Hi Antigrunge,
What improvements do you hear with the dsmpers and which ones do you use? I know Herbie Audio Labs makes some. |
Hi Charles,
I don't think many people would get me thinking about swapping out the BT from the Franks but your comments on the Takatsuki's have.
Quick question. Could you go back to the BT and be happy?
1450 is a lot more then the BT's. Right now I'm happy.
Regards, |
I use duende criatura on both rectifiers and output tubes. Other than reduced ringing benefits include a significantly tightened bass as well as increased air around individual instruments in a deepened soundstage. Well worth it. |
Antigrunge,
Thanks for your reply,I may try some in the near future.
Montejay,
That`s a very good question you raise.As I`ve said before I was very satisfied with the sound of the BT tubes.I had the fortune of listening to a pair of Western Electric 300b (re issused version 1990s vintage) in the Frankenstein amp today(thanks to a very kind loan). While okay,I preferred the sound of the BT by a comfortable margin,It`s more natural,lively and involving.
I do believe there`s synergy at work here, some 300bs just perform better in certain amplifiers. The BT just mates ideally with the Frankenstein. Other amps are voiced with the WE and will sound superb with them no doubt. If I had to go back to the BT I 'could' still enjoy this tube.
Montejay,having heard the Takatsuki-TA in the Frankenstein I must tell you it is in a class above in every way.This tube is simply special. Would this apply to all amps? I certainly could`nt say with any authority. The BT is IMO a 'very' good - near excellent tube,the Takasuki relatively speaking is a stunning tube across the board.
The problem is of course we don`t share the same pair of ears,you could disagree with my impressions. Given the high cost of the japanese tube, well it`s a genuine bargain for what it has done in my system. As you know the Franks are so darn transparent and resolved, you`ll hear even the smallest nuance of difference with each tube quite easily. Montejay, with you Pure Refernce speaker you will clearly hear it all without question.
Best Regards, |
Charles1Dad is too kind. The WE 300B remake was so disappointing. It was very foward and two dimensional. It was some of the worst sound I heard at his house. Charles, may be right this tube may sound good in another amp, but not in his. We in the future may be listening to EAT Euro Audio Team 32B, KR300B, and EML 300XLS tubes, if our kind friend will let them go for evaluation. |
Jeff,
I `ll admit to being a bit measured when describing what I hear when making comparisions.I`m cognizant of the fact that it`s only my opinion and limited to one amplifier(Coincident Frankenstein) in use. The reality is that 300b tubes vary significantly in sound and then factor in the many different 300b amps available suddenly you find quite a few variables to account for.
I described the WE tube as just OK as it was so outclassed (clearly )by the Takasuki, I just did`nt feel the need to beat it up.
Others will contend the WE re-issue 300b is one of the very best available (its certainly been reviewed with those conclusions many times). One thing I know regarding high end audio, opinions will be all over the map and mine is but one among many. |
You guys mention a break-in period for the tubes. I was curious what changes in sound as the tubes go through their break-in?
Thanks,
Scott |
Charles1dad- Pls send me an email msklein52@comcast.net, if you are interested in comparing the Takasukis and BTs to KR and/or AVVT We clones. I have a pair of each but my VAC takes 4 300bs, so they are "on the shelf" right now. With the need for 4 tubes, cost is an issue, so I'd love to hear how these compare. I understand that its likely to be system dependent, but what isn't. Anyways it would be a starting point. |
Swampwalker,
Thanks very much for your kind tube loan offer. I`ll email you. Are you using the VAC Renaissance30/30?
best Regards, |
Charles1dad- That be the beast (and I do mean beast...it made me recall the advice of one A'goner who said that the quality of a tube amp is very closely correlated to its weight, which, of course, correlates to the weight of its output xfrmrs.) Will be looking for your email. |
Any updates regarding RP's?
How many hours on Takatsuki Charles1dad? Any improvements?
THX |
Hi Maxmad,
Hope to finally hear the RP next week.
The Takatsuki has about 60-65 hours and has only gotten better. No night/day change but noticable improvements, the sense of air, living-breathing pressence along with dynamic power and projection is uber quality.This tube is very energetic and emotional ly involving yet it maintains a sense of supreme refinement and control.Resoulution,nunance and articulation is fanstastic! you will hear the most suble differences between all recordings nothing is masked over or veiled. This is done in a most natural and holistic manner(not clinical-analytical by any means).
