Atlantic City casinos closing...

When reading this thread, I was initially unaware of the starting date, way back in 2014. Maybe some things never change. I would like to offer my observation as to who we are financially, and where we end up. In short, I am a bit above the level that my fathers' income was. I notice that my living tends to stay at the same level due to savings, spending habits, lack of debt and so forth. In spite of most of my life experiences, everything has remained essentially the same in a financial sense for me. I am also aware that it would take only one accident, one medical situation, one fire, to change all of that. Given enough time, I wonder if things would ever buoy out to normal after that. 

Ah, memories of the "diving" horse at the Steel Pier not to mention all the top acts of those yonder years including to your's Evelyn:" the Temptations, Four Tops and Supremes in their hey day. 

zd542 ...

Do you reside in the Southern California area? If so, I think you and I  could become good friends. I like your style.

Frank

Planning a trip to Atlantic City in two days .. 

If you guys want to see how insurance companies really abuse people, you need to look at how they pay claims. Whatever injustices there are in calculating premiums, they pale in comparison to what they do when a policy holder has a legit claim. Its unreal. I have no idea how they get away with paying out such low amounts. And they do it to everyone, not just the poor.

So true!

Come to coastal NJ/NY and meet with people who were "touched" by Sandy. If you met with 100 people maybe 5 would be OK with their insurance settlement. The remaining 95 will have the same story of receiving about 1/3 of what the claim should have been. We were "touched" and our claim was about $42,000, we received $11,400! Barely enough to replace our furnace and hot water heater.
Oh and our flood insurance rate went up 40%!

Not to get too far off point here and certainly not to defend Insurance Companies, I'd be near the bottom of that list, but what about the insurance fraudsters ZD? Several years back my nephew who was 16 years old at the time on a learner's permit with my wife present was 2 cars back of a stop light and decided to switch in the far left lane and scraped the bumper of the commercial pickup truck in front of him. Long story short the guy in the truck feigned a "back injury", sued me for the limits of my liability policy which was well over 100k, sat in the insurance companies office with his attorney present I would add, and talked with his wife about the car he was going to get right with his money in front of my wife and myself while we waited to give our depositions. This is no joke, it really happened.

A friends daughter, who years back was a claims adjuster for a large auto Insurance Company, (go Flo) told me that well over 70% of the claims she dealt with were to varying degrees fraudlent. So it wouldn't surprise me that insurance companies take the low road as many of those they insure. A very sad testimony indeed.

Footnote to the story, they ended up settling for 40K for absolutely nothing, no damage to the truck whatsoever while my car had a scrape on the side totalling 1.5K of damage.

"Quite a while ago there was a congressman from California who lived either in Bel Air or Beverly Hills and he came right out and said that if you based rates on ones driving record (speeding and accidents) and then factored in the cost of repairs (upscale neighborhoods have upscale cars) then his constituents would end up paying a hell of a lot more for their insurance (their fare share) and he would have none of that."

That is how they do it. Tickets and accidents effect premiums in extreme amounts. There's no better example than myself. When I was 18 driving around with a bunch of moving violations and accident on my record, the lowest quote I got for insurance on an $18,000 car was $11,000 for 6 months. ($11,000 is not a typo). A few years later, when everything came off my license, I paid $1200 on a $30,000 car for 6 months. To be fair, though, my $11,000 quote was well earned.

If you guys want to see how insurance companies really abuse people, you need to look at how they pay claims. Whatever injustices there are in calculating premiums, they pale in comparison to what they do when a policy holder has a legit claim. Its unreal. I have no idea how they get away with paying out such low amounts. And they do it to everyone, not just the poor.

Quite a while ago there was a congressman from California who lived either in Bel Air or Beverly Hills and he came right out and said that if you based rates on ones driving record (speeding and accidents) and then factored in the cost of repairs (upscale neighborhoods have upscale cars) then his constituents would end up paying a hell of a lot more for their insurance (their fare share) and he would have none of that.

Just another example of 'socialize the costs and privatize the profits'.

All the best,
Nonoise

very well noted for wealthy zip codes insurance is SUBSTANTIALLY lower. the reasons stated due to the number of accidents, but they're mostly wrong wrong. it's bs.
when i was poor, i knew and many more did how to void paying high insurance by disguising address to the wealthier areas.
it's natural: action - reaction, no snit!

