Bluesound installed DAC - music killer?

@emergingsoul I bought a Node 2i back in July, I didn't think it was too bad for the price. I had always planned on getting a DAC, but I could live with the built in DAC. Last night I installed my new Chord Qutest.  I knew it would make a difference but I thought it would be more subtle. I hear so many things, but what comes to mind is clean, detailed, black backgrounds. Each note is so defined and clean, yet not a hint of analytical or sterile or bright at all, and I haven't even played with the filters on it, I am using the incisive neutral. It is also soooo much more open, each instrument more separated from the rest, duets each have their own detail separate voice in the mic. I love it.

Sounds like Your new chord Dac is like attending a live recording/performance. Filters nice to play with.

i want nothing between me and my calvins.

@jmphotography 
I have read that the Qutest can be overly bright or analytical in some systems. . Can you tell us what speakers and amplification you are using? Glad to hear you are enjoying the Qutest.

@ericsch Sure. I am using an 18 yr old pair of B&W CDM9NT being driven by a PrimaLuna EVO 300 integrated. Using an older Kimber Illuminati D60 coax cable between the 2i and Qutest and Kimber Hero RCA between the Qutest and PrimaLuna. I did not pick up any sense of brightness, and like I said I was using the incisive neutral, which is basically no tone control/filter. I listen to a lot of female vocal like Norah Jones and Alison Krauss and sometimes she can get up there and get edgy in the higher octaves and I did not sense any brightness or harshness to her voice. Instead she sounded more present in my sound room than I have ever heard. Hearing what I hear now I can say the Node 2i had some graininess, this DAC is detailed, like every note is so precise in its own way. Oh and this was all right out of the box, a lot of people say it has to burn in, well it sounds great now.

@emergingsoul

Ever throw a sheet over your speakers?  Sure sounded like this to me when I began using bluesound.

If you are connecting to the net using the supplied ethernet cable, you might consider purchasing the Supra CAT 8+ from seller "zendada" on eBay.  Its only $59 which includes free shipping.  Calling it CAT 8+ is a bit of advertising fluff, as its really only CAT 8, as Supra does not make 8+.

Using this cable made a big difference on my node 2i.  A very noticeable one day or so break in difference.  If you go this route be sure to not accidentally order from the Supra seller out of England.  If you do you get hit with a $18 shipping cost and three week or so delivery time, versus free one day shipping from US seller "zendada".

I am using an external DAC with my 2i, but thought the built in DAC was ok for casual listening.

Soooo disappointing.

Just curious what you're comparing this $500 piece of gear to?  Is there an equally priced streaming DAC that blows it away that I'm not aware of?

After owning a Node 2 for a few years (since it's release actually) I've wondered if/when Bluesound would develop a streamer sans DAC and upgraded parts. Surely it would cannibalize sales but only in the small audiophile market.

@melvinjames You have a great point. I would certainly be interested in one!

@jmphotography Thanks for your detailed response.

I have a Qutest driven by an Auralic G1.. Sounds great. I use Audience Front Row USB. 

@three_easy_payments the old Sonos connect for just 250,-? Does everything the bluesound does but is just a little bit less premium finish.

Just saw this on TAS (published today):

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/bluesound-node-2i-wireless-multi-room-high-res-music-streamer/

Absolute sound article.  Not much about bluesound dac.

i am comparing bs dac to the marantz 5014 avr.  And that may be not be so good as well.

Will have a lot more to say after new dac arrives, tomorrow.

@sjeesjie

@three_easy_payments the old Sonos connect for just 250,-? Does everything the bluesound does but is just a little bit less premium finish.

 I haven't looked at the Sonos platform in some time but I didn't think it supported hi-res audio.  I could be wrong but if I'm not that's a massive difference.

Like @jmphotography I too bought a chord qutest.... Can't recommend enough. As he said the most musical presentation I have heard. Also did an upgrade on the bluesound 2i with new board and power supply. So good that it trumped my linn klimax streamer that I sold it which paid for the bluesound and upgrade and qutest twice over. 