Bottom line, the Takatsuki is an extraordinary 300b and I can`t imagine how it would fail to impress those who want pure natural music as opposed to hifi artificiality.It is clearly better than the Shuguang BT and just outclassed the Western Electric re-issue 300b in my system
Regards, |
I have neither Sophia nor KR, but I have TJ Fullmusic 300B/n and Treasure 300B-Z. Both are good tubes and produce enjoyable music to me. I found big changes when changing 845 to 845B, and changing Shuguang 6SN7 to EH gold 6SN7. |
Charles1dad,
I have followed this thread with interest because I also have the Frankenstein mark II monoblocks equiped with the Black Treasure 300b tubes. I have always believed this to be a stellar pairing but I would love to hear the Takatsuki 300b tubes in these amps. I can't find the link to order them. Could you help a fellow tubeofile out here? |
Hello Marcus,
The Frankenstein-BT 300b is stellar as you say(it bettered virtually everything else I`ve heard in home audio systems for my taste). The contact is audio@amtrans.co.jp they answer with good english translation. Given your fine system I believe the improvement with the Takatsuki will be blatantly apparent and worthwhile.
Marcus what prompted the change from your high powered Cary to the 8 watt Frankenstein?
Regards, |
Charles1dad,
Thanks for the link. It's a considerable amount of money to pay for the tubes but, like you say, may be worth every penny. The Cary CAD120S was my first foray into tube amps several years ago and it's still an interesting switch off every now and then. The Frankenstein amps really opened my eyes to 300b sound. After reading many comments here on the gon and following your threads, I decided to take the plunge and purchased the Franks a few years ago. I was blown away!!! this leads me to believe that your tastes in sound and mine are pretty close so I'm going for the Takatsuki's. I also own a VAC 30/30 and recently installed 4 Psvane 181-T tubes in the front, 6SN7 positions. It's a tad more dynamic than the Franks but I'm thinking that the Takatsuki's may erase any similarities.
I want to thank you for the excellent guidelines and opinions you have ventured forth in these threads. I have found them to be most valuable. |
Hi Markus,
Thank you for your kind comments.The Frankenstein is a fabulous amplifier but obviously not 'perfect'. There`s always some inherent trade offs with any component even if slight.My 100 watt/60watt triode Bella Extreme amp was a 'bit' more dyanamic(but only at louder levels than I would normally listen at) and it has just a bit more bass weight/impact with certain music.The 8 watt Franks are close enough however and in 'all' other areas is a clearly superior amp.
I`ve always admired the VAC Renaissance amps and some trades offs likely exist here as well.
Funny thing is that the Takatsukis do add significant improvement in both dynamics and bass weight and firmness(also better articulation and texture)that narrows the already small gap in this area.
Recommendations are tricky and are`nt guaranteed but I`m fairly certain you`ll be very pleased with the change to the Takatsuki.8 watt SET vs 30 watt push-pull, how do they differ in tonality.air, openess and transparency? You have two very fine amplifiers though with different perspectives of sound. |
Markus - I think you should sell me back my VAC 30/30 so you can fund the purchase of the Takatsuki's for your Frankensteins. What do u say! |
Markus - continuing my rambling thoughts... then I'll sell my VAC 70/70 Sig. to fund a quad of Takatsuki's for my old 30/30 that you are going to sell me back, right? ;)... and we can go in together on a big order of Takatsuki's and get a discount! |
Pdreher, your Daedalus speakers would sound well with either of the VAC REN amps,even the 30/30 is a potent little beast. |
Charles - I agree, both of the VAC REN amps are great... but the 30/30 would be a heck of a lot cheaper to retube with Takatsuki's @ $1,450/pair! |
Hello Charles1dad and Paul,
Just back from AXPONA audio show in Jacksonville,Fl. It was a very interesting experience. I'll save details for a different thread but I'll venture forth this thought. Learning and listening to new and different technologies is truely a great part of our audiofile experience.
Charles1dad, the Pure Reference speakers really respond well to the additional 24 watts the 30/30 puts out. After tube rolling the front 4 6SN7's I found that 4, Psvane 181-t's really took this amp to a different level. I have only 50 hours on the tubes but the change is uncanny and not suttle. Dynamics are expanded, soundstaging is improved and as these tubes break in, I hear suttle differences that weren't there before. On the negative side of the equation, I do hear more noise in the push pull configuration than I do with the Franks but like you said, there are always trade off's. It's an interesting comparison. I'm looking forward to the Takatsuki's, which brings up another posibility. What if I took the Black Bottles out of the Franks, bought 2 more and put them in the 30/30????
