Looking for Advice on Focal Speakers

One man's opinion and you can take it with a grain of salt.  If you mean you have a Halo power amp going through an AVR pre then I would look to upgrade to an integrated that does HT bypass and stick with Aria (i'm assuming some sort of budget).  If you mean you have the Halo integrated then I'd say you are good.  Interesting that you say Paradigm is bright considering that's what many say about Focal (not me, I love them).  I thought Aria was great value, didn't fall for Kanta nearly as much and Sopra made my heart skip a beat.  

OP, you need to address the open floor plan as well as addressing your speakers. Have you taken measurements of your in room frequency response yet? Can you post your system, pics, and your measurements in your virtual system in your profile (see mine for an example). I would not spend a nickel on speakers until you get the frequency response of your current setup as flat as possible.

I also use a Marantz processor and the new paid upgrade of Audyssey is a huge improvement over the one that comes with the unit. Don’t buy new speakers until you get the upgrade (and a calibrated mic) with your current system:

I found the 936's Be tweeter too bright. I love my Ascend Acoustics towers because the RAAL tweeter is (a) not at the top of the speaker and this helps with first reflections from my ceiling and (b) the dispersion is kinder and gentler. I think the Ascends are a great value -- engineer lead, smaller US based company. FWIW. (Here's decent amateur review of these two speakers with great pictures.)

The 936 does not have a BE tweeter. 
I had the 906 for a while and thought they were really good for the price. Sounded way larger than they are. If anything I found them too smooth. Love my 836w s. Very different sound signature from the Arias. 

The biggest advice I have is don't toe them in too much.  They like minimal toe-in.

@suboost  My only advise is shop the used market.  The Focals come up often and you can expect to pay 1/2 the list price for a pair in "like new" condition that are 1 - 2 years old.  I speak from experience.  Buy at the right price and you will be able to move them along at little to no loss if you decide to make changes down the road.   

@mtbiker29 :

Not sure what you mean with the AVR pre vs integrated. Basically everything is run through the Marantz and then I have the marantz hooked to the Halo and then the speaker wires from the halo going to the towers. Sorry for my confusion on this.

@kota1 :

Here is a pic of the room if that helps. Right behind the photographer in this pic would be a large island and kitchen. The living room is 16’ Wide and we sit about 12’ from the speakers

I don’t know anything about frequency response, but I’m not sure what I can change exactly since it’s our living room. There’s no way I can put up acoustic panels or any treatment.

@bigtwin Yea I've been looking, but I was able to get the dealer down to $4500 for the pair of Aria 936. It seems like the used pricing is right about $4000 including shipping. The Kantas though definitely seem to drop more used, but still about $8000 shipped and I can get them new for about $9000. I made a few offers on some used sets for maybe another grand off, but never got any takers.

As an owner of Focal 836v speakers, I think you'll be more than satisfied with the newer Focal 936 and will find that you'll have a lot of untapped potential with the rest of your setup.  I used mine for a long time with an Integra 50.1 receiver and have since shifted to a Pathos Classic One Mkiii.  My dream would be the Pathos sound with a home theater bypass option since I still have the speakers connected to the Integra with an amplifier switch for home theater type use.

I'm sure the Katas would be amazing, but you'd really want to upgrade everything around them at a level that's well above your current setup.

If you're goal is to spend the kind of money that a speaker like the Kantas deserves and they are a good deal, then it might be the time to make the jump, but I doubt it.

OK, the pic is very helpful. The first thing is getting your listening position at the proper angle to the speakers. Dolby recommends a 22 to 30 degree angle to the front L and R speakers to the MLP. This would require you bringing the sofa toward the speakers or moving the speakers wider, or a combination. See this link:

Next you have the acoustic unfriendly windows on the left, maybe some curtains?

These rec’s are for any speakers you own. Finally I would get the audyssey upgrade through the microsoft store (read the review I posted) and the calibrated mic needed through amazon. Run the calibration after you get the speakers at the dolby recommended angles and maybe some drapes or curtains. Look at the room reponse I got in my profile, flat, using this same process/ I addressed my window problem a little differently, but curtains will at least help.

