Can you recommend Jazz for some one that doesn't like Jazz?
Let me explain, I have tried to like jazz for over 30 years. I rarely find something I like. To me it sounds too disjointed, like everyone is trying to out do the others and they are all playing a different song. I know there has to be some good instrumental smooth jazz artists I am missing. If you have any suggestions of whom to try let me know. Some that are on my Jazz playlist is Pat Metheny-"It's for you" Bill Frisell _"Heard it through the grapevine" Holly Cole, George Benson... for an example of things I do like.
I'd love to have a 100 song Jazz playlist. So what'ch got for me?
Thanks
Got it. I think I’m the one who owes you an apology for jumping to conclusions! BTW, I enjoy lyrical Jazz, too. As an example, as I type this, I’m basking in the lyrical beauty of Mr. Stan Getz. The album is "Bossas and Ballads". I’ve had the same experience. People have said "you actually like this?" and "It sounds like they’re playing two or three songs at once". Clearly, not all music is for everyone but which factors come into play in any given case can be difficult to pin down.
|
I have friends who feel similar, never liked jazz. I have an extensive amount of jazz LPs and CDs in my collection and have enjoyed almost every new discovery, new and old. I have tried throughout the years to introduce my friends to jazz artists and recordings that might change their minds, even the most mainstream, never could. We all once went to a performance at the Jazz Standard in NYC a few years ago. At the end I turned to them and said " That was thrilling". They both said, "I hated it!". Different strokes. |
@stuartk I didn't mean it that lyricism is an exception in jazz. It's just my preference, so I passed some recommendations on. The "but" Wes Montgomery, probably should remove the "but". I generally write off the top of my head, not a lot of editing. Sorry about that. |
Yes, the Dead’s jazz influences don’t show up as consistently as with the ABB, probably because their music encompasses a lot more different musical styles and genres. But you can certainly hear it in songs like Eyes of the World, Bird Song, Crazy Fingers, and some versions of Dark Star. And the band would swing a lot more when Kreutzmann was the sole drummer for a few years in the early 70s. Garcia played a lot more in the jazz vein with his own bands, especially with Merl Saunders and Howard Wales. He did some great versions of My Favorite Things with Merl. And of course, you also have Jazz Is Dead, which showed how many Dead songs could be adapted and played more 'jazzily' if that's a word. |
Diana Krall's music is excellent. Wes Montgomery's guitar playing is jazz, but he's very lyrical, Cal Collins is lyrical and excellent, Joe Pass, Wendell Jones Trio, Frank Vincent. For Brazilian, Susana Baca or anyone who does Antonio Carlos Jobim's music. If you like smooth jazz try some Peter White, Larry Carlton, Earl Klugh, Kenny G. There are so many jazz artists who are lyrical as well as jazz oriented. |
Not really, if you know the melody. It’s not like I’m making it up myself, which is how I define scatting -- improvisation in the moment, when a singer utilizes their voice like a horn to create new melodic lines. Yes -- I’m aware of what you state about the Dead. It could be said that Garcia’s awareness and utilization of chord tones in his soloing was more akin to how a Jazz player would solo, as opposed to the more typical (For Rock) approach of overlaying a scale or two over a progression. (The Son’s Terry Haggerty was another). I’m a huge fan of Weir’s playing and know about his admiration for Tyner. The thing is, for me, the Dead don’t sound much like Jazz. Much of their music is very major-sounding, as opposed to dominant-sounding. They may have been as influenced by Jazz as the Allman Brothers, but to my ear, the sound of Jazz is much more evident in the music of the Allmans -- not only harmonically, but rhythmically. The Allmans swung! Nevertheless, the Dead’s improvisatory approach definitely helped open me up to Jazz. However, when I think about it, it was actually Stevie Wonder who probably had greatest influence in this regard -- particularly "Innervisions". That really opened my ears, not only in terms of listening, but it made me want to expand my chordal knowledge and understanding on the guitar. I began trying to transpose his piano chords to guitar, which in turn made me realize many of the guitar chords in the Innervisions "songbook" I’d bought were inaccurate. But I digress.
