+ for low level compensation, loudness switch, whatever you want to call it, I listen to most music at low levels and use this feature exclusively. It's a matter of implementation, I have found the compensation switch on my Accuphase Preamp to give that texture and body missing at lower volume levels. My ears prefer a lower volume level as I have gotten older. My neighbors are probably happier as well.
BEST SPEAKER THAT COMES TO LIFE AT LOW LISTENING LEVELS
My system is as follows:
- Martin Logan 11A Impressions hybrid electrostatic speakers.
- Bryston 4B3 cubed power amp 300 per channel into 8 and 500 into 4.
- Bryston BP-19 preamp, Chord Qutest Dac & Lumin U2 mini stream.
- SVS subs-pair of SB-4000
- I listen at 55-60 dbs. Can anybody recommend a speaker with a budget of $15,000.00 per pair that sounds alive and dynamic at low listening levels. My dealer sells, Totem, Triangle and Proac.
- Any recommendations would be appreciated. Due to age and ear issues I can listen comfortably at 55-60 dbs and not much louder.
- Thanks in advance for any help that you can provide.
103 responses Add your response
I admired the Dahlquist DQ30i speakers in the early nineties. I bought a mint pair one year ago as the price was too good to ignore. ($800.00) I only have them on my television setup that includes a Sony video receiver. I have had numerous high end speakers on this system. None have sounded as good as the Dahlquists. Even at moderate volume there is respectable bass response, I need help at this point in time to move them to my main system. They could be "end system speakers", they are that good. Keep your eyes open for a used pair. They won't disappoint! Joe |
I'll second the Devore O/96 suggestion made by an earlier poster. High sensitivity, so easily driveable, gorgeous visually and sonically (IMO). And, oh yes, sound lovely at low volumes as well. If there is a dealer within reach, might want to give them a listen. Your Bryston is a fabulous piece btw. Although currently running a Pass integrated, I've had several different Bryston amps & preamps over the years and can't speak highly enough of the company. The 4B3 might possibly be a little overpowered for O/96s however, depending on how much you value being able to use the volume knob past the '9 o'clock' position :-) But the 4B3 would likely sound superb with Devores. I still had my last Bryston amp at the time I purchased my own O/93s and the match was lovely. I did, however, end up with a Pass INT-25 during a conversion from full separates to an integrated amp. Good luck in your endeavor! |
Børresen speakers have an inherent response that compensates for the Munson/EL curve. Klipsch Heresys are also pretty good for such dilemmas, but they lack some refinement relative to others, and require tube amps to sound best. Another good option might be a powered speaker with onboard DSP such as the KEF LS50W or LS60, which will mostly allow you to tune the response to taste, without the drawbacks you get from conventional analog tone controls.
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Well, if no one else brought them up, Quad 57's. And if you want to take them to the next level, remove the grills and you might want stretch a shear cloth over the fronts. I used black polyester cloth and painted side panels with black paint. Actually did a bit more to them in the almost forty years I have owned them. They look much more modern. But just removing the grills makes a shocking improvement. If you own clumsy pets or children, maybe leave grills on. Personally over the years working on them I probably took a hundred shocks or so from them. That might explain something about me; just joking. Maybe |
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I had a similar need in my workshop. I am very happy with:
I can listen to Steely Dan on this for 8hrs straight and be totally happy... There is NO need for "Audiophile / Expensive" gear to accomplish 60-65db listening levels for all the Fletcher/Loudness/"V" shape information already listed above. Any Yamaha w/"Loudness" solution will do, and some B&W's... :-) |
I fell in love with PBN a few years ago and never turned back. Started with a pair of used Montanas. Then after appreciating the high effort and full range sound I upgraded to the M1!5’s. The Sensitivity of: 94dB/2.83V/1M makes these shine at any volume. Peter builds every speaker himself with great care. Take a look. |
Two changes made listening to my system at low volumes not only tolerable, but preferable: improved amplification and stereo subwoofers. Doesn't need to be super-expensive, just well matched. Vandersteen, REL could be good options. I love sealed enclosures, speakers and subs. One other factor that is a no-brainer: making your. listening environment as quiet as possible. |