Interesting TAS take.  MQA is a proprietary format not distinguishable in the real world. Of course it can't be compared to DSD cuz it don't play on the BluSound. All I know for sure is that the BluSound sounds much better on a better DAC. Common sense. And if you're gonna do that just spend a lil more and get a Pro-Ject S2 Ultra. It plays DSD and every other file type you have without the crappy BluOS persistent queue.

fuzztones, what are you referring to when you mention "the crappy BluOS persistent queue."?

I had a Node 2 and was fairly happy with it for several years.  Certainly not like a sheet over my speakers. Make sure you are not blue-toothing to it. Even though I had my Node connected to Ethernet from the get go it took me a bit to realize that I was sending the signal via Bluetooth and it made a big difference when I started streaming via Ethernet.  Overall my biggest complaint was some loss of definition in the upper mids in complicated passages. 
In April I bought a Mytek Manhattan II DAC w/ network card. I had planned to use the Node streamer into the Manhattan DAC but Mytek happened to come out with a discount price plus a free network card about the time I was ordering. I tried the Node into the Manhattan and it was a huge improvement in all ways over the Node DAC. I then tried out the Mytek network card and found that to be an improvement over the Node streamer but not nearly as significant as the DAC upgrade. 
Since then, I have found myself learning lyrics that I’d been hearing for years (think REM) and counting the number of backing vocalists, etc. Both the top and especially the bottom are greatly improved.  Overall just a much more involving and satisfying experience. 
I’d rather not go back, but the Node 2 brought me lots of enjoyment in the time I used it. I’ll probably pass it on to my 18 year old son soon. 

Let’s get passed because Chord didn’t include a great inexpensive streamer !!!!

both are great for what they do best, combined for the $$$$ they are formidable indeed....

All streamers I’ve tried that are hard wired to Ethernet improve dramatically with the Network Acoustics ENO RFI filter. Highly recommend!

I have the understanding that NAD is the owner of bluesound. And they have a streamer for about 1500.00 . It uses the same card as the node but with a better dac . Anyone that can give some insight into this. 

I have Node 2i and after about a month with it, I connected it with a good Analysis Plus coaxial interconnect to the MHDT Orchid tube DAC. It’s sounding great, now. I rolled the stock tube in the Orchid and it sounds even better. I have no impulse to upgrade the streamer, now. It sounds wonderful.

I have a Vault 2i, love it.... doesn't sound bad through analog out but sounds great with a good DAC.... using a RME adi-2 and its a great combo.

@asw  NAD, Bluesound, and PSB Speakers are all part of the Lenbrook Group head quartered in Pickering, Ontario, Canada.  The product you are thinking of is the NAD C658, which is a DAC, preamp, and network player, which among other things features Dirac Live room correction. 
Sort of like a Bluesound Node 2i on steroids; but unlike the Node 2i, without to my knowledge digital outputs.  I've read about it, but have no personal experience with it.  A couple years ago, I considered it, but settled on a Chord Qutest.  I've been a BluOS user since 2014, and have 4 pieces of Bluesound kit in the house.   

@asw The NAD C-658 is probably the BluOS streamer/pre-amp/DAC you're referring to. It is part of the "Classic" (C-***) series. It uses ESS-Sabre 32bit DAC and includes MM phono stage, DiracLive bass correction (and pay-upgrade to full-freq. version) and balanced outs. It earned top-honors by What-HiFi, Sound & Vision, etc. I don't have experience with this unit, but it is a compelling option.

I do have the C-388 digital integrated amp (with HDMI-2 and BluOS2i MDC modules), and am extremely fond of this all-in-one unit in my 2-ch system. I chose C-388 over the M32 because C-388 has Speaker A/B capability (M32 does not). I use this unit as a source to feed miniDSP4x10HD that functions as a crossover to drive LXmini speakers via 12-ch ATI (class AB) amp. Sometimes, I also listen to a set of Martin Logan electrostats directly from the C-388, normally I route ML's through the miniDSP also - since there are pleanty of amp channels, and it allows taming ML bass and extending the highs (by DSP) - makes them sound better to me. NAD C-388 uses the Burr-Brown PCM-1794(a?).

I recently tried something on the advice of Danny at GR Research (who said the poor-quality DACs in NAD and miniDSP were likely veiling the sound). I purchased two highly-rated (SINAD) Topping E30 DACs, and ran the digital signal (from optical source) direct to miniDSP nanoDIGI (which has 2 digital coax in, DSP processing, and 4 digital coax out) to the Topping DACs for full digital signal till DACs RCA-out to ATI amp. After a couple weeks of listening and playing with DAC filters, my conclusion was...

