Surely I'm not the only one with the dilemma of living out in the boonies with no audio equipment dealer (other than Walmart) within 100+ miles. How does one choose among the many speakers offered in any given price range without listening to them before buying? The reviews are often skewed by self interest and, in any event, what you hear and what you like is completely subjective and the prosaic descriptions in the reviews mean different thing to different people. After all, you really can't accurately describe in words what someone else might hear. The problem is compounded if you wish to buy "used" from a private party as there often is no right of return, and when there is, the cost of shipping both ways is a significant consideration, especially when looking for floor speakers.
I’m getting ready to order speakers from a liquidator(on the 15th.) ,unheard,using the same build parameters as VolsFan846(Go Gators!).Following these, along with a few additions, led me to speakers that reviewer after reviewer from around the world described as having the "sound"I wanted. It's funny but after studying review after review + several more,all extolling the same virtues across the listening spectrum you covet,a decision not only becomes easy but worry & doubt are suddenly replaced with relief,desire & anticipation. We’ll see if subjective reviews,specs & measurements,along with the 4 build parameters mentioned above can equal sonic happiness.I am VERY optimistic about my chances of building a musically satisfying system & hope to have a successful update in a few weeks.
"
If you buy speakers that have a VERY flat frequency response, good quality drivers, good cross over design in a nice cabinet, you can get away without an audition. Mine are 34 - 20k hz +/- 1.5 db and 29 - 45k +/- 3 db. -- VolsFan846
Agreed! Toole's research has shown this to be true with most people and it certainly is for me. I look at the FR at 0°, 15°, 30° and waterfalls mostly. Polars and distortion graphs are good too ... when you can find them. Haven't been disappointed with this approach yet. I totally ignore subjective reviews and the latest forum-hyped speakers. I've been around long enough to see many forum darlings quickly lose their appeal after the herd anticipation wears off.
However, for HT speakers, accuracy isn't as important to me. It took me a long time to figure out what I wanted there. I almost got caught up on the "dynamics" train, but realized I'm not an SPL guy, and what I like is spaciousness and detail ... like a twig snapping three feet outside and two feet behind the left speaker ... the point being, I wanted to be encapsulated by sound like in the real world, so soundstage became more important. Fortunately I heard just the speakers that could do that in someone's home. I don't yet know how to pick this quality out on a graph. Maybe it can be done, I just don't know how.
Larstusor, that is a good way to start. I think having a speaker that you know and love, makes for an easier way to consider other loudspeakers that you do not have access to audition-when the SAS bites. All the Best- Bob
Discretion being the better part of valor, rather than delve into the unknown I decided to have my KEF 105/3 Reference Series speakers (circa 1990) serviced. The foam surrounds and donuts for the four woofers have been replaced; the crossovers have been recapped; and a bad connection to one of the tweeters has been repaired. The repair tech says they now sound great. I remember how good these speakers used to sound and I hope when I get them back home (soon) I will be well satisfied and not continue to fall prey to "Speaker Acquisition Syndrome" which affects so many of us.
Magnepan MMG and MMG Bass panel (new) Magnepan 3A Counterpoint Clearfield Metropolitans Von Schweikert VR2 and VR4 Magnepan 1.7 Thiel CS2.3 Thiel CS3.5
Quite simply put the direct to consumer offer for the MMG's at $599 was too enticing to pass up. $599 with a one year trade up policy? I took the risk and...thus the 1.7's later on. I love Magnepan.
My curiosity with Von Schweikert compelled me to buy the Metropolitans which, compared to the 1.7's were huge - and heavy, though way more efficient. The size of refrigerators - and not a college dorm refrigerator. Compared to the Maggies they struck me as reserved. Got weary of moving them, or trying to. Good in their own right.
I'll spare everyone the IMHO details on the others mentioned but in general it was my curiousity that guided me. And my budgets which swing throughout the years. I've stuck since with Maggie and Thiel. I've never regretted any purchase, each model had/has its own virtues with my associated gear, Pass Labs, McIntosh, Primare, Audio Research...too many to list here.
