As I read some of these posts I can't help but wonder why no one is demanding " MORE BASS " Kind of funny the speakers used at these concerts probably go down to only 50 Hz. Seems like everyone on agon wants 24 hz or their system sucks............just asking,,,,,,where is the outrage?????
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Rock bands should be loud. It's not supposed to be mellow. If they play in a bigger arena the sound has to carry to the back. So, if you are way up front it's going to be really loud. Those seats are mostly coveted for that very reason, those people want to get the full affect. I do agree that if it's so loud in the back it hurts your ears, then it is too loud. On live music in general, worse/better? Live music is the true reality of that moment. If it sounds bad that's because in reality it sounded bad that performance that day. If you have a recording of a poor sounding performance it should sound the same, bad, on your stereo if you want it to sound real. Certainly for rock music, most recordings are compressed. You actually get the true dynamics of the music live. Some people don't like that. What i hate live is when the sound engineer doesn't know what he/she is doing and the vocals are too low/high or the guitar is too low/high etc. A good sound engineer can make it sound good for people in the center anyway, even if you are in a poor acoustical environment. A bad one can make it sound bad everywhere in any venue. That's what sound checks are for. Unfortunately some musicians don't know what good live sound is either. |
In short, probably the best live sound I've ever heard. Much more integrated and with the Moody Theater's new PA speaker stack, incredibly transparent and dynamic without any fatiguing sense of being too loud. I've heard many comments stating that "my audio system at home sounds better". Well this was like that except that instead, that audio quality was live with the accompanying scale and dynamics of a live performance. Kudo's to Lyle Lovett's house engineer as well!!! |
Hey everyone
I just wanted to share this with everyone.
I saw one of my most favorite bands, Depeche Mode, on September 6 at the Barclay's Center. In the past I've caught them at MSG or in Philadelphia.
IMHO Depeche Mode's sound at the Barclay's Center was the best I've heard in a very long time. Everything from David Gahan's singing, to Martin L Gore's guitar/keyboard playing and especially Christian Eigner's drumming was loud and clear. I left the venue and my ears weren't ringing at all. At the previous concerts I've been in the past everything was just plain loud. I knew the song lyrics because I had heard them over and over before the concert. This time around with the newer DM songs I wasn't so familiar with I could understand the lyrics with no problem at all during the concert.
I was in upper part of Section 109 at the Barclay's Center. For my first show there I didn't want to be in the nose bleed seats.
I won't be to the Barclay's for another concert for some time but hope to be back again for another concert.
I guess my next test for the Barclay's Center sound will be when Slayer or Metallica come around to the NY area.
Thanks |
So this week I'll have an interesting opportunity to hear Lyle Lovett in the same venue from two different seats but within two days so my audio memory should be fresh. This Tuesday I saw Lyle and his "acoustic" group at the Moody Theater from a front row center seat. Most of what I heard was direct from the stage but there was a series of vocal reinforcement speakers 4 of them aligned across the front of the stage. Tonight I'll hear the same concert from an 8th row center seat and let you all know my experience. By the way, the sound was superb, extremely well balanced and not at all perceived as loud. |
Lenny,
yes, I've lived most of my life here in "Waterloo." |
Hi Toasty,
Yes I do remember unfortunately and you're correct, vastly improved. I've also heard awful performances (sound wise) at the Moody Theatre which was entirely due to whoever was engineering. Tedeschi Truks band's first performance there case in point. I take it you're from Austin or live here currently? |
Lenny, you may know that sound inside Bass used to suck horribly but they closed the place down and re-did it. The sound is much improved. Many thanks to whoever is responsible for this! |
Just heard Steely Dan last week in Austin at Bass Concert hall, a rather vast 5000 set venue. Admittedly, we had outstanding seats (4th row just left of center), but the sound quality was some of the best I've heard in 40+ years of attending live performances. You could hear every nuance of every one of the 11 musicians on stage. I suspect I was hearing more of the stage than the PA, but I heard similar praise from others in attendance who I knew. |
Matjet, It's not lousy sound it's concert sound. If you don't like it don't go. Stay home and listen to your stereo. |
Another factor is that some of the sound reinforcement companies are providing their services at more than one venue at a time and have different teams at different locations. Not every concert will have the "A" team doing the sound. |
I think it really depends on the venue. I recently went to the Bayfront Blues Festival in Duluth (outside) and thought the sound was fine. Especially if you sat more towards the middle. The acoustic tent was very good too. Richard Thompson outside at the MN zoo in June was really good too. Hopefully some aren't complaining because they can actually hear the dynamics in the music at many live shows? Unlike compressed loud cd's with little or no dynamics. |
There can be amazing crystal clear sound. For one, Coldplay has the best rig in the business.
