HAVE CABLES EVER TAKEN YOUR SYSTEM FROM SOUNDING JUST OK TO SOUNDING GREAT? Experiences ?

@mitch2 i have always let folks know that I’m affiliated with a brand but I have have been an audiophile first for the previous 15 years prior to that. I’m not here to trash any other brand or anyone else’s opinion. I want to know what people think.  I want to know what they hear when they try cables. What they think about them etc. I’m not here to sell anyone anything. I do this in my free time. I have ran a successful law firm for 22 years.  But I’m an audiophile first. I enjoy the hobby and the opinions of those in it. I been on Audiogon for the last 17 years or so. I come in and out. I do what I do to gauge what people are doing and thinking.  Even the loaner program I do requires nothing of the borrower. I just allow people to try things. Follow their own minds in their own systems. I was on the other side where people hype you up,to buy something then disappear when it doesn’t work. My affiliation allows me to not do that to anyone. It allows me to help where I can and where I can’t no cost to anyone. 

"Our Infigo Audio cables"

@calvinj - The wording above, your use of "we" and "us" in your posts, as well as references to loaning out cables and the "infigo cables demo program" leads me to wonder whether you have an industry affiliation with Infigo Audio?  If I missed that disclosure in this thread or in another thread, then sorry.  Also, it doesn't matter to me if you are affiliated but, if yes, that helps me understand the thread a bit better.

OP  Cables taken an OK sound system to a great sound?

A system's sound can be better than before but it can't never be great. Is there anyone happy with his system sound and stop upgrade/change a component? I don't think so. "Great" means a total satisfaction in audio. My system is great because I can't improve it's sound anymore and there is no other system sounds better than my system. Still I'm not happy with my system's sound. Why? What is the use of a perfect sound system if all recordings in the world sound dirty and distorted.

Alex/Wavetouch audio

@rpeluso - First post on this subject I have seen that I can agree with...all I will add to this discussion is that replacing an obviously bad cable (open or shorted) with one that functions as designed is all the difference I can hear. I have replaced cheap flimsy molded cables that came with a new piece with significantly better made cables and could discern no difference in the sound quality. That said the better made cables fit better, are more physically secure and look better, but sonically, no different. I can think of much better places to put 500-5000 dollars than on a set of fancy cables.

"The reason tonearm cables actually make a big difference is because they are handling very low voltage signals, and thus are very susceptible to interference and LCR effects."

Are not all cables subject to the same type of distortion albeit at different scales? Which begs the question - what is done to different TT cartridge cable wires to make some more desirable than others?

I have tested several different cables in my system and noticed subtle changes. It's nothing dramatic, but it's noticeable to me. I'm no engineer or scientist, and many knowledgeable people on this forum can explain why cables do or don't sound different. The only thing no one knows better than me is what sounds good to me. 

@phd the approach we take is that the should just get out of the way.  Should should have the sound of your amp and source and speakers. Cables should not be a bottle neck is the approach we take 

I did a full loom of expensive cables….when back and forth with the Blue Jean cables I had…sent the expensive cables back saved thousands of dollars…the difference was hardly noticeable….

Essentially cables are a sort of tone control, and they are system dependent. Yes, they do make a significant difference whether it's good or bad. Just be prepared to shell out some bucks to experiment.

Yes, I am experiencing this right now.  And it involves several cables in my system with the key to unlocking this experience being a Shunyata Alpha Zitron HC power cable on my power distributor.  When I replaced a Shunyata Venom HC with the used Alpha I was at a loss to understand what I was hearing at first.  More detail, better timing, better spatial resolution in the soundstage, more textured and nuanced bass, just across the board more musical.  This was true for both my digital and analog front ends.

I had previously done some blind testing with a handful of different coax SPDIF cables and decided it was worth making a big upgrade to connect my streamer to my DAC.  I bit the bullet and bought a used Chord cable that cost a lot (for me) with no regrets.  But before the Shunyata Alpha went in the very front end of my system the difference in sound between my best optical cable and the Chord coax was not so great that I couldn’t have been happy with the optical cable.  After putting the new power cord in, the distance opened up between the performance of the good coax and the optical cable is a listening chasm that I just can’t bridge.  The coax cable is much, much better.