Recently I bought a pair of Maggie .7's AFTER auditioning the new 1.7i's - and I'm adding a Rythymik L12 sub to complement them. I still have my Thiel CS3.5's.
Larstusor, thanks for the clarification, if you do know what 'sound' you like, then you are half way there. In that case, I think it would be okay to buy speakers that you have read about and think you may like. As others have said, reviews must be take with a grain of salt. But, with 45 years of experience, I think you will be okay.
Maybe you should start another thread. List the characteristics you are looking for in a speaker, the music you listen to, and the kind of room you listen in. I am sure there will be many suggestions that you can then investigate in detail.
Stringreen, +1 for the Vandys. They have been my Grail speaker for decades. Also, a very +1, for Johnny R at audio connection (a Agon member), he wouldn't steer anyone wrong.
,,just listen to me......Vandersteen speakers. Every one in their price point is excellent for their category. Call John at Audio Connection in New Jersey, and they'll guide you properly (a very large store with lots of brands, up to date knowledge, and they care)
I don't mean to be didactic, but only want you to gain a skill set, before buying speakers based on others reviews.
I'm not a newbie and have been playing around with hi-fi equipment for over 45 years. The nearest "big city" is Atlanta which used to have several high end gear shops. With the advent of the big box stores and mp3 music, the small shops have gone by the way side. I made the trip down there and found a very limited range of speakers to audition. Many of the brands one reads about on this forum and others are not represented by any dealer in the area. Hence the dilemma.
Well, the last two posts show you two different ways to pursue you goal. You can either find a dealer in a large city and make time to audition all the speakers you think you will like, or, you can take a 'best guess' at the sound you like, based on reviews. Should the speakers not turn out to be your 'cuppa', just sell them and keep trying. IMHO, if you are new to hifi/audiophile stereo, I would make an effort to find dealers close to you. Spend time and listen. When you get a sense of what you like, then you can make a more informed decision on speakers you have yet to hear.
I did this in my 20's, and it is something I can honestly say still carries into today. I know what I like and why I like it. Once you have that information, then you can make educated decisions.
I don't mean to be didactic, but only want you to gain a skill set, before buying speakers based on others reviews. In my opinion, it will save you a lot of time, money, and disappointment. Also, you will get to meet other people who love and enjoy listening to music. All the Best Bob
I'm late to the discussion here but wanted to chime in to say, yes, you can buy without audition. I have bought probably 10 pairs of speakers that way. I always make sure I narrow down a list of a few I am interested in after reading reviews and/or the many audio forums out there. I make sure I buy them with the original boxes, packing and manuals and with patience, at a good price. If I find the speakers aren't my cup of tea, I resell them usually for around the price I paid. I have gone through many sets of speaker brands that way. I know this won't work for everyone, but for me, I've had no problems.
Hi, I am not a shill, troll, only wish to share my experience, I would recommend calling Walter at underwood hifi, Bought from him last fall, there was a problem down the road with the piece of gear I purchased, his customer service was beyond A+. I am pretty sure he offers home audition on almost all of his product lines. He also owns Emerald Physics Speakers. Good luck with your quest!
Well, you're not in the boonies. I am pretty sure Atlanta has a few good shops that would make it a day trip. Come on guys, let's give larstusor some help.
Theo1124, you are very fortunate to have found a speaker matching your needs sight unseen. Perhaps having an honest dealer to help you make your decision is also a plus.Larstusor, if you could give us a rough location, maybe we could direct you to a dealer that could help you. Bob
I am new to this hobby. Last year when I was looking for speakers I looked through the reviews and scanned the AUDIOGON, USAM, Ebay. One pair of speakers caught my eye made by an speaker manufacturer that has a very low profile, Source Speaker Technologies. There was not much information available on the speaker I was looking at and their website left a lot to be desired. However the seller was a retired hi end audio dealer. He was very persuasive in describing how great these speakers are. They were almost new and selling for $2200 against a new cost of almost $9k. I bought these unheard. I could have been ripped off but in my beginners good fortune I totally lucked out. These speakers are awesome. I went to AXPONA this year and listened to a hundred great speakers and when I got home and cranked up my system I realized that my speakers sound as good as many great ones I listen to at that show. However if I buy another pair I would never purchase without hearing them first. I can;t count on my good luck striking twice.