The problem is that many bands rely on local production houses to provide sound and staging, so it can vary greatly by city. |
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I give great credit to the sound people. Some venues they just can't overcome. Others, they can strut their stuff. It's not like being at home with the full frequency and accuracy of your system, but in the right space they can get close. I recently saw Dave Matthews outdoors. I was expecting the worst. Grace Potter opened. Great sound. Full bass. Articulate highs without pain. Great acoustic guitar sounds and voice. A pleasant surprise. It can be done. Then, there was Alison Krauss. Hockey arena. Horrible. I'll never go there again. Great performances deserve great sound. She deserved better. |
I'd like to offer a different perspective; with the understanding that there are exceptions to every rule.
If we put aside audiophile expectations (no way even the best arena sound systems can have the purity and coherence of top audiophile gear) and barring truly horrendous sound, there is much to enjoy in live performances with less than great sound IF THE BAND IS UP TO IT. In other words, the more happening the MUSIC is, the less important the quality of the sound becomes. Consistently good live performances is what separates the great acts from the impostors who rely on recording studio band-aids and multiple takes to sound good. After all, what is the point in attending a live concert when one hears a rendition that is exactly (performance-wise) exactly as on the record; but with inferior sound and instrumental solos almost note for note as on the record? |
Opening acts usually don't sound as good as the headliner. I've long assumed that they basically are not allowed to have stellar sound so as not to compete with the main attraction. |
This past spring Clapton played the Memorial Colusiem here in Jacksonville, FL. I have heard many other concerts there all with very poor acoustic presentations. That night the Wallflowers opened the show and played well, but the sound was nothing to be excited about. I was prepared for Clapton's sound to be just as congested, but with the opening chord was I shocked. The sound was better than any amplified concert I have attended in 20 years. I was blown away by Clapton and his entire band and could hear every nuance of each instrument in a building that I have never before enjoyed the sound in. Obviously he has a crew that knows how to set up a sound system, really cares, and proved it is possible. I think that is going to be the frustrating part now going forward, knowing it is possible. |
At one outdoors concert (Los Lobos in Austin, TX) some years back my wife and I got up to leave because the sound was so bad (and we love that band). When we had made it 2/3 of the way back we noticed that the sound had improved considerably from how it had been near the front. We sat down and finished the show. I'd never had that experience. |
Mapman I saw the Stones that way in Philly at RFK before they tore it down and it was like we were the only people there...amazing. Keith sang "slipping away" my wife's fav and she thought it was a personal tribute! |
all audiophile garbage aside, the police at dodger stadium, when they re-united, sounded horrible. but the opening band, the foo fighters, sounded amazing. |
"But, as you said, you were in the sweet spot--what about the other thousands who were not?"
Don't know. Surely not as good. That's why I was so happy to be able to target and get the sweet spot, 1 section back dead center at ground level. :^)
The speaker columns on each side of the stage were a good 60 foot tall or more I would estimate, so there was definitely a lot of firepower there and the sound quality guys did a fantastic job from my perspective. |
But, as you said, you were in the sweet spot--what about the other thousands who were not? |
I saw Paul McCartney at FedEx field in DC a couple years back and scored seats front and center, right in the audio "sweet spot". It was pretty close to perfection. Demonstrated to me that modern NFL football stadiums can be quite good concert venues, at least from certain seats. I know there is a pretty decent investment made in the A/V aspects of the newer fancier stadiums. Of course the artists gear and crew are a big factor. McCartney did not disapoint. |
As we all know most large venue shows are extravaganzas...not just music, like a broadway play on PED!...LOL!...and by the time you blow through the first 3 songs or so your ears are shot! If you have been around long enough you have dozens of stories just like the ones in this thread...
