Anyone hear the Class D Audio Mini GaN 5 amp yet?

I've put in an order as well to try these out. Won't get them for a couple of weeks but it's worth the investment to see, I guess. I'm happy with my system but the raves I'm reading about on Audiocircle where Catluck started a 22 page thread on these Class D amps would seem to make it worth a try. 

This morning I put my order in for a Mini GaN 5 . They are on Black Friday sale, $735......I nearly bought a Hypex NCore 252MP then I stumbled upon the whole GaN FET thing......Very interesting! I recently built an ICE 200wch amplifier from Parts Express as shown on Toid’s YouTube channel. A very inexpensive way to get your feet wet with class D. It’s a very nice amp, but has some shortcomings in the upper midrange and highs when driving my Magnepan LRS speakers. I’m hoping this more advanced technology will be an improvement.

My other equipment is Node2I into a Gustard X16 DAC, Schiit Freya tube preamp and Pass Labs First Watt F5v2 or VTA Tubes4HiFi ST120 tube amp.....LRS, KEF LS50 Metas and Pensil 10 speakers as the mood moves me....

All of this and more on my web page www.rvbprecision.com

Should be a fun trip!

What types of preamps is everyone using?

@celander 

What more can I say. The amps would go into protection mode for whatever reason. My systems detail is listed in my system page.

@catluck 

I'll cut to the chase: some of the most musical amps I've heard in over 40 years in this wonderful pursuit.

I have to say that for a 11 year Audiogon member with 100's of transactions to make his first post ever saying how good the amplifier is really a high endorsement.

 

 

@evank It might be helpful to describe your system in detail to understand the context in which you tried these amps.

@emailists 

I was hoping the problem could have been solved. Plenty of people are using these amps with no problems. I switched preamps and cables and still had a problem. My own amp back in the chain and no problems before or after. Let's hope they can figure it out. Bench testing would not work I don't think if it's intermittent. 

@soix Love the GaN Fets just couldn't give this one run through,sorry

@evank this is unfortunate to hear about.  I just suggested a friend look into this amp to hook up to his Sprout 2 to give more power and have better sound.  He’s looking into the latest Magnapans (around $1k- I forget which model)

I’m really interested in a 5 channel GAN amp for home theater if anyone knows of one (preferably reasonably priced)  ClassD said a while back they might make one, but haven’t seen any word about it.

 
 

I had a bad experience, 2 units bad. First one came on the 17th and kept going into protection mode. Replacement came on the 21st worked till the 23rd and same symptoms.I couldnt't even tell you how they sound

@maw8c Any update on your impressions of the amp?

I'll cut to the chase: some of the most musical amps I've heard in over 40 years in this wonderful pursuit.  My tube amps, which are high quality all, have been silent since I started using the Class D Audio MiniGan 5's (mono's and XLR).  You can follow the detailed thread on the Audio Circle Spatial Audio page.  But, with Spatial Audio Sapphire M3's, these MiniGans are absolutely astounding.  In example, I own 100 lb., 50 watt, Class A, Psvane 845 mono's (tubed with Linlai's Elite series tubes).  Some of the finest 845 amps ever.  For my musical taste, the MiniGans, weighing 5 lbs., 300 watts, out-perform the Psvanes.   Upstairs, on Merlins, the MiniGans, again, to my musical taste, out-perform Manley Neo-Classic 300B's, Granite Audio 864 SR's,  Hartung OTL's (all mono's). Extraordinary development. Revolution?  Seems to me....

@maw8c Congrats! Once the amp is fully burned in and you’re acclimated to it you might consider talking to Ric Schultz at Electronic Visionary Systems about mods he’s developed for your amp. He upgrades/reworks key parts that can bring these amps to an even higher level of performance for relatively small cost for the improvement you get. There’s more info on his website if you might be interested at some point. I was seriously considering the GaN5 as well as I’m sure once modded it could be a pretty special amp on the relative cheap, but I decided to have my McCormack amp upgraded instead and although I know it’ll be a great amp I still wonder if I made the right choice.  Anyway, enjoy the new amp and if you would please report back with your thoughts as the amp settles in. 

