Can a better power cable make a difference if NOT plugged directly into an outlet?

@hilde45 

When I bought my AR6, they had I believe 3 different levels of feeder cords for it ranging from the one I have to a very expensive one.  Having said that, I’m using the AC9 SE mkll cord on my Hegel, but have it plugged right into the wall. Mostly because the AC9 is so darn stiff that it kept pulling itself out of the amp when I moved it even a little to reach the AR6.

BTW, I mentioned "even a generic Chinese cable will get you most of the way there".  

Sorry but I forgot to mention that you have to reterminate them.  If you are the kindof guy that does this, you'll be pretty good for cheap.  If not, try ice age cable in MI.  Good power cables at reasonable prices. 

I just realized I gave an incomplete suggestion above and wanted to clear it up.

Here is one if the chinese cables I reterminated lately.  Link to my google photos account.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jGCArhXU6zBnZmBk9

Txp1,

I can't find the leftover cable from my installation,  but did text the electrician on what he used. If memory serves, it was Romex SimPULL 10 AWG.

I’ve had a positive outcome using Shunyata Venom NR power cables into their power distributor.

I’ve also installed a whole house surge protector to allow me to plug amps into the wall. I didn’t notice a difference and use the power conditioner because of its mechanical breaker.

Good luck in your quest- I am surprised about what impacts what and why in so many ways!

Come on Jerry g. You are reporting all my posts my man? So much for the free speech you dudes proclaim. Unless it’s Bud Light, Target, Disney, LA Dodgers, or all books of course 🤯

@carlsbad2 I do believe in upgrading cables, just not mortgaging the future to buy them. 

@recklesskelly size does matter (in this case).  going to a 10 awg power cable, even a generic one from china, will get you most of the way there.

@secretguy the cable from your transformer to your home is generally at lest 4 awg copper but usually 2, 1 or even 1/0 gauge.  What do you propose upgrading it to?  It is several times larger than anything we plan to run to our system.  Sometimes it is aluminum but it is oversized to make up for the difference in conductivity.

@carlsbad2 That is about what most manufacturers send with their amplifiers. Forever AVA you did not have an option for changing out their PC it was hard wired in.  I do believe in a better PC just not mortgaging my house for a cable. 

So do those in this thread who think power cables make no difference use 18 gauge lampcord to power their amps?

https://www.cablesandkits.com/power/power-cords/nema-5-15p/18-awg-6-ft-black/pro-1748/?utm_campaign=(ROI)+Smart+Shopping+-+Big+4+-+Ethernet&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&hsa_kw=&hsa_acc=1821731459&hsa_grp=&hsa_ad=&hsa_mt=&hsa_ver=3&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_tgt=&hsa_cam=18188851911&hsa_src=x&gad=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwscGjBhAXEiwAswQqNAt7eT-u3zIERyTl3pAfvgZMAUjiNBLeCo-bgtDzf2UkBs7EUm-VwRoCPZsQAvD_BwE

You are OBVIOUSLY and CLEARLY the one and only deranged Jerry

Not sure whether this is because of your alleged stroke six usernames ago, or whatever, but you definitely need mental and professional, and medical help. I sincerely wish you a long, multiple months long and healthy life. Anger management can potentially help

@thyname I am not this Jerry, and this is getting very tiresome. Also if you had one ounce of intelligence, deductive reasoning or critical thinking skills you would have seen I was quoting another post that had since been deleted.  That was the gist of my remark, looking at your history in the archives you never fail to get your little political shots in, I was simply having fun with the other guys post.

Make Audio Great Again?

You rage infused MAGA dudes always find a way, don’t you Jerry?

Make Audio Great Again?

I am not a cable denier and I have Transparent Audio mid level cables through out my system the Premium and XL's and a smattering of other brands like Cardas and Belden. 

Well, then there are the MAGA nutjobs...

Love what the folks at Schiit say about Power Cords and IC.

6 Power Inlet
Plug the end of the supplied IEC cord in
here. You can also use fancy audiophile
types, but they won’t really do anything—
what about the thousands of feet of crap
copper cables in your walls, huh?