@kota1 So we have curtains up. That picture was taken with the curtains sitting in that chair on the far left, because we had just installed new window trim. So I can close them anytime I'm listening to music if it makes a difference. Thanks for all the help. I'll look into the audyssey upgrade. Does the mic that came with the marantz suffice or do I need a better one?

@mceljo Hey thanks for the feedback. So can you explain to me a bit about what I'm missing now? What makes an amp like the one you mentioned so much better than the Parasound A23 I have now? I'm just trying to understand what components I need to consider that make a significant difference.

@suboost I think what @mceljo and I are saying is you'd be better off with an upgrade of some other components with Aria vs. going Kanta and staying with what you have.  Looking at your room Kanta will be huge and stick out a bunch, definitely not WAF friendly if that's an issue.  

I think you answered my specific question but let me share where I was headed.  You have "everything into the Marantz" so I'm deducing that's an AVR and the Parasound is simply a power amp.  Ideally what @mceljo and are saying is dedicated integrated amp will have a much better preamp section (make your source material sound better).  And it's easlly assembled via the HT bypass function he referenced.  Again without knowing all other components my gut says Aria + some other tweaks are likely to yield a better overall result.  

Yes, the curtains will help. Here is the link to try out the upgrade software and infor about the calibrated mic you would need to buy separately. Buying new speakers without getting a flat frequency response first isn't a good use of funds IMO:

@mtbiker29 Ok I think I understand. I'll probably stick with the Aria in that case. So does the dedicated integrated amp replace the Marantz or Parasound or both? Thanks for all the help with this stuff.

@suboost - I think @mtbiker29 and I are thinking along similar lines.  My thought process was that if you think the Focal 936 is a significant upgrade over your current speakers and you're setup for both stereo and home theater that the Kanta's would be a mismatch with your current setup.

I've heard my 836v speakers connected to everything from an Onkyo receiver all the way up to Krell monoblocks that were intended for the Grande Utopia speakers.  I'd have no issue with upgrading my integrated amplifier knowing that my speakers still have more to give.

I do generally subscribe to the theory of buying the best speakers you can afford assuming that you love their sound.  You can then upgrade your equipment to maximize that sound.  A caveat to this theory is that it's a waste of money to have speakers that are far superior to the rest of your system unless you have a plan to align things over time.  My current system is approaching the limit for the amount of money that I'm willing to invest in this hobby and my setup limitations wouldn't allow me to truly benefit from significantly better equipment.

@mceljo So if I stick with the Arias should I still consider upgrading the amp(s)? Will I hear a difference? I mostly want to upgrade the speakers, because they sound better overall and the Klipsch speakers are very fatiguing. The Arias I auditioned were so smooth and not fatiguing at all.

@suboost - My setup uses a home theater receiver in parallel with my pathos integrated.  Both amplifiers are connected to my speakers through a custom switch to make it as convenient as possible.

A better setup would be to have an integrated amplifier with a home theater bypass feature that allowed it to act as the power amplifier for the home theater receiver while also being totally independent for stereo listening.

Before I got the Pathos, I tried to go this route with a Cambridge Audio 840A.  It didn't work will with my receiver and I didn't like it's sound.  After getting the Pathos, I tried again with a Krell S-300i, but after rolling Mullard tubes the Pathos was clearly superior to my ear so I sold the Krell.  I'm at the point where I'd have to spend more than I'm willing to spend to get a better sounding integrated amplifier with home theater bypass.  At some point I may consider getting some small front channel speakers to allow me to complete separate things, but that's a clunky solution with low WAF.

@suboost - I think you should get the Arias and try to just enjoy them with the rest of your setup.  I would expect them to benefit from better amplification, but I'm a huge fan of maximizing your enjoyment by listening to them with your current systems and only considering an upgrade if and when you feel that there's a flaw.  There's always going to be something better, so that shouldn't really be a factor.  Focus on your enjoyment.

I don't know anyone personally that has a system that I like better than mine, so as long as I don't visit the local shops I can stay content with my system.  I've already exceed where I ever expected to be with audio equipment, so just try to focus on the listening part of the hobby.