I'm rather surprised and a bit confused.  I have an Esoteric F-05 driving Egglestonworks 9se speakers, Pontus II dac, Spacedeck table with a high end Van Den Hul cartridge.

I had heard some mid range clang if you will at moderate to high volumes for which I had to adjust tone controls on the Esoteric quite dramatically.  I became concerned maybe they weren't getting enough wattage from the Esoteric.

I wanted to see what some additional wattage would do, and wanted to do it as an experiment as cheaply as possible.

In my system after 1 day of break in the soundstage expanded (although vocals rather fixed centrally, depth variable was impressive), clarity improved, and for what it's worth stopped needing to use my tone controls.  Maybe a touch thinner but all other parameters improved.  I really couldn't believe my ears so had multiple friends with great ears listened.  The all voted for the 5.  Guess I'll keep it.  Dang. 

 

Checked out that review thread. Not a place I’ll be frequenting. Ugh!

With a few more evenings of listening time, a few more observations. Bass and dynamics are really superb. Both those elements got slightly better with playing time. I find this amp quite reveling and true to recording quality.

What I find strange is that lead voice tracks often appear too far back in the sound stage and certain instruments like a piano, lack a bit of the weight expected from a good class A/B SS amp.

I moved the gain from mid to low with no discernable difference is sound quality. Nothing that cranking up the volume could not address. No problems whatsoever mechanically (on/off, warm-up time, disconnecting and reconnecting cables, etc.).

This amp does a lot of thing really well. Nipping at the heals of good Class A/B. I would not say it surpasses it.  But does kick the crap out of previous Class D I’ve used.

For you measurement folks, looks like ASR just gave this amp a bad review:

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/premium-audio-mini-gan-5-review-stereo-amplif...

Greetings all. Just getting back into the audio game after a 9 year absence.

Just got one in today and after only about 2.5 hours of playing I’m very impressed. Best Class D I’ve ever heard and I’ve had the best the like of Bel Canto and Wyred 4 Sound had to offer. No comparison IMHO.

The midrange is simply stunning for Class D. Midrange weight, tonality and overall soundstage stand out so far. Base is tight with the high end smooth and refined as others have stated.

We’ll see what happens after about 100 hours of break-in time on it. Its a keeper for sure.

Great info.  Thanks!  I just posted the same thought of pairing the GaN 5 with a tubed pre on my other thread on this topic — very intriguing. 

I leant one of the GaN 5 amps to a friend who has a SS amp MSRP in the $5,000 range, and who also has had class D amps in his system. He liked the GaN 5 amp a lot, not as much as his SS amp but said the GaN 5 bass and dynamics were excellent, grain free highs. A winner compared to the other class D amps he's had. He thought that if he had a tube preamp it might be a great combination but in his system the GaN 5 was just a tad "clean n lean" compared to his SS amp.

Why don’t you just take the damn 2A3 amp out of the system and see how the GaN 5 sounds running your speakers full range or even just running from 800Hz and up? Would be useful info.

'Cause I'd have to build a passive crossover (I use an active XO).

And how these amps do playing above 800 Hz I have no idea.

@sebrof — Why don’t you just take the damn 2A3 amp out of the system and see how the GaN 5 sounds running your speakers full range or even just running from 800Hz and up? Would be useful info.

I received the Mini Gan 5 amps 2 days ago and I’ve got some listening in.

After thinking about it I realize that I may not be a good reference for these amps for 2 reasons: 1. I am using them only below 800 Hz (I have a 2A3 amp for the highs) and 2. I have no other reference for any other amplifier in this system except for a pair of Quicksilver M-60 PPP Kt-88 monoblocks that I’ve been running for years.

But having said that… 

These guys are no joke. I have lots more listening to do but at this point I believe they sound better than the tube amps and I have no desire to swap back. The bass is much cleaner and tighter as I suppose would be expected, but it’s not lean IMO. Sound is nice and full but not tubby which the tube amps could be on certain songs at certain (higher) volume. I don’t hear any of the negatives associated with Class D amps but no way for me to tell if I would hear that with any other Si class D amp, or a class A/B amp for that matter.

 As is for all things of this nature time will tell, I may completely change my mind after some more listening. And how these amps do playing above 800 Hz I have no idea. But for $750 I’m impressed, and a bit surprised.

