@invalid ”we shouldn’t even be listening to stereo equipment, it’s not a necessity”
invalid logic, l love it. Let’s not do anything ever again and go back to living in a cave. All sorted
@gano invalid has got something there….. Wait a minute, l take it back. He said “if global warming was so dire” ??
It is dire.
l am still optimistic (just) in believing that this often quoted solution is still viable….. “Necessity is the mother of invention”
@hilde45 “It works in many places not stuck in binary ruts” l agree with your last post as it applies so well with the quote above.
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@invalid I have no idea what that means.
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@gano if global warming was so dire, then we shouldn't even be listening to stereo equipment, it's not a necessity.
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@mulveling Yeah I tend to agree. My preamp is from Linear Tube Audio and it’s hard to think they’d engineer something that’s capable of blowing my speakers no matter how it’s used, but still I’m gonna check just to make sure. Peace of mind, better safe than sorry, etc.
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@soix
Yes, definitely ask the manufacturer on that. The more sophisticated (expensive) balanced tube preamps I’ve owned (ARC Ref 6, Rogue Hera, VAC Master) have relay-timed outputs: the outputs are not "live" during a warm-up period, and are first disengaged on shut-down. These have been OK when I’ve inadvertently violated the usual start up / shut-down order - no thumps. BUT I think for general "gear hygeine" it’s still smart to stick to the usual order, as much as possible. But also, these days, with all the protection options available, I think it’s very hard to justify manufacturing any preamp that could cause an awful THUMP in speakers!
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@larryi Thanks! Very helpful and just the info I was looking for. I’ll contact my preamp manufacturer and ask them.
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There would be a problem if the preamp/linestage emits a thump when it is turned on or off and your amplifier is on and sends that thump to your speaker. If it is loud enough, it may be annoying, or even worse, damaging.
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Here’s a question — I relatively recently required a tube preamp. I like to keep my amp and all components on and could leave the rube pre on too because the tubes last a long time and are cheap. The question is if I leave my amp and source components on and turn the preamp off is that a potential issue? I know you’re always supposed to turn the pre on before the amp, but that’s when starting with everything off. I’m thinking it should be fine since the amp is already on but just wanted thoughts if any potential problems doing this.
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Remember that suggesting a nuclear solution is not denying climate change.
I have nothing against SAFE nuclear. Whatever gets us out of this mess that doesn't kill anyone is fine.
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I have done plenty of research on the subject. Fact is renewables are in place despite the fact that the best solution has been available throughout this whole mess. Check out all the important facts about efficiency and cleanliness and get back to me. So yes both at the same time, until it is time to change entirely to a modern nuclear grid. I think the correct solution is very obvious.
Remember that suggesting a nuclear solution is not denying climate change.
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I would go by whatever the manufacturer recommends. Generally, I leave most of my gear "on" or in "standby". If I owned a Class A solid state or tube amp, I'd likely turn it off in the summer to keep from heating up the room too much but might leave them on in the winter. As noted, thermal cycling is what kills electronics or them getting too hot from the buildup of dust - so every once in a blue moon, clean your gear out carefully - or cover up the ventilation holes and slots when not in use if they are turned off. Streamers, your Wi-Fi router, and modem need to be rebooted every once in a while, to maintain a good connection and clear out any "cobwebs". I do mine about once a month.
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I turn my gear off when not in use, and I have never had a tube go bad even after 15 years of regular use. Of course, I cannot say that I would have had a shorter life for my tubes if I left them on all of the time; I have no comparative data. There are many ways for a tube to fail, but eventually all tubes will exhibit lower emission of electrons from the cathode due to aging; turning off gear when not in use reduces this kind of tube degradation. If an amp is designed correctly, the early failure from the effects of being turned off and on (e.g., thermal shock) should be reduced enough that it makes more sense to turn off the amp when not in use. As for other components, heat can degrade some components and this will favor turning equipment off to reduce exposure to heat, but, some capacitors might fair better without being turned off if they are susceptible to damage from high inrush current.
