Klipsch Cornwall IV

Riaa have you compared the Cornwall to the Razz’z?

Nope...both still in their boxes collecting dust. Something to look forward to one day.

Yep that's a comparison I'm interested in because I know Greg does excellent work.

Oz

riaa,
Just curious...Why would you buy a pair of speakers and not use them?

Ive got around 15 pairs....4 more incoming shortly (Cube Audio Nenuphar's/Spendor Classic 100/Fleetwood Deville/Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo 2).  I'll get around to all of em eventually....if I live long enough. I like collecting depreciating assets that consume all of my free floor space :)

I looked at Volti speakers prior to purchasing the CW IV. Greg said he considered the Rival to be more comparable to the CW IV than the Razz. 

Also, I got an email from Upscale stating that Klipsch will be implementing a 10% price increase to their speakers on June 17.

@donsachs ,  Very good to see you here Don!  

Do you think you will go through with the crossover mod (VCaps)?  

I’ve owned these speakers since December 2020--Ozzy really motivated me because I respect his opinions and measured views. I was coming from Forte IIIs. Here’s what I’ve experienced:

• Break-in . It was real, but at about 75-100 hours everything settled in nicely.
• Positioning. They are NOT fussy about distance to the front wall. They are, for me, fussy about toe in and width between them. Also, it’s the first speaker that I’ve owned that can be listened to in a closer sitting and farther away. I can’t say which is best--both are good and different.
• Dynamics. Amazing
• Imaging. Decent--say B+
• Soundstage. Unreal for me. They sound like live music.
• Treble. Crisp, clean and never fatiguing with the right gear. Be careful. They pass signal like no other so everything matters.
• Midrange. Seductive with the right setup.
• Bass. Honestly I expected more, but they are tuneful and taught to about 38 hz. I augment with 2 REL subs--not for boom, just to get the feeling of space, dimension and to fill out that lower octave.

This speaker is so darn sensitive to gear swapping. It’s fun and addictive. You just cannot feed them junk.

They sound effortless. Here I am in my late 40s owning Klipsch speakers running tubes throughout my entire system. I’m that guy now and happier than ever. I don’t think I can go back to different, modern designs.

Finally, I did damp my Forte IIIs midrange drivers. I’m wondering if I should do that here to. I would think Delgado did a great job, but....I’m curious!

This speaker big like my biceps. I going try it in my den where there is man space. I have Maggie in the gym and wife friend jump through other speaker taking the acid. I get these Cornwall and rock and charm the lady to.

I did indeed swap out the caps except the big 60 uF one between woofer + and ground. VCap ODAM. It is not a trivial job as the VCaps are larger physically, but with a little planning it can be done. I managed to glue cable tie bases to the board and mount caps. You have to insulate leads because cap body is conductive. Also put some double stick tape between cap body and inductor to make sure there is no contact. I didn’ t like caps so close to inductors and was worried it might sound worse. No. The difference is not subtle. The speaker goes up to the next level after about an hour. For the first 15 minutes you think you have destroyed them, but I know those caps and how good they are and that they need to run in. I use them in all my amp, preamp, and phono builds because they are just amazing caps. After 15-20 minutes you can hear the difference.  After the 50+ hours I have on them now, wow.  Slightly more 3D, but it is the tone and timbre of things that changes strikingly. That little hint of brightness in the speaker is gone and the vocals and instruments sound much more realistic. Yes, it is a very good speaker stock, but it improves considerably with the ODAM caps to my ear.

Again, I am not telling anyone to do this. It will undoubtedly void your warranty! I am also about to swap in pathaudio resistors. There is a 30 ohm and 8 ohm basic sand resistor. The 30 ohm is directly in series with the midrange driver so it will matter. The 8 probably not as much, but I will do it anyway. I will probably swap them next week. As I said, the speaker is now much better at all the hifi stuff, but it still has the same punch and drive and all the horn things going on. It just images a bit better and the portrayal of everything is better. Sound stage is massive, but it was pretty good before. The little hint of brightness is now gone and only detail remains. A trumpet sounds more like a trumpet. A piano more convincing. Vocals to die for. I know those of you who love the stock version will think I am nuts, but if I could flip a switch on your speaker so you could hear the ODAM caps I bet you would notice right away. To my ear you don’t lose any of the thing things you love about the Cornwall IV, it just gets better. But that is MY ear and again, I am not telling you to do this. It isn’t that hard, but I have built 1000 pieces of tube gear and modded many a crossover, so my concept of not that hard is different than that of a novice.

