Garrard 301 - Project
I have been contemplating for a while which turntable to pursue given so many choices. Every time I look around, I just can’t help drooling over a fully restored Garrard 301 or 401. Aside from being an idler-drive, I keep reading and hearing about their unique ability to reproduce music with its sense of drive and impact thus making them very desirable to own. And with available meticulous restoration services and gorgeous plinth options, what’s not to like, right!
Would you please share your experience, good and pitfalls (if any) with a restored Garrard 301 to avoid before I go down this path.
And what about the IEC inlet and power cord, would they be of any significance. My two choices would be Furutech FI-09 NCF or FI-06 (G) inlets.
I have already purchased a Reed 3P Cocobolo 10.5” with Finewire C37+Cryo tonearm/interconnect phono cable with KLEI RCA plugs option.
Still exploring Cart Options, so please feel free to share your choice of cart with Garrard 301 or 401.
And lastly, I would like to extend my gratitude to @fsonicsmith, @noromance @mdalton for the inspiration.
As I mentioned above, I run genuine, old, Telefunken ECC803S tubes in my phono stage. These take the Telefunken clarity and dynamics even further out to the extremes than the ECC83 tubes. I like them in my system, but I don’t think they have universal appeal. If I were to pick a tube as being universally good and likable by everyone, it would be a Bugleboy. These are on the warm side, but, they have good clarity and are lively sounding. I don’t know of anyone who hates their sound. |
Cheers @lalitk |
@lalitk Good to hear and thanks for following up. How is the vinyl and remaster quality of the Ben Webster Plays Ballads album. I've a damaged original and forgot about replacing, and frankly was hesitant to get the new RM for fear of it being damaged by the digital process! |
I had a feeling Tele NOS would be better since I am using quad of Tele NOS in my CD player. Speaking of tube rolling, I always wanted to try Amperex Bugle Boy 12AX7 but they are so rare and expensive. The reissues or newer tubes are pretty good but they simply cannot match the vintage NOS tubes distinctive characteristics adding subtle but meaningful improvements in tone, texture, and timing. Gotta go, just received a fresh delivery of Ben’s new albums from Amazon :-) |
@noromance Lalit - funny, I was literally just wondering how you were getting along with the tele's. Also Ben Webster was one of my go-to's for testing the Softone. Glad you like the tele's. I had a chance to warm up and test the Sovtek LPS variant and tried it in the Model 4 and my tube DAC and it is surprisingly good. I think I like it best in the DAC, but at $60 a pair these are the best new issue tubes I've heard so far and easily best the Gold Lion reissue's that were included by the seller with the model 4. btw, I ordered a new Model 4 from Mr. Yoshimoto - it will ship early next month, then I'll get the used one repaired (if cost is reasonable) and put it up for sale. Lastly, I did some more a/b testing between the Model 4 and my Gold Note PH-10 with PSU-10 (3 x the price), and it's not even close. My "busted" Model 4 really is remarkable - can't wait to hear what a properly functioning one sounds like! |
I have been listening to Telefunken NOS 12AX7 since yesterday after 4 days of break-in. Let me first say JJ 12AX7 are excellent tubes for the money. My biggest concern was noise with Tele NOS. Fortunately, they turned out to be dead quiet. They are allowing me to fully appreciate Ben Webster’s velvety and breathy tenor saxophone fully bodied sound at another level. I own several recordings of Ben’s music and every one of them giving me goosebumps :-) I can’t praise enough my Model 4 phono…what an amazing bargain! I may order another one for my 2nd tonearm. Thank again! |
@lalitk Great. Give them a few days to settle in before judging. |
Indeed you did and I ordered the NOS Telefunken based on your initial suggestion but then I completely forgot about them….lol! @macg19 post reminded me that I had NOS Telefunken’s sitting in my closet. |