Your insertion of "but" makes it sound as though lyricism is a rare exception in Jazz. Not to my ear! |
It sounds like what you like is composition, through-composition. Nothing wrong with that. The most extreme version of the jazz you are not into as much would be free jazz, starting, say, at the beginning of the 60s. But there are many jazz composers who incorporate the shift to modal progressions (as opposed to standard blues progressions, pentatonic scales, etc) in the 1950s. Try the collaborations between Miles Davis and Gil Evans (Porgy and Bess; Sketches of Spain), Evans' Out of the Cool, Henry Mancini, Quincy Jones, Oliver Nelson (Blues and the Abstract Truth), or Lalo Schiffrin. I wouldn't turn my nose up at John Barry's early James Bond soundtracks either. Glad you are exploring Wes Montgomery. Although firmly in blues traditions, Jimmie Smith is a genius improviser/composer, and his collaborations with Wes are amazing. In my opinion, exploring that golden age of the late 50s, early 60s, on the cusp of the turn to free jazz and fusion, will provide some great entry points. Then you can stretch from there into the records of Miles Davis' second group: ESP, Sorcerer, Miles Smiles, etc. and on from there. Enjoy! ps - Jeff Parker is a genius. Check out Isotope 217's _The Unstable Molecule_ from the 1990s. |
Very melodic jazz/blues artist that I love is Gene Harris. He was a fantastic pianist with his own style and his Quartet recordings often had Ray Brown on bass and Jeff Hamilton on drums. He also recorded several Big Band albums in the style of Count Basie. Diana Krall is a modern sultry pianist/vocalist that has a very large audience appeal. For contemporary "cool jazz" I recommend the Rippingtons, Peter White, Richard Elliot and David Benoit. |
I agree with onhwy61. You say it all in your title. There's so much good music out there If you've been trying for 30 years and you just don't get it, why bother. onhwy61 is right, It's not like anything is going to change. I don't think one day you will proclaim OH, now I get it. Listen to what you like, don't force yourself to like a genre you think your "supposed" to like. Isn't that the point. |
@fthompson251 I have a few recommendations for you. Traditional Jazz Albums: 1. Kind of Blue by Miles Davis 2. Earfood by Roy Hargrove 3. Maiden Voyage by Herbie Hancock 4. Trilogy by Chick Corea Trio 5. LaFaro by Brian Bromberg Contemporary Jazz Albums: 1. Ashes to Ashes by Joe Sample 2. Elixir by Fourplay 3. Givin’ It Up by George Benson & Al Jarreau 4. Tenderness (Live) by Al Jarreau 5. We Live Here by Pat Metheny Group |
I also was not into jazz until my late 50’s although there were a few things I like and listed to when I was in college. I would definitely recommend Paul Desmond - Dave Brubeck “Duets”. I would add to that, Gerry Mulligan, “Night Lights”, Mary Lou Williams, “Free Spirits”, Miles Davis, “Kind of Blue”, Keith Jarrett”The Melody at Night” and “The Koln Concert”, and finally, the LA 4, “Pavane pour un enfant défunt” (if you can find this record, get it and listen to the entire album of a really good system. Caution, you may end up hopelessly addicted to jazz and the audiophile syndrome! Enjoy the ride! |
It's been mentioned several times, worth a mention again- must be at the top of the list for "jazz for the beginners" due to the rigid timing structure and sax melody Take Five- Brubeck You must be familiar with it already @fthompson251 ? What are your thoughts of this? Don't worry, you won't ruffle my feathers :) |
@fthompson251 if you’re into smooth jazz I’ve got a good one. Gato Barbieri had a plethora of jazz albums from 1975. His best selling was titled Caliente. It was a hot album. Here’s his take on a well known Santana tune Europa. https://youtu.be/FIRI6CvtO6o?si=negkZkW-p-vtPxLd and a Marvin Game tune I Want You |