I saw the Orchard amps but they are out of stock.

sebrof


Ok so your only going to use one channel of each amp, and leave the other unused??

If so you could go these true mono’s for the same price as two of those
https://orchardaudio.com/mono
Cheers George

Thanks George, I don't believe they can be bridged and I don't plan to. Each GaN amp will be driving a 16-ohm Altec 416 (95 db? 98 db?) so no need for more power.
I did check with the manufacturer and was told no issue with running just one channel.

I have two on order (to use as monoblocks)

Did you check with the manufacturer to see if they can be bridged into monoblocks??? As many can’t, and will blow up on turn on.

Also "if" they can be bridged, the wattage yes will be higher, but all the other parameters that make for a good sounding amp goes down when stereo amps are bridged, and they actually sound worse just louder.

Cheers George

I have two on order (to use as monoblocks), should be here Tuesday. I use PP KT-88 amps now to drive Altec 416s in a DIY box from 800 Hz down and I'm curious how these will sound.

So anyone heard the mini Gan 5 yet?

Gallium Tech will shrink your EV Charger and Increase Range

And no doubt make it sound better too. 

FYI: The miniGan $699 expired on 6/30, now $749

I read an interesting GaN article in the August issue of MotorTrend: Gallium Tech will shrink your EV Charger and Increase Range

@soix 
Apologies - just realize your question focused on a different amp. Product names seem pretty close.
Still, The Audion, a mini amp :-), is worth a listening.

Re: AGD Class-D

Is it a coincidence that when you put transistors in a glass tube that looks like a electron tube that suddenly the sound is called SET like? As opposed to your typical Spartan Class D amp box that no SET fan in their right mind would ever own, eh?

Yeah that glass tube thing was very very questionable thing to do, but then to the gullible it "could" say it will sound better. Even the designer said it was a bit of a joke when he was interviewed way back on it.

But the worst part of it is that they use the 6550 tube push pin’s and tube socket as the contact making for input, output, power etc, which is just about the worst thing you could do re a good connection for power transferring.
(suppose it will ensure future servicing returns when the contact/s will fail)

https://www.stereophile.com/images/020720-Tube-600.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQdLm_dq9LsPFMm8BgkCfRfsmAoS1Z0MaZOv9dRXSVk_9Q7...

Cheers George

I wouldn’t put it that way. I understand the specific design objective was to create a GaN amp which delivers SET-like harmonics (without paying the price of high noise floor and limited dynamics). In my view this has been completely achieved.
The design of the “chip in a tube” amp board may be a matter of taste. But the workmanship and appearance of the unit are quite beautiful.

Is it a coincidence that when you put transistors in a glass tube that looks like a electron tube that suddenly the sound is called SET like? As opposed to your typical Spartan Class D amp box that no SET fan in their right mind would ever own, eh?

@soix 
I have the Audion now for two weeks,
They are driving DC10/Viking Berlin’s (MK II).
Very impressed and will definitely keep them.
I had listened to them at Ocean Way Audio in LA and was simply stunned of what the combination of an ultra low noise floor (-130 dB), very low distortion and a SET like signature of harmonics (albeit at very low levels) can do. These amps are a discrete innovation. Specifically, never have I heard mass strings and large choirs so resolved, detailed and natural.
Also the detail and texture at very low volume are simply stunning.
Definitely try them out!

Wow, what a bunch of crap, all this "sounds better" subjective bs. There is no arguing subjective valuations of quality-it's all personal opinion, and there is no right or wrong, no better or best. If you want to debate amps or anything else on their merits, the only metric that means anything concrete is objective performance. Bruno has told me he has looked at GaN devices and hasn't found any reason to use them. His purifi amps already perform as close to a wire with gain as one can find. The fact that people are implementing tube buffers, etc., speaks to the fact that everyone has their own personal preferences. What's the best flavor of ice cream? Who is the most beautiful woman? All that matters is what YOU like, and all this wasted time and debate trying to find some consensus is a lot of noise about nothing. The only way to know if you will like something is to try it for yourself- the opinions of others are meaningless.

When it comes to a straight wire with gain there is an end. It is the point where you can no longer tell the difference when there is an improvement. It is hard to swallow for audiophiles but we are effectively there.