GO ASAP gamble all your cash!!!!!

"My new position pays less then my last one and I am forced to work the grave yard shift but that's life. Not the life I had hoped for in this stage of the game but at least I can start getting out of debt.
I do not resent success and the pleasure it brings, I like my toys like most of us but it shouldn't be so god damned hard."

One thing to keep in mind is that its much easier to get a job when you already have one. Most employers factor in if you are currently working. Use your new job to find a better one.

Thank you for your reply, Dreadhead. You deserve a lot of credit for putting your head down, and trying to put things back on track.

The Quality Assurance background provides you with some great experience. Have you considered Six Sigma or software QA? A person like you could make the transition into one of those hot and well-compensated areas (hopefully) without a lot of drama.

Believe it or not, besides dating a woman in Freehold back aways, our experiences sound more similar than different. I worked as a material scientist / chemist in manufacturing. As you mentioned, it hasn't gone well for our nation in that regard. I'll spare everyone the details, but around Y2K, I saw the handwriting on the wall, and luckily made the jump to something that's held up better than that has. I say luckily because my company went under 1.5 years after I left, whereas I fortunately fell into a program that allowed me to retrain and retool.

Hang in there, keep plugging, and continued best of luck!

The taxpayers are taking a huge hit indeed. About 90% of funding for these mills comes from the government (us taxpayers). They help bundle and source contributions for politicians who become indebted (just like the world's oldest profession) so laws, regulations and investigations become sort of lax, to put it mildly.

University of Phoenix, Kaplan, Everest, Westech, Potomac, Anthem, Westwood, ATI, ITT, Argosy, Bennett, Corinthian, Ashford, DeVry, heck even Harvard (online) are just some of the ones under investigation.

As of now, student debt surpasses credit card debt (somewhere over $1.3 trillion dollars) and efforts to get student loan rates close to the borrowing rate (less than 1%) have been rebuffed by those very same politicians who rely on those sacred institutions to help finance their personal fortunes. Call me cynical, but I see no reason why the government should make billions on student loan interest payments on the backs of students.

Right now, those colleges are doing their best to head off legislation that ties their right to do business to their job placement ability. A small price to pay for what they boast about but fail to do.

All of this is just another con in a long line of cons (remember Enron?) Instead of using taxpayer money to front these thieves, why not use it where it already had proven to work: community colleges?

Our public schools are next. Imagine using taxpayer money to enrich owners of charter schools who perform no better than public schools. Anyone here ready to pony up $10,000 to $30,000 a semester just to see your kid through Jr. and Sr. High? Trust me when I say they've been eyeing this for a long, long time.

All the best,
Nonoise

"I once worked with a man who was born into a wealthy family and he married a daughter of one of the wealthiest and most influential business leaders in our part of the country. He quit working in the business we were in at the time and devoted himself full time to managing his wife's money right at the time the stock market was entering a prolonged bull run (he had training as a broker.) A monkey throwing darts at the financial page NASDAQ listings could make winning decisions in that environment. One day years later when our paths crossed again he remarked with great pride at how well he'd done and how hard he'd worked. When I mentioned that he might take solace in his good fortune in life, he became angry and vehemently denied that family, luck of birth, and good fortune played any role in his lot in life."

Are you still in contact with that guy? I'd really like to talk to him and see how he did it. lol. I don't know if you've ever tried to trade like that for a living, but I can tell you its not easy. He could have gotten lucky, but its far more likely he worked very hard.

"When I mentioned that he might take solace in his good fortune in life, he became angry and vehemently denied that family, luck of birth, and good fortune played any role in his lot in life. I just let it go because you're obviously not going to change someone's world view in an argument like that."

I do understand what you are trying to say in all this, but have another look at the last sentence. How do you know you were right to begin with? Yes, he could have gotten lucky or he could have worked very hard, who knows? I know you weren't trying to offend the guy but when you say: "I just let it go because you're obviously not going to change someone's world view in an argument like that.", I can see where he may have gotten mad. How would you react if he tried to change your world view? You would probably say something like what he said to you.

"I do completely agree with you about "for profit" universities and it will be interesting to see if we can come up with a way to rein in their predatory practices."