My most surprising cable transformation experience that came after adding the Shunyata Alpha has to do with changing analog interconnects from my DAC.  I was using Nanotec #207 cables with Furutech rhodium plugs as my reference for years on both my digital and analog front ends.  I have a number of other interconnects ranging from $200-$500, nothing special and all clearly beat in my estimate by the Nanotecs.  

I started to have problems with the left channel of my digital front end dropping out, and since my DAC was less than a year old, I suspected the interconnect.  I pulled out my box of wires and started going through all the possible replacements and I was stopped short when I put in a $23.81 knock off cable from China.  It had the same mysterious and wonderful effect that the Shunyata Alpha had on the sound.  It just sounded completely different than any of my other interconnects.  Huge and wonderful bass, warm but detailed midrange and treble and enveloping soundstage.  Over time the sound organized and the bass receded to just right.  This is a terrific cable and just what my system needs right now.

The reason I was so surprised by this result is that I had previously listened to this cable in both my main system and another decent but modest system and had rejected it from both as very nice looking and good sounding for twenty bucks, but not the final solution.  After significant run in time it is now my best sounding interconnect, besting wires from Audioquest, Wireworld, Nanotec and Silver Shadow that cost 10-25x the price of the Chinese wire. Someone who listened to my system recently and had been familiar with its sound before was so impressed they bought a whole loom of cables to try in their Naim/Rega/ATC set up.

Wiring is an important part of my system, and the effects of improved wiring are additive and highly system dependent.  

kn

@amitynick just sent a loaner out to a long time audiophile that I have grown to know. He literally is kicking himself for even listening because he said he thought he was done now he has to have them because they match his system so well. Sometimes it’s matching and sometimes the cable’s just get out if the way and let you get the best out of your equipment. 

@gavman i literally have tried a lot of cables since I started in this 20 years ago. Cables make a difference in all the systems I have tried. Our Infigo Audio cables are what I run in my system. I have loaned them out to people to try because I believed they have a positive affect and improvement on most systems they go in. I let people try them before they buy them so that they determine if it’s worth it to them without the risk. Some people like them so much they never get sent back annd they don’t come out of their systems.  Our ears  in our  systems should be the deciding factor. If you look at the cable deniers most shoot it down without even trying. I stay away from those guys. If you look at my original post it tells you share your EXPERIENCES! They come on the thread to share their scientific opinions and to snake oil name call. Never telling anyone what they tried and on what and when! You should never let someone he will never hear your system tell you why you won’t hear a change in a system that they don’t have and will never! THAT’S NOT SCIENCE THAT’S AGAINST COMMON SENSE! You are the one listening not them!  The other thing is the arrogance that exudes from their comments basically calling the rest of us stupid and deaf if we hear a change. Interesting 🤔

@squared80

Certainty is the enemy of knowledge

Answer to the OP:

Yes. When i was loaned a pair of Entreq Atlantis interconnects, replacing Tellerium Black. The difference was astounding. So much that the word 'difference' is inadequate; it was a complete transformation from good to utterly magical.

At the time i also compared them to a £2k pair of silver interconnects that were exceptional in isolation. The Entreqs made them sound ordinary, like they were missing the whole point compared to the magic of Entreq.

Since that moment my audio system's excellence stood atop three pillars:

Boulder, Focal and Entreq.

The view from the top utterly blew away the arguments of cable sceptics and proved they are talking from their behinds...or to be kind, maybe they've just never experienced Entreq.

Per Olof is clearly onto something that no-one else has tumbled.

yes

@steakster 

Which position is the right one? The most dramatic or the one that places the triangle where it was in the original recording? That’s the goal, right? Was it a live session?

In my system, cables have never made a significant difference. I’ve noticed slight changes, yes, but nothing extraordinary. At this point, I’ve stopped buying and selling cables - I’m done, I have what I need.

