I own a pair of KING in-line maraschinos since the best speaker cable is the shortest one you can find, hanging the amp off the speaker terminals is the next best thing to having the amp built into the cabinet itself. Highly recommended. https://www.cherryamp.com/maraschino In an ideal world, you want an amplifier which behaves like a voltage source, meaning, that it has nearly zero output impedance (i.e. extremely high damping factor) and is DC coupled to avoid phase shift over the audio frequency band. The cherry amps are as close a straight wire with gain that as I've found. Best Regards Bill |
@gotog
Thanks for the heads up! I did also worry about that too and asked the seller on Amazon about how it will match with given specification of Monitor Audio Speaker. Their response was "it will work well" but I know there are ton of sellers who says that to anyone. So, I am glad you pointed that out for me. I also didn't stop looking through more options in speakers and I realized the MA Gold 100 5G might not last long in my custody as I found out their PL line, especially the PL 100 II and 200 II, can really satisfy my audio needs. Gold 100 5G shares PL lines AMT tweeter so it's more of a economic choice, but I am torn apart a bit. Maybe I will save money for some time and increase my budget to get PL speakers and a very well matched power amp. |
gotog
I think you are rolling the dice with the Muzishare X7
.
There have been many replies to both your posts that have pointed out that the Monitor Audio Gold 100 is more difficult to drive than it may appear.
+1 The OP should go back and read my first post again. Cheers George |
I think you are rolling the dice with the Muzishare X7. The review that was linked by @twoleftears points out that the amp really comes to life with speakers like Klipsch and Tekton and sounded kind of dull with other speakers that were tried. Your speakers are a totally different beast than Klipsch or Tekton and could easily sound dull when powered by this amp. There have been many replies to both your posts that have pointed out that the Monitor Audio Gold 100 is more difficult to drive than it may appear. Also, if you are attracted to the feature which allows you to change the presentation of the amp by switching between triode and ultralinear beware that in triode operation the power rating drops significantly and may not be useful to you at all. On paper, I can't say the Muzishare is a good choice. However, since it can be bought on Amazon, you can try it and send it back if it does not work out.
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Good choice on the tube amp.
Happy listening ;) |
@blumartini @twoleftears
Thanks for taking time to help out my journey! I actually saw that video review a while ago and also several demo videos. Sounded really nice to me. My purchase of all the gears might take a longer time than I thought, but will put end results along with some thoughts so other new audiophiles can look through later. I learn so much from you guys! Thanks! |
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@talkskiwon
Looks like Luxman Neo Classic, nice looking piece . Hope it sounds as good as it looks. Keep us posted.
Cheers! |
@blumartini
Hi
Long story short, the number one candidate at the moment is Muzishare X7 tube integrated.
K |
@talkskiwon
Just curious, after over 50 some odd replies as to what amp to get are you any closer to picking 1?
Cheers! |
I forgot to add that dealer equipment will already be burned in... so you will get to hear what the amp actually sounds like.
Also... most dealers take trade-ins... so you may find a great deal on something used. |
talkskiwon,
Since you state that your local dealers sell high priced equipment... might I suggest that you look for dealers up to an hour drive away... that sell more modest priced equipment.
Take your speakers with you to audition them with any prospective amps, power cords, speaker cables, and interconnects that the dealers may sell.
Granted... you won't be listening in your own room... but you may find a magical combination at those dealers, that works for you. |
I do own a Schiit modi3 and a Saga preamp. I am very happy with them. I am more of a tube guy and own a couple of set amps. I also own a pair of Decware Imperials. I am working on building a pair of Decware zkit 1 amplifiers. My set amps put out around 3 watts so they would not work for you.
I will make a power amp suggestion. I am thinking about getting a Crown XLS drivecore2 for my Imperials. The 1002 model ($339 list) puts out 550w@2ohms ,350w@4ohms and 215w@8ohms. It has a 3 year warranty. It is also a very versatile amp. It has a built in electronic crossover with high and low pass. Internal electronic y adapter for bi amping that would reduce interconnects/connections. It also features 1/4in jack, rca and xlr inputs. For speakers it has speakon and binding posts.