Paul, I will be forever greatful to you for selling me the 30/30. It's truely a GREAT amp that, to me, is a keeper and continues to improve. How do the Daedulus speakers sound?
|
Markus,
As I suspected, two really good amps with their own individual advantages. I`d expect 32 watts of push--pull 300b to be advantageous for a bit more grunt and dynamics yet still very good at everything else. I`d expect the Frankenstein to be a bit more pure and nuanced but still have very realistic dynamics. You can`t go wrong in your situation.
The BT tubes could very well be an upgrade in the VAC REN amplifier. The only relative drawback I`ve heard regarding this amp is the circuit is 'hot rod design' and is said to be hard on the 300b (shorten life span). Otherwise everything else concerning the amp is positive across the board.
I`ll be very interested to read your impression of the Takatsuki-Frankenstein match, as dynamic performance and projection/energy(overall scale) is one of the most noticable improvemnets over the BT 300b.If I did`nt own the Franks I could live quite happily with the VAC 30/30 amp.
Regards, |
Markus - Now that I've put my Daedalus thru a formal break-in process, they are sounding great.
BTW, in talking to Brent @ VAC, I've found a way to get the sound of my old 30/30 out of my 70/70 Sig. by simply taking out a row (quad) of 300B's. In doing so, I essentially now have a 30/30 Signature in the body of a 70/70 Sig. Kind of a waste in some respects, but it gives me the advantage of either going with only one quad of 300B's to get my preferred sound of a 30/30 Sig., but keeping the other quad in reserve if I ever switch back to a less efficient speaker that would benefit from the additional quad of output tubes.
Now I just have to find a creative way to purchase a quad of high-end 300B's. I can probably swing a quad of KR's, but would prefer to go all out with a quad of Takatsuki's.
Did you have to pay retail price, or did they discount off the $1,450 retail? |
Pdreher,
There`s no discount available. Fortunately for me I only need one pair, I feel your pain as the cost for multiple pairs can climb in a hurry.I like your conversion of the REN70/70to a 30/30. With your efficient speakers the 30/30 should be plenty enough power and perhaps a bit purer sounding(fewer tubes- simpler effect). |
Pdreher,
That's an excellent idea with the 70/70. You essentially have 2 amps in one. |
The cost is 51,000 yen per tube. With 8,000 yen for shipping, the total comes to 110,000. The only variability is the exchange rate. Right now the dollar is trending stronger against the yen than a month ago. I have found that Amtrans was very responsive; they worked with the factory to identify a pair with a low plate current that would be compatible with my amplifier. Just sometime it takes them a day or two to answer an email. While the invoice says "The delivery would be done over 3 weeks," each of the two pair that I purchased arrived in 2 or 3 days.
The US Distributor - Axiss Audio (also the distributor for Air Tight) - sells a pair for 1800USD plus shipping and handling. |
Hi Gsm,
How are these latest Takatsuki tubes working out for you? |
03-10-12: Pdreher
In talking to Brent @ VAC, I've found a way to get the sound of my old 30/30 out of my 70/70 Sig. by simply taking out a row (quad) of 300B's. In doing so, I essentially now have a 30/30 Signature in the body of a 70/70 Sig. Hey, Paul, that's good to know! Another reason being that if a tube ever fails, it would therefore be safe to operate the amp with a row of tubes removed, while a replacement is being obtained. To be sure I am understanding properly, what could be removed would be either the four 300B's that are closest to the rear of the amp, or the four 300B's that are closest to the front of the amp. Is that correct? Very glad, also, that your Ulysses ultimately worked out well. Best regards, -- Al |
Al - I have the Signature version of the 70/70 with the enclosed chasis, so I'm not sure the non-signature version would be the same. I say this because I shared this tweak with Audiogoner "Waltersalas"... and he was unable to get his 70/70 mk III to work the way I was able to.
In my case, I removed all 4 output tubes closest to the front of the amp, leaving only the 4 output tubes closest to the rear of the amp. Brent said removing either the front or back row of 300B's would work.
Give it a try and let me know if it works for you.
