I think most bearing are about the same size.
the Shindo is very large. There is a stock v Shindo picture in my virtual system
Garrard 301 - Project
I have been contemplating for a while which turntable to pursue given so many choices. Every time I look around, I just can’t help drooling over a fully restored Garrard 301 or 401. Aside from being an idler-drive, I keep reading and hearing about their unique ability to reproduce music with its sense of drive and impact thus making them very desirable to own. And with available meticulous restoration services and gorgeous plinth options, what’s not to like, right!
Would you please share your experience, good and pitfalls (if any) with a restored Garrard 301 to avoid before I go down this path.
And what about the IEC inlet and power cord, would they be of any significance. My two choices would be Furutech FI-09 NCF or FI-06 (G) inlets.
I have already purchased a Reed 3P Cocobolo 10.5” with Finewire C37+Cryo tonearm/interconnect phono cable with KLEI RCA plugs option.
Still exploring Cart Options, so please feel free to share your choice of cart with Garrard 301 or 401.
And lastly, I would like to extend my gratitude to @fsonicsmith, @noromance @mdalton for the inspiration.
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Also, before I upgraded to the Shindo platter I was using the SPEC mat on the stock platter with great results IMO. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/spec-analog-disc-sheet-ap-ud1-tt-mat-anyone-else-have-this |
The Shindo plattter comes with a special platter mat. The bad news is Shindo does’t sell the platter/bearing other than as part of a turntable anymore. I think You would need to source the platter/bearing on the used market. They used to sell the platter/bearing as a separate item I’m excited to ee your Garard 301 journey, so please continue to update Jim Perry
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I am counting on it, Jim @jperry |
@lalitk Congrats on that. I saw your comment on mulveling's post. What arm are you using? |
The Classic HiFi UK brass 301 bearing is also much larger, perhaps not as large but close and it is built to handle the 12kg brass platter that Ray offers. That said, I bought both and as stated above prefer the Dobbins (not "Dobbs", may bad) platter which is alloy topped with a layer of copper. |
Thanks, my tone arm is Reed 3P - 10.5” with Cocobolo arm wand. I thought about aftermarket bearing and platter but my dealer suggested that I should hear ‘stock’ 301 first and then start tweaking the TT with aftermarket parts. The upgrade like bearing appears to be a no brainer. I do not know at this time how much a platter would enhance the performance. Is Dobbins platter still available or is it pretty much unobtainable? |
@lalitk I’m inferring from the sable color that you are buying your 301 from Matthew Taylor. Re virgin stock units, he’s been supplying Audiosilente idlers on newer refurbished units. Do you know if yours will have one fitted? I would also check with him to ensure both upper AND lower idler bearings are replaced. What plinth did you go for? Apologies if you’ve already stated it above. |
“I’m inferring from the sable color that you are buying your 301 from Matthew Taylor. ” Correct. As per my dealer, I am getting a fully restored 301. I entrusted my dealer for this project. He has helped shaped my system for past 5 years. He has been nothing short of a blessing in my journey to achieve an exemplary listening experience. As far as plinth goes, I went with Piano Walnut Burl finish. I tried to post the link but got blocked. If you scroll up, @elliottbnewcombjr posted a link to the eBay seller. |
what a cool and interesting thread….even civil… i even enjoy the lew / Pindac banter jousting… Congrats on the Koetsu. I’ve recently made similar plunge w Urushi Black. I also recommend buying the excellent book on the art on the namesake : The Arts of Honami Koetsu: Japanese Renaissance Master A positive vote for the @slaw MyMat….. again as Brian points out IF you must or want one… Hopefully Steve has a few left. IMO and experience, your CORE rack should be excellent. I use HRS Vortex footers… but under a bespoke plinth for a DD Denon….aghast… Finally, I keep…. waiting for the leavings from the @noromance graveyard SALE…. ha I would like first right of refusal on that near worthless, inferior, KORF headshell….. |
@tomic601 Jim, I may have taken liberty with the actuality of the Graveyard! It is conceptual in intent. Korf were good enough to accept the return. As was Audio Sensibility. I do have the SPH copper platter mat among the usual assortment of tubes, cables, old turntables, amps, etc. |
OP, Congrats on making a decision, should be a winner! The custom plinths are gorgeous. Are you going for one or two tonearms? Me, almost done reading the Jazz Encylopedia, more Mono LP’s are in my future! Personally, if they didn't begin making it, I would ask the maker to increase the 2 arm plinth just enough to fit a rectangular dust cover on/around the tonearms when in their rests, leaving some wood and the 4 curved corners outside of the cover.. 'on' the plinth keeps the dust cover smaller and lighter than covering the whole plinth. In any case, I’m sure you will love it. |