The vast majority of tube gear manufacturers will recommend turning off gear when not in use. The downside mentioned by those who don't recommend turning off their gear is usually not so much shortening tube life as it is performance is affected until the gear warms up. The gear I am familiar with usually sounds decent after five minutes or so of use, but, I am aware of some gear that takes much longer than that to warm up (supposedly an issue with the capacitors taking some time to fully reform and stabilize).
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but no "lecture."
yes exactly. There is a history of how the deniers refused to be lectured. And perhaps the believers sometimes talked down to them and triggered the refusal to be lectured.
We are in the same boat. Facts are not up for discussion, we are all subject to gravity and boiling in extreme heat.
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Keep my solid state equipment on 24/7.
Audia Flight phono, SMc Audio, Merrill Audio, Martin Logan subs
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And thanks guys for using this an opportunity to lecture us on climate change. Again lets talk about nuclear and not the other other underperforming solutions.
You're so very welcome. And you sound a bit touchy about the topic. I heard a couple mentions but no "lecture." Why not nuclear AND renewables? It works in many places not stuck in binary ruts. Read up and try to think a little bit.
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@larryi all my tube equipment have tube rectification, it's usually harder on the filament during turn on, even if tube rectification is used.
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Interesting, inrush current having an affect on cap life. That is also not any kind of spec on caps. What is a spec is time, temp and voltage.
On tubes, they also do not like heat, or voltage spike/changes. There are devices that stop inrush current on tubes, power them up slowly.
On switches a lot of new stuff doesn't have one. If it does have a power switch, it's not really a power switch, but a button that puts the unit in stand-by.
My system is all plugged into a Furman, I just flick the mag breaker off when not in use. Don't use any of the switches on my gear. However, my HT system has power all the time.
Sound wise, yes, leaving it on is best. Not sure it's best for longevity. Also think what Paul is saying when using perfect power with a regen unit, there may be less of a need to power down.
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I turn everything off the second I stop listening. And thanks guys for using this an opportunity to lecture us on climate change.
Again lets talk about nuclear and not the other other underperforming solutions.
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2 additional points;
1-in Roon as far as clearing the 'image cache' once you hit that button you do need to wait for at least 10 seconds before you restart Roon for the action to complete.
2-i use an Equi=tech 10WQ 10kva Isolation Transformer for my whole system. in the Pacific Northwest where i live we very rarely get electric storms, maybe once every 3-4 years. nothing like the mid west or southeast. but when we do i just throw the main breaker for my whole system and it's is isolated from the grid and protected. even when connected that transformer protects the system from spikes.
https://equitech.com/products/wall-mount/10wq/
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What if your amps don’t even have an on/off switch, just an IEC?! I just leave them powered up all the time. SMc Audio now uses thermal-magnetic switches (think Swiss Digital Fuse Box) that serves the purposes of both equipment protection (i.e., fuse) and on/off switch. After sourcing two of them from SMc, I mounted them in-line, in the wall, one for each amp and replaced the line fuses in both amps with copper rod. At least I can now turn the amps on/off without unplugging them.
@mitch2 Nice. I’m jealous of your magnetic switches. My upgraded DNA 0.5 has the power switch disconnected so I’ve gotta unplug my amp to turn it off. But I leave it on all the time anyway, unless I’m going away for at least a few days, so it’s no biggie but still it’d be nice to have the power switch working. BTW, Patrick at SMcAudio said I probably prolonged the life of my amp by years by leaving it on. All I know is the thing lasted 30 years with me leaving it on.
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Everything but the amplifier stays in 24/7, the amp usually gets turned off before I go to bed. Everything gets unplugged when bad weather is approaching. All of my equipment is solid state.
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No on and off switch anywhere, the designer obviously meant for the unit to be powered on 24/7.
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@baylinor
Turning off every piece of equipment that has an on and off feature in front of the unit and always leaving on the ones that only have a on and off function on the back of the unit.
