@snackeyp Interested to know if you still own the Harbeth M40.2 Anniversary. I'm debating on this speaker or 40.1. My preference is a warm, smooth sound with beautiful midrange. I've loved my P3ESRs (not the Anniversary or XD version) for 10+ years.
Harbeth 30.1 or 40.1
I would like to get a pair of Harbeth, and wondering if 30.1 or 40.1 is better. My room size is about 18’ x 16’. I currently have a pair of Spatial Audio X5 with large 12” mid range driver. I would say I listen in low to low-medium volume for Jazz and vocals. Is 40.1 too big for my area? I am afraid if I am not listening to what it is supposed to sound like if I don’t turn up the volume.
however, if I buy the 30.1, is that I should get a pair of sub? Versus for 40.1, I assumed I don’t need subs?
however, if I buy the 30.1, is that I should get a pair of sub? Versus for 40.1, I assumed I don’t need subs?
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I have had very interesting results with different amps and my M40.3's. My room (22x24x9) is terrible with bass under 40hz....but also is a bit active around 100hz..so it is quite tricky to get a good balance. By far the best amp has been my current Parasound JC5. The M40.3's really take advantage of high power SS amps with strong damping factor. I ran MC275's strapped mono for a couple weeks. Midrange was sublime, but bass and any lower control was totally absent. MC601 monoblocks before that which sounded great, but just didn't have the bass control that the JC5 has. I have never owned a speaker that was more sensitive to different amplifiers. Those who say all amps sound the same are delusional, IMO. |
If you choose to go with a solid state amp, the Plinius SA 102 gave me the most satisfaction of the solid state amps I tried with my 40.1's. There's one recently listed (Listing ID: lisa4409) at a reasonable price that was recently recapped. I still prefer tubes with my 40.1's (Music Reference RM9 MK2, McIntosh MC275 MKV, VAC 70/70)... but the Plinius was still good... just not a s good as the aforementioned tube amps. If you are a tube guy as you say, you won't be satisfied with SS,IMO. |
@gte357s Yes, I agree it's tremendously confusing. There have been reports of really excellent performance with Vinnie Rossi products, that aren't that powerful and have a tube front end. Likewise, many swear by the combination of the LFD NCSE which is only 70W in its most powerful incarnation. big_greg just posted above, and I also know of someone very happily driving them with a Linear Tube Audio LTA Z40 integrated, which is under 50W. So there's a real diversity of opinion; I can't think of an example where there's more diversity, actually. If you like the sound you're getting, perhaps there's no need to change. My suggestion was to perhaps try to borrow a powerful SS amp just to see what difference it made (particular in the bass region). On the other hand, tube watts do tend to be more powerful than ss watts, so perhaps try and borrow a 75W push-pull or ultralinear tube amp. If you go on the Harbeth User Group website, you'll find a thread with owners posting lists of amps they've used. Shaw has some pretty extreme views on amps, but it's very enlightening to see the range of models people are listing. |
@twoleftears I downloaded an app and finally got the number on how loud I listen to. My max volume is around 90dB. Average can get up to 85dB. There is also a weighted average which I don’t really know what’s the difference, but it is much lower at 78dB. I am at about 3.5-4 m away. I got a suggestion from someone that, I should leave about 20dB head room, ie. 100dB at 3.5m. Then I plug into a calculator in a web site, it turns out the following: 60W -> 94.95 dB 80W -> 96.2 dB 100W -> 97.17 dB 120W -> 97.97 dB 150W -> 98.93 dB So, it seems your suggestion of 100-150W is spot on. Then, it seems the only option is SS. I am a tube guy, have switch to tube amps 8 years ago and never look back. I am a bit hesitant to go back to SS gear. So, my first decision need to be made is, do I get 60-80W tube amp, or 100-150W SS amp. i read comments both ways. Some say he try SS and don’t like it, then get a McIntosh 275 and very happy. Some say he move to Luxman and Accuphase and they are as good as tube. |
@arturgorniak is the extreme case of someone who believes 40 series Harbeths need serious power. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/harbeth-40-2-40th-anniversary-with-simaudio-mono-blocks At the other extreme, I've read posts from people driving them with tube amps well under 50 W. But I think you are reporting the lowest. For a real comparison/contrast, I think you need to aim for 100 or 150W SS. |