I have no dog in this fight, since what I’m about to recommend is quite contrary to what I normally design. That said ... A full-range driver with a tonality YOU like. They are all colored, none are neutral or flat, but some are really pleasing at conversational or background levels. Lowther, AER, Feastrex, etc. etc. Backhorn loading sounds best with these guys, not a conventional box. Why? Well, a problem with most multiway speakers is dynamic tracking. It shouldn’t be, but it is real and very audible and annoying. Subjectively, the drivers fall "out of sync" with each other at low levels, and the speaker sounds disjointed and very artificial and "hifi". What you want at modest levels is the best table radio you’ve ever heard, which is where full-range drivers come in. The out-of-sync problem is worst with complex low-efficiency speakers. They sound great at 85 dB or more, powered by 300-watt amplifiers, but turn it down to background levels and all you hear is an indistinct grumbling, hardly music at all. Simplicity is your friend here; a basic 2-way will sound better than a 3 or 4 way, fewer drivers will sound better than many, and a full-range driver that falls apart at 95 dB will be a real charmer at 60 dB. What you want is crystal clarity at conversational levels ... and yes, a fully restored Quad ESL57 is one of the best speakers ever made for those levels. Very low distortion and perfect square waves. The most pure and honest tonality ever. Perhaps best of all, there is NO CHANGE in tonality over the 50 to 80 dB range. Some of the full-rangers (AER, Feastrex) are like that too. As for amplifiers, Small Is Beautiful. No more than two transistors, or two power tubes, per channel. Maybe even single-ended if you’re into that sound. No Class AB. You want Class A, whether transistor or tube. |
I'm not sure how to PM a poster but I will write anyway. This is to the Original Poster kjl1065 I am curious why you chose the SVS sub and not the Martin Logan sub since you have Martin Logans. I have a pair of ML Request and the Abyss Sub. I was thinking of getting the SVS since I need to vary the phase other than a 3 choice switch. I stumbled on the ML subwoofer series and they to have variable phase. So kjl1065 could you please enlighten me. |
Here is a good idea to investigate: https://www.high-endaudio.com/used_he.html Arthur Savadore is probably the most knowadgeable person I know of in this hobby, and he has a set at your price that may fit your needs perfectly. Any time I've tried anything he has suggested, the performance has been 100% spot on. He considers "sound floor" as his major criteria for evaluating speakers. That sounds like what you are looking for. Personally, I either would not recommend any suggested above that I have heard, or I am totally unfamiliar with the models suggested. The reason being is that you are currently using electrostatics, and I would think that a different build philosophy may get you where you need to go. If you happen to be in Florida, Arthur is based out of there. If you decide to investigate this, tell him "hi" for me, and I haven't forgot about the Ella Fitzgerald review. Hope it goes well! Sincerely, John |
+1 @porchlight1 That is EXACTLY what I've done in my system: I have Maggie 1.7is (modded w/ outboard crossover upgrade--but that's another story), and have the Schitt Lokius sitting between a Prima Luna 300 preamp and a Parasound A21+. Besides an additional 3db boost when "on", the 6 band adjustment make a huge difference w/ low level listening, (actually, any listening), and I can turn it off whenever I choose, easy-peasey. Like you, my normal listening levels are in the 60-65db range. With the Lokius, the bass adjustment allows a full rich sound across the soundstage. I'm very happy to have that unit in the system and eventually I'll move up to the flagship. Good luck! |
This thread got me thinking. Klipschorns were mentioned as sounding good at low volume. I would agree they can be captivating, although not a lot of bass. I think the loudness curve has something to do with it. But the speaker can have flat on-axis response. It just needs a total power response that has a dip in the middle, and I think that's what the k-horns do with that big beamy mid-horn, and that little tweeter up top. So perhaps a smaller speaker with an 8 inch mid-woofer that's crossed over kind of high to a small, wide dispersion tweeter would have similar low volume effect. |