@suboost Go for the Kantas you wont regret it but you might if you go with the 936,s . I was able to listen to both and really liked the overall sound of the Kantas. People are always talking about the be tweeter being too bright or fatiguing  , I listen for probably three hours a day or better 5days a week and have never felt that way at all. It is truly a full range speaker I stopped using my sub all together it’s just not necessary for me  you can see my system on my profile its pretty similar to what you’ve got the breakfast nook/ kitchen is behind in the pic so the room depths are about the same, best !

My mistake -- thanks for the correction. The 936 is not a Be tweeter, it's a  Al/Mg TNF inverted dome tweeter. It's bright in my space, as the Be tweeters are. That's why I conflated them. Ribbon tweeters work better for me, but YMMV.

go listen to the monitor audio gold Gen 5 or the platinum Gen 2 much better than focal.

I am happy with Focal 906's. A light cotton curtain over the window right behind the listening seat was quite helpful. I bought the used 906 pair at about half price on craigslist.

My son has the Focal Aria 948 and think they sound great. Very good bass and not too bright on the highs. I ran them in my setup for a few months before my son got his place. I have Klipsch Cornwall III’ s which I have paired with subs. You can see my profile. The Focals do not need to be ran with subs in my opinion because the bass is that good. If you like the 936’s I would try to find 948’s but I’m sure the 936’s will sound great. 

I have the 948s in my living room and the Maestro Utopias in my listening room.

If I were to compare the 2, the Maestros are about 20% better. Listening to something like Tin Pan Alley sounds amaizing on the 948s but it is holographic on the Maestro towers. The strings sound like they are above your head. The 948s have great low end and clean mids and highs. Definitely not to bright and I usually prefer a silk dome tweeter.

I have never heard the 936s but I'm very pleased with the 948s. I would purchase them again. 

The maestro towers are driven by Pass Labs 250.8 mono blocks and are fed by a Dave DAC with Mscaler. The 948s are driven by a Pass Labs x150 and a Cutest Chord DAC. 

Suboost, welcome to the forum!

Are Kantas worth slightly over double the price of 936s?  Yes, probably - if you are building a system incrementally and it is within your budget.  I would say no, if you are not building incrementally.

Do you know what was driving the Focal 936s when you auditioned them?  The preamp/amp is an important part of what you will hear (as are interconnects, room treatment, etc.).  Your Parasound Halo A23 is a power amp only -  not integrated.  So there is no preamp built into it.  The only preamp component I can tell you have in your system is with the Marantz AV receiver.  That receiver is likely very good for movies/shows, etc., but not as good as an integrated amp for 2 channel music listening.

I would sell the Parasound and apply that money towards a good integrated amp with HT (Home Theater) Bypass.  That way you can use the front left/right speaker for both home theater audio through the Marantz and 2 channel listening through whatever integrated amp you buy.

The Kantas won’t come close to showing their true potential if you stick with your current components.  However, if you are building your systems incrementally, and are interested in the Kantas, I would audition them and see if you feel they are worth the higher price.  If so, buy them, but make sure you upgrade your other equipment to a level that matches the Kantas.  Hope this makes sense.

Here’s a video about setting up HT bypass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7f_w1_wy5I

@ricmech23 Yeah I was open to the 948s, but the dealer I spoke with said that for my room size and the fact that I have a sub it would be a complete waste of money. First time a dealer of any kind encouraged me to spend less money, haha.

@cd84 Thanks for all the info! Do you think that an integrated amp would sound better or offer any benefit over just buying a pre-amp? Now that I finally understand what all this stuff means, I'm just trying to figure out the best option. It would be a fairly similar price to add that vs selling mine and buying an integrated, so I'm totally open to opinions on this subject. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

@suboost, a used Parasound Halo P5 (I think it is discontinued) or a Halo P6 should work well with the A23.  There's other preamps that should work with A23 - so you are not limited to using the same manufacturer.  But you would also need interconnects.  Both of these preamps have HT bypass.  See Parasound links below:

https://www.parasound.com/p5.php
https://parasound.com/p6.php

You might let the vendor know you're interested in the Focal 936s but also let them know you are using the same space for both home theater and 2-channel listening.  What options might you have with your current equipment where you could switch between the two.  Hence the suggestion for the HT bypass option on an integrated amp OR buy a preamp with HT bypass and the interconnects.