During the past weekend, I was finally able to add a SS Platter to a SP10 MkII. The demo' was carried out in the home of the individual who has won over many converts to adopting the work undertaken on the SP10 MkII and their Bespoke design for a Tonearm. The SP10 used has a bespoke design being used for the Platter Spindle Bearing and also has a electronics modification that has a improved control in comparison to the original design for the stability of speed. Panzerholz is the TT's Plinth with a P'holz Sub Plinth. Three individuals in the Room using equipment each are very familiar with in relation to TT>Tonearm>Phonostage>Speakers. New Class D Power Amp's were in use, which I immediately picked up on had a impact on the Soundstage, there was the perception of a wider and deeper volume being filled. The SS Platter (7Kg) with no damping was put into service after the first recess for Lunch. A few repeat Tracks were agreed to be replayed and as I was in the hotspot, I was immediately to become aware of the difference the SS Platter has on the presentation. With the changes detected, I gave up my seat to the System owner who worked their way through a few familiar Tracks. The other attendee also had the hotspot for their choice of Tracks as well. Interesting Outcome, I felt the Mid's and Highs were accentuated in a way that was not in coherence with the lower frequencies. The system owner felt the lower frequencies were not only subdued, but also subtly smeared and lost the clean edge and fast decay usually present. The other attendee felt the Mat should be tried out with a Valve Amplification as well, as the Bass might benefit. The system owner has heard enough to convince them that a Damping will bring more to the party and give the Mat a better Interface on the TT. Moral of the Story, Platters can't be assessed as a verbal exchange, the experience has to be had, especially in a environment where much info is already known about the systems performance without the additional ancillary. As for exchanges of a Platter Spindle Bearing to a design using modern concepts and materials not used by the original manufacturer, such as a Thermoplastic with low coefficient of friction. I can say go for it, there is much improvement to be found.
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@tomic601 As I have made it known endlessly. I travel, I meet, I experience, I comment only (to the best of my ability ) on experiences encountered only. If I add anything beyond experience had (to the best of my ability), it will be the interpretation of a description given from an individual 'known' and who I have a lot of trust in on the subject of Audio. I do the basics of the Math Pretty well, and have access to all the Tools available to be used on the internet to make the math occasionally required easier. Math, what does it really mean to a Newbie, or in many cases to the individuals with a long term interest in audio ? Most are trusting in others and allow the Math to be another's concern. Is a audio enthusiast really lacking in understanding and not to be taken serious if they are not presenting the Math behind decisions made/to be made. Does a 10 years old - 40 years old TT really perform to the measured spec offered at the time of new? Does a Cart' with a usage life really perform to the measured Spec' from when it left the manufacturers ? Does a Tonearm living in a typical environment for a period of time, function exactly as the design was intended to do so ? All the so called Diehards, quoting all forms of Math don't actually know what they own. I am sticking close to those who do know what they own, and on a simple description can request a chance to investigate something that may have changed, the only math required being the calculation of the round trip. Basic description of experiences had, and influences resulting from experiences had, are the type of info that I wholeheartedly sense is what appeals to the larger audio enthusiast group. It is these who I post for in a Thread. Certainly not the stagnated, who are very low in activity for their inquisitive ventures. As said on many occasions, I gave up on the 'sole locked away in a room listener type', way too many years ago. To consider this notion today is seen to have an only outcome that diminishes opportunity to encounter experiences and removes opportunity to attain, the very important grounding in what is valuable and worthwhile maintaining and what is a 'se défausser'. |
@pindac dear fellow.. you had me at “ break for lunch “… Today is a good day to contemplate the math or not underlying audio ( and other decisions ) by considering the obvious ( at least to this dullard Economist ) findings of Daniel Kahneman ; Thinking Fast and Slow…. Best to all in music….. |
Congratulations on Koetsu Urushi Black. That’s a beautiful cart! As Koetsu being no longer made, I approached my purchase for the history and the legacy. Thought long and hard about one of the stone bodies cart but couldn’t quite extend the budget. I believe, Rosewood Sig. Platimum holds the sweet spot in Koetsu hierarchy. Thanks for your recommendation on book (already ordered through Amazon) and footers. Speaking of mats, check out Torque’s CU2900 Copper Mat. Great suggestion on dust cover. I went with 2 arms plinth version. The communication was bit of a challenge due language barrier, I can ask for “extra” width but that may not be possible as they start the work on plinth right away.