My significant other came into the house about an hour after the cap swap and she immediately noticed things sounded better. God bless that woman:)

Amazing how many posts on the Cornwall IV....  anyone who has heard the III or IV properly set up has to admit they sound great even if they are Klipsch haters.   I bought my Forte IV based on the sound of the Heresy IV and Cornwall IV.   I could not hear the IV in person but bought them sight unseen after hearing the were voiced like the Cornwall.   I could have easily justified the Cornwall if I had the room , maybe some day.

I haven’t heard the CW4 and wish I had before getting the Volti Razz which is of similar midrange horn design. CW4s were only 1k more but there’s no place near me to have a listen. However, I did the Greg Roberts show and tell and fell in love with the Razz. Build quality is superb and they sound awesome driven by my Pass Int 60 SS amp. Choice of DACs though makes huge differences in musicality. No turntable yet, only streaming and cds ripped by Innous. 

Cap changes are frustrating because it should not need done. I swear every speaker at even crazy prices come with crap internals.

Cornwalls were MUCH cheaper than the Volti Razz (I have both). Not so much now with the price increase at Klipsch starting this week.  Think my IV's cost a little over 4K (Picked up in person) and the Volti's were more 5-6K with shipping.  If your happy with the Razz (Which has superior quality parts) why would you regret purchasing them vs something you havent heard??

Well, I wouldn't say they were crap caps, just run of the mill MKP.  I put the best caps I have ever heard in.  That said, caps, like speakers, are a personal choice and others may prefer a different cap over the ODAM.  They are a great speaker with the stock caps, but there are many better caps in the world than what is in there, and there one sand resistor is in a key spot and I am sure even a change to something like a Mills would be audible.  I have not heard the pathaudio ones, but many love them so I will use them.

No regret on the Volti, just would like to have heard CW 4 due to some good reviews. I’m happy! The pricing I’m seeing for new CW 4 is 6k. The Razz with prem finish (Lightning) were 6k as well.

Difference is you cant get a discount (Most likely) on the RAZZ.  You should be able to get at least 20% off any Klipsch speaker from your dealer...if not shop elsewhere.

I would love the hear the Volti Rival....  I bet it is really good.  Plus, swapping the resistors or the one exposed coupling cap is trivial.  The Cornwall IV, when fully tweaked is pretty good though:) 

Don’t know where you are but, to hear Voltis you have to go to 1 hour east of Nashville. That’s where they are and there are no dealers. He calls his business a speaker boutique and builds every one by hand using 1” solid maple including the bracing. I was impressed with the quality. 

oh I will most likely never hear one unless I buy a pair.....  I am in SE British Columbia a LONG way from Nashville:)

Donsachs.....
Do you mind disclosing the cap values that you substituted, as well as the 30 ohm sand cast resistor ( 30 ohms, but what “watt value”) that you haven’t yet replaced . I want to order them for a friend who has the necessary skills to do the swap out.
Much Thanks....

The crossover had an earlier iteration, but mine is the later one. A fellow posted the schematic on a klipsch forum, so if yours were made in the past year or so they probably have that schematic, but perhaps you should pull a woofer and check. If fairly recent, then you need a 2.75 uF and a 2.25 uF as these are directly in series with the tweeter. ODAM caps come in a 2.2 and a 2.7 which is well within the 5% spec on the original Klipsch cap. If you ask Chris when you order he will find you high measuring caps to get you closer to 2.25 and 2.75. The other key one is 7 uF which is directly in series with the midrange driver. I got a high measuring 6.8 for each channel, both are over 6.9 and again, that is well within the 5% spec. There is a 60 uF across the woofer that I didn’t change as it is already a poly cap and the VCap ODAM pair to replicate it would be expensive and large, and it is not in series with the woofer so probably not much effect. Lastly there is a 1.5 uF across the midrange. Probably not a huge effect, but I changed it because I use a lot of 1.5 uF caps and had them in stock. Also a 4 uF across the midrange. I also changed that one, but not as key. The key caps are the 7 uF, and the 2.25 and 2.75. The two resistors are 30 ohm in series with the midrange and 8 ohm across the midrange. It is 25 watt rated. The pathaudio resistors are 10 watt rated, and supposedly are very conservatively rated. If you do the math, a 10 watt resistor is probably adequate. Unless you are running the speaker at clipping constantly. The horns are so efficient I seriously doubt that resistor sees anywhere near 10 watts.. Remember that ODAM caps have conductive bodies so be careful in mounting.

Why come these lefty at audiophile no review the Cornwall? What gives these reviewer that can’t see shoes after sitting around all day. Review the speaker and do job. Stop eating donut like robocop and work on getting Cornwall go to gym for year first or you hurt back need real man to do everything what this come to?

tubebuffer,
What's the deal with the weird way that you write? Seriously, is that the way you write English, or do you think that you're being amusing?
Your last post makes zero sense.

Roxy he is the Borat of Agon. Somebody should send him a Year of The Kat hot stamper….