You’re welcome! Sorry to hear about the issue with left channel, hopefully you can get it repair easily. I really appreciate your feedback on tube rolling, I am still using stock JJ’s …the phono is now fully “broken-in” and I’m really enjoying its warm, organic tonal characteristics. IMHO, this little giant slayer is a perfect fit for systems that are tuned or end user’s prefer intimacy and warmth. Inspired by your feedback, I am going to swap out JJ’s with NOS Telefunken 12AX7 this weekend. What cart you’re using with Model 4? |
I bought a used Softone Model 4 last week. It easily bests my GoldNote PH-10 with PS-10 LPS. I’ve rolled NOS Mullard, Telefunken Diamond Mark, RCA 6201, and GE, as well as some Gold Lion reissues that came with it. I prefer the tele’s in the phono stage by far, but much prefer the RCA and Mullard’s in my DAC. Unfortunately the Model 4 has a noisy left channel, so I’ll probably order a new one from Japan, then send the used one back for repair and hope the repair is reasonable - then sell it to recoup a few bucks (hopefully). @lalitk thanks for letting me know about the Model 4! |
@lewm If you find that:
I am surprised that:
It seems to me that if a better capacitor does wonders, then a better tube might as well! Perhaps I have fooled myself, but I'm surprised to find that changing a rectifier tube can affect the sound quality, never mind the tubes in the signal path. I am not guilty of changing types of tubes, only the manufacturer. |
Yes - that's the one I'm talking about. In hindsight it may have been the power supply feeds to the tubes that had some design foibles that were precarious. I have the circuit diagrams here with updates by Mike ( there were several updates to that pre ), but my tech was not happy. He did explain to me the design issue, but I can't remember the detail - its some years ago. Its an ok preamp. |
Dover, I own the old QS preamp that has a built in MM phono stage, along with its linestage, not the newer models that I think are separates, a phono stage and a separate linestage. Since I have measured the voltages across the tubes, and thereby also calculated plate current and plate dissipation, I can assure you that the early 1990s era QS does not run the tubes "very hard". The plate dissipation is well within spec. Upgrading the capacitors in the RIAA filter and the output coupling capacitors does wonders for the sound. |
Your focus on speed and transparency aligns perfectly with your preference for a balanced and revealing system. It’s great that your approach to tube selection considers the nuances of classic circuit design. That level of detail ensures optimal synergy and performance without introducing unwanted coloration or sluggishness. My journey into analog so far has been nothing short of amazing experiences. There is still lot more work ahead as I look forward to receiving the elusive Woodsong plinth + implementation of 2nd tonearm and Mono cart by Spring 2025. |
No. I listen to mostly Jazz & Classical. My preferences are for maximum speed and transparency. I very seldom have any issues with system balance - having multiple arms/cartridges is enough. One thing I cannot stand is slowness or aberrations/colourations - I find that ultimately they grate on you over time. Best to build a balanced system to start with. In terms of tube choice - its the particular application that can determine tube variant in my experiences - specifically with classic circuits eg Marantz you have tubes that perform gain functions and tubes that are used in a cathode follower application ( no gain, used as buffer to generate a low impedance output ). Occasionally I have found that the 2 best tubes in those positions are not the same. @lewm I used to distribute Quicksilver, I have owned them years ago - the QS preamp runs the tubes very very hard. |
Dover, Please lighten up. I was quoting Lalitk. That is why the words were in quotation marks. Evidently Lalitk experiences the TFK ECC83 as tonally rich. As we all know, one's impressions of the SQ of any single item in a system are dependent upon what else is in the system and what is in the caput of the listener. Although I have to say that I preferred the sound of TFK ECC83s against any other congener in my Quicksilver preamplifier, I also hold with noromance that you can adjust tonality elsewhere, such as by careful choice of output coupling capacitor, and etc. I used the TFKs in the Q because I have owned a quad of them since the 1970s, and I figured I ought to at least give them a try. The Quicksilver is a superb sounding unit, in my opinion, but these days it just sits on the shelf. Mullards were underwhelming in the Quicksilver, not even second choice. I am in general not a fan of tube rolling at all. |