Crown’s parent company is Harman Professional and Crown has had a very strong reputation in professional audio for many years. Plus their amps are considered to be one of the best kept secrets in home theater. Read some reviews. I have seen some people compare them to audiophile amps costing 10 times the price or more. Out of all the models in the XLS line the 2002 and the 2502 have a lower noise floor.
I have heard quite a few of Crown’s products. Both in live venue and in a studio. I have a few friends who are musicians. You would need a preamp to go with it. This would make a great starter amp and could be repurposed later on as your needs change.
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Don’t expect a new amp to take the place of good room acoustics. |
Adcom is a good choice however B&K ST-140 has the biggest bang for the buck in audio recommended by audiophiles that own pieces in the $5k and above mark.
Look up the reviews.
Cheers! |
McCormack Audio. A used one is very reasonable and it can be transformed into a reference component, by McCormack Audio. |
I highly recommend the Adcom GFA-555 or Nakamichi PA-7 power amps. Both have plenty of power and sound great! A good Adcom can easily be found online used for around $500, and the Nak will cost you about twice that. Pair it up with an Adcom preamp (I use a GTP-500, which includes a tuner), and you have all you need to start! Might want to make sure your preamp has an input for Phono, just in case you get the Vinyl Bug! ;) |
If you are looking to spend under a thousand you'd be hard-pressed to do better than a Naim NAP 100. |
Thank you everyone, once again, for the kind recommendations and heads ups ! |
Synergy...what amp marries up the best with your selected speaker. |
I'm fairly new as well and since I don't have any decent audio stores near me, I've ordered equipment, listened to it, didn't like it and returned it. I did this several times until I found a really good dealer about 70 miles away and I finally found what I like---the sound I was looking for. Here's some advice from another novice---once you find your equipment, upgrade your interconnects, A/C cords. To my ears, they have made a HUGE difference over the stock cords. Don't forget to play around with speaker placement too. Also, someone on here suggested watching Steve Guttenberg videos as well as John Darko and Zero Fidelity. Go to an Audio Fest like Axpona or Capital Audio Fest if you can----they are so fun and I learn a lot from them. Finally, enjoy the journey and have fun!! |
I would suggest a Harman Kardon Citation 16 or A Bryston 3 or 4BST. All the power you will ever need. I have a completely rebuilt better than new HK 16 that I would part with.
Research them both. You won't be disappointed and they are easily in your budget. |
I’ll second the PS Audio s300.
I have one powering Monitor Audio PL 200s. It never runs out of steam - unbeatable, in my opinion, for the price (Around $1,000).
Yes, you can get more refinement and air from other amps, but it will run your another grand - at least.
Additionally - made by a great company that supports its products long-term.
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One positive is that these figures are not in the bass region. Yes the bass is where all the power is needed, but it doesn’t matter, it still taxes the amps, look what happens to many amps that try to drive ML’s esl 1ohm at HF, they sound distant and muted or if unstable, can oscillate, at worst blow. Cheers George |
OP: if you go the Vincent route, you can deal directly with Audio Advisor. Some of their phone-answerers are quite helpful, and they can also fill you in on any deals. Also, I believe they have a 30 day trial period on everything. |
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Thanks gotog
What do you think about Peachtree Audio nova300?
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Agree with previous posts indicating that you need an amp that can handle a 2 ohm load. The Vincent is a solid choice. There also seems to be a lot of love in this forum (and on 6moons) for the Kinki Studio EX-M1.
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mesch and gryphongryph
Thanks for bringing up the Vincent Integrated.
I was almost down for
1. MHDT Orchid DAC
2. Muzishare X7 Tube Amp (can toggle to choose 2 sound character)
but, the SV 237 MK seems like it can sound as awesome as the combo above.
Less cable management and Amazon listing are plus, too :)
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George, that was my thinking though I wasn't nearly so succinct. One positive is that these figures are not in the bass region.
Also the system is to be placed in a small room.
I do like the Vincent amps at the OPs budget. The SV-237MK is rated at 150wpc at 8 and 300 at 4ohms. |
talkskiwon OP
Beginner Audiophile. How to chose a right amp? Recommendation for my setup?