I just wanted to clarify what type of school I was talking about. I'm not against a college just because it's for profit. I went to a regular 4 year college that was in business to make a profit. Many people go to schools like that and they're not being ripped off. The schools I'm talking about are called loan mills. These type of schools target people that don't have any type of education above high school. The tuition is based solely on the maximum amount of loans and grants that are available to your average person. They promise the students high paying jobs after graduation, but in the end, its all a bunch of crap. If you are looking for a good example of how the poor are being taken advantage of, this is it. These schools are not only loading people up with debt that they probably will never be able to repay, but the tax payers are taking a huge hit, as well.

Zd542, It is all too easy to feel the poor are doomed when we look at the numbers. The older I've gotten, the more I think we all give ourselves too much credit for our accomplishments in life. By that I mean that the vast majority of humans just live out their lives in the same patterns they were taught and exposed to in their formative years. Yes, I went to college, made good grades, worked hard at jobs that weren't ideal when I was younger, and worked my way up the ladder of prosperity as I got older. However, I had a road map of how to do it by cultural example and I'm an Anglo white male that's part of a group with a lot of advantages built in by luck of birth.

I once worked with a man who was born into a wealthy family and he married a daughter of one of the wealthiest and most influential business leaders in our part of the country. He quit working in the business we were in at the time and devoted himself full time to managing his wife's money right at the time the stock market was entering a prolonged bull run (he had training as a broker.) A monkey throwing darts at the financial page NASDAQ listings could make winning decisions in that environment. One day years later when our paths crossed again he remarked with great pride at how well he'd done and how hard he'd worked. When I mentioned that he might take solace in his good fortune in life, he became angry and vehemently denied that family, luck of birth, and good fortune played any role in his lot in life. I just let it go because you're obviously not going to change someone's world view in an argument like that. While an extreme example, I think that type of thinking is very prevalent among those who've done well in the world.

There are definitely those who rise above their lot in life and become successful, but our society is in a downward spiral because so few can or make the effort to do so.

I do completely agree with you about "for profit" universities and it will be interesting to see if we can come up with a way to rein in their predatory practices.

Zd542, thanks for that last sentence: I needed to laugh.

All the best,
Nonoise

Photon46,

Reading through your last post, I wont say I agree with every single word, but there's very little I disagree with. I think found disagreement when some of the other posts portrayed an overly dismal situation for the poor. Sort of like, poor people are doomed and there is very little they can do about it. I know they didn't mean that literally, but I think the picture was a little too dark. Also, you do a better job of classifying the different types of poor people. Someone born into poverty and not receiving a proper upbringing by their parents, will probably be at more of a disadvantage than someone like me, who was only poor for a short while.

"That said, does that mean that we should abandon all hope and stop trying to save the few that CAN rise above their poor circumstances of birth?"

I never said that. But I do feel that you can help too much.

"Much of my work is at the other side of the educational spectrum with college students. Believe me, I see plenty of students who are the first ones in their families to go to college and they ARE rising above it all and they will stop perpetuating their family's cycle of poverty. Without the programs you say "aren't working," there would be many thousands of college students without the opportunity to change their lives. No doubt you are correct that we spend billions on social programs with inadequate outcomes. "

Just to clarify, I wasn't talking about college loans and grants. I should have been more clear. Loans for school are great programs. I put myself through school with a Stafford loan. The only big problem I see with loans is not the students, but the schools themselves. All these new vocational type schools popping up with ultra high tuition costs, are doing a lot of damage. 6 month programs that cost about 15k and credits that don't transfer.

"07-23-14: Nonoise
It's nice to see a civil discussion here. There is, however, one meme that I have to slay and that is the "billions" we spend on the poor. It sounds like a lot but compared to what?"

You're absolutely right. We're spending trillions in other areas. Personally, though, I really don't like doing these type of comparative analyses. Each problem needs to be dealt with, not in comparison with different issues, but on their own merits. If we have to look at social programs in billions, then that's what it is. If defense spending is in trillions, then we have to look at it on that scale. Diverting money from one problem to the other won't fix anything. Good planning and oversight (if that's even possible) are how to deal with these problems.

"Are you sure you're pissed off at the right people?"