What if your amps don’t even have an on/off switch, just an IEC?! I just leave them powered up all the time. SMc Audio now uses thermal-magnetic switches (think Swiss Digital Fuse Box) that serves the purposes of both equipment protection (i.e., fuse) and on/off switch. After sourcing two of them from SMc, I mounted them in-line, in the wall, one for each amp and replaced the line fuses in both amps with copper rod. At least I can now turn the amps on/off without unplugging them.
For the past 10 years or so, I have been content to have all solid state equipment that I can leave powered up all the time. It has been a change for me to now have a DAC with tubes that I need to remember to power down. Even though it seems to take less than an hour to sound its best, my sporadic listening schedule (I often don’t know when or if I will have time to listen each day) makes it more difficult to have equipment that requires some forethought and warm up.
I do unplug everything when thunderstorms are eminent (seems too often lately) and when I am going to be away from home more than a day or two. I also occasionally power down my digital chain (server/streamer/DAC) as suggested by @grannyring and seconded by @mikelavigne but I was previously unaware of the Roon clear cache button, so I will also try that.
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We use a Yamaha receiver for our TV sound and just leave it on all the time. It has been on for several years now with no issues. FWIW.
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Invalid,
Your personal experience represents a small sample size. Also, it sounds like you experience a lot of tube death in order to detect a pattern. Is it possible that your gear is hard on tubes, particularly at turn on? If your gear has tube rectification, turn on of the rest of your tubes will be inherently gentle. Some tube gear have “soft start” circuits that slowly ramp up the juice.
Almost all of my gear uses tube rectification. I’ve been running the same amp and linestage and phonostage for 15 years and I have not replaced any tubes. I cannot draw any conclusions from personal experience with that kind of data.
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@mylogic Thanks for bringing up the environmental point. One things folks might do if they want to deal with energy costs to the planet is consider voluntary renewable choice programs, such as the ones offered by companies like Xcel Energy. Consumers can support renewable energy generation, thereby reducing their individual carbon footprint associated with electricity consumption without necessarily putting in solar panels, etc.
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I have a Pass Labs integrated, class AB, and they recommend leaving it on. There's a mute button but it doesn't appear to be a standby. It still stays warm.
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@larryi my tubes always seem to last longer when I leave the equipment on 24/7, tube filaments always seem to burn out quicker when I power them on and off daily.
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My main system is linked and the components all go to standby mode if not used for about 15 minutes. If I go away for a week or more I turn them off. The 2 old AVRs in my other 2 systems I turn off when not in use since there’s no standby and they heat up and waste much more electricity.
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@spenav
Have you not heard of the butterfly effect? If not look it up, research it a little. Lots of little things all mount up.
Refrigerators are required to be left on, a fact of life.
The car example was an ironic comparison to make people think. I see it worked on you. It was not like your car engine “doing serious work” It was not meant to be taken seriously.
Manufacturers want you to buy more of the same, it’s called sales marketing and supply and demand. Some manufacturers intentionally build in operational redundancy (like mobile phones), but that’s another subject.
l will ask my stepson about equipment related fires in the UK. He is a chief fire officer Commander for the new Hinckley Point 2 Nuclear Power Station under construction, and the Trident submarines laid up in Plymouth over here in the UK. Will that do?
It should not be considered a swear word to use stupid, ignorant or the like and l do not address these to any individuals. I’m sorry if you may possibly find my “handle” mylogic in anyway confrontational, but if you do l suggest you are maybe the child here.
My opinions are mine alone and in my opinion only based only on what l believe.
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@mylogic
Your logic is flawed at best.
“How confident are you leaving other appliances on all day and night?”.
Do you turn your fridge off at night? Leaving a DAC on with the display off won’t affect global warming in a million years. There is no work done and the energy consumption is negligible. Comparing this to a car engine in idle state is ridiculous. The engine is doing serious work so much so that the fan will come on after a certain time to cool it off. The engine is still running even at idle.