There sure are a lot of guys who wanna tell other people how ignorant they are when it comes to cables.  The same guys that will never hear what they do or don’t do in your system.  When I see folks making those comments. I turn them off completely.  Most of us have been doing this audio thing 20   30 40 years. We know what we are hearing and what we are not hearing at this point.  

More like, "Now that's more like it", is usually what I experience.  Nothing otherworldly.

No, because that doesn't happen if you're already using OFC cables at the proper gauge for the length of the run. Period. Anyone who thinks otherwise is lying or willfully ignorant. Science always beats snake oil marketing. Well, it should, but you'd never know that based on some of these replies.

Don’t mind anyone commenting but if you don’t believe that cables can make a difference.  Good for you. But it’s not a place to come argue about it. This ain’t the thread for you. 

Don’t mind anyone commenting but if you don’t believe that cables can make a difference.  Good for you. But it’s not a place to come argue about it. This ain’t the thread for you. 

Yes

15 years ago or so I auditioned the Shunyata Anaconda interconnects and speaker cables as an upgrade to my JPS lab superconductor+
(well regarded)

The improvements were so dramatic. I remember thinking if I have to mortgage my house these are not going back.

and they did not go back

about $12,000 at the time which was quite an outlay for me

didn’t regret it for a second

Worth every penny

Would not even consider chasing expensive cables/interconnects until my room treatment is completed. Way better "bang-for-the-buck" sound quality improvement with room treatments over cable changes.

"Other than tonearm cables,"

Those are cables.
 

The reason tonearm cables actually make a big difference is because they are handling very low voltage signals, and thus are very susceptible to interference and LCR effects.

I had a dealer recently say to me "other than tonearm cables, all the rest is bulls***.  I did not question him on this.  

Pretty accurate. You’ll get more improvement replacing a set of brass binding posts with copper than with replacing cheap copper cables with expensive copper cables. 

"Other than tonearm cables,"

Those are cables.

@deep_333 go ahead.  It’s not an out selling smthg. I want opinions on how good they are from people who try them.  It helps us knowing if real listeners like what they do or don’t do. 

@calvinj  I'll put the your name through to a cable connoisseur/collector who'll show up at my house tomorrow.

I'm more in the business of living vicariously through him and a few other dudes these days. 

@deep_333 o rn the infigo cables demo program. Would you like to,try something.  No cost you only pay shipping back.  

I swapped out AQ Fire XLRs for Firebirds and was truly shocked by the improvement. The Firebirds are more balanced, natural and refined. I also demoed the XLR Thunderbirds alongside the Firebirds. Surprisingly, the silver Fire and copper Thunderbirds sounded more alike than the silver Fire and silver Firebirds. The Firebirds are neutral and highly detailed without being fatiguing.

I use Canare Starquad cables throughout my system, mostly for noise rejection, and it's dead quiet.  The genius that is John Siau, agrees with this, and that is what they, (Benchmark), offer for sale with their components.

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/chatgpt-and-john-siau-discuss-star-quad-cables

Also on a recent Audioholics episode, he categorically lists the components in the audio chain that are most important to overall sound in terms of distortion, and guess what part of the chain is least important, that's right, cables.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIv79_NRASw

as with most of us, the cables that I use in my system have evolved overtime. Each time I swapped cables, I felt there was an improvement in the sound. I wouldn’t say that it was a tremendous difference, but it was subtle but better. After I started swapping in Shunyata research power cords and then speaker cables, I felt that for my system there was real synergy and a distinct positive improvement in sound. I wouldn’t say that my system went from good to great as a result, but there was definitely an improvement that made the system sound closer to what I like. Then I started upgrading my Shunyata cables from Alpha‘s to Sigma‘s and there was a noticeable step up in sound quality. The same thing occurred when I started to swap out my interconnects for Shunyata Sigma interconnects. A noticeable but small improvement. The bottom line, each time I upgraded a cable, it added some benefit to the sound. Cumulatively, I was very pleased with the result. Weather spending all that money on cables was worth the improvement in the sound quality is a matter of personal preference. To me, it was.