I think those of us who play instruments have a much more developed ear for music in general. I agree that this can be a big help. Agreed. Wayne Shorter’s Blue Note recordings were in fact my first non-fusion Jazz record purchases. Believe it or not, I bought them because of the cool cover art! Then I played them and fell in love. Those Shorter albums are still favorites of mine. And, his very first Blue Note "Night Dreamer" is perhaps the most accessible, because the heads are so simple and easily hummable. FYI: Jaimo PLAYED with James Brown ! ! ! In the liner notes of one of the "Kind of Blue" reissues (can’t keep ’em all straight) there are quotes from Duane Allman about his love for Miles. He loved Coltrane, too. In high school, we used to stay up all night listening to music and the Fillmore album was in heavy rotation. I can still sing along to long stretches of the solos on Whippin’ Post and Elizabeth Reed. That music is deeply embedded in my brain! |
@fthompson251 When someone is not the greatest composer (just doesn't have it in his head, it takes some smarts, y'know), all he can do is try and showcase what a instrument specialist he is. It's not unique to Jazz. Take for example two of the most talented guitar players in the world today, Joe Satriani (also a phenomenal composer), Steve Vai (just an instrument specialist and that's about it, meh). Once upon a time (a long time ago) when i was a student in college, my part time job was being the cheap pianist on hire for the dance department. I would observe the cheerleader greek types and the more artistic types that showed up in the ballet, modern, jazz, etc classes. Both categories could have the same physical aptitude, i.e., you give them a choreography and they can execute it.... but, ask the cheerleaders to choreograph something of their own, chop chop, it just didn't show up in their heads, the aptitude isn't there, y'know, it takes some smarts. The other category, the ones with some smarts and true artistic muse are the ones who may end up in chicago ballet, etc. I don't like jazz either. But, umm, try a couple of these tracks from this Scandinavian guy and pretend its not jazz perhaps, keep the subwoofer on... Sven Wunder - Lunar Distance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISxqrcI7mI Sven Wunder - Sundown https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdNBkFKfbA8 If it didn't work, just move on to indie rock or a wind ensemble or something else. You don't have to say you love jazz for extra audiophile street cred (or something, y'know). If ya don't like it, ya don't like it.... there are plenty of genres out there.
|
Watch the Ken Burns series, "Jazz" on PBS. That may go a long way in clarifying your understanding of jazz. My mom took me to hear Armstrong when I was 10 (1951), and he sold me on jazz immediately. His Hot 5 and Hot 7 records helped define the direction of jazz (and, to a degree, pop and rock, and even Broadway) for decades. Listen to those recordings a number of times, and pick out a different instrument to follow each time you listen. Finally, take in the numbers as a whole. Armstrong said they did not improvise--everything they did was planned--variations on themes, Also, pick up the Willie Humphrey performance of "My Blue Heaven" on YouTube. His extended clarinet solo there is a model of elegance. For utter abandon, find the YouTube recording, "Ice Cream," by the December Band in 1965. John Handy's extended sax solo in the middle of the piece will have you shaking your head just as a few members of the band were doing. For ancient history, try "High Society," Picou-1959 and hear a very old Alphonse Picou do his turn of the 20th-century variation on that old college fight song march. In many modern performances of this song, the clarinetist will play Picou's variation, and then present his/her own take. Another bit of history--one of the first multi-track recordings. In 1941, Sidney Bechet played all 5 instrumental parts in "Sheik of Araby" by recording one part, then accompanying that with a second part, then those two with a third, etc. Finally, pick up a few of Tuba Skinny's long sessions on YouTube, and if you get a chance, hear them live. Their vocalist, Erika Lewis, will make you cry. They are preserving traditional jazz as well as any group in the world. |