I find that people are usually more pissed off at me, as opposed to me being pissed at them. I have no idea why.

It's nice to see a civil discussion here. There is, however, one meme that I have to slay and that is the "billions" we spend on the poor. It sounds like a lot but compared to what?

Someone, somewhere went and did the math for an average person who made $50,000/year and what the breakdown on taxes are. I think most will be in for a bit of shock, but here goes:

$347 a year for defense
$3.98 a year for disaster relief (FEMA)
$22.98 a year for unemployment insurance
$36.82 a year for SNAP (food stamps)-about a dime a day
$6.96 a year for welfare
$43.78 a year for retirement & disability to gov. workers (civilian & military)
$235.81 a year for Medicare
$4,000 a year for corporate subsidies.
Are you sure you're pissed off at the right people?

All the best,
Nonoise

Zd542, There's something I'd like to point out with regard to your blaming the poor for being poor as a result of bad decision making and not taking enough personal responsibility. Most of us contributing to this thread probably made some bone headed decisions when young but we had an internal moral compass and personal examples of what it took to succeed to guide us. Our parents, teachers, and community imbued those values in us from the time we were young. Those examples helped guide us as we grew up and gained life experience. Most of the poor never gain the advantage of positive examples and life lessons because their of crappy luck at birth.

My wife was an elementary school teacher for 39 years and believe me, she saw the full gamut of parenting and child rearing skills in our society. We are not born with the innate inborn skills needed to help us negotiate the social and financial minefields that proliferate in our society. If a kid grows up with no positive role models and no direct familial/societal pressures to succeed and evolve upwardly, no amount of government largess or standardized school testing and pressure is going to change the life trajectories of most people. That said, does that mean that we should abandon all hope and stop trying to save the few that CAN rise above their poor circumstances of birth?

Much of my work is at the other side of the educational spectrum with college students. Believe me, I see plenty of students who are the first ones in their families to go to college and they ARE rising above it all and they will stop perpetuating their family's cycle of poverty. Without the programs you say "aren't working," there would be many thousands of college students without the opportunity to change their lives. No doubt you are correct that we spend billions on social programs with inadequate outcomes. However, if we abandon efforts to help the poor and wash our hands of responsibility for them, we'll have a society with attributes of those in South and Central America eventually. Those with good jobs and adequate livelihood will live in armed compounds with private security and the rest will live in a world like the favelas of Rio and Sao Paulo.

What's the answer to our societal problems and how do we improve outcomes of the programs we spend billions on? I wish I knew. I only know both sides of the political spectrum in the US seem like the blind men feeling one part of the elephant and thinking they have the whole picture.

With a level playing field, one can have just as good a chance to make it as anyone else. Show me that level playing field. It's never existed and probably never will.

Anyone born into poverty has a greater than 60% chance of staying there, despite attempts to raise oneself. Anyone born into wealth has a better than 60% chance of staying there despite any self destructive attempts to ruin that chance.

What you're born into goes a long way to how you're perceived and accepted. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule but ....

Our economy can turn around rather quickly making this discussion moot as our problems are one of policy and not the result of natural events.

Were it only so.

All the best,
Nonoise

Trelja,
I am in Central N.J.
I grew up in Freehold.
I lived the life Springsteen sang about in his song "My Hometown".
I started in manufacturing in 1981 as a Quality Control Inspector. It took 12 more years until the plant closed. I was at my next position for another 12 years until that company was sold. Since then I have been laid off numerous times due to layoffs, employee reductions in the work force and jobs being sent overseas.
The economy has not been kind to the manufacturing industry in America.
I am a Quality Assurance Inspector by trade, this is what I do. Tomorrow is my 58th birthday and I've had some of the hardest times in my life for last 16 months. Is this all my fault? Younger untrained people willing to work for much less then me, competition from other people in the same boat as me.
My new position pays less then my last one and I am forced to work the grave yard shift but that's life. Not the life I had hoped for in this stage of the game but at least I can start getting out of debt.
I do not resent success and the pleasure it brings, I like my toys like most of us but it shouldn't be so god damned hard.

"When I asked my insurance agent why mine was so much lower, it was due to my high credit rating."