In 1995 I had the chance to cable my system with Transparent Reference. It was not a subtle difference! I tried the Super, the Ultra and the Reference all within a weeks time. you could point to the soundstage with the change of each set of cables and discern the difference each cable yielded.  The reference gave the most improvement. It provided more separation of instruments and voice. The soundstage was wider. I could distinguish vocals that were muddy with other cables. Try to find the original series used! People hold onto them! Joe

I had a dealer recently say to me "other than tonearm cables, all the rest is bulls***.  I did not question him on this.  

The cable upgrades I have made in my life were:

from the stuff that came with a rack system to Monster (I din't notice any improvement, but that does not mean that there was none)

then from Monster to RCA  Kimber PBJ (hard to say what the improvement was because at this time I also went from an integrated JVC Dolby Prologic integrated amp to Cary's entry level push-pul tube amp and a B&K HT preamp

then, after upgrading to ARC tubed monoblocks and a Cary preamp I went from the PBJ to balanced Kimber Silver Streak. With this "upgrade" I did hear a noticeable difference, particularly with the greater articulation of detail.  But I wouldn't go so far as to type that it was like a new component upgrade, but it was noticeable and it was better.

I've been going with the Silver Streak for around 26 years or so, and I'd love to listen to some other options, but I think there are other things I should spend money on before I get to playing with interconnects.  However, one thing that I did do (experimentally) was to insert a pair of RCA PBJs in between the preamp and amp, while  leaving the balanced Silver Streaks between the CDP and the pre.  I don't think that I like the sound of that configuration as much as I liked the SS all the way through.  I am just about to switch back.

@sls883 will extend a demo,to you of infigo cables if you are interested as well 

@deep_333 o rn the infigo cables demo program. Would you like to,try something.  No cost you only pay shipping back.  

Above a quality threshold for materials and deisgn/layup, improvements or just lateral moves, i.e., differences are miniscule even in the most resolving rooms + rigs even to a well trained listener. There is no such thing as "night and day".

Spotting differences between a 200 dollar cable i have (a very special one from a home grown Chinese brand) and a 5000 dollar cable that was gifted to me is like pulling teeth. I have passed a blind test sufficient times for statistical significance. But, most of you will not, guaranteed.

@calvinj 

From the mariad of greatly positive reviews with zero info of the tech (they won’t release any info), I’m trying to budget for expensive QSA products including QSA Lanedri cables.  Free 30day trial.  Check out review testimonials

Last night, I swapped out a decent copper cable ($200) for the Black Cat Silverstar 88 cable going between my amp and preamp.  It sounded good, but lacking a bit of clarity.  Not like listening through a blanket, but maybe a thin sheet.  Swapped the cables back and life is good again. Most people probably wouldn't even notice, but I know my system well and it was noticeable to me. 

I have had DNM Reson ICs make the sound more coherent which to me was better.  

Otherwise differences tend to be so minor I don't fret at all about it.

    "Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction."  (Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse , 1872) 

     "The abdomen, the chest, and the brain will forever be shut from the intrusion of the wise and humane surgeon,"  (Sir John Eric Ericksen, British surgeon, appointed Surgeon-Extraordinary to Queen Victoria 1873)

      "The super computer is technologically impossible.  It would take all of the water that flows over Niagara Falls to cool the heat generated by the number of vacuum tubes required." (Professor of Electrical Engineering, New York University)                        

      "There is no likelihood man can ever tap the power of the atom."  (Robert Millikan, Nobel Prize in Physics, 1923)

      "Man will never reach the moon regardless of all future scientific advances." (Dr. Lee DeForest, Father of Radio & Grandfather of Television)

      "Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible!" (Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895) 

      "The bomb will never go off.  I speak as an expert in explosives."  (Admiral William Leahy, re: US Atomic Bomb Project)

      "The difference between a ~$100 RCA and a $10,000 RCA is little to none at all (most of the improvement will be WELL below the audible range of humans).    (crawfishdaddi, Dunning-Kruger Exemplar)

     When the steam locomotive came on the scene; the best (scientific) minds proclaimed, "The human body cannot survive speeds in excess of 35MPH."