HELLO MY AUDIOPHILE BROTHER, THE SVS EVLOUTION PINNACLE SPEAKER IS THE BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK ! I JUST AUDITIONED THEM TO MY SYSTEM ! WITH TUBES THEY ARE OUTSTANDING WITH MY KLIPSCH CORNSCALLAS ! READ........... Flagship SVS tower speaker is an innovation tour-de-force standing toe-to-toe with the finest speakers in the world delivering high-fidelity sound for both two-channel audiophiles and home theater fans. The Culmination of Sonic Obsession. Ultra Evolution Pinnacle represents the culmination of SVS breakthroughs in driver design, component materials, and cabinet architecture, married with a relentless passion for audio excellence. The science of sonic perfection in harmony with a love of convincing and immersive sound. Never has this fusion of design elements existed in a single speaker. Acoustically centered time alignment, diamond coated aluminum dome tweeters, force-balanced woofer array and other advancements embody an uncompromising approach to floor-standing speaker design Acoustic innovations are brought to life with painstaking anechoic and real-world measurement and voicing. This final bit of artistry places Ultra Evolution Pinnacle among the highest fidelity tower speakers ever created. [SVS'] mission has always been to ignite a passion for transcendent music and home theater experiences by rendering the truest sonic playback. The joy of pristine clarity, absolute transparency, stunning dynamics, and effortless bass for more people than ever. SVS Ultra Evolution Pinnacle deeply connects you to the emotion of sound. Acoustically Centered Time Alignment Cabinet Architecture Curved front baffle aligns all drivers on a vertical plane ensuring sound from each driver reaches your ears at the exact same instant. Maximizes phase coherence for more convincing and immersive soundstage with pinpoint accuracy and imaging. Midrange drivers and woofers positioned above and below the tweeter allow for seamless crossover blending to create an idealized “point-source” where sound emanates from single point in front of the speaker to optimize dispersion characteristics. Quad 8” Glass Fiber Woofers in Force-Balanced Array Dual opposing active woofers on the top and bottom of the cabinet render effortless low frequency response while addressing room modes with deep, authoritative bass is evenly spread throughout the listening area. Mechanical energy from each front-firing woofer is equaled inside the cabinet by the rear-firing woofer eliminating mechanical coloration for pure, accurate low frequencies at any playback level. Dual 5.25" Glass Fiber Composite Midrange Drivers Superb stiffness to mass ratio on dual driver array conveys stunning dynamics with flawless tonal accuracy. SPECS: Tweeter | 1" Midrange | Dual 5.25" Woofer | Quad 8" Freq. Response | 24 Hz-40 kHz (±3 dB) Dimensions | 49.61" (H) 11.81" (W) 18.14" (D) ORIGINAL PRICE IF NEW: $5000.00 (PAIR PRICING) |
I recently had the pleasure of listening to the OJAS collaboration with Klipsch, the KO-R1 at my local hifi shop. At low volumes it sounded absolutely amazing with vocal content. Not much below 50 Hz with these as I understand, but if you aren't listening to a lot of pop music or music with sub bass content, these would fit the bill nicely paired with your subwoofers For those that keep bringing up Fletcher Munson, although this is good information, what people don't account for is the fact that our hearing and our biases for sound at low level can oftentimes incorporate the FM curve automatically as that's how we are used to lower DB music sounding. Although completely accurate, I don't think adjusting to the FM curve always makes sense with "loudness" functions. Lower dB music may have lowered bass etc because of the curve, but the OP may enjoy this perceived lack of low end etc. Just food for thought - maybe the curve is WHY he likes low volume listening. I second those that are asking about your power conditioning. I have a Gemini 8 from Shunyata and it made a huge difference for low level detail at lower volume. OJAS are $8k or so, Gemini 8 is $2500. $10,500 and enough left over to see an audio specialist about the ears! |
Again, thank you for your responses. I have not disappeared from the site. I respectfully asked for opinions from fellow members to guide me in improving my listening experience. I read each member response. When someone asked me a question that I could answer, I did so. By the way, it seems to me that after I upgrade my DAC , the next step would be to add an equalizer to boost certain frequencies to minimize the effects of the Fletcher Munson Curve. If that does not do the trick would consider a speaker upgrade. It is difficult to obtain advice today from people that have no financial interest in their opinions. Thank you, again.