Rrrriiiiiiight.  Anyway...thanks for your thoughts Ric.  Makes sense. 

If Bruno put GaNs in the Purifi, then we would know exactly whatGaNs bring to the table.

THAT is exactly what I was wondering/hoping for.  Seems a little unlikely near term given your take on Bruno’s thoughts on GaNs, but guess we’ll just have to wait and see how that plays out.  Should be interesting to say the least.

thyname

@cleeds : it’s our old friend --- he is back. Audio2Design, AtDavid, DanNad, etc. etc. Another fake account

Thanks, @thyname. It looks like you’re correct! The guy has a problem.

As I say over and over again.....EVERYTHING makes a difference. All implementations of the Purifi modules (stock or modified) will sound different. Every GaN based amp will sound different. The only way to know anything about sound is to A/B. The baby modded Purifi and the modded IceEdge are great sounding amps that can be listened to for years......but are they as good as this inexpensive GaN amp.....without or with mods? NO ONE knows (yet). Then there are the new GaN amps coming from LSA, Wyred for Sound and Orchard (all around $3K....and some of these might be moddable for even better sound).....then there are the already available $1500 mono blocks GAN amps from Orchard.....then there will be more.....and more and more and more and more and more and more.....forevermore...he he. This is why I tell people not to spend a lot of money now as this GaN thing is just starting. Class D will slowly take over the whole audio game. The potential is great.

Is GaN just a new buzzword or does it really help the sound? It makes sense that it would improve the sound.....but everything has to be done correctly. And there is no amp on the planet that has everything done to the nth degree........none. Bruno thinks that GaNs are not needed. Is he correct? Has he actually tested GaNs and A/Bed with Mosfets (both circuits tweaked to the max, of course)? I doubt it.

If Bruno put GaNs in the Purifi, then we would know exactly what GaNs bring to the table.  The best implementation of the Purifi will never happen.....same with GaN based amps.  For those that don't know, GaN is just a faster version of a mosfet.  It is the output device in a class D amp. What is the "best" implementation of a class A/B amp?  It does not exist......an ever changing and evolving reference (just like our soul).  No end to audio.

You have to do everything to the nth degree and most engineers don't have all the marbles....all are playing with limitations.  The game is ever changing.....enjoy the ride. Essence is always the same.....and everyone’s essence is Love and Joy. Blessings to all.

Yeah, agreed (BTW Ric, still have your wonderful original Millennium DAC). Back before I had enough experience with various gear to know how to listen, what to listen for, and my own tastes/biases I used to overweight the importance of measurements too. I thought my original post as written would dissuade the lesser noob numbers crowd from polluting the discussion, but they’re a pervasive lot and obviously tough to shake. Oh well, maybe a topic for another day.

While we’re here though Ric, any general thoughts on GaN vs. Purify amps at this stage? My guess is, as with Class A vs. A/B amps (and pretty much everything in audio), there are trade offs and overall implementation matters as much or more than anything else, but I’d be interested in your thoughts and maybe which may have more potential for whatever reason(s). I know you’ve got some interesting mods for the VTV amps that are also high on my radar, which is actually one of the reasons I started this thread in the first place. Maybe we can salvage something useful outta this thing after all. 🤞

cleeds3,884 posts07-08-2021 11:57amdoogiehowser

I would be careful about what groups I am disparaging.

What does that mean? Is that a threat?

@cleeds : it's our old friend --- he is back. Audio2Design, AtDavid, DanNad, etc. etc. Another fake account

What a bunch of drama kings......he he.   All these words and nothing said.  I suggest soix delete the thread and start another one with the same tile in a few weeks......maybe by then someone will have actually heard the amp and have something REAL to say.

Well, it’s apparent doogie’s left the reservation — no idea what he’s talking about and certainly not pertinent to the intended discussion soooooo...back to our regularly-scheduled program, please. 

doogiehowser

I would be careful about what groups I am disparaging.

What does that mean? Is that a threat?

Let attitude more reading would be your friend considering the ASR link had listening impressions.

Ha!  Going to ASR for listening impressions is like going to The Absolute Sound for rigorous reviews and objective measurements.  No bueno.