I agree, gillatgh, but the OP isn't near any dealers, so he has to rely on reviews. But, I agree, some reviewers are not entirely forthcoming of their relationship with the item being reviewed. But, thanks to the internet, one can get a fairly good idea of the characteristics for a given component.
Buying without audition is not a smart thing to do. As far as using reviews by anyone its good for guidelines but usually the reviewer gets paid by the products they review. So take reviews with a grain of salt. Everyones sonic preferences are unique to themselves so what sounds good to you may not sound so good to someone else. Always audition and if it does not please you move on.
Right now I'm using my 1990's Luxman R-115 receiver (75w/ch), recently cleaned and recapped. I've got a Peachtree Audio Grand Integrated on its way here. Tons of class D power (more than I really need) and a great built in DAC. For sources I have a Musical Fidelity X-Ray CDP and will stream internet radio from an iPad. I accumulated all the equipment (except for the iPad) without audition and based on research and reviews. I've done ok so far but speakers are so variable and subjective that it gives cause for caution.
I haven't heard the PSB, so I can't comment on their sound. My listening area is similar to yours (minus the sloping ceiling), so you probably don't need tons of power-unless you like to listen super loud. (Also, you don't mention your other equipment). As I mentioned before, I think the Zu might suit you. They aren't 'laid back', but very honest and revealing, maybe just your cuppa'. Also, looking at the prices of the X2T show them to be around $650 (I don't see the Synchrony line). If you can budget around $1K+, then you could probably get a nice older floor standing model Zu used. There are a pair of bookshelves for sale on Agon, but I think you would need a sub for the lower frequencies- so better to stay with the floor standers. I own Vandersteen 3a sigs and the Zu Union. Both are very capable, though I listen to the Vandy's most.
I don't have a dedicated sound room. The audio system is in my living room. The room is approximately 25 x 16 with a sloped ceiling that goes from 8 feet to about 12 feet high. I was quite impressed with a set of PSB Imagine small towers. The imaging and detail were excellent (at least in the showroom). I would like to hear their Synchrony model which should more depth and bottom end. I'm not familiar with Zu and will do some research, thanks.
You could try Zu speakers, if you buy new, they have a trial period. They are also relatively low cost and easily powered. Email them, they are very responsive.
You haven't given us the dimensions/specifics of your room- which would help in giving you recommendations. Can I ask what brand of speakers you were considering?
I guess I broke all the rules too. I bought all of my system completely unauditioned. I did do very extensive research on everything prior to purchase and knew exactly what I wanted. I must say that I am quite pleased with my system and will be for some time. I believe you can read forums, reviews and of course the manufacturers website for specifications and get a pretty good sense about the sound characteristics of a piece of equipment. The one thing you can't know however, is how it will sound in your home.
I'm the OP and still looking and learning. I was going to make a 9+ hour round trip to audition a pair of speakers I saw advertised on line. The are beautiful to look out, made of real hardwoods, and fit my decor more than perfectly, but of course, its about the sound. The manufacturer is no longer in business but had a very fine reputation during his run. The reviews raved about the speakers (it seems like they all do) an noted that they were "laid back" rather than "out front" and that they didn't hit you in the face with tone but rather "lured you in". I guess that meant that the speakers were not on the more detailed end of the spectrum. I was still intrigued and seriously contemplating rearranging my schedule to go here those beauties.
