I wouldn't keep a dog that has 'bite'.
There seem to be quite a few here that like an edge that exaggerates the original performance. They want more excitement than the musicians and their instruments were able to give. A caricature, even, of the music. Where does it end?
Not for me. Certainly we need a clearly defined leading edge but anything more than what we hear in the live sound is distortion and therefore undesirable.
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Good point on the use of close mic recording bringing about sounds not normally heard from a distance when not mic'd and amplified.
I like the speed of quick transients and a sealed ribbon tweeter and two 4.5" mid/woofers yield superb PRAT to me, as well as digging deep due to cabinet design and port loading.
When listening becomes painful I wonder what purpose it serves. Bite perhaps is best expressed with brassy instruments in my mind. A little might be realistic. I don't need zing. I want speed and great tonality.
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So what i'm hearing for the "pro-biting" camp is you like the zing, even though it doesn't occur in real music listening?
For instance, close mic recording is bringing information about instruments we'd never hear in listening to un-amplified music.
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I love the jump factor !
Bass plucking on higher pitch notes is when I get it.
I know it's the current pushed by my krell ksa amp.
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One primary reason I left Maggies behind, for Clayton Shaw's wares: they never reproduced the, "bite" (and attendant goosebumps), I knew existed and missed in many electric guitar solos.
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I had a recording studio in my house for 10 years and I recorded a fair bit of acoustic music including guitar, accordion, violin, brass, drums, taiko drums, and various percussion instruments. I can tell you from personal experience that acoustic instruments, especially when close-mic'd, have far more aggressive transients, or "bite" in person than they have on recordings. Virtually every recording engineer uses compression to tame these transients because they would be unpleasant if if not compressed.
If you are in a live music venue then, indeed, the transients are tame because you are so far away from the instruments. It's similar with recording - as you move the mic away from the instruments the transients decline.
I have never called it "bite" but my speakers and amp (Thiel CS6, Krell KSA 300S) produce transients very well and when I play a recording that has hot transients I sometimes jump in my seat. I wouldn't have it any other way. Apparently I've gotten used to it because this summer at the Pacific Audio Fest I heard several megabuck systems that didn't sound as dynamic as mine. I came home, fired up my system and went, "Yeaaah.."
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So many variables to consider here; not sure I interpret "bite" correctly but if the question is realistic vs. engaging then you could find an endless list of speakers claiming to be one or the other.
First look at your room (Getbettersound.com) then evaluate your equipment and speakers.
What I found in my 2 channel music system was my B&W 603-S2s were less bright (more neutral sounding) when not toed in and without bottom stand supports. But, then I replaced them with Dynaudio Contour 20s (much higher price than entry level B&Ws) and magic! Realistic natural sound with superb vocals and more detail.
I moved the B&Ws to a video surround sound set up in another room and they are perfect for movie and sports formats. Trial and error; demo in your room, whatever you choose your results will vary, but first consider the room dynamics.
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@audioman58
Well, for Focal and Whaferdale speakers, a simple tweeter replacement to a Mundorf MKP or Clarity SA can be game changers.
Best,
Erik
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Bite can be called sibilants or etched ,bright , in natural if it’s a horn it should sound brassy ,a screech from a electric guitar and if using reverb can be electronic sounding , .having been modding or upgrading Loudspeaker Xovers for Many years. If you have say a bright beryllium tweeter, or horn , more times then not.
over80% of all loudspeakers use substandard parts for example I use mod Xovers and make loudspeaker purifiers ,
in your speakers a $2 ceramic resistor which can be gritty I use the best Mundorf copper foil ultra , or Path audio resistors $30 each, capacitors many use ok at best Solen capacitors , or cheaper line clarity caps ,or Mundorfs mid line. Why
it’s all about $$ . Roughly $25% of the cost of-your speaker including packing is all that goes into your speaker ,the rest R&D overhead and markup.
i was a audio dealer for 10 years, this too includes the vast majority of electronics .
this is why many times I just buy a quality component then lookfor all weaknesses and upgrade it ,with electronics for example I take Duelunds world class capacitors on the coupling or output stage of my preamp section from the very respectable Rel cap and give them a Loong burn in and a huge jump in performance
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I love the snap of a snare and the tsing of a trumpet or sax, but when the sound acquires an overall hardness I quickly cease being a happy listener. But oh yes, back in the days when I listened to Vin Scully doing the Dodgers on AM, the hardness of the tiny transistor radio did lend an unmistakable aura of you-are-there excitement.