Beyond Just Technology: SuperUltraHyperTechnology
PYST cables are made from only the finest 6-nines Unobtanium™ alloy, molecularly assembled in our Alternate Universe™ reality-distortion tesseract field , using a secret geometry reverse-engineered from crashed UFOs, painstakingly smuggled out of Area 51 by deep-cover operatives. Performance is further enhanced by the use of a QuantConnect™ quantum-entangled pair of transmission interfaces, held at absolute zero by our exclusive Stasis Field™ technology. The cables are then wrapped in NanoAeroCap™, a nanotechnology-enabled aerogel anti-capacitance insulation system, featuring Fractal Interleaved Geometry™ to create negative inductance for maximum audio transmission quality.
 
Or, er, well . . . again, no. These are nice, high-quality cables, with solid, reliable connectors. That’s it. Hope you like them!

Txp1,

i’m out of town, and will fly home in a few hours….I’ll look then, just can’t remember off the top of my head

@vthokie83   When you installed your dedicated lines did you use s special audiophile wire?
 

 I installed two dedicated home run 10 gauge lines 15 years ago and the electrician used 10 ga. THHN (jacketed spiral wound aluminum clad copper).  The lines are in an aluminum conduit per code because they run along a beam in the garage, i.e., not in a wall until they enter the listening room.   I also installed two FIM Gold outlets for the dedicated lines.  I’ve often wondered if solid core ROMEX or an audiophile wire would improve the sound.

Unfortunately the problems with your AC power is likely outside of your control. The power companies don't care how much interference or DC there is coming from their mains into your house. In a lot of cases they don't even maintain a solid 120 volts. I am a believer in power conditioners and use an Equi=Core 1800 MKIII, but ANY decent power conditioner is better than none. Any power cable that is capable of carrying more current is better than the typical 16 gauge lamp cord. But a power cord can only help from the socket downstream and unfortunately a lot of our power issues are upstream. A dedicated 20 amp circuit can be a big help. Just my opinion.

The way I see it, if you spend a bunch on cables it HAS to sound better right?

That's effectively claiming that everyone is subject to the fallacy of sunk costs. I think that's false.

Here's what I take as "true enough" on this issue:

Becoming an "experienced" audiophile requires

• accepting the idea that experiments do not have predetermined outcomes
• rejecting the idea that price is sufficient to make something sound good
• accepting the idea that experiments lead to mistakes from time to time and waste money
• accepting the idea that an experiment can yield no outcome or a worse outcome
• accepting the idea that one's system -- or one's system setup or power -- will be obstacles to an experiment capable of yielding audible results

So, yes -- one has to "try and see" but if one does not grasp the basic principles above, then one is actually just guessing. Perhaps that's the hardest pill to swallow around here -- that people claim to "try things out" to avoid wasting their money, but they do such a terrible job at controlling the variables that in order to save face (with themselves!) they find themselves pretending (to themselves and then to others, which just helps with the self delusion) that they hear something when they don't. An experienced audiophile would try to steer around that whole mess and just take their lumps.

The way I see it, if you spend a bunch on cables it HAS to sound better right?

A better way to think of this is that good power cables don't improve sound.  Bad power cables degrade sound.  an inadequate power cable won't support short (picosecond) bursts of high current needed for fast dynamics and sharp bass. 

Jerry

Yes that is true, and it is all subject to bias for sure. I have never been one to buy into the super expensive cables. I am more a mid tier guy. 

@lemonhaze Thanks for reaffirming. I'll take a look. When I see hyperbole or exaggeration, my hackles are raised so your additional credence is helpful.

@recklesskelly Yes, "try it out" is good advice. It does not prevent confirmation bias, of course.

The age old debate. The only way to find out is try it, if you can not tell the difference then send it back. 
 

@hilde45,  I find Jay's reviews to be accurate based on what he's said about some of the cables in his list that I've heard.