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It has been a few years since I have had any interaction with Steve Dobbins. I am sure he sources the platter and it is very likely still available. Something I would strongly consider first is just the upgraded bearing and the stock platter. The sound is so damned fun that way. Lively, dynamic, toe-tapping fun. |
Unfortunately the Gon is doing its FORUM MEMBERS an INJUSTICE by blocking Links to other Web Sites that are totally on topic to the content of Thread. Everybody needs a good old link to help, these are coals on the fire. Stereophile - Budha Bearing review, a few useful tops about fitting these add-on devices as well. I have used and will suggest Bicycle Torque Wrench as the tightening tool. The selection of the correct Nm Setting is King in such a circumstance. 4Nm is a very good start point. An additional Collar used on the Chassis to improve Chassis Rigidity, resulting in substantial reduction on the Chassis Flexion is invaluable. There is no point having the tightest of tolerances for a new machined Bearing Assembly, set up in a way the Bearing Housing Base is a Pendulum through Chassis Flexion showing the worst of its presence at the Bearing Base. A Bearing Housing Exchange Is one of a few considerations to be used in conjunction, with adding rigidity to the Chassis and Anchoring the Bearing Housing Base to reduce flexion. Some also have methods to use a Base Anchor as a Energy Drain. |
I finally got around to checkout your beautiful system. One question on independent arm base, any challenges or advantages you could share would be appreciated. Appreciate your input on feets and dust cover. I am exploring my options. Lot of it will come down to what I end up selecting to rest my TT. A solution from SRA or HRX may negate the importance of high quality feet. First order of business will be to rest TT on my core audio rack and Slim Cerabase feet (already in-house). |
I saw some nice simple round wooden feet at AliExpress. Perhaps ask them for 4 simple square or round legs, you pick diameter i.e. 60mm and thickness i.e. 40mm, forget stud, just matching wood for double face attachment. My JVC Plinth legs provide +/- 40mm clearance (adjustable). You need clearance for the tonearm cables, more if DIN below. They make right angle DIN Connectors, Pine Tree Audio made me a special din/rca phono cable for my Mission Arm to my SUT. btw, I never realized, with 2 arms, you need a way to select which arm goes to the phono stage. My Vintage McIntosh Preamp has two mm phono inputs, then I added a 3rd arm, I got lucky, my Fidelity Research FRT-4 has 3 front selectable inputs, one phono out to MM phono 1. Pass is a good feature if you change from MC to MM occasionally on either arm. My friend's Luxman 444 two arm deck has it's own built in a/b box, a nice feature |
The 2nd arm option is low priority for me. It’s nice to have that option in case I decided to sell the TT down the road. For flexibility, I ordered 3 extra headshells so I can switch out carts on the fly 😊 I am starting out with Konus Audio Vinyle 3000MC phono which is immune to cart output. For comparison, I plan to bring Tron Convergence Phono Stage. I was very impressed by Konus phono in a sub $75K system last year at AXPONA.
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