What’s your budget, and are you looking for new or used?
New speakers for 15*12 room powered by Lamm 1.2s?
Attending the Seattle show this week. Thinking about upgrading my Thiel 7.2 speakers which I have owned for over 15 years. I have a dedicated room. My Thiel's are powered by Lamm 1.2s direct from a PS Audio Directream DAC Mk1. I am separately looking at upgrading the digital sources and potentially adding real to reel to my system. Through room treatments and upgrading the Tubes in my Lamm's I have been able to get a lot of the brightness out of my Thiels but I am still looking for more warmth and definition. I listed to a lot of female vocalist music, acoustic/electric guitar. I am told the Borreson X3, X6 are an incredible value. Any recommendations to consider? Thx
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Probably used - up to 25K - really depends on how much improvement in sound I get going up in price. I had originally bought the Lamms with the intention of pairing them with Wilson Audio speakers. I never got around to that. When I upgraded the tubes in the amps to the Amperex pinched waist the improvement in sound was material. It got rid of quite a bit of the brightness in the Thiels. Rooms treatments improved that even more. Now that I am revisiting I am realizing there are a lot of good options to consider. |
Judging by the music that you like and your preference for a warm presentation I would take a hard look at the new Sonus Faber Serafino. Just to be fair this is not what's in my listening room but I think they would be a very good fit for you. If you're interested in more low end, I'll bet that you can find a used pair of the larger SF Amati second hand in your price range. |
I think your Thiel’s are one of the better speakers out there, despite their age. And, given your speakers are time/phase aligned, Vandersteen would be my first recommendation. Really, if you are thinking of choosing a different speaker, I believe it is you best interests to try to arrange listening time with as many dealers as you can. Some might be able to arrange for loaners. Of course, not everyone lives near a major city, which makes doing that difficult. But, if you can make some time to take a road trip, it would be to your benefit, considering that you are going to be spending a considerable sum of money. Bob |
Giving it some more thought, if I’m you I’d strongly consider doing a trial of one of the excellent tube preamps out there today as you may find that alone could breathe new life into your excellent Thiels. Preamps are critical IME, plus it could be a lot cheaper/easier than changing speakers. Specifically there’s the new Spatial Audio Raven preamp and the Aric Audio Motherload (both offer trial periods I believe) that could be fairly transformative compared to going direct from your DAC. Just another thought and potential way to go. |
Borresons are hard to place just like Raidho's. They need room to come alive. If you can't get 9' between and 3' to 5' behind the speaker, they will not be at their best. If you want something that will be less bright that will be elite, look at Wilson Benesch, Rockport, Marten and Stenheim. I like the WBs best but am heavily biased since it is what I run and I am a dealer. Brian may be at that show or if you can visit him in SoCal, it might be worth the trip. The Discovery 3Zero is more than enough speaker for that small space. Rockport's smallest model, Marten Parkers and I don't know the Stenheim line that well but know the sound will be right for you. Full disclosure, I am a dealer for WB and Raidho, I have no relationship with any of the other brands listed. |
Jeepers. Room size with dialed in treatment and Theil 7.2s. Can I listen to please? On paper a presentation that’s near perfect. Coherent AF. (Bob) put his finger right on it. You might need to decide how much of that perfect timing is critical. Many of the other speakers listed here and the Borgs that you mentioned are mazeballs. They are better then the 7.2s at many things. But not coherency. Make sure you can live with this. For me and my sensitivity, it would be a completely different listening experience. Not better or worse, different. The Wilsons are a good choice. Why did you take them off the short list? Value proposition? |
Some smart people on here. If this were me (and I've owned 5 pairs of Thiels), I would first install a top end tube preamp. My first 2 choices would be the Aric Audio Motherlode XL, and the Don Sachs/Lynn Olson Raven preamp (built and sold by Spatial Audio). I happen to own the Aric Audio Motherlode XL. I'd also throw in the Supratek Cabernet or Cabernet DHT, Backert Labs Rhumba Extreme 1.4, and BAT VK-80. |
Really appreciate all the great info here. @mopsauce life just got in the way of doing enough research to make a move to something else in the speaker department. If you don't live in a major metro it takes some work to view the options available, hence the trip to Seattle. I am intrigued by the pre-amp move. Any thoughts on the Lamm 2.1 pre-amp vs the other tube options you are suggesting? The lamm pre-amp is highly rated but I believe the impact of the tube may be less do to where in the chain it is included. The difference in sound I experienced in changing from stock tubes on the lamm 1.2s to Amperex 6922 Pinch Waists was astounding. I am also surprised by how well the Thiel 7.2s do in my limited space given their size. They are not rear ported which helps. My cables are Kimber Select 3038 speaker cables and Kimber select 1130 interconnects. (Think they are 1130s - I am traveling) |
I suggest you upgrade your DAC before you sacrifice the Thiels. The 7.2 are good speakers and I have never heard them sound too bright. The Lamm is an excellent amp (my subjective opinion) and I’ve never heard it sound harsh / bright either... Why not audition a few DACs (for example, Ideon Audio are very dynamic w/out being strident, Benchmark is good too, as are many others). The Lamm pre is excellent, should you wish to add a pre
Regards |
Just purchased the Lamm 2.1 pre-amp used to add to the chain. So impressed with my 1.2 monoblocks I could not resist adding the same brand. Will give me the option of adding tape. Hoping this adds some warmth. I didn't see anything in my price range at Seattle show that really impressed me in speakers. No Wilson's at show. Borreson only had 225K and 35K speakers. YG setup was terrible. I am now considering adding a Meitner MA3 DAC as part of the chain. Listened to Focals - different/better? |