      Until recently (21st Century); and the advent of the relatively new science of Fluid Dynamics, the best (scientific) minds involved in Aerodynamics, could not fathom how a bumblebee stays aloft. 

     Often; Science has to catch up with the facts/phenomena of Nature and/or, "reality" (our universe). 

     I haven't been in school since the 60's, but- at Case Institute of Technology; the Physics Prof always emphasized what we were studying was, "Electrical THEORY."  He strongly made a point of the fact that no one had yet actually observed electrons (how they behave on the quantum level) and that only some things can really be called, "LAWS." (ie: Ohm, Kirchoff, Faraday)   

                         PERHAPS: that's changed in recent years and I missed it?

@cleeds ... uh, ok?

crawfishdaddi

I've been down this road a bit and my answer is a little nuanced ... once you have a cable that is: 1. Well constructed 2. Well shielded and 3. Well terminated, you will get little to no improvement in sound quality by "upgrading" ...

That's not "nuanced" at all. That's dogmatic.

@ghdprentice

I support you in using cables and interconnects made by Transparent. I also use their power cords in order.

Cables tend to color the sound for better or worse. This is a factual comment. There is considerable creativity in making cables.

Transparent’s cables and the accompanying network box that’s attached to the cable which tends to adjust for impact on the sonic integrity along the harmonic range as impacted by cables. I like that.

I also believe the more money you spend makes you feel better and clearly you can spend a ton of money on cables and interconnect. Its absurd how much you can spend in this area

I also like the power isolator made by transparent. This is a company located in Maine and they seem to be nice people up there, very helpful and speaking to me about technical aspects of whatever it is they do.

Unless there is a problem with your current cables. "upgrading" cables is more of a tweak to get the sound you are looking for. For me it has been mostly subtle changes. At times I can't even tell a difference. Most of my cables are not real high end. Only have a couple "expensive" cables. 

Well, when I changed power cords on my HT subwoofers, that made a big impact. Weirdly both subs were now pulling more power at idle over the OEM cords. Not sure they really sounded "better" but they had a bit more punch.

Calvinj , I think Nordost does do cable demo on the show from low price to their expensive cables.

ok.. so, I've been down this road a bit and my answer is a little nuanced:

1. There are technical considerations involved in cables that will absolutely make a difference in sound. For example, I got a new phonostage and ordered a new RCA cable for it. The phonostage arrived about 2 weeks before the cable, so I used a spare 10ft RCA I had lying around to test out my new piece of gear. I instantly noticed a thick veil over the sound like a wool blanket was draped over the speakers. Of course, I thought the problem was the new phonostage (this is after I broke it in for the recommended 30 hours). I was going back and forth with the manufacturer and looking at spending $$$ on NOS tubes to fix the sound when someone here on Agon suggested that it seemed like an impedance problem and that I should check the signal chain to make sure impedances were matched across the cart, phonostage and pre-amp. I ran this by the manufacturer and they said, "the impedance pairing across your gear is fine, but what cable are you using?" When I told them, they instantly said, "Oh! That's your problem right there!" Sure enough, once I swapped that super long cable out for the new one I ordered, the problem disappeared!! So, in conclusion: did swapping the cable out make a "dramatic" difference? Yes! Was it because of all of the nonsense claims by cable manufacturers about the special materials and proprietary shielding they use? Absolutely not. The improvement that @rennieboy mentioned with his Vandersteens is likely due to better impedance matching and not the "higher quality" of super expensive cables. 

2. Cheap cables can cause issues like RF interference and bad connections. So swapping them out will make a dramatic difference. However, once you have a cable that is: 1. Well constructed 2. Well shielded and 3. Well terminated, you will get little to no improvement in sound quality by "upgrading" to super expensive cables. This experiment has been tried time and time again. There have been multiple blind listening tests. Electrical engineer audiophiles have analyzed this to death with frequency response measurements. And on and on and on. The difference between a cheap $5 RCA and a ~$100 RCA can be moderate to substantial. The difference between a ~$100 RCA and a $10,000 RCA is little to none at all (most of the improvement will be WELL below the audible range of humans). 

Just my 2 cents... good luck!