@Donsachs... Don I have used your line-pre for over a year now and absolutely love it!  Seems like you really liked some caps out of eastern EU and used them on my pre.  Should I consider the ODAMs an upgrade opportunity?

@roxy54 

remember, we are all best off if we don't feed the trolls

cheers

Thank you Don!  I'm very tempted to make that swap.  Maybe I'll damp the midrange and take a look around.  I may wait til the fall and the cold air hits Chicago, as summer is too short up here. I'm very, very tempted.  

Donsachs.....
Are the inductors air core or iron core.? If iron, shouldn’t they also be changed.....?

I had a demo recently and liked them well enough but in my room, my RP-6000's have a much stronger center image. They did sound great on well recorded live tracks, but didn't hit me in the chest like my dual HSU subs do. 

That's why you would run the Cornwalls with your dual HSU subs. That's what I do.

Oz

riaa, are you saying you paid $4k?  You said you “think” you paid that.  That would be a 33% discount...  pretty hard to find that!

The only klipsch speakers that can give Cornwall IV run is KLIPSCH EPIC CF4 but it was made through 1994-1996

check it out 

https://youtu.be/alhjT1L1Nts

I didnt get 33 off.  Got 25 locally last year sometime with Free Delivery.  I never buy anything anymore without at least 20% off and I havent failed to do so.

Yes to mods!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Other things besides changing caps and resistors that can be done that will transform the speaker:

1. Change all coils in the mids and highs to large gauge air core coils......foil sounds best. Go into the inside of the coil and out the outside for best sound. Klipsch uses all iron core coils.....not good.

2. Get rid of all connections. Hardwire the wires from the xover to the tabs on the mid and high drivers and hardwire directly to the voice coil wire on the woof. Do my binding post bypass system on the input of the speaker...see http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/EVS_1200_amplifier.html for large pic. Do not use the stock speaker terminal jumpers.....bi wire for best sound or use cryoed OFC wire for jumper. You always want your speaker wire to go directly to the mid high terminal for most transparent sound.

3. Damp the midrange and tweeter horns. There is a video online of someone doing this and the sonic benefits.

For those wild types.....how about time aligning.....Remove the mid and tweeter horn from the speaker.....turn the speaker upside down so the woofer is on the top and stack the mid and tweeter horns on top of the box and line up the voice coils of all three drivers.....use felt to keep the tweeter output from bouncing off the mids. The crossover was designed for non time aligning so it may have to be tweaked......this would be a big boy mod. Many of the big horn speakers time align their drivers.

Of course, there are speaker box beefing mods, adding Ground Enhancers directly to the speaker ground terminals....etc. etc. to infinity.

Don Sachs,
How does the modded Cornwall now compare to the Miflex capped Spatial X5 you have?   Wait till you do more!!!!!

lrdrootman said:
"The only klipsch speakers that can give Cornwall IV run is KLIPSCH EPIC CF4 but it was made through 1994-1996"

I don't know that to be a fact, because I have never heard the Cornwall IV, but they are the best speakers that I have ever owned, and easily showed the door to a pair of JBL Array 1400's that I bought when they came out. I plan on having the crossovers redone later this year. 

OK, I installed the 30 ohm and 8 ohm pathaudio resistors.  I am done and never opening that speaker again!

First off, I understand the concepts of confirmation bias and controlled experiments.  I have a PhD and have analyzed tons of data.   I have also built at least a thousand pieces of tube equipment.  I have my ways of evaluating changes with the same 30-40 test tracks.  I listen for very specific things in all of them.   Yes, the proper experiment would be to have two pairs of Cornwall IV speakers, one modded, one stock. Both connected at the same time and toggle between them.  Better yet, have a blindfold on and have someone else toggle for you.  Or a mono signal and one speaker modded and one stock or something along those lines.  Yeah sure.  Who among us can afford two pairs of the same speaker for such an experiment?  Who has the room for that sort of experiment in their living room?   

The pathaudio resistors are not quite as big a change as going to the VCap ODAM caps, but the change is quite audible and almost as large.   Same things, a little more 3D imaging, but the slightly bright character of the original sand resistor is apparent upon removing it!   The pathaudio resistors sound more natural, no brightness, just music. Definitely more clarity and again, no brightness to achieve that clarity.  So like the cap change, the speaker is more natural sounding, images slightly better, and there is not a hint of brightness.  Just insane levels of detail and punch.  You would not really think the stock speaker is bright until you change the caps and resistors in the crossover.  I could never go back.  I am not changing inductors.  First I don't know the values, second the speaker is voiced with that sort of inductor and they all sound different.  Honestly, the speaker is amazingly good right now and I have no desire to fool with it again.   If you really want to go for it, change the speaker terminals and improve the contact between the wiring and the terminals.  You could play with inductors if you were inclined, but I am not.   This speaker is a FAR better speaker than the stock one to my ear.  Not even close.  It retains all of the things you like about the stock one, but it sounds so much more like music.  