Hope that helps.

I have the Kanta No. 2s. I listened to the 936.s before I bought the Kantas and can state they certainly are a step up from the 936s. I also agree with other posters that 1) they don’t require a lot of "toe-in" and 2) if you have patience you can pick them up for 1/2 price. I bought mine last year for $5K used, 1 year old. As far as the brightness of the Be tweeter goes I find it is more due to the recording and other gear you pair with the Kantas than the speaker itself, The last thing I will mention is, and this is likely the most important part, make sure your amp is comfortable with 2-3 ohm loads as both the 936 and the Kanta both hit less than 3 ohms in the 100Hz range and stay below 4 ohms up to around 500Hz. Mine are hooked to the 4ohm taps on a pair of Rogue M-180 monoblocks. The video below is an example of how they will sound on the lower registers. And I don’t find a lot of "brightness" in this recording. Obviously the room set up was not great when I recorded this but it has changed a lot since and sounds even better now. I would use this recording to audition any speaker when wanting to test its ability to reproduce lower frequencies. Another is Temple Caves from Micky Hart’s Planet Drum album. You should feel the floor rumble with either of these. If not then your amp is not up to the task.

Birds by Dominique Fils Aimé - YouTube

@cd84 nailed it in the first response.  @suboost you can buy just a pre but what i've seen is for basically the same money you can acquire a high quality integrated instead.  Parasound, Anthem, NAD or even Marantz the possibilities are endless.  

If you are a car guy at all you know you can't just drop a giant turbo into a car without changing the fuel system, tune, exhaust etc.  What many of us are suggesting is the Kanta by itself would be the equivalent behavior.  Good luck, it's fun and you have me rethinking doing some listening sessions at my dealers in area this fall.  

I owned the Aria 936's for about 9 months and never warned up to them. I always felt the tweeter was disconnected from the rest of the drivers and they didn't disperse evenly and together. I moved up to the Electra 1028 and absolutely loved them. I considered the Kanta but got a better deal on the Electras. I would go back to the Electras in a heartbeat much better speaker. The prices for the 936 are getting out of hand. I got a deal on the 936 brand new for under $3k just two years ago. You might find better value elsewhere. 

I bought a pair of used Aria 936’s and run them with a PrimaLuna HP integrated and am consistently thrilled with their SQ. The PL has no issue with impedance load in Ultralinear (70w) or triode (40w as I recall).

If they are within your budget I think you will be quite happy for many years as you continue to upgrade your system. Unless the additional cost of the Kantas are of no consequence, I think the Aria’s will be hard to beat. Financial strain is no fun these days. Choose wisely.

I would not buy the Kanta without listening to them first. I love my Focal 1007 Be standmount speakers, so much so that I bought them back from the friend I sold them to.  I have listened to the Kanta 2 with ARC (Audio Research) gear, and was underwhelmed. Maybe it was the ARC gear that was too solid state or cold sounding to me, but I remember wondering where the bass was at. Quite anemic in this regard. You would likely want to buy 2 subs.  Sopras are amazing, would likely be an end game speaker for me. I think used Focal 1028 Be would be a great buy, and something that would show improvement with nicer electronics down the road if you choose to upgrade. My 2 cents 

The 936 don't have beryllium tweeters.  I know because I had a pair and had to replace the tweeters.  Damage was from user stupidity, not a problem with delicate tweeters.  Anyhow, they are powerful sounding speakers that are very dynamic.  I moved on to something else, but if you like the sound I recommend them.  I've never heard the Kanta line.

It would be interesting to compare Kanta 2 with 2 REL T7x subs versus Sopra 2s — I suspect it would be pretty damn close to what you get for the 20K Sopras. 

I have the 926 powered by a Quad Artera. I demoed Sonus Faber and Quad S-5 side by side in my room and neither was able to nock the 926 from their perch. Although I really loved the imaging on the Quads.