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Your ML 11A's are a fine loudspeaker but may not be everyone's cup of tea, so to speak. Other forum members have accurately described the limitations of nearly every loudspeaker to deliver dynamic music at low listening levels attributable to the Fletcher Munson Curve. You could try near field listening with the loudspeaker very close to your listening position. No cost involved and it may just work. Your choices are therefore limited to 1) Great set of Ear Speakers/Headphones with complimentary electronics 2) An altogether different loudspeaker. There have been many good alternatives listed. The Devore O/96 is one of that's been mentioned several times and may fit your needs very well. An in-home audition would be a great starter. Best of luck |
I also use ML 11As and I find them engaging and enjoyable at the level you prefer, but I understand that everyone's ears and experiences are different. I have also experienced better results after installing a line conditioner, and it's pretty affordable too (Niagara 1200). thank you @elliottbnewcombjr for the information on the RLC-1, I have an older (at what point can something I purchased new be considered "vintage"?) preamp that never had remote capability and after all these years it would be nice to finally control the volume from my listening position. |
hifiguy42a ’new in the box’ was listed 2 days ago, $225., make offer option included all the used Chase RLC-1 units listed now are missing the remote which you definitely need because there are no controls on the unit. a few remotes are listed separately. IF all it’s lights blink when plugged in, that is normal, and they all use the same KP-1 remote, no pairing required. You could risk buying a remote and buying a blinking one, but no guarantee, only 1 remote listed now. To be certain it is in it’s default centered positions, you need to unplug it, when you plug it back in all the lights blink, press the remote they stop blinking, it goes to defaults with VCR input selected: balance, volume, all adjustments centered. I just drilled a hole and added a toggle switch to one so I can reset to defaults easily. someone uses it to control the volume of a stereo pair of self-powered subs "It’s perfect for controlling subwoofer volume from IR, which is how I used it. But it’s stereo on each of the 4 channels so you can control levels for dual subs. Perfect for AVRs that don’t have an easy separate subwoofer volume." It has two sets of identical outputs (RCA), and a Fader, so it could control the volume of 4 subs, and adjust one pair of them separately if desired.
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hmmm, the implementation I like: bass boost is automatic and progressive when the volume is lowered below default, so using an RLC-1 to lower a sub’s volume is a no-no. all ’loudness’ controls implementation needs to be 1st understood, 2nd setup properly with the ’other’ volume control (your preamp’s volume), 3 REMEMBERED, |
@elliottbnewcombjr thank you again! I offered a price and it is now being shipped to me. I am really looking forward to being able to control the volume while playing vinyl, which is pretty much 100% of the time when I'm "actively listening". I have been using this preamp (ARC LS7) since 1995, and it didn't include remote capability. Not having to jump up before the end of Tschaikovsky's 4th to turn the volume down will be a welcome chance for my increasingly creaky joints. Sincerely, good looking out. |
hifiguy42 yesterday I came across an old discussion, it mentioned 4 other maker’s devices that can add remote volume, various features, the Chase is the only one that has the automatic and progressive bass boost for low volume listening, and the only one that has remote balance, a feature you will never want to live without once you have tweaked the imaging of a few tracks, a very small balance refinement can make a very large difference. Pioneer RC760 Creek OBH-10 Yamaha Acoustic Research ................ |
elliottbnewcombjr That's excellent, that balance control sounds pretty sweet - so many recordings seem slightly "right speaker biased" but I figured that due to the room limitations it was just something I'd have to live with. I'm just hoping there is no "sonic signature" imparted by the Chase, it seems to really check every box otherwise. It is supposed to arrive on Tuesday, and I will report back once I've had a chance to fiddle a bit. |
Hi I also like to listen at low volume. I have found in my experience the single driver crossover less speaker allows me to listen at low level and all musical nuance is revealed. In my opinion (and I am not alone) that a multi driver speaker with a low volume signal all that detail gets lost in the crossover. To compensate for that signal loss the volume has to be raised to allow the detail to flow. Thanks Bob
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Hi I think there are many company’s who make single driver crossover less speakers. You can do an internet search, that would be the best way to familiarize yourself on this subject. I can tell you about the single driver speakers I have. They are Omega speakers out of Newtown, Connecticut https://omegaloudspeakers.com/ Give them a call and talk to Louis. He never BS’ed me ! Thanks Bob PS Single driver speakers have certain characteristics should be investigated |