He's done similar with interconnects and same thing, accurate according to the few I've tried. The comments at the end of his reviews are a fun read with the usual deniers demanding measurements and proof.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/duelund-conversion-to-diy-helix-geometry-cabling

This link takes you to 17 pages of cable DIY with many of the members you will, I am sure, recognise. The man responsible for these DIY recipies is williewonka who has detailed instructions on how to build them. This is no just stick some plugs on some off the reel cable type of DIY. All info needed is in contained in the above and with much input from builders and their results.

OCC Copper and OCC silver is used which has a coiled (helix) which acts as a Faraday cage inhibiting EMI/RFI interference. I do not use a shield which I can hear has an effect on dynamics and imparts a trace of grayness to the sound. Squires says his cables cause noise because they are tangled together or some such. Well keep them tidy and you may not need screens and shields.

I have zero problems with cable crosstalk. The first cable I built, an interconnect, easily displaced my long time favourite, a Van den Hul Orchid. I was mightily impressed from plug in with no burn-in time. It excelled at everything with clarity, dynamics, bass and openness and clean clean clean. Guitar and piano WOW.

I encourage you to read the thread from the beginning. I would happily build for you but as I live in Ireland it would be expensive. Most components are from USA so postage becomes unmanageable. You will find info on this in the thread.

To be clear I've not yet built Power Cables but have what's needed and will when I find the time. This is serious performance.

@lemonhaze I don’t have DIY skills but I know someone who does. Thank you for the link!

I will admit, though, that the first paragraph really raised some suspicions:

"Once I’ve realized how a single cable could make or break a HiFi system – I went down the rabbit hole. It made the difference between enjoying a system – and being annoyed with it."

Clearly, this claim must be hyperbole -- and in the first paragraph. I will suspend judgment as best I can, but you can appreciate how implausible it is.

Soon after, we see this claim:

"At this point, I’m sure we could all agree that different power cords sound different. Even among generic cords."

The author is "sure" of this as a general fact, not considering the dozens of variables involved? And not only that, this surety applies, too, to generic cords? Will still suspend judgment -- largely out of my respect for your posts, Lemonhaze, but this author is straining already strained credulity and we’re still just at the beginning of the article.

I'll just note that if there is a "fact" we can count on, it's that anyone who has gone down a "rabbit hole" investigating 1000 power cords will, given that time and money investment, have a severe case of cognitive dissonance if not outright regret if they do not come out of the experience with concrete and significant conclusions. We see this with all kinds of other belief systems. It's the "sunk costs" fallacy. It takes courage to admit that one has gone down a rabbit hole that was really just a waste of time. It's embarrassing to oneself and to admit to others. But sometimes, the truth hurts. That pain makes perhaps the crucial difference between science and confirmation bias.

Ok, needed to get that off my chest. Again -- just so I do not commit the fallacy of "lack of charity" I am suspending judgment and going back to the article.

@hilde45, How are your DIY skills?  I may have some exciting news but requires DIY.

This link takes you to an interesting review of a bunch of great PCs :

https://audiobacon.net/2019/08/17/27-audiophile-power-cables-reviewed/

Perhaps look for some of those mentioned that are available used. Will be well run-in.

@stuartk Noiice! 😂

@stuartk 

🤣👍

I use Shunyata Alpha v.2 for power. XC from wall, dedicated 20amp Oyaide R1 to a Denali 6000S V.2 NR for amp and streamer, Shunyata Delta EF from Sub to wall with a Shunyata Defender. Also an AudioQuest NRG-Z2 for the DAC power supply

@hilde45 

'Those who say power cables never matter, please go watch a cute cat video instead of posting here, please".

You mean, like Cat 6, 7 ?

Why no mention of Audience’s F5 cord? It’s above F3 and below Studio One and is $650.

I’ve tried no Audience cords yet. However, I recently sought cord advice from a dealer who carries all of the gear I use, most of which I purchased from him.

