@ddd1 I got the speakers up on metal stands but they are on the desk. Since I am pretty much against a wall the only way to get them off would be some kind of wall mount which I'd prefer not to do. Eventually when I move ill do this properly more like a mixing desk/studio.
Looking for nearfield passive speakers that are warm and rich
I really like my ATC Scm7s that I use at my desk but I want something warmer, richer more bassy. Something that does well with vocals and jazz.
Budget is $5000. They are being driven by arc ref5se and pass x350.8, dac is denafrips terminator. Thanks.
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@jackd I emailed JMR to ask if their silk in their tweeter is synthetic or natural since i dont buy natural silk for ethical reasons. This was a solid 2 weeks ago I think and still no response. |
A desk is no substitute for heavy speaker stands. I would only keep that budget if you can get them off the desk (beyond the desk). Find where the speakers sound best in the room off the desk on good stands and only then move your desk to where the best sound is. When the speakers are firing toward you with a desk in between, you might also consider treating the desk to dampen reflections. |
Crap website, and I don't even know if they're still in business but I would reach out and inquire. I own a pair of the 1.6 WC and will never part with them. Best bookshelf speakers I've ever owned. If you want detail PLUS warmth...the wool carbon cones are absolutely brilliant. To put in perspective, I also own ProAc Tablette 10s, which are amazing in their own right, but the Source speakers are my go-to's. Fuller, warmer, more relaxed - yet absolutely spot on with details. |
Based on your original post Fyne's not the direction you want to go in. And as to which is the better speaker that's debatable period but not in this situation. Maybe he has more margin in the Fyne and since you haven't moved on the Folia just throwing something else. If he's local just go listen for yourself as the people on this forum don't have to listen to whatever you buy everyday. To me based on my experience it would be an easy choice without even listening but I'm not the one listening in your room. Make the trip and get it over with. If you're in the GTA I can't imagine many speakers you couldn't listen to in person. |
@jackd The dealer offered me a Fyne f500 and said it was brighter but a better speaker than the JMR Folia. I don't think ill go for it but just a datapoint to observe. |
@smodtactical ,No problem. You just put one one each side of the desk, tweeters inside😁 LS3 5As with a sub under the desk. I would elevate them on small stands getting them at ear height. Kef LS50 meta would be my second choice. My desk is towards the back of the media room. It also serves as a work bench. I just listen to the main system. At the desk I am concentrating on other things so music is purely background. All serious listening is done a few feet away in the new Stressless Max recliner that is still hanging out somewhere in Norway. |
@mijostyn This is for a desk setup. |
@sliffy I would still need my amp and pre for my ns5000 I also use for mid field listening. |
@kaitainen Have you heard the Harbeth P3ESR or any JMR speakers? Thanks. |
I listened to all sorts of bookshelf speakers in your price range with essentially the same focus on richness, warmth, bass, and jazz. The best I heard, and eventually bought, was a pair of demo Trenner & Fried ART speakers. Exceptional craftsmanship, with warm and rich sound, plenty of bass for near field listening, and a perfect fit for jazz and vocals. The ARTs are the kind of speaker that transports you to the event, and with your listed gear, you would be in for a real treat. I have used various Cardas cables in my system with the ARTs, and they only added to the realism given that the speakers are wired with Cardas. Hope that helps! |
As long as his gear is SS or a mix you will get a good idea knowing that your gear is slightly to the warmer side of neutral. As the North American distributor always preferred to show them with Blue Circle hybrid gear you combo of ARC and Pass should fit the bill. Since one of your current favorites is three times the cost of the other I would go listen and possibly keep a lot of money in my bank account. In audio cost is not always or many times a determination of quality or sound. Even used I paid a good bit more for the C7ES's than I did for the Bliss Jubilee's and after many hours of comparison the higher cost was not justified to me. Trust your ears and nobody elses.
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@jackd Not sure if he has a show room. He operates out of his house. And wont know how it sounds with my equipment . |
Ya I am craving lots of warmth right now so I am not worried about 'too warm' with my pass labs @bassdude . I think the 30.1 or 30.2 might be too big for my application though which is at a desk, about 3-4 feet away. |
Well... yes... the Legacy Audio Calibre is an incredible speaker. I’m not sure I would consider it to sound particularly "warm" and "rich," nor would I consider the ATC’s to be. Though, few speakers sound as great as the any of the Legacy speakers (Calibre and up in the line), or certainly the ATC’s. If I had my choice... it would be the ATC 100’s and above. But... if you want a speaker that has the "warm, rich" sound you’re after - without a doubt - that would be the Harbeth 30.1’s / 30.2’s. With the Hegel H390 / H590, or Mac MA252 / MA352 - they will sound just like your HD600’s (HD650’s with less bass and more balanced sound)! The caveat is... you must drive them with those amps, or very similar SS or Hybrid amps, or they will not possess the clarity, dynamics and details you may want. I'm not sure how they would perform with the Ref 5SE into the Pass Labs 350.8. I prefer the the preamp in the H590 in combo with the H590 amp and, perhaps, the DAC in that unit to my Ref 5SE into my AR Ref 150SE amp and Schitt Yggdrasil DAC. The Hegel provides a bit greater clarity, dynamics and detail than the AR combo when driving the Harbeths. It is possible your 350.8 may be too warm, or may not control the bass as well as the Harbeths need to provide sufficient clarity and dynamics. It's kind of like the difference between the clarity of the HD650's compared to the clarity of the HD600's - the HD600's just provide greater clarity, dynamics and details than the HD650's. But, if you prefer the warmer, more subdued sound of the HD650's, you may find the Harbeths are just fine with your setup. But... if you’re after a more neutral sound with the ultimate in clarity, dynamics and details - without being strident (a la anything with a BE tweeter) - the ATC’s and the Legacy’s would be it! |
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That would be HARBETH 30.1’s / 30.2’s / 30.3’s! Without any question. With the right amp (those used by Harbeth at shows) - you will have a warm, rich, musical sound, with plenty of resolution, dynamics, clarity, details, and bass (lower mids)! Superb for classical, jazz, country - all things acoustic! Definitely - the speaker that sounds closest to the HD600’s! Less bass than the HD650’s - but, greater clarity - like the HD600’s.