Fortunately, I was in the closest big city (Atlanta) for a medical appointment and made time to visit some shops to hear some speakers. It's slim pickin's in that town. When I lived there, many years ago, there were several small, hi-fi shops that handled some high end lines of products. Now, I could only easily find the big box (Best Buys "Magnolia") and one shop that has been there forever. The guys at Magnolia knew a lot less about their equipment than I did; and, they only had the various price point models of B&W's to listen to. They had several other brands on the floor of the "sound room" including Martin Logan, Sonus Faber and Distintive Technology (or something like that). When I asked to A - B some of the others with the B&W's, they told me no can do. None of the others were hooked up!!!! I guess they have a real good margin in the B&W's and don't want to sell anything else.
The other shop had a nice set-up and I auditioned several sets/brands without any sales pressure. They happened to have a set of trade-in speakers from the same manufacturer that made the ones I was focusing on and which were 9+ hours away. The pair at the shop were a 2-way version and I was interested in the bigger brother 3-way systems but figured I could at least hear that manufacturer's "sound". Just as I had read, the speakers were "laid back" and didn't have the brighter detail and sparkle that I prefer. The sales associate said that was the result of the silk dome tweeter. The big brother had a silk dome tweeter (probably the same one) and I realized that this was not the sound I was looking for. This event saved me from a 9+ hour journey to disappointment.
I'm still studying and looking. Many systems for sale that interest me are large floor standing, full range speakers which often are quite heavy and the sellers require "local pick-up" only, or the shipping costs are prohibitive, especially for an opportunity to audition and return if not satisfied. So. in the meantime, I'm sending my old KEF 105/3's to a repair facility to have the surrounds and donuts replaced and crossovers checked. I may just be happy with these once they are back to their original sound which was quite nice really. Thank you for all your advice and sharing your experiences.
You got to hear speakers! the only speakers I ever bought without audition was a $50 a pair of speakers that I bought for a basement workout room. No matter what you've read, remember, think ice cream shop. Lots of different flavors. Not everyone likes the same flavor
Shame on me ,.I did this once spending $17,000.00 ,.!...
It was a turntable made popular by reviews at first then all sorts of praise and accolades here on Audiogon including other popular sites which in the end was nothing but a herd mentality promoting a mediocre over priced turntable for many that love it however can't hear ,....
definite road trip. living in the middle of nowhere is cheap so driving must be far. i'd research local craigslist adds or ebay listings within 100...200 miles around where you can actually drive-in and check-listen.
Hi Larstusor, You're in a spot that plenty have been in...sometimes with the demand on family it is impossible to leave for a couple of days, so I understand that you can't go listen.... Your only other option is to shop and educate yourself as thoroughly as possible, then shop for values in used speakers so that you can re sell without getting burnt so bad. Good luck, Tim
Volsfan, I too spent a lot of time looking at Salk/Murphy speakers. The SS12's were out and looked promising but ran into production problems. Jim was very open and honest as far as the different lines' attributes. Ultimately, what did you decide on and what do you drive them with?
That is a problem (especially for large and heavy speakers for which return shipping can be expensive). In your shoes, I guess I would begin by doing a lot of web-based research (which it sounds like you may have already done, or started doing); then pick a city with a lot of brick-and-mortar audio dealers to visit or vacation in as you can (NYC, LA and Chicago come to mind here) and make the rounds of the stores. (Alternatively, attend one of the big annual audio shows... Rocky Mountain, Chicago, NYC, etc.) to audition many speakers and systems in one place. If neither of those is an option for you, Ihen check out some of the bigger (and well regarded) online retailers such as MusicDirect, Acoustic Sounds, Elusive Disc, and Upscale Audio. Another fav of mine is Galen Carol Audio in San Antonio, Tx. This is by no means an inclusive list... just the online merchants I've had goof interactions with... Best of luck,
If you buy speakers that have a VERY flat frequency response, good quality drivers, good cross over design in a nice cabinet, you can get away without an audition. Mine are 34 - 20k hz +/- 1.5 db and 29 - 45k +/- 3 db.
Hard to go wrong if the response curve is that flat. Wish they were a tad more efficient, but getting the power wasn't that expensive.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy anything from Jim Salk or Dennis Murphy without ever plugging a wire into them.