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There's a fine line between bite and a hardening of the sound and the trick is to tread lightly. I've been going through some Toslink cable brands and lengths doing that very same thing: trying to find that balance.
It's more of a finishing touch but what I found is that the right amount of bite can lend an incredible amount of realism and immediacy but too much ruins the sound.
All the best,
Nonoise
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I know what you mean. I have heard it. But over my fifty years pursuing high end audio I found that the more you shoot for natural and what the real acoustic events sound like, the more your system will sound better with all genera of music. I don’t hear that bite in real live acoustic music, just like I don’t hear a lot of slam or over emphasis on the subtitles of the venue.
So, while some overemphasis may favor one kind of music, typically it will get in the way of the others. As an example, I really chased the ethereal magic in Delerium and Enigma in the early ‘90’s. But it was to the detriment of almost every other music.
Around 2010 I got season tickets to the symphony (7th row center) and listened to acoustical instruments everywhere I could. The change in direction for my system was striking… all music started improving. It brought me to where I am today, with the most engaging and immersive system I have heard. I really have a hard time tearing myself away from it after hours of listening every day.
So, for me. Be careful about really cool artificially accentuated characteristics like excessive detail or slam and focus on natural and musical. All music will sound better and your system will be more rewarding.
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I want to hear bite if it’s in the recording but not because of speakers. Yes my speakers can deliver that when it’s there. Ohms or KEFs. But it’s not just the speakers. The things that feed them matter as much if not more. Newer good quality Class D amps seem to do it quite well. My Cambridge evo 150 falls into that category.
I’ve had more “laid back” gear feeding same speakers before. I like that too. In a different way. More relaxed and less attention grabbing as better dynamics tend to do. There is more than one way to make good sound. Who says any one is always best? It’s not. Different strokes. Even sometimes for the same folks in different moods.
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There’s a curious phrase audiophiles use for speakers with well defined leading transients, or extra string or reed sounds: bite
Ergo, "well defined leading transients" are something "extra" as well? Speakers being transiently capable to my ears are less smeared sounding, and in effect oftentimes lend a more natural imprinting to them. In the bass region lack of smear or overhang/stored energy is characteristic of a smoothness in presentation here (apart from speaking of frequency response and flatness), as could be said for the entire frequency region really where smear is a lesser issue. "Bite" as something deemed "extra" would seem unrelated to transient cleanliness, as I see it, and more a product of something else. On the other hand what is subjectively perceived as "speed" of sound, or "snap" can be or typically is an equivalent to transient cleanliness.
Sometimes this is also extra resonance from inside a string instrument. I say it’s extra because I don’t hear the same in real life,
But if it’s an extra resonance from inside a string instrument, isn’t it what’s heard in real life from that very instrument? Real life sound is un-equalized; it’s what’s reproduced that adds that very component.
but for some speakers these are marked selling points.
I’m sure it is.
So, do your speakers bite? Do you like your speakers to bite you? What is your threshold?
My speakers are build for pro cinema use, so "bite" as a selling point would seem moot, as opposed to a perhaps more common "hifi" trick with speakers in this segment. In any case I’ve made my own filter adjustments actively, and I prefer a less trebly response because, as I you said yourself, it’s not what I hear in real life instruments. Some like more "zing" or air in upper octaves likely as a means into an enhanced sensation of detail, where to my ears it draws attention to itself.
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Yes, I want loudspeakers that have some jump and aggression when called for, but I would never use the term bite.
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If my speakers were to ’bite’ I’d either get new speakers or more synergistic components. Most what you call ’bite’ is, IMHO, not much more than equipment which has a peak in the upper mid range utilized in a band aid approach (cheap & easy) to getting a more pronounced sense of imaging, both width and especially depth.
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