@jtcf thanks. Yes, I am not planning to buy it immediately, but be prepared when something comes up in the used market. Actually, the weakest link in my system now is the DAC, if I judge by the price. I am using a Audio-gd NFB-3 which is an entry level DAC bought 8 yrs ago. I originally plan to upgrade that first. I bought a Topping dx7 pro, it is too bright for the X5 and the Bluetooth keeps dropping so I returned it. Maybe it will match well with the Harbeth to bring some sparkles. My Audio-gd now is a very smooth DAC. |
I finally received the 40.1 yesterday and had a brief session. The first impression is that, compared to the Spatial Audio X5, it has much more bass, including mid bass, despite that the X5 has an active subwoofer! The X5 sounds a bit more live like, probably because of the open baffle design. The X5 also sounds brighter with more detail. It is both good and bad. For some recordings, it can sound fatiguing. The Harbeth is more warm, and does not sound harsh for those records that sound a bit harsh on the X5. There are always trade offs. Back to the amp, the Almarro can drive it to my normal listening level without problem. The volume knob is between 10-11 o’clock position. Even my 300B amp can drive it no problem. As you know, I never know what I missed until I try it. But I don’t need louder, I am looking for better sound. I think people say the bass will be improved with an amp with more power? What about adding a preamp? My 300B is custom built. The schematic is originally a power amp, and I ask the builder to add two volume knobs. So, if I use it what it originally design as, I can add a preamp. Which way do you think will give better music? Buying the 60W, hybrid, McIntosh MA252, or add a Supratek/Coincident preamp to my 300B? |
@ pdreher Agreed - My experiences with the 30.1’s and the 40.2’s are similar to yours - especially with a good SS amp that brings out the best in the Harbeths. I did consider the SHL5+ with the Rel subs - but, decided the 30.1’s or 40.2’s with the Hegel H590 Integrated SS amp - sounds better to me - much richer, organic sound, while having a very clear, detailed and transparent sound brought out by the SS amp. Though, if I were going to use a lesser SS amp or tube amp... I’d prolly... prefer the SHL5+. |
Thank you every one. I missed that there is a page 2 so only see the comments now. as suggested, I decided to have an audition first, but then I found out the seller is quite far away from me. So, an audition is not preferred. Eventually, I gave an offer and it is accepted. So now, the fight between my left and right brain is done. My emotion won. =) I will use with the Almorro for a while, until I sold my other gears. |
RE: the Harbeths... I’m trying them with a "lowly" ATI AT6012 SS amp right now, which is specifically designed for my Linkwitz Orions. And... as you might have guessed (if you know Harbeths)... the AT6012 is making them sound very much like the YouTube videos I referenced - greater tranparency, and clarity, with more controlled bass and mids. Still have the great Harbeth rich mids, but with greater detail and clarity, and less boomy base. Though - I would note... I think the room treatments in those videos do a lot to achieve the sound you hear in those videos. So... it would seem... you can achieve the great sound in those YouTube videos... IF... you find the right SS amp to drive and control the Harbeths. My AR150SE may ultimately produce much the same sound (after full burn-in)... we’ll see. But, if you don’t want to have to wait for the burn in of a tube amp - I think you’ll be surprised at the great sound they can produce with the right SS amps. I’m guessing, the Hegels, the ATI’s, and the McIntosh MA252 or MA352 can all do that - just so long as the amp has a very "neutral" sound and lots of current and damping to clear up the bass and mids. And... I’m sure... the Maggies with the right amps can produce as impressive a sound. I’ve got the Peter Gunn modded Maggie 1.6 Magnestands, which have a superb sound also - may have a bit more clarity and soundstage than the Harbeths. Despite the fact the Magnestands have much better bass and dynamics than the stock Maggies - the Harbeths may still best them in those areas, which when added to the rich mids of the Harbeths, may give the edge to the Harbeths - close, hard to say. |
There's always socks, foam, etc. that you could stuff in the ports in a pinch. But I really don't think they'll overload, so long as you don't have them stuck in the corners. That said, if you like the Spatials and liked the big Maggies on audition, no box speaker, however good, and the Harbeths are among the best, can do some things a planar/open baffle speaker. On the other hand, they can do some things better. You'll get a frisson from the 40.1's, but it won't necessarily be exactly the same as one from and 3.7i or a 20.7. |