After trying all manner of cord combinations within the Audience line on my exact rig—both at his shop and in many customers’ homes, he recommends an F5 for the Lyngdorf 3400, because he has found that going to a Studio One or higher was not particularly fruitful on the 3400. However, on the Zenith Mk 3, he loves the Studio One.

I’ll bring both cords in for a trial sometime this year. And likely 2-3 other brands to have a shoot-out.

He does not put amps into conditioners, per se.  He uses the Audience box that goes into the duplex and costs about $1200 (I think).  For those concerned about surge protection, he is a big fan of whole-house, which I am looking into.

Good plan. It will be very nice on your DAC as well.

@audphile1 

All jokes aside, going from one sub-$200 cable to another will get you very little ROI if any at all.

Thanks. That's what I figured, and why I felt that the nice advice I got from Audience directly was really just a way to get me into their products but not really likely to change much about what I was hearing. I'm looking at used prices for the model you mentioned, and it's probably something I could do.

Of course, if I aim to put these on the mono blocks, the cost doubles, if I can find two of them.

Perhaps just get one and either try it on my solid state stereo amp? Or on an upstream component, such as the DAC?

Hahaha. 
All jokes aside, going from one sub-$200 cable to another will get you very little ROI if any at all. I’d go for a used Audience AU24se power cord. StudioOne is a replacement for it that uses different connectors. The older se is a great cable. No need to spend $1500. 
 

@audphile1 You skip over the $180 cable and go for the $1500 cable. I want to party with you -- no stops on this train. This is the Express! ;-)

F3 is ok. I would skip over it though and go to StudioOne. 

@hilde45 : did you explain to John what power cords you already have? Knowing the power conditioner you have, and I am assuming you conveyed this to John, I am not surprised by his suggestion. Logical considering the price of your Audience existing gear. 

John from Audience is recommending the F3 power cord to start with. It's about the same price as the Pangea. Perhaps it's too much of a lateral move. Hmmm. Into the brambles I go!

I use a Transparent power isolator, which is sort of like a conditioner,only better as is it doesn’t restrict anything.

And I use quality power cables from transparent. 
 

This all means I'm spending about $10,000 for purposes of elegantly transferring electrons from the wall socket to my equipment.

And I also have a 10 gauge dedicated outlet. 

I don’t like cats.

@hilde45 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️. I thought the “mold” part was a typo, or autocorrect at work, meaning “world” instead. 🤦‍♂️. My bad. Bottom line is some experimenting you have to do. As long it’s fun, not a chore, it’s always good to experiment. It sounds to me you are in the right path. Best of luck, and please keep everyone updated. Most are good folks here, willing to share and help with their experiences

@thyname It's a relatively inexpensive wireMOLD strip, not wireworld.

Almarg was an electrical engineer and a Ph.D. and thought this was enough for his system -- given his components, power in his area, etc. 

Still, worth trying.

Continued thanks to others for weigh in's and affirmations of my planned process.

@hilde45 :

My Audience plugs directly into the wall. There is no place to insert a cord, there. The wiremold strip plugs into the audience and then serves everything.

Sorry about that, I was not familiar with your Audience conditioner, I just looked it up. It hooks up directly attached to the wall outlet, no power cord needed.

In addition to Audience power cords, you may also want to try Wireworld power cords, Electra and up. There may be good synergy with your Wireworld power strip. Wireworld power cords claim to be conditioning power cords, so probably plugged to your Wireworld strip, which goes directly to the wall, may be a good starting point to experiment. They recommend 2 meter lengths (or more) for best results

+1 on rhodium plating...took some getting use to.The burn in time is crucial.Once the flip flop is done.The tone is clean, no glare.Been gold guy forever and i think a  mix is more musical

@hilde45 I have used several different Audience power cables over the years. Starting with their original AU24 powerChord. Excellent cables that work well on DACs (medium power AU24se) and amps (high power AU24se). I was not as impressed with their lower end Forte F3 though.

I like your plan to step up significantly. That should make the difference more obvious. 

hilde45,

That sounds like a very thoughtful plan, my best to you.

Power cables do not make a differrence.

Until you plug it in and turn on your components =D