• It can be made to work - actually works great!
• It sounded different - and adjustable with DAC filters
• It doesn't sound better - to me in my room

Returned the Topping DACs (cost $5), and went back to built-in miniDSP4x10HD DACs. It was a worthwhile exercise and fun experiment - just didn't improve SQ.

@jazzman7 Just as you said, NAD C-658 does not have digital output. M50.2 is the only NAD unit that can feed coax digital to outboard DAC. None of the other NAD gear has the capability of sending BluOS stream (by MDC module or otherwise) to coax digital output. Even the M32, which does have digital coax output - will not output the BluOS stream to it's digital coax jack (yes it has coax output jack, and no it won't pass the BluOS stream - says so in the manual). This is extremely unfortunate that NAD built them like this, as it prevents using an upgraded DAC on all but the M50.2. Notice the new M10 and M33 integrateds don't even have digital coax outputs (older M32 has coax out, but it won't stream).
This small feature limitation caused me a lot of extra hassle, and it makes the Bluesound Node/2/2i the value option (even if you want all-in-one solution). Especially if, like me - you have speakers that require separate channels for each driver. BTW NAD M50.2 is very expensive relative to Node2i.  

Bluesounds have amazing quality for the price. You probably have a bad unit or weak cables.  I have been running a Bluesound Node 2i for a year with high End Nordst Cables. Last week I upgraded to a DirectStream with Kimber XLR > Schiit Freya+ > Parasound A23 Monoblock > Sonus Faber Sonetta VIII

So with the DAC and XLR cables a $6000 upgrade. Of course this is an improvement over the Node 2i but most people couldn’t justify the extra $6k bc the Node 2i sings so good. 

Ever since NAD started offering components featuring both BluOS and Dirac Live, I've been hoping for the Lenbrook folks to offer an upscale BluOS network player (preferably without a DAC) that was both Roon Ready and featured Dirac Live with either the NAD or BluOS label.
Like a Super Bluesound Node 2i with Dirac Live, with or without a DAC, but definitely with digital outputs.  In fact, I've been looking for anybody that offered such a player that featured Dirac Live that was also Roon Ready. I don't know of any at this time.

Minidsp SHD Studio has Dirac Live and you can use roon with it. They are in the process of getting roon ready certified.

Also upgraded a BlueSound Node 2i with a Chord Qutest (paired with a PrimaLuna Prologue Premium Integrated and Unison Research Max-2 speakers).  Compared this combo in my listening room with the $3500 Naim ND5 XS2 streamer and couldn't tell any significant difference if any at all.  Super happy with my choice.  Also agree that the Node 2i is great bang for the buck.  Enjoying the music!

The streamer in the bluesound is not that great either.  If you budget is up to it, looking into a comparable streamer with you your chord dac will bring more dynamics, openness, clarity...

I am looking at streamers.  Ideas?  Live and learn.  Not sure a stand alone streamer will impact sound that much vs existing bluesound node 2i.  

I’m fairly new to streaming as well. So I have the blue sound node 2i. At first it was hooked up to a new preamp via unbalanced rca’s and streaming over WiFi. It sounded good, not great, and not magical like I expected. So next I invested in connecting via a hard wire, and did so using a fiber optic bridge between it and the router. Big improvement! I then realized I wasn’t using the Vincent sa-t7’s onboard dac. Gotta nice 75 ohm digital coax cable and connected it to my preamp dac. Now I have the magic in spades. Took awhile and some education to get there but it’s worth it!

larry5729

"I really think the Bluesound Node 2i sounds great. I tried adding a DAC, but lost Tidal MQA and the Bluesound playing MQA sounded better. When adding the DAC the bass frequencies fell off and it sounded thin. I wonder if Bluesound increased the price to $3,000 if more audiophiles would buy more of them. Spending more doesn't necessarily sound better. Wonder how many have done a blind test. I can see it if the system is priced out at $100,000"

Wow... 

So with bluesound  dac and coaxial it sounded a lot better?

so now a stand alone dac temptation is enabled