These two figures below of the
Monitor Audio Gold 100
are within 1/2 an octave of each other and indicates the "need of an amp that is going to be very comfortable and not break a sweat seeing a 2ohm load". Impedance 2.7ohm @ 3.5kHz
Negative phase –64° @ 2.4kHz And at 84db the amp to be 100w or more amp also. Cheers George |
Vincent amps sound way over their price point I am led to believe, they also use tubes in the pre section on some of their integrated amps, so you can upgrade your sound that way if so inclined.
Good hunting. |
Lots of great advice here. If you want a small amp you won’t outgrow which doubles down into 2 ohms and has a lower signal to noise ratio than most pre-amps then check out the Benchmark AHB2 used if you can find it. There are a lot of very innovative design concepts built in and I can testify to it’s capability driving my huge 4 ohm 20.1 Maggies which are very current thirsty. I’ve bought a lot of great gear used on Audiogon but the good stuff takes patience to find at decent prices. I agree with others and have passed on my philosophy to my daughter, buy it once and buy it right. I took it to the extreme and lived years with virtually nothing, stereo or TV to save for what I wanted.
Good luck :) |
I would be a Parasound. Tons of power and great sound for the money. Wish they had home theater amp when I was looking. |
I was in your position 2 years ago. I think it depends on where you are coming from and where you are at. Assuming you're youngish with some years of earning $ to go, I would not hesitate to start smaller and take some baby steps. Don't get caught up in the "you have to spend $3000+ to get real sound" nonsense, it would be pointless in a small apartment. If you're used to basic to medium quality audio products, a step into intro-level audiophile products is going to be a big upgrade, and then you can just build from there.
Some products to consider:
Kanto Audio - TUK powered speakers
Outlaw Audio RR2160 - An integrated amp with good clean power and plenty of room for growth
Monitor Audio - The Bronze line of speakers are fantastic for the price
Meridian Explorer 2 - A pocket USB DAC that will also fully unfold MQA audio and hi-res streaming |
I don't believe the Orchid DAC has volume control so you would be best off with a integrated amplifier. Based on your latest thread, you have ~$3500 you are willing to invest in Amp, DAC, and streamer. The Orchid retails about $1100, and is a very good DAC at that price point I believe. I am not familiar with the streamer you have selected however many are using the Bluesound Node (several threads here on this component) which sells for $500. This then places your budget at ~$2000 for an integrated amplifier. Provided you choose one that is objectively (electrical) and subjectively (your tastes) compatible with your speakers you should have a system that pleases you in reference to the system mentioned in the other thread. |
What I focused on during the research was to pick gears that can produce wide sound stage, great 3d imaging, airy voices, and great details with smooth yet realistic sounds.
To me, what you’re looking for is right in line with what McCormack amps do very well. If you go on Hifi Shark and search McCormack you’ll find several nice used units. The issue is that the older models made in the mid/late 90s are starting to have their input boards fail, which basically requires a rebuild of the amp. I had this issue with my DNA 0.5 Rev A, but I’m not sure if the DNA 1 has the same issue. There’s a DNA1 deluxe for $999 and a DNA 1 Rev A for $1500 (probably the best $500 you’ll ever spend in audio if you can stretch a bit as this is a really special amp for the price). You can call Steve McCormack at SMcAudio and he’ll let you know if an amp may have the input board issue. Or you can wait until a DNA 125 comes available, which was a newer model and shouldn’t have the input board issue. In any event, I think sound wise a McCormack amp would be a superb fit in your system. Best of luck. |
mesch, I live in an apartment and the livingroom is about 8 feet x 13 feet. It is actually larger than that if I include entrance area (about 7 feet x 5 feet ish), but that is the box size of the living room I would say. For now I am looking for a power amp to combo with MHDT Orchid DAC, but I can also just set for a integrated amp like Hagel Rost or H120. |
8th-note, I live in an apartment and definitely don’t want to make any noise problem. I don’t get a sub for that reason. I would like to listen to music in low volume, but with out loss of details, depth, and staging. If that’s the case, what factor should I consider from an amp besides the power? damping factor? |
Again, thank you all. I really appreciate all the tips and suggestions. Will keep learning from here. |
What a fun journey to start! I suggest you read Roger Sanders white paper on transistors versus tubes or something like that. It's on the Sanders sound systems website. |
The key piece of information here is that your speakers are very insensitive and they are very difficult to drive. One of the first questions you must answer is how loud you like to listen and how big and dead is your room. These are bookshelf speakers so one might expect that you would play them at moderate volumes but If you like to listen at high volumes and if your room is large with a carpeted floor and lots of furniture you are going to need an amp with high wattage that doubles its power into 4 ohms and preferable doubles its power again into 2 ohms.