He was just saying that because it was the first thing he thought of. There's so many factors that go into a decision like that, he can't possibly know them all right off the top of his head. Remember, people that sell insurance are still sales people. Most sales people will lie for any number of reasons. Its unfortunate, but that's how it works.

The poor may not pay higher taxes percentage wise, but interest rates depend on how good a persons credit score is. So is the rate of auto ins. 5 years ago I checked ins. rates for pilot escorts and it averaged about 3800.00 per year. Mine would have been 1965.00 (if I wanted the job) When I asked my insurance agent why mine was so much lower, it was due to my high credit rating. Wish I could buy highend equipment (for cash) because of that.

"07-23-14: Onhwy61

Selecting only ideas and facts that just supports your argument just so you can win, does no one any good.

But you just did that."

I agree. You did one side, I did the other.

"Being poor usually means you live in a poor neighborhood. Your zip code heavily influences your credit and insurance rates."

They can't factor your zip code in for credit. Its not allowed, check it if you don't believe me. For some types of insurance, they can. Whether or not the zip heavily determines your rate has very little to do with income. For example, if you live in an area that has very bad wheather, yes, you can have high HO rates. But that has nothing to do with your income, everyone pays high rates.

"As a percentage of their income, poor people pay higher taxes (including sales taxes, gas surcharges, taxes on utilities, etc) than poor people."

Maybe. You have to take that on a case by case basis. Don't forget everyone has to pay those taxes. Also, don't forget to factor in poor people are usually exempt from most, if not all income tax. (Yes, I know they're exempt because they're poor, but it still helps. That's why its done.)

" And as far as not committing crimes and having a good work ethic, the NYPD walked up to a man in broad daylight and choked him to death for apparently having those two qualities."

I don't mind having a debate, but that statement really has no place in this discussion. You're singling out one extreme exception, and when you really look at the incident, the Cop was 100% at fault, regardless of whatever his excuse was. You're smarter than that.

" Poor people have little say in what activities are considered crimes and that is a large part of the reason why jails are filled with poor people."

I think we are going to have to disagree on that one. Personally, I feel its an insult to law abiding poor people to make a statement like that. (I know you didn't mean it to be an insult, I'm just saying.) Our laws are not perfect and they never will be, but I feel you're making a choice when you commit illegal activity. There's plenty of poor people who play by the rules and get by.

"07-23-14: Nonoise
One needs only to google predatory lending practices to see how badly the poor are marginalized and screwed."

Its definitely a problem. There is some partial progress being made on that one. But don't forget, credit issues like this don't effect only poor people. You can make a very good case that reckless credit practices, on both sides of the fence, have turned middle and upper class people into poor people. Common sense and personal responsibility can go a long way.

"One needs only to google redlining practices in insurance rates and discover that although it's illegal, it's still done through other means (I used to work in insurance so don't try to tell me otherwise)."

That whole statement is a little vague. I do work in insurance. I'm fully licensed in both P&C and Life & Health in 3 states, as well as having my related Fed securities licenses. I think what you are talking about exists like you say, but the problem is no where near large enough to make a case for keeping poor people poor. Actually, I'm surprised that you don't bring up the biggest problem with insurance companies; paying out legitimate claims. They're absolute scumbags when it comes to that.

"What we take as added costs (taxes, surcharges, fees) amount to total, all consuming costs for the poor. Every penny they make or procure goes right out the door. So yes, they are the hardest hit and it's not their fault. They just have the smallest voice in government and are the last anyone pays attention to."

Why is it not their fault? I've had my ups and downs, and at times I was definitely poor. But it was my fault. I'm the one that made a bunch of jackass decisions that led to the result. I know people will probably take offense to this, but for most poor people, it is they're fault they have no money. I understand there can be exemptions, but people just don't do enough to help themselves. You also mention the poor having a small voice in government and no one pays attention to them. Nothing could be further from the truth. With all the billions that we spend on programs that help the poor, we just get very little positive results. Great attention is paid, its just not working.

One needs only to google predatory lending practices to see how badly the poor are marginalized and screwed.

I'll continue.

One needs only to google redlining practices in insurance rates and discover that although it's illegal, it's still done through other means (I used to work in insurance so don't try to tell me otherwise).

I'll continue.