You'll always be able to find a used pair of 30.1's or 30.2's, but 40.1's come available only a few times a year... and local availability is a huge plus as you avoid shipping costs. If you get the 30.1's you'll likely be content, but also always second guessing how much better your sound could have been had you bought the Harbeth flagship model 40.1. Low to medium volume jazz and vocals mimics my listening habits and I've yet to own another speaker that comes close performance wise to the 40.1's, including stints with Dynaudio Confidence C2's, C4's, Daedalus Ulysses and Harbeth SHL5's with a REL sub. Also consider many giving their opinions to your post have never owned 40.1's... or if they did, maybe their listening habits/musical tastes don't mirror yours. |
mapman, 'In any case choosing speakers based on Sound on a YouTube video alone is very risky business IMHO.' I'd second that. Throwing an extra transducer between yourself and the recording of the original seems risky at best. Unless there is a some way to record demos to play back on YouTube which give a close representation of the sound heard in the room. I've seen production values on YouTube (microphones and cameras) look quite impressive, but are they accurate? It would be great if it was possible and then we could all play them back via a neutral pair of headphones (or monitors) if we wanted to etc. Perhaps someone can answer that? |
well ..since the M40 is local why not ask them to demo for you ? you can bring your amp there and maybe their room is similar to yours . Or even if Room smaller You can get the feeling if the bass too much or you can live with it !Me own the C7 and now M30 ,my room is small just bout 10x11 and listen average Level in near field ...sound is beautiful and tight 👍 |
Just to add, I audition the B&W 802 with high Classe amp at the dealer many years ago, and I got the same feeling, full and nothing exciting. Then I hear a big Maggie, and I got goose bumps. The singer seems to just floating in front of me. So ... just to give a sense of my listening taste. Do you think the I will be happy with the M40.1? If it is like the B&W, then I will avoid them, although they don’t seem like the case. |
Once again, thank you for all the opinions. Even though logically I think I should wait for the M3 to come up, But gosh, I can’t get the 40.1 out of my head! I keep coming back to read all the comments. I read them all three times now. One of the reason is that the M40.1 is a local sale, and I know these speakers can be rare to come up locally. My emotion keep telling me that if I don’t buy them now, I may not have a second chance. The C7 and SHL5 plus suggestions come up a couple times. I researched on them, for some reason, they don’t speak to me. Firstly, I don’t like their look. Then I listen to all the sound clips I can find on the internet, and none of them speaks to me like the M30.1, and M40.1. And the M40.2 is way out of my budget. My speaker journey now is rather short: B&W CDM 7 NT -> Zu Omen Def -> Spatial Audio X5 I remember the B&W sounds dull no matter how much power I throw at it, it seems I like more life-like, holographic sound. This is why I choose Spatial with OB design. One more question, I hope the Harbeth, even they are not efficient, they sound different from B&Ws. Although I can’t generalized the CDM7nt as the B&W sound, but I got similar feeling after auditorium many box, not so efficient speakers at different shops. |
@dodgealum i am with you -- can lead horse to water but it may not drink lol @big_greg like your report - i would only add that all but the tiniest harbeths do benefit from strong amp control of the woofer(s) - therefore hegels are so good a match as many have found yes there is great nuance and magic to using tube amplification, but therein lies the trade... bass control is sacrificed and bass impact lessened in exchange for midrange magic ... this particularly key for 40 and hl5 - where with the wrong/weak amp the bass can bloat and slow to a crawl |
Big Harbeth fan. Heard them all and owned the C-7s for many years. the M40 is an amazing full range speaker--one of my favorites of all time. IMHO, too big for your room--you won't get the best from them--they like room to breath like all Harbeth models. M30 is my least favorite Harbeth--by far. It does not have the same magic that their other models possess. For your space the HL-5 or C-7 would be my recommendation. In that room you won't need a sub and in my experience one is not the preferred way to go anyway. Both speakers are readily available used so pick up a pair and try them out! |
It's a definite yes, space and budget permitting. I didn't want to imply that the subs weren't integrated well, they were, but it was just a different experience than when I listened to his setup with the Super SHL5 Plus. With the 40.2's the bass had more presence and was closer to what you would experience with live music. With the Super SHL5 Plus, the bass was tighter, more dynamic, and punchier, but maybe less "organic" sounding. Neither were bad, quite the opposite, just different. |