One of the last big shows I went to was a Springsteen show...not particularly a fan...boss my ass! Anyway, took a large group of clients to Fed X field in DC - all the way up in the skybox no less, thought that might make the decibel level a little less painful....wrong! The only song I really heard and totally enjoyed was his opening number, a tribute to Johnny Cash who had just passed, "I walk the line." Just Bruce and an acoustic guitar - awesome - after that it was what I call "noise bedlam!" Drink up!
Small clubs however can be special and I have seen many acts, both acoustic and electric, you simply cannot reproduce that timbre and live tone in your home. But you can produce engrossing and engaging sound that provides total enjoyment and I get that its not quite like live instruments, but I'm not trying to pull off an illusion that it is! Just want to be take on a magical mystery tour! LOL! |
Pink Floyd and the Grateful Dead have long (since early 70's) been the exception regarding quality of live sound. Those two bands set the standard for what is possible in a large venue. |
Yes, lots of plain out bad venues out there. Some good ones too. Sound crew and specific seats within also make a difference. It can be very hit or miss...and expensive. Bigger problems in the world do exist though I suppose so I don't loose any sleep over it. There's always my rig at home which I have total control over though. If it doesn't sound good there, I have only me to blame. |
I saw Momentary Lapse of Reason tour in '88. That sounded good because of what Pink Floyd deemed as 'quadraphonics'. It works well for them, especially the tunes with helicopters flying in from behind you. |
This topic has been covered before. All I can say from my experiences and perspective, attended hundreds of concerts over the years is that lousy sound appreciably diminishes the enjoyment of the music and most importantly, connection to the performance. Some of the most anticipated concerts I have attended were very disappointing because of lousy sound more notably rock concerts, much less so symphonic and jazz venues. It's really about sound guys that don't have a clue or care in getting the sound right so that the audience can both hear and enjoy the performance. The bands are at fault as well. It is an unforgivable sin of commission to me, spending hard earned money to be so disappointed. |
You've obviously never been to Pickathon |
Foster_9...I was going to mention Pink Floyd Concerts. They have excellent sound in large arenas. Plus they position speakers around the arena for surround sound.
As far as other bands' sound, I agree with the rest of you and I'll only go to a small theater for a concert. |
I've probably been to about 30 > 40 concerts in my life. Some shows were a complete disappointment sound quality wise, others were pretty good given it was a large venue with lots of people.
I saw Robert Cray in a small venue in CT about 3 years ago. The venue held about 500 people. He was incredible. The sound quality was good but it was insanely loud. I use musician ear plugs to reduce loudness but get most of the music quality. Even with the ear plugs it was way too loud.
I emailed the venue manager to offer this concern.
As I get older I want preserve what hearing I have left.
I do not appreciate when it's insanely loud. How can you enjoy music when your ears are ringing and overloaded.
I have found that sitting further back (lawn seats) at out door venues typically is not as loud. So, I look for these shows |
"Cacophonous" I always enjoy learning new words. |
A lot of sound men blew out their ears years ago.
That, and they first work on getting the drums as loud as possible and then do the same with the bass. There's no room left to stack the mid-to-high-range instruments at the top, resulting in a distorted, cacophonous mess. |
It all depends on what you're used to. Most venues, like most systems, have so much distortion I'm surprised anyone can take more than 5 seconds of it. |
77- I had almost the same experience at a TE show earlier this year. They were actually taping the show for PBS. |
Not just larger venues. In a small jazz room, every instrument was miked. Screamingly loud. Trying to keep up with the rockers, I guess. |
It's sad state of affairs for larger venues. I always get a nervous feeling when the sound engineers don't even touch the board controls....usually bad sound. I search out smaller venues such as older theaters or concert halls or some outdoor concerts and often the sound is good to very good. One of my biggest complaints about the larger venues is distortion, too loud, bad mix (the kick drum is not supposed to sound like a bomb going off or the bass like a mush of low frequency). |
Oh boy. So now when you hear people say I want a system that sounds like live music you can respond and say: " just get a crappy system" .
I agree most live venues are played from the bands amp using a mike placed in front of one of their speakers and then out through a pair of 18" (wow) speakers.