What we take as added costs (taxes, surcharges, fees) amount to total, all consuming costs for the poor. Every penny they make or procure goes right out the door. So yes, they are the hardest hit and it's not their fault. They just have the smallest voice in government and are the last anyone pays attention to.

Except to denigrate.

All the best,
Nonoise

Selecting only ideas and facts that just supports your argument just so you can win, does no one any good.

But you just did that.

Being poor usually means you live in a poor neighborhood. Your zip code heavily influences your credit and insurance rates. As a percentage of their income, poor people pay higher taxes (including sales taxes, gas surcharges, taxes on utilities, etc) than poor people. And as far as not committing crimes and having a good work ethic, the NYPD walked up to a man in broad daylight and choked him to death for apparently having those two qualities. Poor people have little say in what activities are considered crimes and that is a large part of the reason why jails are filled with poor people.

Do I have to continue?

"07-23-14: Onhwy61
One of the great prevailing myths in American society is that poor people deserve to be poor and rich people deserve to be rich."

I've heard the saying, but one of out great prevailing myths? Where did you find that info?

"07-23-14: Czarivey
Onhwy61, It's true approximately 98%.
Poor pays higher interest rate, often higher tax, higher insurance and very often can't get a descent job."

Being poor does not mean you pay higher interest rates. Your credit rating determines that. Poor people that pay their bills, get low interest rates. Higher taxes? Other than a mistake, I don't see how that's possible. Higher insurance is also nonsense. First of all, charging someone higher insurance based on their income is illegal. Insurance is based on risk. If you have a good driving record, you get a low rate; even poor people. If you take good care of yourself, you get a lower health insurance rate. Jobs? Every well off person I know was poor at one time.

Do I have to continue? It just looks like you guys are picking things out just to argue over. Selecting only ideas and facts that just supports your argument just so you can win, does no one any good. If someone has a good work ethic and doesn't commit crimes, may have something to do with how successful they are. Wouldn't you agree? And if you do, why not include that in your posts, as well?

Onhwy61, It's true approximately 98%.
Poor pays higher interest rate, often higher tax, higher insurance and very often can't get a descent job.
This time most of our taxes for over decade past spent to support military mob games run by our beloved Government instead of supporting economy, education and farming. This greatly benefits monopolists of oil industry that are wealthiest part of our nation that becomes wealthier and welathier ta make sure the "rich gets rich and poor stays poor"(quoted from Leo Cohen's song "Everybody Knows")...

"Everybody Knows" weather it's Republicans or Democrats everything's controlled by ones who moves funds and those can easily move'em out of your personal wallet weather you want it or not while you can't do vice versa.

One of the great prevailing myths in American society is that poor people deserve to be poor and rich people deserve to be rich. Sometimes it's true, but just as often it's not. Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug and it's not like you had a choice in what role you get dealt.

"As Zd542 so ignorantly reminds us it's very easy to blame the victim."

Yes, but its easiest of all to play the victim.

"I am recently back to work and am starting to get back on my feet."

Good for you. If you were still on unemployment, you wouldn't have that new job.

Congratulations on the new position, Dreadhead!

Keep your head down, keep plugging, and have faith in things returning to some level of normalcy for you.

If I may ask, what area of the country do you live in, and what is your field of employment?

Trelja, I don't deny any of your observations regarding the demise of gambling in AC and greatly appreciate your concerns of my financial stability. I am recently back to work and am starting to get back on my feet. As Zd542 so ignorantly reminds us it's very easy to blame the victim.

Borgata is still rockin' with best tournaments and table games. Haven't had much luck in other AC casinos. Those that are closing will turn onto hotels, resorts and will still generate income. No tragedy here and all gamblers even those who want to sell system and invest into casinos are still going to be accommodated.

"07-19-14: Dreadhead
Trelja,
In my case I have every right to blame the economy, and I'm quite sure the current economy has taken its toll on the casual gambler as well. Don't sit on your high horse making statements about something you obviously know very little about, being forced to sell your system due to sixteen months of unemployment on top of which the Republican Party felt as of the first of the year I was not eligible for anymore governmental assistance. When you have to choose between paying your mortgage or having a high end system then get back to me about the current economy."