@coltrane1 Speaking of things Southern, The Crusaders, Southern Comfort https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfJndz0utgOP3AovkMj0ycEuOptoTOzGf |
Jazz isn’t for everyone. Which is why so few in America purchase it. I believe that’s because most haven’t developed an ear to appreciate it. And yes, it helps if you’ve played an instrument to give you greater technical understanding. However, there are many artists you’d probably truly enjoy if you heard them. I prefer, sax, trumpet, piano, guitar, the vibes. I play piano, flugelhorn, and guitar. But you don’t have to be a jazz nerd like myself to develop an appreciation for it. That’s what you’re striving to do. Try these: The Crusaders - Free as The Wind album, from 1976 and their Live at the Roxy album, from 1975. That’s easy listening enough. As been said, any Wes Montgomery CTI album, especially Bumpin and Bumpin on Sunset. Miles Davis’ album Working with the Quintet, a classic album from 1955 and its beautiful ballad It Never Entered My Mind is a show stopper. In fact it was that album that got him signed to Columbia Records as a comeback musician after a stint with drugs. I don’t judge anyone for we as a society have a huge problem with alcohol addiction. Dianna Krall, a pianist and singer has a huge following. I’m more impressed with her early work from the 90’s to 2005. That’s a good start. But don’t give up on the genre. You simply haven’t listened to what appeals to you yet. And you won’t know until you listen a lot. That’s what most of us have done for many decades. Personally, I grew up on jazz, soul, and all of the 60’s popular music because that’s either what was on the radio or played at home by my parents. Enjoy the journey. |
It took me a long time to develop an ear for more esoteric jazz. My thing is the era after jazz died, and popular music (Doors, Hendrix, Cream, etc.) became the market. If I wanted to introduce somebody to jazz in an incremental way (there are so many different forms), I'd start with Oliver Nelson's The Blues and the Abstract Truth. It is every bit as important, in my estimation, as Kind of Blue, but doesn't get the level of accolades that the Miles record does. I'm a huge fan of anything under the rubric of "spiritual" or "soul" jazz, but a lot of those records have gotten to be collectible and expensive. There is a remaster of Dream Queen that Bernie G. cut that is cheap and allegedly from the tape- the OG is a 4 figure record- it's lo-fi lounge music, but the title track is killer. Likewise, the track "Turiya and Ramakrishna" on Alice Coltrane's Ptah, the El Daoud, is stunning. The reissue is pulled from a digitized file, the OGs command beaucoup today. If you like something fairly straightforward, try Art Pepper Today- a late record in his short life- the track Patricia, which was released three times, includes Cecil McBee, Roy Haynes and Stanley Cowell. Stunning performance, and the copy I have, an early Japanese pressing is quiet and extremely good sounding. I tend to go for small and private label jazz that is more obscure, but it took time for me to get to this-- it is a process of learning, and being accustomed to sounds that may at first seem cacophonous. Exposure allows you to develop an ear for this- one of the least popular Pharoah Sanders' releases-- self titled, on in the India Navigation label, did not sell well at the time, but OGs now command big money. It was reissued a couple years ago. To me, a lot of modern post-bop is a process of exploration. There's a lot of records out there. You just have to develop an ear for it and get engaged in the process of exploration. It's quite fun, though it has gotten expensive on vinyl. |
@stuartk Hold up! I’m a southern rock and roll freak! The Allman Brothers Whipping Post! With two drummers in the band?! Similar to James Brown’s band! Come on now! And dare I say Lynyrd Skynyrd, Mother’s Finest!? And I had forgotten about Gato's Flying Dutchman label releases, thanks!