big_greg, Good write-up. Thanks. I think we could predict that there might be more subwoofer integration issues with the 40.2s. I would have imagined that they’d barely need one. So maybe there’s still room for improvements in the sub integration settings. So I guess that’s a qualified yes to the 40.2s. |
I spent the evening yesterday at my friend's house listening to his 40.2s. His room is fairly small (less than 20 feet on a side? I didn't ask the dimensions). Electronics were his Line Magnetic 805ia integrated, fed mainly by a Schiit Bifrost. We also spun some records on his Pro-Ject Xtension 10 Evolution turntable with a Manley Chinook phono stage. His room is heavily treated - absorption panels and diffusers on the front and side walls, diffusers on the ceiling, bass traps in the front left and back right corner. There's a subwoofer in each corner where the bass traps are. I first heard the Super HL5 Plus and the P3ESR at his house. The 40.2s are much bigger, and they're beautiful. He was running them with the grills off. When we started listening, I don't remember what track he played first, but what first caught my attention was the imaging. The center image was incredibly rock solid. I felt like if I wanted to, I could stand up and walk up to the singer. Her voice was coming from a spot right between the speakers and at the height of someone standing there. The 40.2s have more presence than the Super HL5 Plus, we listened at moderate volumes for the most part and the detail and texture of the voices and instruments was fantastic at low to moderate volumes. When played loud, the music had a visceral impact, you could feel it as well as hear it, no doubt in part due to the subs. The 40.2s have a warmer presentation than the Super HL5 Plus, but don't give anything up in terms of detail. The imaging and soundstage was almost holographic. The one word that kept coming to mind while listening, was "texture". They did the midrange so well and voices, guitars, and strings were rendered with a palpable sense of intimacy, as if they were there in the room with you, very "organic". If there was a downside to the 40.2s, the bass seemed less controlled and dynamic than when I heard the Super HL5 Plus speakers in his system. I asked about the subs, and he said he had to lower the gain settings to integrate them with the bass output of the 40.2s (which I expected). With the Super HL5 Plus and his subwoofer setup, the bass in his listening space was very dynamic, going from not noticeable to prominent in a super fast and controlled way. It was the best I've heard bass sound in any system when he had the Super HL5 Plus. It was more present and less dynamic with the 40.2s. Had I not experienced the setup he had with the Super HL5 Plus, I would have loved the bass in his current setup and don't think there was anything "bad" about it, but the overall presentation was much different. While I enjoyed them, I didn't leave wanting to replace my Super HL5 Plus speakers with the 40.2's. The 40.2s are better in many ways, but I really enjoy my Super HL5 Plus and think the bass of the 40.2s might be too much for my listening space. They are definitely too big physically for the space I have available, but they are beautiful and sound incredible. If I had the space and the budget for them, they would be wonderful. |
While I've only heard the SHL5+ in stores (e.g. in Seattle), it always struck me as cut from another cloth, and aiming to do something rather different. Just look at the drivers that it uses. I heard the 30.1's at CAF and thought them excellent when driven with a high-powered tube amp. It was the 40.2 iteration that sought to deal with the bass issues, over the 40.1, and are indeed much more domestic-friendly. I don't understand the comment about 40's being too loud--there is a volume control, after all. The 40's are large, awkward-shaped, and heavy, but that's what you pay not only to get the bass extension but also the wave-launch from the wider baffle that provides a more realistic impression of real instruments in real space. |
Once again, thank you very much for all the information. To summarized all the pros and cons, logically, I should get the 30.1 and not 40.1, because: 1. For the price of 40.1, I can buy the 30.1 + McIntosh MA252. 2. I can’t afford to buy the 40.1 + MA 252 at the same time. 3. Since 30.1 is easier to drive, I can use my Almarro 318 for the interim, and that should yield better result than the 40.1. 4. The 40.1 is huge, much bigger and heavier than I thought. I am concern to buy something so difficult to move. And my wife won’t like it.5. 40.1 is harder to sell if it doesn’t work out. 6. 40.1 maybe too big for my listening area. 7. I listened to almost all videos I can find on Youtube, and I like the sound of 30.1 more. It sounds more lively. I guess it is because it is easier to drive. 8. If I want more bass for 30.1, I still have an option to add a subwoofer. |