What could go wrong????? |
Interplay of several factors. Stadium and other large venues almost never built w acoustics in mind. Sometimes they are acoustically "impossible". Each venue is different w different problems. Some venues have their own sound re-inforcement so the performer is not in control. Some acts don't really care. |
77 - wish i had a dollar for every time i've heard that. What a dumbass reply! Proves the manager is deaf as well. |
Some events are so special, I just suck it up and go, even knowing I'll be disappointed in the sound and the crowd. Less so every year, though (hmm, Bruce Hornsby at Red Rocks? I'd have to see that). I still go to bluegrass festivals, where the performances, sound and vibe are usually outstanding, but I avoid most rock shows now; too loud, crappy sound, croud too obnoxious. It surprises me that so many excellent musicians seem to care so little about their sound. Last year I complained to Tommy Emmanuel's manager that the sound was so loud and distorted I couldn't make out the best parts of his playing. She shrugged and said that nobody else has complained. It's pretty bad when a single acoustic guitar drives you out of the room. Seems to be the state of the art. |
Not only is the sound at most live shows horrific but the people who go to concerts seem to have zero interest in anything but dancing, chatting, texting and the like. Last show I saw was Dylan. I took my kids to see the icon. My kids are all under 15. The shit-heads directly in front of us starting dancing as soon as the man hit the stage. I asked them to please sit and let my kids see the show. They told me to fuck-off. Nice upbringing. Sound stinks, the audience stinks, I'm so done. |
08-01-13: Brf
Outdoor and stadium venues always suck for music.
Most of the time, but not every time. Pink Floyd, Ohio Stadium, Columbus, OH, 1988; A Momentary Lapse of Reason Tour The sound was thunderous, crystal clear, and chilling. It was an incredible outdoor musical event. Definitely great sound. |
I saw the Tedeschi-Trucks band last year on their Revelator tour at the Moody Theatre where Austin City Limits is also taped. This venue is arguably one of the finest in the country and I can attest, having attended numerous concerts there that the sound can, and usually is, excellent to outstanding. That said, the sound for the TT Band was the loudest, most distorted, garbled, painful live concert experience I've ever had. I almost walked out 10 minutes in. There were 11 musicians on that stage including 3 backup singers and a 3 piece horn section, although you couldn't hear any of it. The point is, that it may be either the house engineer (doubtful in this case) or the band's engineer (most likely in this case) that can also have a significant impact on the sound at a live concert regardless of the hall or the house PA. |
Agree OP. I normally only go to smaller venues any more for this reason. Otherwise, really is a waste of time. Even most medium-sized venues sound like crap. Combination of poor acoustics and deaf people running the sound boards. Very frustrating. Argh! |
The venue and genre of music are significant factors. Fans of hip hop,
rap,pop and rock music for example find themselves in venues where
sound quality isn't the priority but rather how loud. Amplified sound via PA
systems usually sounds pretty bad.
I'm a jazz music lover and the clubs and venues I've attended over the
years are nearly without exception wonderful sounding and allow one to
get deeply involved with the music being performed. No PA system and
predominantly unamplified acoustic instruments makes a natural and
beautiful sound. It's really something to hear the full weight, and body of a
tenor saxophone, trumpet or piano, hear/feel the bloom and fat tone of an
acoustic bass. The club I attend frequently these days is intimate and
unamplified. You just hear the full tone and energy of all the instruments
and can completely appreciate the musicians talent and connect
emotionally. This type of listening environment makes an excellent
template for developing an ear for natural/realistic sound. I've found the
same is true regarding most classical music settings as well.
The live music experience for me has been and remains a truly pleasurable
and passionate outing. |
Outdoor and stadium venues always suck for music. |
These type of concerts are social and financial events, not musical ones.
What did you expect? |
The sound at large venues has always sucked. I stopped going to arena shows in the 90's for that reason. However,over the last few years I've decided to try a few for either my favorite bands or for group outings. I was really surprised at how the sound has improved since the bad old days. Fleetwood Mac, in particular, sounded great at Staples several years back and almost as good at the Hollywood Bowl a few months ago. Now, the bar was low, but I'm hearing improvement out there. |