|
There have been several suggestions, including my own, for Brubeck's "Time Out" album which has the fantastic "Take Five" track. I do agree that there are many Benny Goodman albums that display terrific music making and virtuosic playing. I have some original six-eye Columbia stereo recordings from the late 1950's and early 1960's of Benny Goodman that are among the finest recordings that I have in terms of sound quality. I think there may have been some suggestion that certain types of jazz recordings are not sophisticated or demanding enough to be included in suggestions. I don't think that is the case. I often listen to simple, tuneful music that others would call easy listening. So what if it is easy listening if it is simply beautiful? In that category. I would suggest recordings by the Tord Gustavsen Trio. These ECM recordings have the benefit of that label's consistently good engineering. I would also suggest that one look for recordings of the pianist Geoffrey Keezer. |
Dunno that I'm any more eloquent than you on the topic of Jazz but thanks for your kind words. My first exposure to Gato was something similar... and so, I was quite surprised by what I heard when the needle dropped on the first Flying Dutchman release I'd gotten my hands on! I do enjoy his note choices/melodic sense. It's just that "edge" that gets to me. But as I've grown older, my tolerance for such things has diminished. When I was young, it was the more "outside" the better. Now, I prefer more consonance. Life is "dissonant" enough! I suspect my transition into Jazz was made easier, having spent so much time listening to the Dead and the Allman Brothers.
|
First off let me say thank you to @larryi for suggesting to us here to check out Gato. I try to give comments with thankfulness in my intentions when I post here. Someone told me long ago that, ’someone’s dog can be another’s hit’. And that same person told me there are only two types of music, ’good and bad’. My first ever Gato Barbieri ’album’ I bought was Caliente! He did a cover of Marvin Gaye’s I want you and I’ve been a fan ever since. Fast forward, in my quest to learn Portuguese I discovered more about his music. @stuartk you have introduced me (us) to more music than I can count, and I appreciate you for that. You also take to the time to write about said artist’s in a way that shows you are also a wordsmith and it is enjoyable to read your posts. Along with that, your wit shines through and now and then you make me/us chuckle and it’s just so darn refreshing as I know you mean no harm, no foul. |
| Post removed |
Well, I like "Complete Communion" with Don Cherry. However, the following displays his "signature" abrasive edge that (contrary to my earlier characterization) is not limited to the upper register of the horn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyszt16CjNo I’m fine with players who vary the texture of their tone. I simply find unrelieved abrasiveness fatiguing. It’s like a knife with a burr on the blade that "snags" everything it touches.
|
@fthompson251 Try Ray Brown trio - Soular Energy. |
@mksun If you like some Stan Getz infused Bossa Nova check this out on youtube. I think you’re gonna dig this. Tamba 4: Samba Blim ℗ 1968 The Verve Music Group - CTI Division of UMG Recordings, Inc. Released on: 1968-01-01 Composer Lyricist: Orlan Divo Composer Lyricist: Helton Menezes
@stuartk Although I’ve never quite heard of Gato Barbieri’s playing described in such a way... Stu, when I read this, I bust out laughing! |
Jazz covers a lot of different types. I suggest you listen to WDCD.org to get a taste of what you may enjoy. They play a lot of excellent jazz and cover most types. That's how I got into Jazz. You may be surprised what you hear. They also play the blues. They don't play the same play list either, you'll hear different stuff every day. Also some of the DJ's are Jazz musicians themselves. WDCB is a really good place to hear Jazz.... |
Hello, I have not read the whole exchange, but I'll give you a fine recommendation: subscribe to JazzRadio.com. There are 45 stations with all kinds of different jazz genres, and you can always find something you like. There is a free program, but subscription to their highest resolution MP3 cost only $9 per month. Music is very good, and it sounds very good. I love it. I hope this helps
|
I was not at all scolding and was not directing that statement to ANY suggestion. I was merely pointing out how hard it is to predict reactions to any piece of music or artist. The example I gave was of someone whose music seems universally likable, at least to me, yet others would disagree. That is why threads like this are helpful—a wide selection of music is suggested. |
I don't see a lot of feathers getting ruffled, certainly not for this forum, aka Angry Birds. People get worked up about jazz! Two quick things: first, it's okay not to like jazz, not to like Miles or Bird, not to like rainbows or puppies. Second, my advice would be Radio Swiss Jazz, if you have internet radio. It's easy listening but legit; lots of beat-steady tunes, some swing, good vocals, and nothing too demanding. (Third: Monk Alone in San Francisco.) |