You both are right—Telefunken ECC83s are not “tonally rich” in the sense that Mullards or Amperex tubes are. They’re prized for their neutrality, speed, and precision rather than warmth or fullness. Their sonic signature tends to be leaner, more transparent, and dynamic, which is why they excel in circuits like the Marantz 7, where their neutrality complements the design’s inherent qualities. As you mentioned, tube performance is highly circuit-dependent. Telefunkens might shine in a circuit designed for clarity and speed, while Mullards or Amperex tubes with their fuller and richer sound, might be better suited for systems aiming for warmth and body. It’s fascinating how tube rolling allows for such fine-tuning, but also how generalized statements about “the best tube” fall short when we take into account circuit topology, system synergy and personal preference. Your experience highlights the beauty of experimentation, something I deeply believe in. Do you find that your preference for Telefunken or Mullard shifts depending on the type of music you’re listening to or is it the system’s overall tonal balance? |
@dover Funny, I had a drawer full of the box plate Mullards you mention. Nice if one likes creamy, warm, and slow, with no air. I'll concede that Teles can be a little lacking in warmth. However, I maintain that you can adjust tonality elsewhere in the system without slowing it all down in the phono amplifier. |
No they are not. Exact opposite - in the Marantz 7 circuit they are fast, reasonably transparent and very flat. I have a draw full of premium flat plate Telefunkins. They have never sounded rich. If you want rich - Mullards tend to be much more fullsome the expense of speed and neutrality. The problem with any discussion on tubes is that the best tube can be circuit related - you can't make blanket statements.
Absolutely correct - I have drawer fulls of flat plate telefunkens - they are as described. I also have a stash of Mullard CV4004 and M8137's both are richer and fuller sounding than the Tele's. In my Marantz 7 I preferred the Telfunkens. In my Jadis preamp I preferred the Mullards in some positions ( but not all ).
|
Link to my aforementioned Black Treasures. |
I like Telefunkens, but, I never considered them to be tonally rich sounding tubes. The ones I heard were very lively and dynamic sounding, but, considerably leaner than the likes of Mullard and Amperex. The Telefunkens that I ended up using in my phono stage are ECC803S tubes that are very expensive. They came in their original box, This was quite a while ago when there were some concerns about fakes, but, the Chinese had not yet perfected the fake diamond molded into the bottom of the tube. The box looked suspiciously clean and new, but the ends crumbled when I opened them, which indicated that t boxes were very old. For warmer sound, I like Amerex Bugle Boy 12AX7s. |
Thank you for your recommendation. And I agree, Telefunken ECC83/12AX7 tubes are legendary for a reason. I am also looking at Mullard’s from 60’s which are known for silky and pleasant top end without being rolled-off. The best of these tubes retain a fine sense of "air" at the top, and the upper midrange is smooth and liquid. These tubes reproduce the human voice, especially female voices, with haunting realism. And then there is Siemens ECC83 NOS 1968, that are favorably touted for phono stages and preamps. |
| Post removed |
“I just think they nailed it…. I agree with your assessment. This is a very special phono at a screaming bargain. I have been listening to records two straight days…lol. Have you done any tube rolling? My unit came with JJ ECC803S, they are breaking in nicely and have whet my appetite for more. |
@dover ….Correct :-) |
So for those of us who speak English as a native language, the 12AX7LPS is indeed a variant of 12AX7, whether you subscribe to either Merriam-Webster or Cambridge dictionary. I personally use 12AX7HTF's in my Marantz 7. Congrats on the Softone.
