan did give me some guidlines). I will report again after the outlets are golden brown and delicious and snug back in their home in the wall. |
Max......there is a safer way. I do not "wire" the outlets to the Cable Cooker's binding posts, but use purpose-built adaptors (like mini-power cables) to daisy-chain the Hubbell's. Additionally, I use the special power cable break-in adaptors I make (that are inserted *into* the binding posts), connecting them with stock power cords into the first and last receptacles, to effect AC receptacle conditioning. In this fashion, you would need 2 IEC power cable adaptors to make this work. This is inherently safer, because there are no loose wires or loose connections.
The Cable Cooker, if it "sees" a short from a loose or improperly terminated connection, will shut down (there is protection circuitry in the DC power supply). However, any misuse could possibly damage the internal circuitry. Please be VERY careful with your wiring and make sure all your connections are tight. |
Drubin, My understanding is that you just wire them up to the cooker as if you were going to burn in a speaker cable. I am going to connect three outlets at once and burn them in a daisy chain. I will know more about it when the cooker arrives tomorrow. This is the way I understand that it is done for the World Power cryo'd Hubbells who is also the manufacturer of the Audiodharma Cable Cooker. |
Magain, how are you hooking the outlets up to the Cooker? |
I have used ProGold as a contact enhancer and found that a metal cleaner followed by Deoxit (to remove all cleaner residue) and then a coating of ProGold works well. Another product I have used in the past as a cheap contact enhancer is RailZip, used by model railroaders and slotcar people on the track to improve contact from track piece to track piece. It is much cheaper than ProGold but does leave a bit of residue, but cleans off. |
Dill, I do plan to clean the outlets with ProGold before they go back in this time. I did some research at the Caig site and there seems to be no problem with it reacting poorly with the unplated copper. Just wanted to be sure before I put ANYTHING on them. Thanks for your suggestion. |
The outlets came out today in anticipation of the arrival of the cable cooker. The sound was a bit strange again yesterday. I had shut the fans off after tuesday as the noise was getting annoying and the wind tunnel testing had shown a high coefficient of drag for the couch in my listening room. I knew the cooker was on it's way. They did seem to regress a bit after the two days of no fans, even with some draw on them from my pre and sub woofer amp at idle.
The sound today of the exotic 85 cent Levitons is a bit of a let(outlet)down. The system was sounding better than it ever had before the installation of the Hubbells and I guess is back to what it was. It's hard to go back. It will only be a few days now and I will be back, and beyond to a level that I miss already. How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm........ |
Day fourteen.
This is the final daily episode and I bid you adieu as your humble narrator.
The sound today is much like yesterday, which is to say VERY good. The bass is filling out even more. The soundstage is see through to the darkest corners of the back. Small details in harmonic structure and texture are there like I have never heard before. I am hearing things on these recordings that were never there before. The ring of acoustic guitar strings and brushes on cymbls go on forever and fade into the edges of the stage. There seems to be an illuminated quality to the soundstage. It's like you get a mental picture of the spotlights on stage! Who the hell would need more that to channels! The sound has a flow out into the room that is intoxicating.
The only reservation I have yet and it may go away soon is that with some recordings(I now feel like I have never heard anything in my collection before and it may be the recordings)there still seems to be just a trace of edge and some sibilants(sp?). This may very well go away with even further burn in or it just may be that I am hearing my cables or something else in my system like never before. When a layer of grundge you didn't even know was there before is stripped away it is a very eye opening experience.
Soon I will have in my posession a cable cooker that was offered for my use by a very generous Agoner. I am going to run them on the cooker for at least 72 hours each. I want to take these as far as I can. I always like to wring the most out of a component( yes these are a MAJOR component!)
I love to push the bang for the buck envelope. Albert is right about these being a fantastic value! I will report again after I am finished sauteing these in the cable kitchen! Bon apitite. |
Day thirteen.
Thirteen IS a lucky number! Today it sounds amazing. Soundstage is vast! Detail is intricate and layered. The bass is much better, with much of the weight and power back with a smoother transition from the mid bass down. I have no complaints what so ever to report today. It sounds mui fabuloso!(not sure if that is spelled right? but you get the picture) |
Day twelve.
Today is much like yesterday. The bass is slightly firmer and deeper than even yesterday. I hope I am almost 1/2 way home. They are starting to sound great!
Btstrg, you lucky dog. A cable burner is a luxury item I don't have acess to. I am happy to hear your report and from what I am told only have another 2 weeks to a month to go. It seems like it has been longer than 12 days. I only plan to update daily for two more days, and after that only if things revert to back or when I hear a breakthrough or some reach some significant milestone.
The sad part is that when these fianaly settle in I will be jonesing for my next upgrade(power cords for the amp and pre-amp) fix. Perhaps a 12 step program is in order? |
listened to the outlets today for the first time and I must say I AM very impressed with the results. I have had them hooked up to my cable cooker for over a week (12) Day's and they sound great. The high's are extremely detailed and the bass seam's allot tighter and cleaner. Thanks Albert!!!! |
Day eleven.