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Okay, these SCM7V3’s are not inherently bright. BUT they can be under certain conditions that would also affect any speaker. The SCM7 V3 speaker is spectrally well balanced and measures very low in distortion. This is a case where experimenting with EQ would be a useful avenue to try, for what it shows you. If rolling off the HF manually does not help, and you can experiment with at what frequency [and above] gives you results, you can find the thing in the room that emphasizes this band. This is how we do it in the studio business, find what (in the room) causes the artifact and fix it. These kind of problems are often an interaction of the speaker with something else. Room acoustics, materials in the room or a unique signal chain can cause such issues. Changing speakers is sometimes equivalent to treating the symptom not the cause. There is something you are sensitive to behind this, the question is what? My vote, knowing a lot about the speaker, is it’s not the speaker but one of these 1) a HF boosted acoustical environment, 2) bright signal chain, 3) bright cables, 4) source material (such as older recordings) that lacks low end and creates the perception of "thin" or bright. These kind of problems are best solved through a process of elimination. Find out what it isn’t, then keep going until you find something that changes your perception. If I was there, I would, in the following order: 1) move the speakers, 2) move your listening position, 3) switch cables, 4) try a different source you know is excellent, (like Fleetwood Mac, Rumours), 5) try a different signal chain (even a cheap one). Usually, such a list of tests will give you information that will lead to a solution. Brad
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@lonemountain Latest, v3. |
Might I ask which era ATC SCM7’s you own that sound too hot on the top end? Older SCM 7s using pre 2000 VIFA tweeters can indeed sound bright. THose older tweeters can bite back and sound harsh. Post 2001 SEAS tweeter versions of SCM 7s are less "harsh" but all eras of these OEM tweeters are ferrofluid cooled. Most 10 year old ferrofluid tweeters have lost their ferrofluid long ago. You might look into restoring this ferrofluid and seeing how this changes the tweeter behavior. ATCs built since the new ATC tweeters were implemented are definitely not overly bright unless the source electronics are. Brad -ATC USA Importer
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@smodtactical |
@lanx0003 Sorry I should have just said richer, fuller. More bass would be nice though and probably that is possible over the SCM7s given they are sealed. I imagine a ported speaker of similar size would possibly have more bass spl and then I could use the nearfields without my subs turned on (but this is not a requirement at all). |
Great recommendations, across the board, above. This does seem like a natural fit for the BBC L3/5 progeny, and their similar, slightly larger siblings depending on your needs and surroundings. Harbeth P3, Graham, Spendor, Stirling (Rogers, Falcon, as well). For Harbeth, you may be better served by the slightly older versus latest XD models (slightly warmer sound, as I understand). There are a few, very reasonably priced used Vienna Acoustics Haydn Grands sets out there. I have long wanted a pair of those or something from JMR. |
How would Harbeth P3 or Folia being suggested so far satisfy your desire in terms of low end if ATC scm 7 does not? Take a look at Legacy Studio HD. According to Stereophile, Legacy gets all traits of P3 but goes much deeper. (rated class B restricted) In fact, look at the whole list of recommendations 2021 by Stereophile and do some homework before soliciting the opinions elsewhere. Also, Totem Mani-2 signature and NHT Sb3 are serious contenders too if you could find a decent pair in used condition. |
At that price I would jump on the Folia's and see what you think. The P3's will set you back at least three times the price. If you haven't you might want to look at the Reynaud page on Bob Neill's Amherst Audio where Bob gives a breakdown and mini review of all of the models in the lineup that he carries or has heard. He's been a Reynaud owner for over 20 years and did many of the first Reynaud reviews in the US. |
@mspot currently using dual PSA V1800 18 inch subs with the ATCs ;) Ya I am interested in the p3esr vs JMR folia. |
The P3ESR is warmer than your SCM7 and outstanding for nearfield, jazz, and vocals that you mentioned. They are also the same size as the SCM7 and can be a direct replacement on your desk. However it has the same amount of bass, and for more you would need to go larger. What are your size constraints? Would you consider a subwoofer? I have excellent results with my P3ESR-XD and REL subwoofer in a nearfield desktop system. You could start by trying a subwoofer with your SCM7s. |
@jackd I am getting an offer of a demo pair of Folia Jubilee for $1200 all in. Tempting.
@noromance I like the idea of just swapping the 6550 to tungsol to see what happens. The prior owner actually preferred tungsol and when I had the unit checked by ARC they took the Tungsol, pocketed it and then put in Sovtek. |
@smodtactical Yeah, the older TS black plates, I believe. There's some good threads on tube rolling ARC preamps. I don't think you need to change your speakers. |