I have not tried the SHL5's, but they have a similarly impressive sound to the 30.1's / 30.2's, but with a bit less dominant bass, and somewhat brighter highs. It's very possible that they would be just as pleasing to you, though they don't sound as impressive on the YouTube videos. Sometimes I think I might try them for a pair that have less dominate bass and brighter highs, though maybe a bit less rich mids. But, if you're after the sound that you hear in the YouTube videos, I'd start with the 30.1's / 30.2's and a matching integrated amp. I think you'll find they will provide just the sound you're after at lower to moderate volume levels. They're easy to sell, if you want to try one of the others. Or, you might end up keeping them and using them in another room. |
I have owned M40s, M30.2 Anniversaries, and SHL5's I have used in a room 12.5 feet by 22 feet by nine feet high. The M40s, in their original version, were not suited to my room and overwhelmed with bass regardless of placement or even stuffing socks in the ports. I understand the 40.1 and 40.2 iterations of that speaker have tamed the bass somewhat for domestic settings; provided, however, the people I know who have been happiest with 40.1s and 40.2s listen to them in remarkably small rooms, not large room. Have others noticed this? I have heard the 40.2s sound stunning in a large room at Deja Vu West in La Jolla, California, and that made me want them badly, though I have not gone that direction because of my cautionary experience with the earlier model. I have also been reluctant to buy a speaker as large as the 40.2 as it was very large, heavy (83.8 pounds) and difficult to move. The M30.2 did not suit my taste despite their obvious excellence. I think I like something with a bit more extended bass and rounder sound. YMMV. As for my SHL5s, I have owned them for many years and have always enjoyed them. I have never directly compared them to 40.1 or 40.2 models and when I had the M40s, the bass problems with the M40s prohibited me from thinking it would be a fair comparison. The SHL5s (not the "+" version) extend to 45 Hz on the bottom end versus 35 Hz with the 40.2s. If you do not feel comfortable owning and lugging the 40.2s around, the SHL5s or SHL5+s might deserve your consideration. At about 35 pounds, you need not become a gym rat to qualify as an owner. |
Agree with @twoleftears , an 18' x 16' room is far from small and can accommodate at least 2-3 feet of clearance that most speakers need from surrounding walls to sound their best. Based upon the listening preferences the OP described in his initial post, I'd be shocked if the 40.1's don't exceed his expectations. |
I have both the 30.1’s and 40.2’s in a room about 20’ x 20’ x 9’. Driving them with a Yggy DAC (one of the best), AR Ref 5SE preamp, and an A21 (to be replaced by a new AR Ref 150SE tomorrow). They’re both superb, very much like a dynamic Quad ESL57 with bass - just like they sound on YouTube. But... I think the 40.2’s are indeed almost too big for my room. They’re very loud and the bass is almost overwhelming - in a room that has no soft surfaces or upholstery to dampen the sound. But, the mids and highs are incredible, clear and detailed, without being strident, as well as rich and organic. And with a superb soundstage. Though, I do have a pair of Townshend Super-Tweeters, which adds tone, tenor and air. The bass is so strong, I’m thinking of using a DSP or Equalizer to tame it. The 30.1’s have much the same sound, which fills the room, but a little less prominent bass. I would note you really need an amp that can control the woofers - they require very careful system matching to perform to their potential. I would likely use the same amps you see driving them so well on YouTube: the MA252 or MA352, or the Hegel H360, H390, or H590. Prolly the Hegel amps, which have superb damping factors, though the tube output of the McIntosh amps sound great with them too. That’s one aspect I like about the set up I’m using, the AR Ref 5SE adds just enough tube sound to them to make them sound superb. I’m hoping the Ref 150SE maintains that sound, with a bit greater resolution, clarity and air, while improving the control over the woofers. The AR amps have a more neutral sound than many tube amps. I’m not sure I would use other types of tube amps with them, other than possibly, something like the Atma-sphere M60, etc. - that have the current to properly control them, and to produce the resolution and clarity they can provide, if matched properly. Their sound is already very, very rich - almost too much so, without adding an overly rich tube sound. But... I think... you would be pleased with the sound of the 30.1’s / 30.2’s driven by one of those amps. And... I’d get the Yggy, or one of the other R2R Dacs that sound similar or better (the Audio Mirror Trubadour or Dennifrips Terminator). Though, the Hegel already has a superb DAC, though it may not have the R2R sound, it nevertheless sounds superb. So... one of the setups you see on YouTube that sound so incredible will probably please you the most. I’d prolly go with the Hegel and the 30.1’s / 30.2’s. And what a bargain you have with the that set up! |