926 sensitive to placement and mine have a sweet spot at lower volume but can sound a bit hard at higher volume but i attribute that to a few bare wall spots in my room.

Thanks for all the help from everyone! I'm going to go with the Aria 936 and I'm just looking for the best integrated amp now. Definitely intrigued by the tube amps, but I've never heard one before.

@suboost happy to help.  If you click on my virtual system you'll see my setup....I went through the same path as we are recommending and have a very satisfying best of both worlds combo using HT bypass.  I personally. wouldn't use tubes in this system.  I don't want to burn time on tubes just to have my wife watching Frank N Gracie on Netflix while I'm out of town.  I have my second system for that, and you can see it in the virtual setups also.  

Here's a list of amps that support HT bypass.  Good luck and keep us posted.  

Try a Luxman, but 507 as a minimum.

In that pic of the Klipsch speakers, the speakers are too close together and the seating position is way too far away! No chance of that setup offering any real imaging! You are only going to get sound in that room, but not a true highend experience (which might not be your goal?). 

@mtbiker29 I can't seem to figure out how to see your virtual setup. I clicked on your profile, but didn't see it anywhere. And yes I have been referencing that list of Integrated Amps with HT Bypass like crazy the last few days, haha.

@erik_squires Yeah I looked at those along with so many others. They look awesome, but might be a little pricey for me. But I'll keep looking for used ones.

@boostedis Well my goal is to get as good of sound quality as possible with my setup. I can certainly space the speakers slightly wider, although they were pretty similar distance when I auditioned them. I can't really sit any closer than 12ft with the 77" TV and we also want to have floor space of course for kids, etc. At the end of the day I'm just trying to optimize as best as possible in this space. I know it will always sound better in a dedicated room, but I also know I won't go to that room nearly as often as I am already on the couch and just want to listen to some music for 20 minutes or while cooking, etc.

If it were me, I would buy a solid state integrated amp or a tube preamp to pair with the Parasound amp. I would keep the Marantz receiver for home theater.  Might not be true for all of the Focal speakers, but in general you will need more tube watts than is offered in most tube integrated amps to drive Focals properly, due to their impedance curve.  At a minimum, I think you would want the 120 watts of a Rogue Cronus Magnum — but I know Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio sells a LOT of Prima Luna integrated amps paired with Focal speakers, and would strongly argue otherwise. As mentioned above, Prima Luna have HT bypass.  

@dcevans Yea I'll probably stick with the solid state because it'll get used a lot by the girlfriend and it'll drive me nuts thinking of the tube life going down every time she watches bob's burgers, ha. So you think a pre amp might be better than going with an integrated? Just trying to decide which is the better option for me. I'm open to both options.

Depends on what you are looking for and your budget.  If you want HT bypass, get a preamp. If a 3D soundstage is really critical for your listening enjoyment, get a tube preamp. A Prima Luna Evo 200 preamp will give you both but set you back $3400. A Schitt Freya+ tube preamp is very high value at around $900 I think, but doesn’t have HT bypass. Plus you will need to invest in interconnect cable.  If space and/or budget is at a premium or if your wife is pushing for less boxes, get an integrated. I personally like the flexibility of separates in terms of experimentation and tailoring the sound to my liking.  You already have the amp. I have not heard the A23, but know the A21 was designed by John Curl and gets very high marks. Supposedly has a warmer, less resolute but more engaging sound. Should pair nicely with the Focal Aria I think. 

As stated before, I would suggest 2 different systems— Marantz for HT/TV, and then a 2 channel system. Your wife can watch Bob’s Burgers til the cows come home. 

@dcevans But if I get an integrated with HT bypass, when I’m using all of the speakers for a movie or whatever the integrated will still drive the front 2 speakers right? I know when I bypass it will only drive the front 2, but a little clear on what happens when I’m not using bypass.

Also, what do you think about a good integrated like Moon with a built in DAC vs getting something like the Marantz Model 30 and a separate DAC like the Chord Qutest? I’ve been reading that the integrated DACs can be good but never as good as a dedicated. Thanks for all the help.