|
“A randomly chosen NOS 12AX7/ECC83 is unlikely to be as quiet.” Maybe so but that shouldn’t deter anyone to not experiment, right? It’s a calculated gamble with any NOS tubes…well regarded NOS 12AX7s or ECC83s (like Mullards, Telefunkens, or Amperex) may not be low noise as Sovtek but what they have in spades is harmonic complexity and tonal richness. I had an extensive dialog with the manufacturer prior to my purchase, the Model 4 supports all 12AX7 variants. My particular piece is supplied with JJ ECC803S and it is dead quiet. |
Softone Model 4 is here. Its breaking-in and sounding promising. It’s dead quiet (uses a pair of 12AX7 variant), clarity, bass response and imaging seems to be spot on. Thanks to @hoytis for the mention. |
I have been enjoying analog bliss for past month or so. There is something very endearing about Garrard 301. Is it the timeless classic design or the toe tapping musical engagement…maybe little bit of both. 301 is a keeper! I believe it’s time to further explore and maximize my investment. So, I ordered a heavier/thicker aluminum platter (topped with gun metal matt) and brass oil bearing to try it out. And more importantly, a custom plinth with dual arm boards. Opted for much sought after Hawaiian Koa in Satin finish with Brass arm-boards. The plinth weighs about 85lbs and arguably his best work off late. I can’t wait to experience it in my Man Cave…expected delivery around April 2025. Cheers! SUT will be here after Capitol Audio for further exploration :-) |
To have the most attractive aesthetic does add cost, especially if a professional Cabinet Maker Service is to supply fascia materials and carry out the finishing. Spray Paint Coating as a Fascia Finishing can be much more cost effective. I am today more Wed to a aesthetic that has Honesty, the structure is not masked. Mass Plinth and Idler Drives are from an era, when not too much was known about materials that are with an intrinsic property for Damping/Dissipation. There are extra options today for selecting a Plinths function. Where Mass is a Sink to absorb motor energy, reducing energies transferred through the Platter to the Stylus. Damping/Dissipation, where energies are canned through the material and substantially reduced in their impact on other local materials. There is plenty to be read on a forum like Lenco Heaven, to produce a basic idea for how each in use are perceived. My recollections are those who moved on from a Mass Plinth have not returned to the structure. Damping/Dissipation has its attractions. I am also in the prefer Damp/Diss Camp.
|
“What specifically do you not like about the DAS plinth? The finish and build quality leaves lot to be desired, certainly not worth the asking price. Others may disagree with my assessment and that’s ok. The plinth is on the lighter side and lacks appropriate mass needed to reject the excess energies produced by the motor and the platter bearing. You probably know this, a poorly made plinth will store and then amplify those energies with such efficiency that they encroach upon the music. I may not have the worst made plinth but it is certainly not what I had hoped for. The plinth appears to be made from constrained plywood and layered with a polished veneer. The bottom plate may very well be MDF layer for all I know. It took lot of experimenting with different footers to drain the negative energies away from plinth. It’s working well for now, however I wouldn’t hesitate to replace it when I cross path with something wildly superior; both in terms of build and aesthetics. |
Bamboo Board with three tiers as the minimum and compressed on both planes, is a improved Board for intrinsic Damping/Dissipation Properties over most of the usual board types seen used for Plinth construction. A 401 listened to, mounted on a Compressed Bamboo Board Plinth, is my most impressed listen I can recollect. Compressed Bamboo Board as referred to above does not cost too much. As a ,material it can be further enhanced for the attractive intrinsic properties, by applying thinned oils for it to absorb. I recollect seeing Shellac referred to as well as a Treatment to improve the properties, all good on my camp, as aesthetics are also being dealt with as well. |
"When you buy something like DAS plinth you are buying weetbix wrapped in xmas paper." That's a little harsh, no? I think most (maybe all) DAS plinths are 100% birch ply (not counting the veneer obviously) with the exception of the ones with rounded top corners that I mentioned above. Those have one layer of MDF on the top. Look at these pics. These are all birch ply since they do not have large radiused top corners. Why would you call that a weetbix wrapped in xmas paper? Not trying to argue at all. Just trying to understand what you're saying. Seems like pretty solid construction to me. https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/LO4AAOSwnz9h20LM/s-l1600.webp https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/o-UAAOSwcVphkLUw/s-l1600.webp
|