Vu of Deja Vu, who's a major Harbeth dealer, stated to me that the 40.2's needed 2' of clearance from side walls and 3' of clearance from front wall (behind them), all measured from the relevant edge of the cabinet. The experience of the gentlemen in the link I posted earlier suggests that you can get away with less and still get very satisfying sound. |
Yes I have only heard 40.2 set up in large room away from walls. In smaller room closer to walls or corner with more bass reinforcement from the room I might be concerned going in about too much bass and no way to tame it other than eq or tone controls., which is always an option. They are big! “Full range” speakers in a smaller room is not always a good thing. Something to be aware of. Too much bass can be detrimental to the overall sound, obscuring the otherwise lovely midrange and detail, and very hard to tame. |
@gt357s mon 30 are midrange oriented monitor more for semi nearfield listening - will need bass reinforcement if run full range deliver dbs into 18x16 room mon 40.1 are very full range, perhaps overly so... i had mon 40.1 before, they boomed, need to be far away from room boundaries - have you seen these speakers in the flesh? they are huge boxes, know what u will be getting, if this is anything but a dedicated sound room there may be aesthetics issues otoh, the c7 and shl5 bridge the gap between the two - c7 small box but more balanced high thru low, shl5 basically a larger version of c7 with supertweeter, similar voicing - 18x16 is good size but how will you set up the triangle, how close to room boundaries and therefore how much bass reinforcement? |
@gte357sI ran a 4 sub array with my SHL5+40ths in a small room (10x12 minus closets). The sub array really helped. Now I am in a bigger listening room (14 x 17) and the SHL5+40ths really opened up at louder volumes.The sub array really helped in this room as well. I have not heard the M40.1 or 2 but can vouch for the SHL5s.They fill the room without effort. Seems like an even bigger room will let them play more into their "sweet spot". I would strongly suggest considering the SHL5s and using the extra cash on a subwoofer solution. |
@gte357s My amp was a Lyngdorf TDAI3400 when I got the speakers but after that I tried an LFD NCSE 3 and prefer it. It’s a solid state amp that sounds more like tubes. Great amp, but very simple, and lacks the convenience features of most amps, most notably a remote control. My second favorite amp with these speakers is the Primaluna EVO 400. I might buy one in the future as a second amp because it’s really that good. |
Long time 40.1 owner here. Your room size is fine for 40.1's... and no, you don't need a powerful amp... especially for listening to jazz and vocals at moderate levels. A good quality amp (I prefer tubes) with 75 WPC is all you need. I've also owned Harbeth SHL5's... but they don't compete with 40.1's in my experience. |
I owned 30.1's and now own 40.2 anniversaries. My answer is, it depends on how serious you are about music listening. For me, sitting down and listening is the highlight of my day. I listen actively and lose myself in the music. If I were buying speakers for a common living area where I was unable to listen this way, I would probably choose the 30 series as they are smaller and still sound amazing. For me the 30.1's were fantastic sounding speakers, but left me wanting more bass. My room is smaller than yours (12x14) so you definitely don't need to be afraid of the 40.2's. They will sound great in your room with proper set-up. I ran a sub with my 30.1's and really liked the sound, but eventually I grew out of them and purchased some 40.1's. The difference was not subtle. I loved them so much and had no intention of upgrading until an opportunity to buy the 40.2A speakers at a great price came my way last year. I am so happy I made this move. I do not know if the new XD model is better than the anniversary version but I am not even curious about that. The 40.2 line is the pinnacle of sound for me. I don't regret the journey I took to get here. In fact, it was the right thing to move through the line-up, as it has helped me understand the difference between these models. That said, if you have the means to get the 40.2's I do not think you will be disappointed. |