I didn't know there were so many fellow boony-dwellers in Audiogon! Everything in my listening room was purchased used on Audiogon or other sites, except for my Vinyl Nirvana Thorens long base 125, which I got from Dave himself, along the tonearm and cartridge. I have been doing that since I started, and it's been fun. I have bought my first set of Thiel 2.2's from a store in Lubbock, the others from Don Hamby in Amarillo, all used. I have become willing to meet people half way, from the metroplex or Houston. I have swapped speakers and amps after eating barbeque in Brady, TX. I bought a pair of (huge) Thiel CS5's from a seller in Alabama, and used Craters and Freighters to pack and ship them to my garage, luckily without incident. Go for it. It's all fun.
I guess I am ’old school’ now. The internet has opened things up for audiophiles. ’Back in the olden’ days’, you had to visit shops and spend hours listening (which was fun), now you can review the experiences of others and make an educated guess when buying stereo equipment. What I really wanted to impress upon the OP is that by auditioning equipment, you get a real feel for what sound ’good’ to you and you alone. Sure, you can get a decent sound system by using the reviews of others, but my opinion is that you really need to experience what ’sound’ makes you close your eyes and experience the ’Nirvana’ that comes when a stereo system comes together. (Of course, you’ll always be tweaking it....;) ) Bob
I bought my whole system piece by piece without auditions. BUT I did study for about a year all things audio, primarily on this site. I began to gravitate towards time aligned, crossoverless, high efficiency speakers and balanced fully differential electronics throughout. It paid off in spades. Just decided if I was going to spend that much money I wanted to learn how things worked.
If I waited to listen to speakers in friends' homes I'd be dead 10 times over. Whenever I talk to freinds or people I work with about equipment they look at me like I have 10 heads; or ask me, questions like " hey what do you know about SONOS?". MHO, you can make it work without auditioning and not have to settle, nor have it be an excrutiating expereince
bcgator is spot on. I bought a pair of Snell Type B's in 1993. I can't even remember what source factors contributed to that decision. When they arrived, I set them up and to my horror they sounded terrible! BUT, I was forced to listen to them because I was stuck with them. Over one year, I threw everything at them I could get my hands on from cables to CD players and different positions in the room. What a pay off it was! I've been a Snell fan ever since.
A collection of reviews can be helpful if options are limited. That and try to choose newer equipment in good shape and that's favorable among the masses so turning it over again wont be as much trouble. Youll have to eat shipping fees but its not as painful as getting stuck with something you really didn't want.
Audition at other audiophiles homes til you find speakers you like...then work backwards toward the source components...listening at friends homes....or nearby audio nuts you meet thru Audiogon and other sites.
There a lot variables. Do you already have the electronics and source devise? What kind of expenditure are we talking about? Does your taste run to more of an analytical, resolving type of sound or do you like a warmer sound. What kind of room are we talking about. The larger the expenditure the more I would be inclined to travel to listen.
I'm the exception to the other posters, being in a similar situation where there are no local dealers I've repeatedly purchased without audition, and with the exception of one integrated amp, haven't been disappointed, nor have I found "synergy" to be a problem.
Not saying this is the approach to follow, just saying that haven't personally suffered angst over this.
Great post ejr, I agree. That is why I think the OP should try to visit a high end salon or two, in order to get a feel for what he likes. Reviews and praises from others only go so far when it comes to speakers.
Last year I spent several months in my quest to find a new pair of speakers, in my case I live outside two large metropolitan areas.
To me speaker selection involves the most "personal preference". In my quest, one of the salesmen I encountered asked it I preferred "analytic" or "musical" sounding speakers...I thought about it for a moment, "musical" was my preference. Interesting to ask that?
I rejected a whole bunch of excellent speakers in the process, just didn't "float my boat".
I've had nothing but great experiences, buying on Audiogon. Since you won't be paying "retail", most likely you'll be able to try some new speakers out, if they seem to have enough demand, won't lose so much, if you decide to sell them.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