It sounds so good this way, that I will be sticking with this 30/30 configuration as long as I have efficient speakers like the Daedalus. |
Paul,
What are you actually hearing differently in the 30/30 format that you don`t with the 70/70?
Regards, |
I'd love to have some WE300b's for my Cary 805C's but i'm not willing to spend $2400 for the pair. The new Psvane WE300b replicas have caught my attention. Have any of you guys/girls been able to listen to these new W.E. replicas? Or at least been able to find any reviews on them?
Thanks |
>Maxmad to Charles1dad<
"Any updates regarding RP's? |
I am done with RP's, see my earlier posts please.
Charles1dad waiting for his pair, as far as I know, its all depending on how fast Sophia arange the replacement pair.
Hey guys, anyone of you knows that STC 4300B tubes actually can be used as direct 300B replacement?
These are so rare that I dont think we ever see anyone here to post something about it, but I just thought to mention this would be interesting.
Another, less exciting news, is that Takatsuki going to be much expensiver soon, say around JPY 30.000 = USD360 more than now, so, if you want to order, do it now.
THX |
I may pull the trigger today on a quad of Tatatsuki's. I cringe at the price, but figure it to be a once in a lifetime purchase. Hope they live up to the hype! |
I've got a pair of the Tatatsuki's on the way now...hopefully. Paul, if you do pull the trigger, let us know how they sound in your amp. I'm thinking about getting a second pair before prices go up and the base changes. |
Update,
I will receive a new pair of the RP shipped out today per sue at Sophia Electric(they`re very cooperative and friendly).
Maxmad, you say the Takatsuki is increasing their price? Wow! it`s a superb 300b but it` very expensive at current price. When will this price increase happen?
It makes me wonder how good the new Psvane W.E. replica could be for it`s price. Could their engineering,parts and built perhaps come very close to the japanese standard(ultra high).Could the Psvane sound nearly/or as good?
Regards, |
Chalrles1dad, great news, finally you will be able to start the comparison.
I must say, I am not sure, cos it can be an kind of speculation as well, I just asked this person again if the info he got is true, but if it's going to happened than it will be within one month from now, that's what he heard.
I just thought it may help folks to spare some money, if Takatsuki will increase their price I mean, thats all.
He also mention that EAT is going to re-design their 300B tube around September 2012, however I am not sure of this either. |
Just got the info and yes, Amtrans confirm the price increase and base color change.
Regarding EAT. They seem to stop the production of their line around Nov 2011 and he got the personal confirmation from EAT boss Jozefina, where she wrote about new design and release date of it. |
I've been beating the bushes for the last few weeks trying to find either new stock EAT 300B's or KR300B's with no luck. Thought I had found a pair of EAT's at Elusive Disc, only to be told at the last minute that there is zero availability from the US Distributor, and leadtime for the next production run could be 9-12 months, but it was uncertain when more would be available. |
I have a pair of new EATs that I am not using. |
|
"Another, less exciting news, is that Takatsuki going to be much expensiver soon, say around JPY 30.000 = USD360 more than now...
Maxmad - Yikes!!!
Charles1dad - Please, please dont tell me that they blow the RPs away. |
Takatsuki going to make 274B tube as well, price JPY80.000 = USD960 each.
By the way, their new black base with yellow print on it version is so beautiful that I have to hit myself real hard to keep it cool. |
Maxmad,
Are the only changes with the Takatsuki cosmetic? |
No, they seem to upgrade them as well, but its all in Japanese, can someone read / translate this please?
http://www.takatsuki-denki.co.jp/pdf/TA-300B_TA-274B_pressrelease120308.pdf
THX |
Google been tried and something in there, but what exactly, not sure, so, we need an real Japanese or someone who can translate correctly here, imo.
Or, maybe if everyone tries, we will find something, who knows:-)))
The internal construction will remain the same, but they are talking about improvements with new release, so, whatever that is, must be even better than now, right? |
Here is it
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.takatsuki-denki.co.jp%2Fpdf%2FTA-300B_TA-274B_pressrelease120308.pdf |
Maxmad,
I got an email from Keiko at AMtrans confirming an increase price with the new 300b model for mid april. I`ve asked her to send me information on what 'exactly' the differnces are between these two tubes besides a different base color.Good lord! can the sound possibly improve from it`s stunning current level? |
Charles1dad, same person was telling the same the guy I based my story on, so, its true:-(
Let us know pls.
Got RP's already? |