You are fast to call people ignorant and unconcerned about the environment but your logic doesn’t make sense. Why would a manufacturer give you advice that will be detrimental to the longevity of your equipment and expect that you will buy another one from him after the first one fails? Do you have the stats on the number of fires started by hi-fi equipment left on continually?
you should try to express your opinion without throwing insults around like you are a nine year old.
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@jomace
Why not (as it’s on) ask the computer what it thinks is best practice?
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I even leave the computer on.
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I feel it is up to each individual to decide what they feel comfortable with. I have a streamer which stays on all the time (I restart it periodically as it is a computer after all). My Transport stays on all the time... My DAC stays on all the time and is periodically restarted. I have a tube preamp that is only powered up when used and a pair of Pass labs amps that go into standby when not being used. I do substitute in a pair of Quicksilver tube monoblocks that are only powered up when playing music. I try to use common sense in what I leave on 24/7. I do not mind a short warm up period.....
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I used to leave my Innuos ZENith Mk3 on all the time. Since I have been turning it off each time I'm done listening, I no longer have any kind of hiccups at all. I only had issues once in a great while, but it is better without any. Soundwise seems unchanged however.
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@gano
This site is so educational.
Dresses allow for more air around your instruments of your own intimate personal system. During hot weather dresses are a considerable asset to the “nether regions”
Think of it as a part of a room treatment dressing solution.
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like a old lady's dress
I had no idea that I need to be educated for this
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it wasn't opinions or conclusions, it was numbers = facts. Stuff outside of how we like it, how we feel about it. 
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I run pretty much all tubes so shut everything down when done listening. I do typically leave my streamer on 24/7 but interesting posts from @grannyring and @mikelavigne I will try turning the streamer off every few weeks and see if that improves SQ.
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@aewarren “Treat your SS equipment like an old lady’s dress. Once it’s on, leave it on”
The comment above, are you trying to drop us a gentle hint about your life style choice?
To run/burn us in gently?
No judgments from me, it’s a free World 🤐
What do you think @grannyring ?
@vair68robert l think you could be called an energy champion. $155 is quite a hit for an 85 watt amplifier being left on for a year and just for one piece of gear.
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p.s. I turn my system off but I do turn everything on at least 1/2 hour before I sit down an listen .
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using the national average of 19 cents per kwh the cost to leave an amp that uses 85 watts just being on would cost $166.45 in electricity a year . So look at what your amp uses when not being played but left on 24/7/365 and decide if it's worth especially if your electricity cost more than national average .
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Treat your SS equipment like a old lady's dress. Once it's on, leave it on.
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After trying the always on or turned off ways multiple times, I have adopted the following method:
Turning off every piece of equipment that has an on and off feature in front of the unit and always leaving on the ones that only have a on and off function on the back of the unit. I am not gonna try to outsmart the designers any longer. It's common sense to me.
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Very true. Amplifiers also benefit sonically in my experience.
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For those of you that leave your gear on like dacs, streamers and SS amps I have a tip to try. Every couple of weeks or so shut them down for 5-10 minutes and then restart. While I don’t understand why, I can say it did something positive to sound quality. A couple of designers I respect told me about this.
music management software, servers, dacs, and network switches need to be re-booted often to clear stored data cashes that will build up and cause issues. all the meta data gums things up. Roon has a ’clear cashe’ button that helps under ’setup’.
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I have a field coil power supply for my speakers. I do keep it turned off.
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leave on---Wadax dac, server, power supply, two Ethernet switches, class d bass amps, Herzan TS active isolation, Esoteric clock.
if gone for over a week these are turned all the way off.
standby--darTZeel amps, battery powered preamp
off; tape decks, tape tubed preamps, phono tubed pre, turntables, power supply for field coil cartridge and field coil arm.
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Ok @gano I leave you with your opinions and conclusions. Enjoy your music!
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For those of you that leave your gear on like dacs, streamers and SS amps I have a tip to try. Every couple of weeks or so shut them down for 5-10 minutes and then restart. While I don’t understand why, I can say it did something positive to sound quality. A couple of designers I respect told me about this.
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