The Spatial Audio X5 speakers I have also have a VCap ODAM that replaced the Miflex.   They are wonderful.   I will eventually put them back in the system and evaluate the difference again, but the Cornwalls need another 100 hours or more to be certain the woofers are completely run in and the ODAM caps take 100-200 hours to really run in as well. Again see my comments earlier in the thread.  Different speakers for people seeking different things.  This last mod with the pathaudio resistors just pushed the Cornwall IV way in how realistic the presentation of instruments and voices are.  That is the strength of the X5, so the comparison will be interesting.

Again, I am NOT telling you to modify your crossovers.  You will certainly void your warranty.  I cannot possibly go back to stock though....  Let's just say if the people who have published reviews of the Cornwall IV had modded the crossovers their jaws would have dropped.....  The guys on the Klipsh forum who attacked me for even wanting the schematic and considering messing with their "perfect speakers"... well they can listen to theirs and I can listen to mine.   If you could flip a switch on theirs and turn the into these I seriously doubt any of them would go back.....unless they are deaf

I have to respectfully disagree about the CF4 being close to the Cornwall...  I owned a pair of CF 4, they were a fun speaker but the CW IV is better in every parameter.   In fact I am going to be so bold to say that my Forte IV sound so much better than the CF 4 that its not even a contest.    

Again, I can't argue with that, because I haven't heard either of those speakers. It's been a long time since the Epics were designed, and I don't doubt that the Cornwall IV's are superior. I wish that I could afford to find out.
Having said that, I'm still surprised to think of how many good speakers I have had that didn't sound as coherent as the Epics. I really think it has something to do with all of the treble and midrange coming out of one horn; and as far as the bass goes, it just breathes better than most other speakers I've owned with the possible exception of the Spendor SP100,
which had a good, but different sort of bass. The Nestorovic 5As also had good bass.

Move back to the East Coast Roxy and you can break mine in for as long as you like...and the RAZZ too!  :)

After trying a pair of Heresy IVs for a month or so I decided to keep my Heresy IIIs as they're more to my liking, so now I have the dreaded "fear of polyimide" syndrome. The mid drivers in the IIIs are titanium with a far more complex horn throat than the IVs, and I fear the new Cornballs, uh Cornwalls, would lead right into my fears (same with the Forte IV)...although I now have a much larger room to park my gear heap...the Heresy IIIs are doing fine but I had thought about Cornballs...damn...CORNWALLS to make larger sounds...now I think I'll just stay with Heresy IIIs until I get the itch for mo something...

💡Sonetime people here make zero cents.I decide not to buy Cornwall by buddy open them and says there no more than $300 part inside. Other guy rebuild whole speaker who just make good speaker with good part? Maggie make good speaker but thinking of slam to make my wife sister dance like maniac when come over.

riaa,
Thanks, but be careful, I would be tempted to take you up on that offer!

Donsachs 
Thanks for your feedback. The Corn IV are amazing speakers, stock, once you get at least 50 hours on them, and they really start to open up at around 150 hours. I will eventually change out the caps and resistors, (and dampen the mid and tweeter horns with Dynamat), however I am first going to add in a second pair of Cornwall IV’s and stack them......yes I know, sounds crazy and major league over kill, however one doesn’t know till one tries.....I realize there will be some “Comb Filtering effects”, and imaging may suffer, etc. Should be interesting at the very least .....Anyway again thanks for your work and feedback.
CHEERS.......

If you stack them so the top speaker is upside down then the tweeters will be close to each other and less comb effects.....a D’appolito, if you will.  You could put some thick felt between the tweeters and that will eliminate some of the interaction between the two.

The most simple mod is to make sure you connect your speaker wire to the mid high terminal and make or get a serious jumper to go to the woofer terminal. The stock jumpers are crap.  Bi-wiring would be even better.  Just use some cheaper thick wire for the bass as a starter....will blow your mind.

@donsachs , Fascinating report on your crossover upgrades, Don. I’m tempted but don’t really have the skills. You should offer a drop in replacement crossover board! I’d certainly buy it, and I’m sure many others would, too. Just a thought. Well, more of a wish!

If you have Spatial audio ,the natural evolution is the x3,x5/
they have a horn like wave guide to what many consider 
the best AMT driver out there this modified Beyma  driver has a 7 inch wave guide and does the critical midrange and tweeter 
with -0  crossover in the signal path ,great 12 inch midBass 
and powered low Bass from 90 Hz down . Buy the upgraded 
Xover withThe VH audio  Odam capacitors. Great speakers 
they are on my to do list next year.