I suggest that you consider the amp's ability to put out substantial power at 2 ohms as one of your main criteria. If the manufacturer doesn't list power output at 2 ohms then IMO you should rule it out.
Here is an example of an integrated amp that you can find on the used market that has a very high current output - Denon PMA 2000IVR. It's rated at 80 watts into 8 ohms and 320 watts into 2 ohms. I have one of these in my secondary system and it sounds very good. There are several iterations of this amp but the series all has the beefy power output. They cost between $500 and $1000 for one in mint condition. This amp would be a good baseline and later on when you want to upgrade it would be an excellent reference.
If you go out and spend a bunch of money on a new amp it's going to be impossible to make a judgement of its sound because you have nothing to compare it to. You might think it doesn't sound very good but your problem could be any number of things besides the amp. Going with a competent used amp to start with will allow you to optimize your system regarding speaker placement, room acoustics, and maybe the addition of a subwoofer. Then when you get the bug to upgrade you have the ability to hear whether or not it sounds better. |
In your <$1K I recommend PS Audio S300. I see them used for $900.
Mine plays magic with my miniDSP Studio (why pay for a redundant internal DAC?)
300 w/ch Into my 4 ohm ESLs is all the power I desire.
Audio Arts or Wireworld are my recommendations for speaker cable.
I love Morrow Audio ICs for form factor AND SQ. |
As a followup, the review is from HiFiNews. They also indicate in the Lab report that the impedance drops to 2.7 ohms at 3.5KHz and is at 32 ohms at 33HZ, quite a swing over the frequency range. The phase angle runs from -64 degrees at 2.4 KHZ to 52 degrees at 24Hz.
Though the low impedance does not fall at the low frequencies, I would not consider this speaker to be easy to drive.
I provide this not to confuse but in hopes that it will better help others to advise. |
Steve Guttenburg listed some amps he liked for reasonable sums. https://youtu.be/CApq8h336S0I use a Rega Brio that could work for you. I was thinking about a used Hegel as an alterativ, thay could be an option. |
One review where lab tests were run, found the sensitivity of the Gold 100s to be 84.5. This is on the low side.
What is the size of your room and how far is listening position from speakers?
Are you looking for a power amp or an integrated amp? |
I agree with twodolphins, IF you're buying new. However, if you're buying used, you can do it and get all those things he mentions along with killer bass. I also, agree with him about buy once for quality and sound, and don't have to go through the hassle of buying and selling over and over u until you get lucky.
Read reviews online along with the Audiogon Forum about amps you might be interested in to get the strengths and weaknesses of different amps. I did all that and then found a seller with the Nuforce Ref 9 V3 SE mono amps. We agreed on a price and I loved the sound--it was a very good upgrade from the previous Bryston 8B and Edge M6 amps I had before--both bought used, one for $1500, the other for $800. The cheaper buy of the Edge sounded better than the Bryston. Both those amps were $3000 amps when new. Soundwise, the Nuforce was much more detailed, transparent, dynamic, and still very musical. That's the reason I had Bob Smith at TDSS do the upgrades to it. He said the amps would be MUCH better in all ways as part of the upgrades was beefing up the power supplies. I could have lived with the standard Nuforce amps for along time, too, but after the upgrades, I know they will be my last amps. |
There is no 1000$ amplifier on the market that can produce "wide sound stage, great 3d imaging, airy voices, and great details with smooth yet realistic sounds". Smooth and realistic sound starts with 3000-5000$ mark amplifiers. Save your time and money, buy decent audiophile high-end amplifier immediately. Othervise you'll make 5-10 upgrades before settling down with something that actually pleases you. At the end, your journey will cost you much more than initial cost of high end amplifier. |
Get a good warranty on the amp. If you buy new you should get at least 5 year warranty. Bryson Amps. |
Thanks everyone. I really appreciate adding great amps on my option! Will check on that monoblock Ref 9!! |