Very good information, than you every one. I always want to try McIntosh gear. And I am planning to get the MA252 hybrid to go with the Harbeth. The Ma252 is rated as follows: Power Output per Channel 100 Watts into 8 Ohms 160 Watts into 4 Ohms Maximum Output (Balanced / Unbalanced) 8V Unbalanced i read Harbeth needs good current, but this is often not listed in the specification. Is the MA252 good (enough) for 40.1? Or I need the more powerful Ma352? That goes into the total cost consideration. |
Right I think it was LTA tube amp of some sort at CAF driving Spatials. Tube amp but LTA is a unique design and does not sound like most tube amps. Much lower output impedance I believe which is a good thing to my ears..the best of both good SS and tubes together. I tend to think of CJ amps as your stereotypical somewhat warmer tube amp sound but really did not hear much if any of that with the CJ/Harbeth setup at Deja Vu. Of course I am guessing those very large and heavy CJ amps cost at least 30-50K or so, maybe more, and sounded really very good. Most of the other smaller tube amp setups I heard there with much smaller Harbeth and Audio Note speakers: yes. warmer, softer, less detailed...not impressive especially for the asking price to me in many cases. It's easy to focus on speakers but what is feeding them will have a lot to say about how they sound. Harbeth or others. |
That's very funny like @mapman I heard the 40.1s at Deja Vu Audio and Spatial at Cap Audiofest. I heard the 30.2's at both Deja Vu and Cap Audiofest. I like all 3 speakers actually I thought Spatial Audio with LTA was one of the best rooms at Cap Audiofest last year. Harbeth, both models, will be notably a bit warmer than Spatial with more richness if not depth to the bass. As far as bass at louder volumes the 40.1 is 85db sensitivity so you do have to give them some power to open up though they are pretty benign impedance wise. If you can buy used Harbeth's are an easy resell so you will have a chance to audition at home that is a solid plan. Good luck! |
The 40.2's at Deja Vu were, for me, the best audition--the best-sounding speakers--I've ever had in an audio store. After just a few seconds of a Beethoven piano concerto I let out a "wow". If I could have 75% of that at home I'd be a happy camper. I'm less sure about the 40.1 but there isn't an absolute need to drive the 40.2 with more than 60 or 70 quality watts. Yes, perhaps more is better, but quality is also better or quantity. You'll need to add sub(s) to the 30.1 to get the bass quality of the 40's, so something to consider when considering financial outlay. I agree, though, that you can only ultimately tell at home with an audition there. |
@gte357s Yes, totally different setups in all regards. Very hard to compare concisely other than both were top notch in their own way in my opinion, though much different. Harbeth 40.2 was at Deja Vu Audio in Northern VIrginia in their large showroom off their top of the line Conrad Johnson amps. Spatial (not sure of model) was at Capital Audiofest 2018 in an average size hotel room. Do not recall amp used but was more modest as I recall. The designer/owner was seated right next to me and we chatted as I listened. The biggest difference was in the overall presentation and soundstage as one might imagine with two such different designs with different dispersion characteristics. The Harbeth presentation was unique in that the speakers were set up a good 1/3 of the way into the room, and there was good soundstage detachment and some depth but not all the way back towards the rear wall as is often the case with many less boxy modern speaker designs. Donna Godchaux’s vocal on Sunrise from Terrapin Station album struck me as particularly spectacular with the Harbeth streamed from my home library via Plex on my Smartphone using whatever high end DAC it was they used. Maybe Audio Note? I think " warmth" will vary with gear used. The demo I heard surprisingly did not strike me as warm sounding, more neutral with very good detail and no fatigue. I suspect both sound their best with room to breath but should work fine as well in tighter quarters. In tighter quarters, I suspect the largest Harbeths might be a bit of overkill. They are very good sounding large box speakers, but I have to wonder how some other similar larger size box designs I have heard over the years for way less cost would fare against them. Overall they remind me of old Ohm model C2 speakers, which I also used to like very much, but listed for $700 or so a pair back in the 1970s. Of course I never heard those running off large high end tube amps like the CJs at Deja Vu Audio back then so again apples/oranges. I wonder..... I’ve heard Zu many times at CAF and they have yet to grab me. |