Good news to report today. The bass is slowly developing back to its former self. The punch and weight are starting to return. I turned the sub back off once again this morning and it is almost back to the setting where it was prior to the installation of the outlets. Everything else sounds great today! There is an ease and pace that is unmistakeable. The detail is phenomenal without being bright or forward. There seems to be a sence of continousness(I think this may be something that HP,of The Absloute Sound, talked about at one point). By this, I mean that the space that instruments exist in is very distinct but the harmonics and ambient decay are able to flow freely and sort of intermingle and overlap in a way that they never have before. It fleshes out the soundstage and just makes it sound more life like. Sounds don't just die off, they float out and you can hear them seem to travel. In other words, WOW.
If it gets better now it will just be a bonus. When the bass fianlly gets back its former drive it will be complete!
Drubin, I would be concerned about running anything that gets hot 24/7. Don't want to burn the house down! That is a burn in you won't like! the fans seem to be doing the trick but it does take a while. Right now I feel like I am over the hump with the burn in. It may throw me a curve in a day or two, I will wait and see. So far it has been an adventure. But I am learning a lot in the process and I am sure it was a good move giving these a try! |
Dill thanks,
I did polish the copper romex ends with Simichrome(very similar to Flitz) and then cleaned that off with Cramolin and then wiped that off. I Didn't mess with the outlets other than wipeing them clean as I was not sure how the bare copper may react with something like ProGold in the long run. The outlets were quite free of any oxidation and I didn't want to create a big green mess that is that hard to get at and needs constant attention.The black stuff that comes off on the rag isn't all grundge. Some of what you see is part of a chemical reaction between the metal and the compound you are using. Flitz has a fine abrasive in it which like Simichrome removes a small amount of metal as you polish as well.
I am glad yours are sounding great already. Mine sounded great in so many ways right off, today was excelent other than what I mentioned before.
Drubin, I intended to burn mine in somewhere other than my system. I just decided I wanted to experience the changes as they took place. You could have the same experience that Dill is having and they sound great out of the box. I think that the worst may be over as they have sounded pretty smooth for a couple days in a row. I have to say the bass was a bit better today, as I had to back the sub level slightly off this afternoon from where I had it last night. |
Maxgain, remove your outlets and clean the copper wire ends with brasso, flitz or wenol. I cleaned the wire clamps inside the recepticle also, along with the blade contacts, use a toothpick and pipecleaners. You will be amazed at all the black grunge that will be removed. After using the metal cleaner, wipe down with alcohol or de-ox-it to remove all metal cleaner residue. This should keep you busy while you wait for the funds for your new speakers to come rolling in! I have had the Porter Plugs in for over a week now and have not experienced any of the symtoms you describe. The outlets sounded great from the get go .... |
Drubin, that's a good question and I don't understand enought about the process to explain it. The man with the answers (I think) would be Alan Kafton. You could email him from his website:http://www.audioexcellenceaz.com/index.html
Perhaps he would be willing to post here? |
No, your experience has made me afraid to install my receptacles. This kind of variability drives me crazy!
Lak, how would a cable cooker be effective with an outlet? Rather, how would it be more effective than plugging in a space heater or two for the same amount of time? |
Day ten.
Not much change from yesterday. Maybe this is a good sign. I listened quite a while last night and the good things are very good, space, the final frontier! The bass is still all wrong, down in level quite a bit,lacks slam and is still congested sounding. I cheated and turned the sub level up quite a bit, which helps some things and hinders in other areas. It makes some of the mid bass a bit thick and too prominent but fleshes out the low bass better but is now just fuller and funky. Give and take at this point. I may be 1/3 of the way home now.
I hate to dominate this thread. Anyone else out there with anything to add? |
Day nine.
Better again that yesterday, seems to be a 24 hour cycle between good and bad. It's still a bit weird.
What I am begining to understand is that if I listen at fairly moderate levels the sound is wonderful. When I try to get anywhere near a reference level(read quite loud)is when the sound gets weird. Must be that they just can't pass as much juice yet when the system wants it. The balance comes back into line at these more modest levels. This makes some sense to me. Make sense to the rest of you? |
Lak, I don't know anyone who owns one. If I had known where to lay my hands on one I probably would have gone that route to begin with. I love instant gratification! It has been educational to hear the changes so far. It's interesting and tells me without question that outlets have a dramatic effect on the sound. I am still up beat about what will happen in the long run, it's just the sonic grab bag from day to day may be starting to wear on me. It's all in the name of science, right? |
Find someone with a cable-cooker and use it for 72 hours or so! |
Here is a analogy for Albert, It sounds like a black and white infra red photo of the sound of my system, taken through a red filter, then the print was under developed! |