Sorry, but I have to agree with Trelja on that one. Sure you have the right to blame anyone for anything you like. (Assuming you live in a place like the US. You don't have that right in China.) But when it comes right down to it, you not having any money is your fault. There's plenty of money out there. If you want some, go get it. But to cry about not getting your full 99 weeks of unemployment and then blaming it on some political party, is simply pathetic. You sound like a little kid.

Dreadhead, "When you have to choose between paying your mortgage or having a high end system then get back to me about the current economy."

While mortgages and high-end audio kit have a corollary in the economy, the Atlantic City casino situation does not. Again, gamblers in this area now have access to more than a DOZEN new casinos outside of Atlantic City, not including those opened in MD, NY and the New England states. That obviously siphons an appreciable amount of clientele from the Boardwalk. Gambling numbers have actually increased significantly since Atlantic City held a monopoly in this part of the country, but my point remains others made moves toward not letting the shore town have it all.

By the way, I hope your circumstances have turned for the better...

"Hey I'm the one who mentioned China so please don't bring Macrojack into your rant!"

Sorry. It looked like he was agreeing with you, so I thought the comment was fair.

"Perhaps you should learn more about US history in regards to industry building. Very nasty stuff before the work place became "civilized""

Maybe, but you were the one who brought up China and the US in a modern context. But since you bring up history, a lot has happened since the dawn of the industrial revolution. At least in the US. How long do think its going to take China to catch up with our standards?

Hey I'm the one who mentioned China so please don't bring Macrojack into your rant!

Perhaps you should learn more about US history in regards to industry building. Very nasty stuff before the work place became "civilized"

"@Macrojack-No truer words could have been written about how money is made in the US. In most Asian countries, China to be specific, investment is carefully thought out to benefit the generations to come. Here investors are more concerned about the next quarterly report."

You guys just pick out the facts that you want and ignore the facts you don't like. Look at how money is made in China. The cost of pollution and keeping the environment clean, doesn't apply to them. They do whatever they want without restriction. Pollution is irrelevant. They don't recognize pattens or copyrights. The fact that almost all other countries do is also irrelevant. Lets not forget how they treat their people; like animals. How would you like to have a job in China? You don't get a 15 min break for every 4 hours you work like you do in the US. They do, however, have child labor laws that are pretty fair. They make sure every kid has a job.

Maybe you guys should go over there and see what its like first hand. Just be sure not to commit any crimes or your first hand may become your last hand.

@Macrojack-No truer words could have been written about how money is made in the US. In most Asian countries, China to be specific, investment is carefully thought out to benefit the generations to come. Here investors are more concerned about the next quarterly report. Then again there are Bears like Warren Buffett, perhaps there is something to the long term investment strategy?

So AC benefited from being the only game in town until it no longer enjoyed that distinction. Apparently being a one trick pony was its real cause of failure.

In addition, it sounds like the investors just wanted to milk it to death while investing nothing to broaden its appeal. Strip miners, if you'll pardon the pun.

Seems like a corollary to what is happening across America. Everything now is about the immediate take with no concern for those who will follow. We'll be cleaning up and rebuilding behind the corporate raiders for a long time ---- if we survive them at all.

@Macrojack- Sandy did minimal damage to AC as compared to the towns north. The eye came ashore just south in Sea Isle City with the winds whipping in a circular fashion about 50-100 miles north. Hence all the serious damage in Ocean County and north to NYC.
AC was a victim of it's own success where everyone (unions) tried to cash in. Back when Trump built the Taj he bragged that it cost $1 billion to build. The same size casino resort in Vegas ran about 1/3 of that.

AC dropped the ball on making it more of a family resort. A family of 4 could go to Las Vegas and have a great vacation without ever stepping foot on the casino floor. Ac was all about gambling and not much of a family venue.

As noted by many, the proliferation of online gambling with PA and NY building casinos, AC has lost its customer base.

AC is closing due to internet gambling being legal in NJ. No need to leave your house, pay for gas, drinks, dinner.

Trelja,
In my case I have every right to blame the economy, and I'm quite sure the current economy has taken its toll on the casual gambler as well. Don't sit on your high horse making statements about something you obviously know very little about, being forced to sell your system due to sixteen months of unemployment on top of which the Republican Party felt as of the first of the year I was not eligible for anymore governmental assistance. When you have to choose between paying your mortgage or having a high end system then get back to me about the current economy.